Redfish Village Beach Access

That is a stretch. I think those people to whom you refer do the most to protect the beaches. They may not fill it with sand, but they certainly do not add retaining walls which will eventually illiminate the beach as we know it today. In fact, they fight against the Gulf front homeowners who put up the walls, which is done, not to protect the beach, but to protect the yard and or home of an individual.

SJ...what am I going to do with you?..."do the most to protect the beaches?" That role is left to the owners and the county, not the non-owners of beachfront property. If these folks are so protective of the beach, how have we gotten to where we are? Au naturel beaches not maintained after Ivan created the billion dollar mess left after Dennis. Where were the folks who "do the most to protect the beaches?"
Where are these folks when I pick up debris on the beach? Where are they when I, and other owners, help the daily trash pickup driver load his truck? Where are these folks to warn the passers-by of possible problems areas on the beach? The occasional visitors don't do it, the surfers don't do it and the tourist don't do it consistently.Oh yeah, we have the annual "beach clean up day", don't we...let's say that happens five days a year; what about the other 360 days of the year? The owners know; the non-owners are not around for those days. Quite a stretch, huh?

The beach is our front yard. Do you clean, maintain and protect your front yard? We certainly do. I'm sure you enjoy our efforts.

Are these folks who "do the most to protect the beaches" complaning to the county about the proposed RFV project that will dump 100 to 300 people a day during the season on a 75 foot wide lot, abusing the beach at that point, creating formidable problems for the turtle nesting season and generally creating a negative affect on the beach and the neighborhood? Where are these protectors of the beach?

SJ...what am I going to do with you?..."do the most to protect the beaches?" That role is left to the owners and the county, not the non-owners of beachfront property. If these folks are so protective of the beach, how have we gotten to where we are? Au naturel beaches not maintained after Ivan created the billion dollar mess left after Dennis. Where were the folks who "do the most to protect the beaches?"
Where are these folks when I pick up debris on the beach? Where are they when I, and other owners, help the daily trash pickup driver load his truck? Where are these folks to warn the passers-by of possible problems areas on the beach? The occasional visitors don't do it, the surfers don't do it and the tourist don't do it consistently.Oh yeah, we have the annual "beach clean up day", don't we...let's say that happens five days a year; what about the other 360 days of the year? The owners know; the non-owners are not around for those days. Quite a stretch, huh?

The beach is our front yard. Do you clean, maintain and protect your front yard? We certainly do. I'm sure you enjoy our efforts.

Are these folks who "do the most to protect the beaches" complaning to the county about the proposed RFV project that will dump 100 to 300 people a day during the season on a 75 foot wide lot, abusing the beach at that point, creating formidable problems for the turtle nesting season and generally creating a negative affect on the beach and the neighborhood? Where are these protectors of the beach?

To answer your question, I am right here. I do not, and will never, own Gulf front property. However, I am constantly picking up trash from the beach. Just look in the back of my car on any given day and see the remains. I also have cleaned my share of beach crap from the water, removed pieces of destroyed walkovers from the beach, and try to teach young people to be the good example. I have attended meetings regarding the accesses and many other things regarding not only the beaches, but all of Walton County. I have volunteered numerous times and cleaned trash from Hwy 98. I have walked the beach many times, and continue to look after it. I am not the only non- Gulf-front owner who does similar things. No, I am not the average person, but I don't think that your stated actions are the average Gulf-front owner's.

I have listened to you b_tch and moan about this access, and have not once heard your solution to a growing problem. Frankly, you seem to piss many people off and it is difficult for me to want to team up on your team. My great grandma used to say, "You catch more flies with honey."

Kevin..there didn't need to be a judgement; RFV was clever enough not to persue a permit after Pat Blackshear issued a Stop Order on their project. By not persuing the permit, they now can claim they were never denied a permit...neat, huh? They are pubically stating this now. They are stating they thought the second lot would be a better lot for them and the community. Golly gee whiz, we got a developer in our mist who will spend an extra $5,000,000+ to make the community happy!!! Send more developers like that to the beach...we need this type of altruism!

