Redfish Village Beach Access

I just love this section of Gabriels article. I have tried to say it and I guess I could not say it like Gabriel did. Now KT does he have typos in his story? I think it is his job to deliver the facts. Seems like if Brad Zeitlin replied than it would be public record and should be obtainable. Do you have the letter for this reporter? You can email it to him (go ahead click on it or go to the article and click on it there) to set the record straight and show him who runs the county down here. Like I have said in the past get it in writing with these folks, tape record the message hire a stenographer to capture everything they say because you can trust me KT they will, BEEP! BEEP! BEEP! THEY WILL run over you..

I have been spending a lot of time reading up on the Walton County, Code of Ordinance and seems like RFV might have a problem still. Seems that they might need more space based on the commercial aspect of this PrivateBA. Unless I am reading it wrong, and of course it is all about how you twist up this thing, they need a 250 foot buffer around this PrivateBA development because it is within a residential preservation designated NPA. Unless I am reading it wrong the community has every right to deny this project and the county commissioner is suppose to listen to the community on this one. Now I am not sure if i read it correctly but I am sure I will be slammed for bringing it up.

Thanks SoWallSally

Edroedrog I will find out whether the other letter we saw which the reporter must not have seen is in the public record because if it is and the reporter didn't refer to it then you can have your fun with the article but it is wrong and looks like Gabriel wrote was he was told by somebody. I was at the Planning Commission and most of what Gabriel says in the article is wrong. Frankly though it is not my problem and I will let the people at Redfish deal with that. If they tell me then I will tell you. It is easy to see though that the last Walton Sun article on this issue painted Redfish in a nice light and this one seems to be a one-sided interview with Albert Serrero who it sounds like owns two condos near the lot.

Smiling Joe do you believe you can take everything you read even if it is in a newspaper to validate Edroedrog?

Edroedrog what I do care about is the access at 260 Blue Mountain. You asked me to prove you wrong once about the 20% issue and it is clear that you were wrong. Where you again are posting a lie is when you say "they need a 250 foot buffer around this PrivateBA development because it is within a residential preservation designated NPA. ". That is another lie you are posting. The lot on the east side south of my house is residential preservation. The lot on the west side is INFILL and the lot to the east of that is VMU and lot to the west of them is INFILL. Just look at the County website. There now you are wrong again and flat out lied in your last post.

How have these people (who you say you like by the way) "run all over you?"

...
I have been spending a lot of time reading up on the Walton County, Code of Ordinance and seems like RFV might have a problem still. Seems that they might need more space based on the commercial aspect of this PrivateBA. Unless I am reading it wrong, and of course it is all about how you twist up this thing, they need a 250 foot buffer around this PrivateBA development because it is within a residential preservation designated NPA. Unless I am reading it wrong we the community have every right to deny this project and the county commissioner is suppose to listen to the community on this one. Now I am not sure if i read it correctly but I am sure I will be slammed for bringing it up.

Thanks SoWallSally

Edroedrog, will you cite the passage in the County Code of Ordinances which leads you to your conclusion?

Smiling Joe do you believe you can take everything you read even if it is in a newspaper to validate Edroedrog?

look at my signature line below, then you will know the answer. Can I flip this smilie upside down? :roll: That quote should be slightly adjusted, to have the following language attached to the end, "and even some of those are not accurate."

All bold text are from Kevin Thompson to Edroedrog:

"Edroedrog I will find out whether the other letter we saw which the reporter must not have seen is in the public record because if it is and the reporter didn't refer to it then you can have your fun with the article but it is wrong and looks like Gabriel wrote was he was told by somebody."
You have mentioned this letter before but nobody I know has seen it. Let's give you the benefit of the doubt here. Does that mean the first letters written by the county never existed? Does that mean when the county told RFV to quit advertising the private beach access in those letters as part of their development on bathroom lot #1, that a reasonable person could not assume that RFV was denied (at least verbally) by county on bathroom lot #1? RFV, more than one, and emphatically so, stated that they were never denied approval on bathroom lot #1. They insist they simply purchased the bathroom lot #2 for twice the price (5+ million) of bathroom lot #1 simply because they felt "it would provided a better experience for the owners". Right.

