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Public meeting access

wrobert avatar
Beach Fanatic
8,280 views
I found this situation to be more disturbing than anything. I attend more governmental meetings than your average person and I have never came across a situation such as this is the past.


From WZEP news.

Some Who Attended the TDC Meeting Were Locked Out

As the Walton County TDC held a public workshop to take input on the Wayfinder sign program Wednesday evening, participants were asked to register their names at the door. Two TDC staff members stood at the door and told those entering they needed to sign in. Later, as the room filled, the doors were locked from outside access and a number of people were not allowed into the meeting room. Even after the crown thinned, the doors remained locked from the outside. Some attendees outside the meeting room complained about not being given access and about being told they must sign in. Both of these are possible violations of the Sunshine Law.

Florida has a broad set of laws governing the public's access to government meetings. This includes, government meetings with elected officials as well as most meetings of committees and boards doing business for a government or groups and organizations who make decisions and recommendations instead of a government body. A private company or group working to operate a public hospital or park facility would fall under the Sunshine Laws. The laws also govern the rights of the public to request records and to have access to their government.

Section 286.011, F.S., requires that meetings of public boards or commissions be "open
to the public at all times." For meetings where a large turnout of the public is expected, public boards and commissions should take reasonable steps to ensure that the facilities where the meeting will be held will accommodate the anticipated turnout. Meetings held at a facility which can accommodate only a small number of the public attending, when a large public turnout can
reasonably be expected, may violate the public access requirement by unreasonably restricting access to the meeting.

According to the First Amendment Foundation, there are four (4) simple requirements:
1. Meetings of boards or commissions must be open to the public.
2. Reasonable notice of such meetings must be given.
3. Minutes of meetings must be taken.
4. Venue must be accessible.

The FAF says a public agency cannot hold a meeting at any facility which discriminates based on age, race, etc., nor can a public agency unreasonably restrict public access. It must hold meetings in an accessible facility of sufficient size so as to accommodate the anticipated turnout.

Accessibility includes not having to register your attendance with the government. As this reporter entered the meeting area, two TDC staff members were at the door. One told me she needed me to sign in to attend the meeting. When told that I did not wish to register my name, she said it was for her minutes record. When told that registering a name was not a requirement, the employee grimaced as I passed. Checking with other attendees, apparently all who entered during the first part of the meeting were told they must sign in.

As the meeting progressed most seats were filled and some people were standing in the back of the room. Apparently the door outside the small lobby was locked and people outside reported being told they could not enter. It is unconfirmed who locked the exterior door, but several people said it was a TDC Board member. No fire marshal was visible and no announcement was made indicating there was a problem with not enough room or that the room was at capacity.

Attendees standing in the outside parking lot said they were denied access to the meeting due to the door being locked. This reporter attempted to open the door and gain reentry but found it locked. Eventually a TDC staff person answered a knock and asked if the people outside the door wanted in. I indicated the door needs to stay open and the staff person said her director said it should be closed. I asked the staff person if I wanted in later, and knocked, would the door be opened. She would not agree that it would. After asking the question repeatedly, a second staff person said the door would be opened. The door was shut and remained locked. Eventually, as the meeting came to a close, a county staff person, not a TDC employee, informed the staff they needed to keep the door open and blocked it from being completely closed with an urn.

Edited

Replies

42
Beach Comber
#27
No dis intended to you doxiegirl, but the excuse is weak.
I think an accident is when you trip and fall. Locking doors and taking names in a public meeting sounds more like a misguided attempt at crowd control by a government entity that is not aware of the law or doesn't think they have to follow it..:idontno:
Notice I said Chris Mitchell said it. I did not say I agreed with it.

Doxiegirl
Alicia Leonard avatar
SoWal Insider
#28
Notice I said Chris Mitchell said it. I did not say I agreed with it.

Doxiegirl

I know :wave: I just didn't want you to take my post the wrong way because you posted the info. ummmmmm does that make sense:blink::idontno:

Sorry if I offended in any way because that was what I was trying not to do. :blush:Thanks for the info:wave:
RebelRider avatar
Beach Lover
#29
tlotrehefasfra

The name of the complaintant is in this word jumble.

What difference does it make ?

But I might tell you how to unjumble the letters.
Smiling JOe avatar
SoWal Expert
#30
Theo was already quoted in the newspaper. What's up with the secret spy stuff?
chrisv avatar
Beach Fanatic
#31
Bonnie was on Ch 7, too, illustrating the "door locking" incident. Will probably be on at 10 also. Don't know if anything on 13 on this point or not. Wonder why and who called the Sheriff? Guess someone just wanted to beat up on the public a little more.:whack:

Apparently the deputy was called when the folks inside the meeting didn't want to be forced to 'dress the pig up." The TDC went into this 'workshop' with the full intention of completely dismissing any attempt by the Scenic Pride Initiative to forward the plan to remove the signs altogether. When it became obvious that the public wouldn't stand for it, someone made a poor decision to call WCSO.

Requiring attendees to sign in, locking out members of the public and the press, and calling for LEO presence is going too far. I believe it is time for a complaint to be filed for a state investigation into possible violations of Florida Open Meetings laws.
Alicia Leonard avatar
SoWal Insider
#32
Theo was already quoted in the newspaper. What's up with the secret spy stuff?