I can't follow part of your post, but I think your saying something to the effect that the big, bad boogey man can come back if he wants to; if so, why did he leave in the first place? Oh, that's right, altruism rules!

Happy New Year to you and give GRM my best for the New Year!

So the question is how do we stop them from developing Lot2? I have heard from GE and he is stating that the Jan 11th meeting, that was suppose to happen in Feb, is a go.

Seems that Lot 1 is done so lets move on. This is why I have been posting LyingFish Village on these post. They can not be trusted according to everything I have read. KT never proved one post wrong except for the percentage of ownership Hard2Sell has in this development (It might be more than 20%).

Sounds like KT is on the inside of LyingFish and he is upset because the community is doing a great job of blocking Lot 2. Trolley to the beach. Yeah I want a diesel powered trolley to wake me up every morning not to mention the smell of diesel. That is great for our beach.

KT never produced the legal letter written by LyingFish that allowed the tractor back on lot 1. What kind of town is this when a letter from the people that run the place is put aside because a Lawyer wrote them back? I hope someone is taking notes because it is going to be a great story to tell.

KT-Lets knock down the house next to yours and put up tennis courts and a community pool with no parking and tell you that you can not use it. I know that is not what LyingFish Trailer Park is doing but this is the same concept if you do not own beachfront property. That is what is going to happen if they get this thing approved. I know I do not want it and I do not want my neighbors to have to do it. It all boils down to money and LyingFish is going to do whatever to they can and say whatever we want to hear to make this happen.

Maybe someone needs to come up with a bumper sticker. That should make the readers of this site shake a little. I see stickers all the time that say Seaside. So lets come up with something that LyingFish would be proud of.

BMBWalker,

Here another aerial view showing the main RFV property in relationship to the two beachfront lots.

Thanks WS.. I needed that file.

To answer your question, I am right here. I do not, and will never, own Gulf front property. However, I am constantly picking up trash from the beach. Just look in the back of my car on any given day and see the remains. I also have cleaned my share of beach crap from the water, removed pieces of destroyed walkovers from the beach, and try to teach young people to be the good example. I have attended meetings regarding the accesses and many other things regarding not only the beaches, but all of Walton County. I have volunteered numerous times and cleaned trash from Hwy 98. I have walked the beach many times, and continue to look after it. I am not the only non- Gulf-front owner who does similar things. No, I am not the average person, but I don't think that your stated actions are the average Gulf-front owner's.

I have listened to you b_tch and moan about this access, and have not once heard your solution to a growing problem. Frankly, you seem to piss many people off and it is difficult for me to want to team up on your team. My great grandma used to say, "You catch more flies with honey."

SJ..good to hear of your efforts. You must not have read my previous posts concerning stopping this kind of access; if you stop the private access now, developers will not make the money they want to make and lower density units will be developed in the future with less damage to the beach and neighborhoods. It's in my previous posts. You on the other hand want the county to buy property on or close to the beach and build some kind of parking structures. Boy, that's really going to be something to see and use! If you have lower density units, you need less parking.

My grandma used to say, "Be direct and honest." I don't think our grandma's would have had a good time together. As far as being on my team, I don't have a team. I'm trying to prevent the misuse of something you say you care so much about. You go spread your honey with the RFV folks and see what happens.

If you can't support my position against the RFV project for personal reasons, then communicate to the county that you support RFV. That would really be a smart, beach loving move.

BMBwalker, take a moment and forget about the private access for redfish village. Without a private access, please explain where you would have these condo owners and guests access the beach. Also elaborate on the additional use of services they will require. Do you think that they will be driving to Seaside to go to the beach? Take another moment and let's pretend that Redfish Village didn't exist. Let's turn the clock ahead 20 years (remember that Seaside was just kicking off 20 years ago) to when many existing lots in SoWal are built upon. Where are those people going to park to get to the public beach accesses? We have major problems and they are much larger than one private beach access which will not likely get used, because most users of Redfish will travel the most direct path to the beach -- the public accesses in the Blue Mtn Beach s/d.