"I was at the Planning Commission and most of what Gabriel says in the article is wrong. Frankly though it is not my problem and I will let the people at Redfish deal with that. If they tell me then I will tell you. It is easy to see though that the last Walton Sun article on this issue painted Redfish in a nice light and this one seems to be a one-sided interview with Albert Serrero who it sounds like owns two condos near the lot. "
One sided interview you say? Now you slam anyone, including the reporter, when things don't go your way. Your statements here are pathetic, especially the part where you state "most of what Gabriel says in the article is wrong". Geeeze, get a grip.

"Nice light", bad light....could this possibly be fair and balanced? Doesn't matter. I found MOST, if not all, of Gabriel's articles to be factual. He painted no slant...just reported the other side.

Two or three quotes does not a "one-sided interview" make.

"Smiling Joe do you believe you can take everything you read even if it is in a newspaper to validate Edroedrog?"
Right now, Gabriel's article seems to be a lot more credible than your panicky statements you're throwing around here. (sorry SJ, I see this question is intended for you, not me, but I couldn't resist.)

"Edroedrog what I do care about is the access at 260 Blue Mountain. You asked me to prove you wrong once about the 20% issue and it is clear that you were wrong. "
You know that he has admitted that he was wrong about that particular unrelated "20%" fact already. It doesn't make everything else wrong.

"Where you again are posting a lie is when you say "they need a 250 foot buffer around this PrivateBA development because it is within a residential preservation designated NPA. ". That is another lie you are posting. The lot on the east side south of my house is residential preservation. The lot on the west side is INFILL and the lot to the east of that is VMU and lot to the west of them is INFILL. Just look at the County website. There now you are wrong again and flat out lied in your last post."
Just more panic on your part. I haven't a clue what you're saying here regarding the lots around "your" house. What's your point (if you have one)?

You keep using the word "lie" as in not telling the truth. A simple search on the municipal code website yields the following:

"e. Compatibility with Existing Neighborhoods: The compatibility of new development with existing adjacent neighborhoods shall be considered as part of the review of any proposal for development within the NPA district. To accomplish this, all individual project plans and Neighborhood Plans shall establish a specific combination and quantity of uses which relate to existing adjacent conditions and in effect, preserve or enhance the desirable aspects of existing development in the adjacent areas and ensure compatible new development. The specific criteria which shall be used to by an applicant, where applicable, establish a presumption of compatibility are as follows:

(i) No new commercial or workplace uses shall be established within a 250-foot buffer around areas which meet the definition of Residential Preservation Areas within the NPA district. This specific buffer does not apply to areas designated as Coastal Center, Mixed Use Center, Light Industrial Center or Court Ordered Overlay District on the FLUM."

Certainly seems to me that that Edroedrog is referring to factual code here. Are you saying his interpretation is wrong? That's a far cry from him being a "liar" as you continually called him.


"How have these people (who you say you like by the way) "run all over you?""
One of ways you're trying to do now (at a minimum).... spinning a bunch of crap and trying to sell it as so. They tried to run over Blue Mountain Beach Subdivision on bathroom lot #1 and now are attempting the same on bathroom lot #2.

Vagrant it looks to me that you are the one who is in a panic. Look at your post and think about who is pathetic. I will answer your questions later meet me on the beach right now since it is such a pretty day if you want to oh I forgot you don't live here. You must be Albert and I hurt your feelings by letting you know that the article was incorrect? And did you really say "geeeze get a grip"?

Thanks BMBV. I was not planning on working this weekend but KT challenged me and was working on a response but thanks to you I can stop. I could not have said it any better.

