Religion in schools

Discussion in 'Local Government and Groups' started by Matt J, Feb 19, 2009.

  1. Matt J

    Matt J SWGB

    Joined:
    May 9, 2007
    Messages:
    22,169
    Likes Received:
    2,269
    You're also making the assumption that wroberts not just lieing.
     
  2. Bob Wells

    Bob Wells Beach Fanatic

    Joined:
    Jul 25, 2008
    Messages:
    3,075
    Likes Received:
    784
    I assume all people are honest until I find different.
     
  3. wrobert

    wrobert Beach Fanatic

    Joined:
    Nov 21, 2007
    Messages:
    4,134
    Likes Received:
    575
    Location:
    DeFuniak Springs

    And what purpose would that serve?
     
  4. Matt J

    Matt J SWGB

    Joined:
    May 9, 2007
    Messages:
    22,169
    Likes Received:
    2,269
    I'm not sure, it's based on your track record.
     
  5. wrobert

    wrobert Beach Fanatic

    Joined:
    Nov 21, 2007
    Messages:
    4,134
    Likes Received:
    575
    Location:
    DeFuniak Springs

    Example please?
     
  6. Matt J

    Matt J SWGB

    Joined:
    May 9, 2007
    Messages:
    22,169
    Likes Received:
    2,269
    No problem, it's from your campaign. You stated on a sowallers back porch as a candidate for school board that you were an "old school republican" that believed in the separation of church and state and that prayer in school was not something you supported.

    You then filled out a survey provided by one of the local churches that stated the exact opposite.

    It's not the Webster's definition, but generally when you tell one party something and then tell another party something entirely different it is a lie.
     
  7. wrobert

    wrobert Beach Fanatic

    Joined:
    Nov 21, 2007
    Messages:
    4,134
    Likes Received:
    575
    Location:
    DeFuniak Springs

    I do not support nor am I for corporate prayer in schools. I do support a students right to pray in school, for the free assembly of Christian students in school, just like I support the right of Wiccans and anyone else to express themselves as long as it does not interfere with the educational environment. I do not see how there is an interest served by the State to interfere. When you start endorsing one thing over another, like censorship, you really start down a slippery slope.
     
  8. Bob

    Bob SoWal Insider

    Joined:
    Nov 16, 2004
    Messages:
    10,445
    Likes Received:
    1,248
    Location:
    O'Wal
    why the fixation on religious activity in public school? what is the purpose of religiously expressing yourself in any public school?
     
  9. ShallowsNole

    ShallowsNole Beach Fanatic

    Joined:
    Jun 22, 2005
    Messages:
    4,259
    Likes Received:
    731
    Location:
    Pt Washington
    We who vote in Walton County make it an issue. Unlike many readers of this forum, we grew up affirming our unenlightened, backwood, predominantly Protestant Christian redneck faith in school, and we don't like change.

    Now, let's go back to stuff I can't comment on, like the bed tax. :cool:
     
    Last edited: Feb 22, 2009
  10. Jdarg

    Jdarg SoWal Expert

    Joined:
    Feb 15, 2005
    Messages:
    18,069
    Likes Received:
    1,961
    I think most people who feel that their children's religious rights at school have been trampled on really do not understand that students themselves have quite a bit of religious freedom as school. The following article is a very clear explanation of what is and isn't allowed- a careful reading might be enlightening. You would think that kids aren't allow to utter a prayer- and that is simply not true.

    SN- I am Protestant Christian, but I never grew up assuming that my particular brand of religion should be promoted at school over other religions. We did church at church when I was growing up. I would not call this is a Christian vs. non-Christian thing.