To answer your question, I am right here. I do not, and will never, own Gulf front property. However, I am constantly picking up trash from the beach. Just look in the back of my car on any given day and see the remains. I also have cleaned my share of beach crap from the water, removed pieces of destroyed walkovers from the beach, and try to teach young people to be the good example. I have attended meetings regarding the accesses and many other things regarding not only the beaches, but all of Walton County. I have volunteered numerous times and cleaned trash from Hwy 98. I have walked the beach many times, and continue to look after it. I am not the only non- Gulf-front owner who does similar things. No, I am not the average person, but I don't think that your stated actions are the average Gulf-front owner's.

I have listened to you b_tch and moan about this access, and have not once heard your solution to a growing problem. Frankly, you seem to piss many people off and it is difficult for me to want to team up on your team. My great grandma used to say, "You catch more flies with honey."

I can vouch for SJ picking up crap on the beach because we have bumped into each other doing such.
Also, I am not gulf front, but myself and my neighbors have also cleaned up the beach after storms and after others.
Some of the things left on the beach came from gulffront owners who did not clean up after themselves.

I understand how you BMBW and others feel about the density of people on the beach in a small area, but stating that only the county and gulf front owners are the only people who care about the beaches and marine life, is just plain wrong.
I wish you could apply some of the passion you have about this issue in a more positive way. The RFV and other developments were approved or built, and there's no getting around that short of bulldozing them, which is not going to happen.

BMBwalker, take a moment and forget about the private access for redfish village. Without a private access, please explain where you would have these condo owners and guests access the beach. Also elaborate on the additional use of services they will require. Do you think that they will be driving to Seaside to go to the beach? Take another moment and let's pretend that Redfish Village didn't exist. Let's turn the clock ahead 20 years (remember that Seaside was just kicking off 20 years ago) to when many existing lots in SoWal are built upon. Where are those people going to park to get to the public beach accesses? We have major problems and they are much larger than one private beach access which will not likely get used, because most users of Redfish will travel the most direct path to the beach -- the public accesses in the Blue Mtn Beach s/d.

SJ...not interested in changing the subject. We can blue sky about the future after RFV private gateway access is resolved.

You can theorize and pontificate about the lack of parking and access as much as you like. It does no good to waste that kind of time, energy and money when the problem is at hand today and was created by the approving bodies here in the county. The county has created this problem and it's up to them to change their behavior or we will continue this type of issue in perpetuity. My issue today, not 20 years from now, is the meeting being held in a few days to determine the efficacy of the RFV request.

Your issue, as stated in previous posts, seems to be about parking. That's not the issue in this thread. The county has approved a project that, with it's actions, is going to harm a small portion of the beach and have negative future ramifications for the rest of the beach. That's what has to be challenged today and not the future access and parking 20 years from now. If this project is allowed to occur, the beach usage and atmosphere will be changed forever. BMB will no longer be the quiet, clean, uncluttered and natural spot it has been for decades. Folks actually own property here because of these qualities!

The county created this specific problem by apparently approving a project that was flawed in it's concept as far as the ramifications to the beach and private property owners go. The county now has to approve or disapprove of this project again! If the governing bodies want to destroy this lovely area, they certainly can with the decisions they make and power they have. One of the beautiful things about BMB has been it's human scale buildings and developements the county has approved in the past. Thing are really changing now with these high density, beach damaging projects going up!

I have go now; I'll have to leave the problems that will be here 20 years from now in your capable hands. I'm more concerned about the upcoming public meeting a few days away.

To answer your question, I am right here. I do not, and will never, own Gulf front property. However, I am constantly picking up trash from the beach. Just look in the back of my car on any given day and see the remains. I also have cleaned my share of beach crap from the water, removed pieces of destroyed walkovers from the beach, and try to teach young people to be the good example. I have attended meetings regarding the accesses and many other things regarding not only the beaches, but all of Walton County. I have volunteered numerous times and cleaned trash from Hwy 98. I have walked the beach many times, and continue to look after it. I am not the only non- Gulf-front owner who does similar things. No, I am not the average person, but I don't think that your stated actions are the average Gulf-front owner's.