KT-I used the word MIGHT in my post. Do I need to define MIGHT for you? I have people with their tape measure out now. We are going to force the county to look at this from a LEGAL prospective. Of course the Walton County, Code of Ordinance (Click on it everyone and read) can not be changed by the RFV. KT seems like you had a lot to do with lot 1 (Legal Description is Lot 7, Block 13, Blue Mountain Beach Subdivision) not being approved. Just how is that? What influence would/could you possibly have on this? You are killing me with you mighty MACHO words(BTW I DO NOT WANT AN ANSWER FROM YOU AS I ALREADY KNOW)

KT-I have said repeatedly that I do like the folks at Hard2Sell and have always stated that I did not like the way they marketed this development. As the journalist said Gabriel (go ahead click on this and email him and tell him he is wrong) they were marketing something they did not even have and THAT IS A FACT.

KT-Here is another fact about the relationship between RFV and H2O. http://www.bizjournals.com/memphis/s...tml?from_rss=1 (
The area in northwest Florida that has investors squealing is located along the Gulf Coast from Orange Beach, Ala., eastward to Carrabelle, Fla., says Kevin Adams, CB Richard Ellis Memphis CEO. Adams has a hand in two companies operating in the region, Local Global Investments and H2O Properties.
LGI invests in real estate acquisitions or developments and has several projects under way in Florida, including the $110 million Redfish Village in Blue Mountain. LGI has about $600 million invested in projects in the Florida Panhandle. H2O Properties is a brokerage services firm, led by Mike Ratcliff.) This is the same article posted in the past. I will be looking hard, and I mean hard for LGIs prospectus.. Again this does not matter and I am tired of pointing this out to you. It might be more than 20% KT but it is something.(AS I HAVE BEEN TOLD THIS DOES NOT MATTER)

Gentlemen,

Enough is enough.

Bmbv, as requested, i have chilled out and backed off this thread a little. it looks like you took your request for others to relax as an open door to ramp up your delivery.

the issue is still a hot topic and needs continued discussion, but the dripping sarcasm and innuendo are still quite evident. could we bring this back to straight shooting? it might help the desired result if all were open and honest with any real facts, or documents they have(access to).

Vagrant it looks to me that you are the one who is in a panic. Look at your post and think about who is pathetic. I will answer your questions later meet me on the beach right now since it is such a pretty day if you want to oh I forgot you don't live here. You must be Albert and I hurt your feelings by letting you know that the article was incorrect? And did you really say "geeeze get a grip"?

Great response!?

Just damn.

I'm back to ignoring you for a few days.

Bmbv, as requested, i have chilled out and backed off this thread a little. it looks like you took your request for others to relax as an open door to ramp up your delivery.

Oh please! You have this KT character who is now slamming a Walton Sun reporter for putting more information out there, yet you have nothing to say about that? You have this KT character calling people liars yet you have nothing to say about that either? I personally feel you don't give a damn about any of this, other than seeing your own name here on this thread and your chance to call me down.

the issue is still a hot topic and needs continued discussion, but the dripping sarcasm and innuendo are still quite evident. could we bring this back to straight shooting? it might help the desired result if all were open and honest with any real facts, or documents they have(access to).

You're right, it's a hot topic. BTW, I called his statements pathetic, not him.

KT is basically calling Gabriel a liar, as well as edroedrog with his "innuendo" and I quote, "most of what Gabriel says in the article is wrong".

John R: it seems to me that if you're going to criticize me, then at least you should be fair and spread it around to others.

Remember the [ame="http://www.sowal.com/bb/showthread.php?t=4607"]retaining wall article (click here) [/ame]written by Gannett? I had some real issues with that article. I was challenged as to why I felt that way. I just didn't blurt out a "KT" type of response. I actually took the time to address each and every issue in the article.

See my post [ame="http://www.sowal.com/bb/showpost.php?p=91490&postcount=36"]click here[/ame].

Can't KT humor us with something remotely resembling this rather saying "most of what Gabriel says in the article is wrong"?

The latest news article is the point of this thread.

KT's denial of it's sincerity and authenticity bugs me (and it should you).

KT should spend some time dissecting the article rather than inferring that Gabriel Tynes' presented mostly non-factual information.

KT suggests one must live here to be able to fight the battle. Full time? Part time? I never told him whether or not I lived here, by the way. Smiling JOe correctly pointed out to KT that it shouldn't matter either way. But KT just seems to ignore that concept in his many attempts to discredit me and others.