    Americans United: Joint Statement of Current Law on Religion in the Public Schools



    Joint Statement of Current Law on Religion in the Public Schools


    Religion In The Public Schools:
    A Joint Statement Of Current Law

    The Constitution permits much private religious activity in and about the public schools. Unfortunately, this aspect of constitutional law is not as well known as it should be. Some say that the Supreme Court has declared the public schools "religion-free zones" or that the law is so murky that school officials cannot know what is legally permissible. The former claim is simply wrong. And as to the latter, while there are some difficult issues, much has been settled. It is also unfortunately true that public school officials, due to their busy schedules, may not be as fully aware of this body of law as they could be. As a result, in some school districts some of these rights are not being observed.
    The organizations whose names appear below span the ideological, religious and political spectrum. They nevertheless share a commitment both to the freedom of religious practice and to the separation of church and state such freedom requires. In that spirit, we offer this statement of consensus on current law as an aid to parents, educators and students.
    Many of the organizations listed below are actively involved in litigation about religion in the schools. On some of the issues discussed in this summary, some of the organizations have urged the courts to reach positions different than they did. Though there are signatories on both sides which have and will press for different constitutional treatments of some of the topics discussed below, they all agree that the following is an accurate statement of what the law currently is.
    Student Prayers

    1. Students have the right to pray individually or in groups or to discuss their religious views with their peers so long as they are not disruptive. Because the Establishment Clause does not apply to purely private speech, students enjoy the right to read their Bibles or other scriptures, say grace before meals, pray before tests, and discuss religion with other willing student listeners. In the classroom students have the right to pray quietly except when required to be actively engaged in school activities (e.g., students may not decide to pray just as a teacher calls on them). In informal settings, such as the cafeteria or in the halls, students may pray either audibly or silently, subject to the same rules of order as apply to other speech in these locations. However, the right to engage in voluntary prayer does not include, for example, the right to have a captive audience listen or to compel other students to participate.
     
  11. NoHall

    NoHall hmmmm......can't remember

    Joined:
    May 28, 2007
    Messages:
    9,042
    Likes Received:
    498
    Location:
    Northern Hall County, GA
    Thanks, wise jdarg--my dander gets up when people confuse freedom of religion with freedom from religion.
     
  12. Bob

    Bob SoWal Insider

    Joined:
    Nov 16, 2004
    Messages:
    10,445
    Likes Received:
    1,248
    Location:
    O'Wal
    religion at church and learning at school.....what a novel idea
     
  13. Jdarg

    Jdarg SoWal Expert

    Joined:
    Feb 15, 2005
    Messages:
    18,069
    Likes Received:
    1,961
    I am seeing a t-shirt here....:D
     
  14. woodworker

    woodworker Beach Lover

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2008
    Messages:
    156
    Likes Received:
    32
    Location:
    SRB
    It is our spiritual connection to our one true God (Creator). We will express ourselves in school, church, home, gas station, store, anywhere. It is our constitutional right to speak freely and besides, the spirit in us doesn't answer to worldly governments. Our kingdom is not of this world.

    You're free to disagree all day long. We all have a choice and, regardless of mainstream Christian belief, the choice is up to the individual. If you can choose to express your disbelief, then we can choose to express our belief. So......

    MAKE YOUR CHOICE, and leave the rest of us alone.

    You are all so hung up on keeping God out of everything that we're almost going to have to establish a new religion for the rest of you.

    Then will we try to keep your religion out of schools? No, because it is your free and constitutional right.

    Prayer in schools - let us pray to our God, and leave; you pray to your god, and leave; the rest can meditate. You can pray first if you'd like.

    (Cheek turned)
     
  15. ShallowsNole

    ShallowsNole Beach Fanatic

    Joined:
    Jun 22, 2005
    Messages:
    4,259
    Likes Received:
    731
    Location:
    Pt Washington
    jdarg - thank you for the article. I understand what you are saying. But what I am saying is that I had no personal knowledge of anybody who was not of the Christian faith until I was WELL into college - in Tallahassee. The biggest question we had to consider in reference to religion was if you were saved, and if so, should you be baptized by immersion or would sprinkling be sufficient.

    We were taught that this country was founded on freedom of worship. The government and educational facilities could not interfere with your right to worship - in the Christian faith. Since everyone worshiped the same way, there were no issues.