I have listened to you b_tch and moan about this access, and have not once heard your solution to a growing problem. Frankly, you seem to piss many people off and it is difficult for me to want to team up on your team. My great grandma used to say, "You catch more flies with honey."

SJ...why would you not want to own beachfront property? It's a beautiful thing to be a part of on a daily basis.

Your issue, as stated in previous posts, seems to be about parking. That's not the issue in this thread. The county has approved a project that, with it's actions, is going to harm a small portion of the beach and have negative future ramifications for the rest of the beach. That's what has to be challenged today and not the future access and parking 20 years from now. If this project is allowed to occur, the beach usage and atmosphere will be changed forever. BMB will no longer be the quiet, clean, uncluttered and natural spot it has been for decades. Folks actually own property here because of these qualities!

Walker, I understand your fear. If this gets approved, it will, as I've stated before, set a precedent, which will have ramifications up and down 30A. Yes, your situation needs to be settled today, but the scenario Smiling Joe presents must be addressed today as well, because everyone who moves here will be coming to the beach one way or the other. The county is growing too fast for govt. to keep up, and we all need to figure out the plan before it's too late. Please keep us updated on the meeting.

SJ...why would you not want to own beachfront property? It's a beautiful thing to be a part of on a daily basis.

Yes, the beach is a beautiful thing to be a part of on a daily basis, and one not need build a home on top of a fragile, and ever-changing dune system to enjoy the beach. Maybe in 1979, this wasn't a big issue, but with so many people building on the dunes since that time, we have come to realize that it is a big deal and greatly affects the beach

You say the beach access parking is not the issue, but that is one of about three major concerns that opponents of this Private Beach Access -- parking up and down the streets by owners and guests of Redfish Village. Add to that the numerous lots in Lakeside at Blue Mtn, and you will have more parking problems than you can shake a stick at. Add to that any other people building on existing lots in SoWal, and the parking issue becomes even greater. You may own the beach in front of your house, but you don't own the street in front of your house. When people illegally park on the side of the street, you will not have the authority to hire a tow truck to come from Ft Walton Beach to remove the vehicles. The Sheriff has previously stated that the Sheriff's Office will not enforce parking violations. They have more important things to do with their limited staff. If you don't think that parking is pertinent to this thread, why don't you cross that off of your short list of reasons against this private access?

Walker, I understand your fear. If this gets approved, it will, as I've stated before, set a precedent, which will have ramifications up and down 30A. Yes, your situation needs to be settled today, but the scenario Smiling Joe presents must be addressed today as well, because everyone who moves here will be coming to the beach one way or the other. The county is growing too fast for govt. to keep up, and we all need to figure out the plan before it's too late. Please keep us updated on the meeting.

John R...concern would be a better choice of words.

I've noticed in some of your other postings you are quick to point out when someone hijacks a thread for their own personal issues. I'm surprised to see you do this now since you created this thread and named it "Redfish Village Beach Access". Lets try and stay focused!

Brad Pickel created a thread recently requesting suggestions from the community concerning parking and parking decks for future beach users. Smiling Joe chimed in with his usual comments and suggestions concerning the issue and I believe you did too. My point is that there is already a thread on this subject and it concerns future developments and parking needs; this thread concerns an issue and development that is imminently close to completion...big difference!

Please, take your future parking issues to Brad's thread...not appropriate here.

Yes, the beach is a beautiful thing to be a part of on a daily basis, and one not need build a home on top of a fragile, and ever-changing dune system to enjoy the beach. Maybe in 1979, this wasn't a big issue, but with so many people building on the dunes since that time, we have come to realize that it is a big deal and greatly affects the beach

You say the beach access parking is not the issue, but that is one of about three major concerns that opponents of this Private Beach Access -- parking up and down the streets by owners and guests of Redfish Village. Add to that the numerous lots in Lakeside at Blue Mtn, and you will have more parking problems than you can shake a stick at. Add to that any other people building on existing lots in SoWal, and the parking issue becomes even greater. You may own the beach in front of your house, but you don't own the street in front of your house. When people illegally park on the side of the street, you will not have the authority to hire a tow truck to come from Ft Walton Beach to remove the vehicles. The Sheriff has previously stated that the Sheriff's Office will not enforce parking violations. They have more important things to do with their limited staff. If you don't think that parking is pertinent to this thread, why don't you cross that off of your short list of reasons against this private access?