KT is really just noise....irritating though. Maybe he takes comfort in that.

Oh my gosh I go to the beach for less than an hour and you can't wait? Who is in a panic? Who is pages of "noise"? In the words of Smiling Joe "I am not your puppet". I think going to the beach with my grandson is more important than immediately answering your post. I will get back to you and your little brother Edroe like I said and I am trying to get the information to answer your questions.

... In the words of Smiling Joe "I am not your puppet". ...

:roll:

...Bmbv, as requested, i have chilled out and backed off this thread a little. it looks like you took your request for others to relax as an open door to ramp up your delivery...

Oh please! You have this KT character who is now slamming a Walton Sun reporter for putting more information out there, yet you have nothing to say about that? You have this KT character calling people liars yet you have nothing to say about that either? I personally feel you don't give a damn about any of this, other than seeing your own name here on this thread and your chance to call me down.

wow, thanks for setting me straight. the anger here seems to be surpassing the reason for the thread. i didn't call you down, i was making an observation. and, by now my giving a damn has indeed worn out from reading all the BMB infighting rhetoric. i really couldn't give a sh*t about who thinks they're right over there anymore, and i don't want to waste my effort when you guys seem to be doing such a good job of bashing each other.

You're right, it's a hot topic. BTW, I called his statements pathetic, not him.

KT is basically calling Gabriel a liar, as well as edroedrog with his "innuendo" and I quote, "most of what Gabriel says in the article is wrong".

John R: it seems to me that if you're going to criticize me, then at least you should be fair and spread it around to others.

sorry, i should have been a liitle more succinct in moving from addressing you to addressing everyone, sorry.

...the issue is still a hot topic and needs continued discussion, but the dripping sarcasm and innuendo are still quite evident. could we bring this back to straight shooting? it might help the desired result if all were open and honest with any real facts, or documents they have(access to)...

i was advocating combining your efforts, but that seems to be lost on you.
my statement was not based on your last post, it was based on on all the recent activity since you asked us to calm down.

See my post(s)...really....just noise....

carry on.

You keep using the word "lie" as in not telling the truth. A simple search on the municipal code website yields the following:

"e. Compatibility with Existing Neighborhoods: The compatibility of new development with existing adjacent neighborhoods shall be considered as part of the review of any proposal for development within the NPA district. To accomplish this, all individual project plans and Neighborhood Plans shall establish a specific combination and quantity of uses which relate to existing adjacent conditions and in effect, preserve or enhance the desirable aspects of existing development in the adjacent areas and ensure compatible new development. The specific criteria which shall be used to by an applicant, where applicable, establish a presumption of compatibility are as follows:

(i) No new commercial or workplace uses shall be established within a 250-foot buffer around areas which meet the definition of Residential Preservation Areas within the NPA district. This specific buffer does not apply to areas designated as Coastal Center, Mixed Use Center, Light Industrial Center or Court Ordered Overlay District on the FLUM."

Certainly seems to me that that Edroedrog is referring to factual code here. Are you saying his interpretation is wrong? That's a far cry from him being a "liar" as you continually called him.

If the above is true for Walton County, Code of Ordinance than the file I have attached shows all zoning for all land surrounding this PrivateBA at 260 Blue Mountain Road. Looks like a lot of land zoned RP around this PrivateBA.

You know what is funny to me is that the only land zoned infil are these two lots. We need to find out when the zoning was changed on these lots. Has this happened over the past year or what because this map looks funny with just two infil lots next to each other and the other lot is for sale too? HMMMMM.

KT-This Map came from you Walton County?s website.


I would encourage everyone to go look at these maps. http://maps.geocortex.net/imf-5.1.002/sites/walton/jsp/launch.jsp

Edroedrog and Vagrant I am waiting on a fax of the letter from another person who was involved in our fight against lot 1 she thinks she has it in a file and once I have it I will type as much of it as I can so you can read it. And yes Vagrant this letter which should be public record (if it is not there anymore this could be another conspiracy theory opportunity for you just on the other side) voids the letter sent by the County to Redfish which was cited in the article today. That is just one reason the article is wrong.