:floor::floor::floor::floor:
Alicia Leonard avatar
SoWal Insider
#33
Apparently the deputy was called when the folks inside the meeting didn't want to be forced to 'dress the pig up." The TDC went into this 'workshop' with the full intention of completely dismissing any attempt by the Scenic Pride Initiative to forward the plan to remove the signs altogether. When it became obvious that the public wouldn't stand for it, someone made a poor decision to call WCSO.

Requiring attendees to sign in, locking out members of the public and the press, and calling for LEO presence is going too far. I believe it is time for a complaint to be filed for a state investigation into possible violations of Florida Open Meetings laws.

OMG, Thanks Chrisv for keeping me in the loop. :wave:
I missed part of that somewhere.:idontno:
Smiling JOe avatar
SoWal Expert
#34
When did the Sheriff's Deputy show up? I totally missed that part. I did, however, here at least two different occasions of someone banging on the exterior door, hoping to gain access to the meeting.
Beach Fanatic
#35
Apparently someone from TDC called; deputy came, looked around and did not see a problem and left. Couldn't get in because the door was locked!

Edited

Smiling JOe avatar
SoWal Expert
#36
probably thought the building was empty, with the 100+ cars in the parking lot.
Alicia Leonard avatar
SoWal Insider
#37
Apparently someone from TDC called; deputy came, looked around and did not see a problem and left. Couldn't get in because the door was locked!

Isn't it a fire hazard to lock that many people in a room together?
Beach Fanatic
#38
Isn't it a fire hazard to lock that many people in a room together?

It sure was last night!:funn:
Alicia Leonard avatar
SoWal Insider
#39
It sure was last night!:funn:
:floor::floor::floor:
Smiling JOe avatar
SoWal Expert
#40
Isn't it a fire hazard to lock that many people in a room together?

Yes, but only if the doors are locked, preventing exit. Has nothing to do with locking the doors, preventing entry. I am fairly certain that the doors are like the other exterior doors at the Library, with the push bar to unlock. The reason why they are in the locked position has nothing to do with the TDC, but rather, it is because the Library staff unlocks the room for the people using it, but they don't give out the special keys to unlock the doors, so that they automatically lock upon our exit of the facilities. The library doesn't even unlock both doors at the main entry during hours. They unlock only the right door if you are entering the building. I found out the hard way too many times, when trying to leave without pushing the bar. However, if a meeting is to remain open, they could easily staff someone to hold the doors, or prop it open, although technically, propping it open could be a fire hazard if it is done from the interior side of the door, rather than the exterior side.
Alicia Leonard avatar
SoWal Insider
#41
Yes, but only if the doors are locked, preventing exit. Has nothing to do with locking the doors, preventing entry. I am fairly certain that the doors are like the other exterior doors at the Library, with the push bar to unlock. The reason why they are in the locked position has nothing to do with the TDC, but rather, it is because the Library staff unlocks the room for the people using it, but they don't give out the special keys to unlock the doors, so that they automatically lock upon our exit of the facilities. The library doesn't even unlock both doors at the main entry during hours. They unlock only the right door if you are entering the building. I found out the hard way too many times, when trying to leave without pushing the bar. However, if a meeting is to remain open, they could easily staff someone to hold the doors, or prop it open, although technically, propping it open could be a fire hazard if it is done from the interior side of the door, rather than the exterior side.

I had wondered because I thought in the original report someone said they couldn't find the key and maybe it was locked both way:idontno:
chrisv avatar
Beach Fanatic
#42
Yes, but only if the doors are locked, preventing exit. Has nothing to do with locking the doors, preventing entry. I am fairly certain that the doors are like the other exterior doors at the Library, with the push bar to unlock. The reason why they are in the locked position has nothing to do with the TDC, but rather, it is because the Library staff unlocks the room for the people using it, but they don't give out the special keys to unlock the doors, so that they automatically lock upon our exit of the facilities. The library doesn't even unlock both doors at the main entry during hours. They unlock only the right door if you are entering the building. I found out the hard way too many times, when trying to leave without pushing the bar. However, if a meeting is to remain open, they could easily staff someone to hold the doors, or prop it open, although technically, propping it open could be a fire hazard if it is done from the interior side of the door, rather than the exterior side.

I wonder if a preschooler could open those locked doors from inside. Would he/she have the strength to push the bar in and then push the heavy door while still holding the bar? Locking the doors creates a fire hazard, regardless of who is locked inside. It also keeps those pesky members of the public out of our workshop.

Edited

Smiling JOe avatar
SoWal Expert
#43
Don't misunderstand my statement. I hate that both of the doors at the main entry are not unlocked every day. I think if the library peeps are going to allow use of the room in the back, they need to issue the Allan-wrench keys to unlock the doors, and lock them back when they are done. I can also see potential issues if the temperature outside that meeting room was 97F degrees, with the doors open.

ChrisV, you bring up an excellent point about the doors maybe not being operable for everyone. This would include people with some physical handicaps. You will probably remember those handicapped doors at the library at UGA, which allowed anyone to approach the door, press a button, and wait a moment, while the door automatically opened. I am surprised that something like that isn't required on all doors to public buildings. Some commercial doors are so heavy that a grown adult has to lean into them to push them open.

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