Smiling Joe...please read my post #213 to John R; applies to you also.

Sorry to see you go over to the dark side!

Walker, I understand your fear. If this gets approved, it will, as I've stated before, set a precedent, which will have ramifications up and down 30A. Yes, your situation needs to be settled today, but the scenario Smiling Joe presents must be addressed today as well, because everyone who moves here will be coming to the beach one way or the other. The county is growing too fast for govt. to keep up, and we all need to figure out the plan before it's too late. Please keep us updated on the meeting.

John R...BTW, did you ever get the name of the lovely lady on your posts?

I do not plan on getting into this hornet's nest except to let everyone know that it is my understanding that NO properties located between Big Redfish Lake and the CR83 access own to the water's edge. There is a platted public beach in front of all of them. To the west of CR83 is another issue entirely as most of those deeds read to the water's edge. I don't know if this matters, I just thought it may help in the highlighted section above.

Brad, can you please refer me to a specific document that reflects the bolded statement above?
Thanks.

A few people have said that RFV was on a "fast track". I now believe them. They also said that Planning had already approved the project devolpment internally. I also believe them regarding this.

Jason Bryan, county planning, is assigned to this project. He has stated over the phone that he sees nothing wrong with RFV's project.

During the Technical Review Committee (TRC) meeting, Mr. Bryan also made a comment that he thought that a private access / bathroom lot for 80 condos was a better a use than having condos built on the lot. A neighbor who attended stood up and took exception with that statement.

I believe that Mr. Bryan was totally off base when he made such a subjective judgement call regarding what was a better use for that property.

The neighbor who took exception to his comments stated that all the neighbors he knows would much rather prefer condos built on this lot as opposed to RFV's proposed use.

It's very difficult to understand what motivated Mr. Bryan (and Planning) to make such an opinionated statement. But then again, maybe it's not.

Brad, can you please refer me to a specific document that reflects the bolded statement above?
Thanks.

Sure. See SJoes post of the plat for the Subdivision. It is in Plat Book 2 page 41. All of the lots have a length and width with a beach in front of them. With the beach erosion that has occurred, the platted beach in front of the lots may not exist- I don't know for sure. Additionally, I reviewed the property appraisers online data and checked the Walton County GIS. PLEASE let me know if you see or know of something that makes my statement incorrect. Thanks in advance.

Brad

Smiling JOe recently asked BMBWalker what BMBW saw as some possible solutions to the ongoing problem of finite beach space and unlimited potential demands for the same space.

Right now, there is an ongoing issue of private vs. public beach. I didn't invent this idea. Private means private. Public means public. I have stated repeatedly that much of Blue Mountain Beach is private.

How can the County distinguish in this situation with RFV, how many non-gulf front condo units (with a proposed small limited private access lot) are too many for the area considering the limited amount of public beach? Right now the total number of units at RFV is 80. What would happen if they had 200 units? How about 1000 units? Where does the county draw the line?

Smiling JOe asked for a solution. Here's mine (at least a partial one). Let the market place decide how many condos and homes can be successfully marketed that do NOT trample on the rights of private property owners. I think that is a simple and straight forward start.

Walton County has disregarded private property rights in the past and are doing so again now by simply not following the golden "INFILL ZONING" rule of compatibility with the neighborhood. If Walton County were to follow their own rules, then RFV probably would have to market their project without private beach access.

Regarding that much discussed idea of disclosure in another thread, it would seem to me that regardless of the outcome of the 260 BMB Road lot, that RFV would have to disclose to their clients that the property on either side of the private access is also private property (i.e. limited area).

Sure. See SJoes post of the plat for the Subdivision. It is in Plat Book 2 page 41. All of the lots have a length and width with a beach in front of them. With the beach erosion that has occurred, the platted beach in front of the lots may not exist- I don't know for sure. Additionally, I reviewed the property appraisers online data and checked the Walton County GIS. PLEASE let me know if you see or know of something that makes my statement incorrect. Thanks in advance.