The other question I have for both of you is are you saying that you are relying on the rule of "(i) No new commercial or workplace uses shall be established within a 250-foot buffer around areas.."? Were you under the impression that they had presented this as a commercial or workplace use because that is not my understanding from being in the meeting.

Edroedrog and Vagrant I am waiting on a fax of the letter from another person who was involved in our fight against lot 1 she thinks she has it in a file and once I have it I will type as much of it as I can so you can read it. And yes Vagrant this letter which should be public record (if it is not there anymore this could be another conspiracy theory opportunity for you just on the other side) voids the letter sent by the County to Redfish which was cited in the article today. That is just one reason the article is wrong.

The other question I have for both of you is are you saying that you are relying on the rule of "(i) No new commercial or workplace uses shall be established within a 250-foot buffer around areas.."? Were you under the impression that they had presented this as a commercial or workplace use because that is not my understanding from being in the meeting.

Look below KT I found the facts about commercial property in Florida. I am going to leave this one up to you. Lets see what kind of spin local Government puts on this. You ask me to post the facts. Here they are.

http://dor.myflorida.com/dor/property/definitions.html. Scan down the page you will find it.

"Real estate used and owned as a homestead" means real property to the extent provided in s. 6(a), Art. VII of the State Constitution, but less any portion thereof used for commercial purposes, with the title of such property being recorded in the official records of the county in which the property is located. Property rented for more than 6 months is presumed to be used for commercial purposes.

So are you telling me that the rental agent that RFV has signed up for is not going to rent these condos. Because if you are than you know something that we all do not know. Ask RFV who is going to be the Rental Agent for these properties.

Walton County, Code of Ordinance (I am referenceing this because it has the commercial piece in it that KT is confused about) is what the Little Man would have to use if they wanted to do something with their property and is what I am suppose to go by too.

I am going to list the again so everyone can keep up. Get our your rulers neighbors because it looks to me that this in fil is within 250' of several Residential Preservation Areas within the NPA district.

"e. Compatibility with Existing Neighborhoods: The compatibility of new development with existing adjacent neighborhoods shall be considered as part of the review of any proposal for development within the NPA district. To accomplish this, all individual project plans and Neighborhood Plans shall establish a specific combination and quantity of uses which relate to existing adjacent conditions and in effect, preserve or enhance the desirable aspects of existing development in the adjacent areas and ensure compatible new development. The specific criteria which shall be used to by an applicant, where applicable, establish a presumption of compatibility are as follows:

(i) No new commercial or workplace uses shall be established within a 250-foot buffer around areas which meet the definition of Residential Preservation Areas within the NPA district. This specific buffer does not apply to areas designated as Coastal Center, Mixed Use Center, Light Industrial Center or Court Ordered Overlay District on the FLUM."

KT-You saw all the brown on that fact filled map. If I recall the map has a lot of Residential Preservation Areas on it.

Everyone has asked me to stick to the issue and I have. I have found all this information on FL Dept Rev and State of Florida websites.

Eddog
Have you ever considered using your obvious talent with researching the laws of FL and Walton Co to something other than beating a dead horse?

Edroedrog I don't know whether they are going to rent the condos or not I would guess that is up to the owners and you can call your good friends at the Redfish to find out. The issue that keeps eluding you is whether 260 Blue Mountain is being submitted for approval as a commercial property. You can post this information over and over but it is just more of your distortion of the facts.

Edroedrog I don't know whether they are going to rent the condos or not I would guess that is up to the owners and you can call your good friends at the Redfish to find out. The issue that keeps eluding you is whether 260 Blue Mountain is being submitted for approval as a commercial property. You can post this information over and over but it is just more of your distortion of the facts.

If the facts about zoning are incorrect than once again I challenge you to prove me wrong. You all have challenged me to find the facts and now this is the best you can do is try to discredit the things that I do find. I even point them out give you a chance to go read it for yourself. I have not said one thing on this board that has not been backed up with solid documentation(except the 20% thing and I did provide a bizjournal with the info BTW I am searching even harder for the prospectus).