    My parents were still alive when the controversies over prayer in school began here. Their comments were that taking prayer out of school was the devil's work and was the first step in sending this entire country to Hell. Again, the thought of any other faith than our own did not even enter the picture.

    That was then, and this is now. The point is, in Walton County, I would propose that virtually everybody north and east of DeFuniak Springs, as well as most people originally from the Freeport area, still view the prayer in school issue the same way that my parents did. That would work out to about 65 - 70% of the voting public.

    If anyone else that grew up here wants to dispute me, feel free. But that is why prayer in school remains a major issue locally.
     
  16. Jdarg

    Jdarg SoWal Expert

    Joined:
    Feb 15, 2005
    Messages:
    18,069
    Likes Received:
    1,961
    As I said, read the info that I posted. Nobody is prohibiting your children from praying at school.

    As Bdarg says, it is not about your kid praying at school, it is about the school telling our kid WHAT to pray.
     
    Last edited: Feb 22, 2009
  17. ShallowsNole

    ShallowsNole Beach Fanatic

    Joined:
    Jun 22, 2005
    Messages:
    4,259
    Likes Received:
    731
    Location:
    Pt Washington
    Did I say that I was concerned about my child being able to say his own prayers in school?

    No. I was explaining why what is a given fact to people who grew up in larger areas and who are accustomed to happily living with people of other faiths, tends to go over like a poot in a spacesuit in Walton County.

    And unfortunately, most of what comes out of my child's mouth is anything but a prayer. Getting better, but still a ways to go. :roll:
     
  18. GoodWitch58

    GoodWitch58 Beach Fanatic

    Joined:
    Oct 10, 2005
    Messages:
    4,816
    Likes Received:
    1,921
    Gosh! I think it might be better if we moved into the present time..

    it is sad to me if what you say is true (and maybe you are right--I was born here, but only moved back 10 years ago after living in many other places, including outside of the US) that people in this county are still thinking and acting upon on current events as though we were living in the fifties and sixties...is that really true?

    We have learned so much more about other people, other religions, other ways of being in the last thirty years. Is the majority of the population of Walton County that far behind current thinking? and, if that is true, what does that say about how we are preparing our children for the global community?

    I am probably older than you, but I do not remember this exactly as you do--I don't remember religion being such a part of school. We did not have religious clubs; and while church was an important part of our life, I often felt it was as much a "social" time as a worship time--actually, I think in many ways it still is--both social and worship, but I don't remember it being such a focus or issue in school.

    Maybe as you say, everyone was pretty much of the same belief, so it was just something that was "non- conscious" .

    If this is true, then it might explain a lot of things about how business is conducted locally. Interesting information. Thanks for posting. I will have to give this some more thought.
     
  19. ShallowsFuzz

    ShallowsFuzz Beach Lover

    Joined:
    Dec 26, 2006
    Messages:
    175
    Likes Received:
    45
    Location:
    Point Washington
    Let me tell you a story, a story I hope you have heard. There was a man who built an Ark. God told him to build this Ark. People in Noah's community saw what he was doing and began telling him you're stupid for building this. Noah kept building. As time passed, he finished it, God shut the door and all those who didn't get on board well, you know.

    The point is, God is the same as he was in the beginning of time. His Word hasn't changed and won't.
    It isn't the global community we should be more concerned preparing our children for, it's preparing them for their eternal life with God.
    Let us teach them.
    "Teach the little children, and forbid them not to come unto me."
    If we are true Christians, it should follow us into the schools, not left on the door steps.:D
     
    Last edited: Feb 22, 2009
  20. 30A Skunkape

    30A Skunkape Mr. Small Box

    Joined:
    Jan 18, 2006
    Messages:
    10,090
    Likes Received:
    1,894
    Location:
    Backatown Seagrove
    Lordy I'm glad I went to Catholic schools and avoided the readin', 'ritin and resurrection drama.
     

Share This Page