Brad

Thanks for the quick reply. I've reviewed that document that you refer to above many times in the past. I see nothing there that determines who owns the "BEACH" as labeled in the document. Am I missing something? As for the property appraiser's office and GIS, I don't believe either carries any legal weight as to the ownership of the beach area. There should be (I would think) a document that exists in the public records of Walton County that would clearly show this; either a warranty deed, quit claim deed or some other document that is "legally" recorded.

It is clear from this document that the individual properties do not own up to the water line, but it is not clear who owns the sandy part of the beach itself.

Smiling Joe...please read my post #213 to John R; applies to you also.

Sorry to see you go over to the dark side!

I will, if you will not use illegal parking as one of your points for oposing the private access. (Bet you $10 that you will continue to use parking in your yard as one of the reasons you are against it. -- Maybe I will bring my tape recorder to the meeting on the 11th. )

John R...concern would be a better choice of words.

I've noticed in some of your other postings you are quick to point out when someone hijacks a thread for their own personal issues. I'm surprised to see you do this now since you created this thread and named it "Redfish Village Beach Access". Lets try and stay focused!

Brad Pickel created a thread recently requesting suggestions from the community concerning parking and parking decks for future beach users. Smiling Joe chimed in with his usual comments and suggestions concerning the issue and I believe you did too. My point is that there is already a thread on this subject and it concerns future developments and parking needs; this thread concerns an issue and development that is imminently close to completion...big difference!

Please, take your future parking issues to Brad's thread...not appropriate here.

Yes concern may be a good choice, but considering the amount and fervor of your posts, fear seems more accurate. Fear of the multitude of potential issues in the future.

Yes, brad has authored a lovely thread on hypothetical parking problems and solutions. I am aware of it as I have posted in it. What I am also aware of is that I authored this thread and therefor am entitled to to steer it in any direction I see fit. You, having recently joined this community and and it seems, the internets, have no say as to where it is to go, and less say advising me on same. You have attempted before to tell me how to carry myself on this board. Please refrain from doing so. Many here have induldged you, others have not been so kind. Please go back and reread some responses to your posts, you'll be doing us all a favor.

Parking has been mentioned before with regards to RFV and their potential future as your next door neighbor. It is the tip of the iceberg, and not limited to your 75' section of the beach. Maybe you missed where I understand the implications of what this could mean to the rest of the county. That must be the case, because if I've read your posts accurately, you could care less about what could even happen across CR83. Do I detect an air of alienation happeneing up there on Blue Mountain Road? I'd hate to see you fighting this solo from chasing away people who could help champion your cause. I could have been one of them, but you clearly think I endorse this project.

If you are referring to the book thread>>this thread, wouldn't it have sucked if this conversation was continuing in the book thread?

Btw, of course I know who she is, as I know know the name of everyone of my avitars. Please stick to the topic at hand or start your own thread. It's not appropriate...

BMBV welcome back, I missed you. Hope you all had a safe and happy holiday.

I just started reading this and it is disgusting. All of you talking about your beach. BMBW, you are the worst you have no more rights to the beach than I do. Who do you think you are? I live north of 98 and I come down 83 to the beach and I have as much right to be there as you do. And I will keep coming down 83 and this summer I think I will rent a bus and get 100 of my friends and come right to 83 and find You and Kevin and sit right next to you. I can bring 500 people down there and you can't say a word to me. In fact I think my husband and I will start a shuttle service to go to the beach for all of us 2nd class people and come straight down to 83 with as many people as we can. I would lose money on the bus serviceso you can't worry about me making money and call me a developer. Guess what, it's my beach. And it seems to me that if these people have a shuttle it keeps cars off your yards. What's wrong with you people?

Welcome, Ginger. What an exciting first post. You have so much vitality.

I am new to this system so I am not sure if that is a compliment? But I do know how to read people and I know that BMBW must be a sad and lonely person who likes to control everything telling people how they should think, what they should do about things, what is important and never allowing anybody else to have an opinion. Well I have one and I will let him know it.

Ginger! Hope you post often.