260 Blue Mountain Rd will be considered commercial according to http://dor.myflorida.com/dor/property/definitions.html website. These are the facts and it is going to be commercial by the states very on definition from the Florida Property Tax Definitions on myflorida.com.

If the facts about zoning are incorrect than once again I challenge you to prove me wrong. You all have challenged me to find the facts and now this is the best you can do is try to discredit the things that I do find. I even point them out give you a chance to go read it for yourself. I have not said one thing on this board that has not been backed up with solid documentation(except the 20% thing and I did provide a bizjournal with the info BTW I am searching even harder for the prospectus).


260 Blue Mountain Rd will be considered commercial according to http://dor.myflorida.com/dor/property/definitions.html website. These are the facts and it is going to be commercial by the states very on definition from the Florida Property Tax Definitions on myflorida.com.

I am starting to worry about you. The pressure of whatever is driving you to do this since you don't live here, don't own property in Blue Mountain and you like these guys must be making you crazy. Tell us what it is? Oh yea, it's that you don't "want your kid's sifting through the people on the beach" or was it that you "don't want Redfish to bleep bleep run over people"?

What kind of prospectus are you talking about? I don't know of any public companies you have mentioned so what are you talking about? You conjure up these images of you running around your neighborhood saying "do you have the prospectus have you seen the prospectus"? Keep looking harder and let us know when you find it. You have constantly acted like somebody has lied about something or is tricking somebody but I am not sure you have said one thing that anybody actually did wrong.

On the land code about commercial property it is a good thing you are on the case because your analysis must be right and trump everybody who looked at this besides you. Do you really think you can go to the Department of Revenue site, look at a definition for tax purposes for what defines commercial according to renting terms and apply that to land use code? Ask yourself a simple question is there anything that would keep me from renting my house in Blue Mountain for more than 6 months? No nothing. Would that mean that that the DOR would view it as commercial for their purpose? Probably. Does it mean that the County would stop me because I am currently on a Residential Preservation lot? No.

Not to mention that nobody is renting anything on 260 Blue Mountain. Just because you and Vagrant draw the link between their access and the Redfish site doesn't make it so.

I could explain more but hopefully you can take it from here and stop misleading people.

I have not said one thing on this board that has not been backed up with solid documentation(except the 20% thing and I did provide a bizjournal ...).

maybe they shredded their 20% worth of stock. btw, i got my key prototype today. it has a rendering of the proposed access flanked by the adjacent properties so people know where to go, with a map on the back under the magnetic strip. it's quite nicely done.

Johnr I am assuming you are being funny about them sending out a key.

I could explain more but hopefully you can take it from here and stop misleading people.

Misleading people you must be talking about the Trailer Park now because they are the only ones misleading people/community. They are the sneaky ones trying to make some behind closed doors magic.

JohnR be careful I touched a nerve with KT Saturday AM after the article and he has been feeling a little froggy every since. He has his back against the SeaWall and the tide is coming in.

My posts are consistent. I have said that I would not let you smear these people who I know and I will not. Everything you have posted has been wrong. I have shown you two and that's all I need to show you. Your credibility has been gone for several weeks. And this is just another statement you are making that somebody has been misleading people and calling them sneaky, are you coming out here and calling them liars? If you know it for a fact that they lied, then just say it and don't worry about the possible reaction from them. Just end it, make a list on this board that says what somebody lied about. Stop your innuendo.

My posts are consistent. I have said that I would not let you smear these people who I know and I will not. Everything you have posted has been wrong. I have shown you two and that's all I need to show you. Your credibility has been gone for several weeks. And this is just another statement you are making that somebody has been misleading people and calling them sneaky, are you coming out here and calling them liars? If you know it for a fact that they lied, then just say it and don't worry about the possible reaction from them. Just end it, make a list on this board that says what somebody lied about. Stop your innuendo.

Like I said JohnR be careful.

Oh trust me KT I have reliable resources. Every time you post against the facts that I place on this board you lose credibility not me.

Let?s just see what the out come is Tuesday Night. I can not wait. It should be interesting to say the least.

I thought so Innuendodrog.