Religion in schools

pray for no prayer!?

Well, don't go looking for this one on the Good News Thread*.

Yeah, Baby - no kidding. Whew!
*...

pray for no prayer!?

I pray everyday - what's wrong with prayer? I am all about whatever a person does/needs for themselves is totally cool with me.

Ahem - sorry. I evidently don't know how to do the multi quote thingy.....still learning how to navigate this site. Please forgive me.

I pray everyday - what's wrong with prayer? I am all about whatever a person does/needs for themselves is totally cool with me.

nothing if it does not occur in public school to the detriment of public education

Food for thought:

The Sheep and The Lambs

'Twas a sheep, not a lamb, that strayed away
In the parable Jesus told,
A grown -up sheep, that had gone astray
From the ninety and nine in the fold.

Out on the hillside, out in the cold,
Was a sheep the Good Shepherd sought,
And back to the fold, safe into the fold
"Twas a sheep the Good Shepherd brought.

And why for the sheep should we earnestly long,
And fervently hope and pray?
Because there is danger; If the sheep go wrong,
They will lead the lambs astray.

For the lambs will follow the sheep you know,
Wherever the sheep may stray;
When the sheep go wrong, it will not be long
Till the lambs are as wrong as they.

And so with the sheep we earnestly plead
For the sake of the lambs today;
If the lambs are lost, what a terrible cost
Some sheep will have to pay.

Food for thought:

The Sheep and The Lambs

'Twas a sheep, not a lamb, that strayed away
In the parable Jesus told,
A grown -up sheep, that had gone astray
From the ninety and nine in the fold.

Out on the hillside, out in the cold,
Was a sheep the Good Shepherd sought,
And back to the fold, safe into the fold
"Twas a sheep the Good Shepherd brought.

And why for the sheep should we earnestly long,
And fervently hope and pray?
Because there is danger; If the sheep go wrong,
They will lead the lambs astray.

For the lambs will follow the sheep you know,
Wherever the sheep may stray;
When the sheep go wrong, it will not be long
Till the lambs are as wrong as they.

And so with the sheep we earnestly plead
For the sake of the lambs today;
If the lambs are lost, what a terrible cost
Some sheep will have to pay.

The sheep are trying to escape slaughter. From their point of view they are doing the right thing. Are you calling Christianity a form of intellectual murder? If so we agree on something!

[Edit] By the way, kudos to the sheep who does his own thing. That's very unsheeplike. More power to you!

nothing if it does not occur in public school to the detriment of public education

OK - cool. Don't take this response out of context. It was a reply to:

"pray for no prayer."

Bob, I am one of the most respectful persons you will ever meet. And, quite respectful of public school, our systems as well as other belief systems.

Thank you and cheers to you!

Y'all argue with each other and please leave me out of it. That just exhausts me!!

BTW, there are early Christian Bishops that were named Lucifer.

BTW, there are early Christian Bishops that were named Lucifer.

I can't believe he would use the sheep as an example. It's a putdown to be known as a sheep who just follows along in today's society. The sheep who breaks away is a heroic underdog, much like the tortoise who beats the hare in a foot race.

I pray everyday - what's wrong with prayer? I am all about whatever a person does/needs for themselves is totally cool with me.

I say a simple prayer every day-

Dear Lord, please protect me from those who believe in you.

Food for thought:

The Sheep and The Lambs

'Twas a sheep, not a lamb, that strayed away
In the parable Jesus told,
A grown -up sheep, that had gone astray
From the ninety and nine in the fold.

Out on the hillside, out in the cold,
Was a sheep the Good Shepherd sought,
And back to the fold, safe into the fold
"Twas a sheep the Good Shepherd brought.

And why for the sheep should we earnestly long,
And fervently hope and pray?
Because there is danger; If the sheep go wrong,
They will lead the lambs astray.

For the lambs will follow the sheep you know,
Wherever the sheep may stray;
When the sheep go wrong, it will not be long
Till the lambs are as wrong as they.

And so with the sheep we earnestly plead
For the sake of the lambs today;
If the lambs are lost, what a terrible cost
Some sheep will have to pay.

Don't worry - not everyone misunderstood it. Just those that are "quick on the jaw". :roll:

I can't believe he would use the sheep as an example. It's a putdown to be known as a sheep who just follows along in today's society. The sheep who breaks away is a heroic underdog, much like the tortoise who beats the hare in a foot race.

You're confusing two parables.

Yes, it is heroic for a person to be a trail blazer and different. This is a "black sheep".

The parable of the "lost Sheep" is about a sheep that had LOST it's way and finds itself in danger.

Jesus's parable speaks of the good shepherd, who leaves the ninety-nine to find the one lost. The righteous became angry with Jesus because he ate with tax collectors, spoke with prostitutes and sinners. He embraced those that the "godly" (lower case) of his day shunned, or worse...stoned ( we all remember the story of the adulterous woman). Jesus said,(paraphrase) does the shepherd not leave his flock to collect the one lost sheep?

The parable was used to desribe God's love for the lost sheep. Yes, the shepherd loves all of his sheep, but he will leave them to find the lost one and bring him home. And once he is home he will rejoice!

It is shocking to me the number of agnostics and atheists that are here in Sowal. Which are you, LuciferSam? I, and the other nintey-five percent of the world, invite you to find God. Whether it be in Islam, Taoism, Buddism or ,praise be, the New Testament.

I already know you won't though. An agnostic can't find God the way a criminal can't find a police officer. He doesn't want to.;-)

That being said, there are no atheists in fox holes. I can tell you that for a fact. I've SEEN people find God as they lay dying. That's no way to do it.

PAX
Todd

It is troubling to me that in this day in age that there are so many sheep in this country.

No one misunderstoood the sheep tale. We just find it a bit silly that we need to communicate straight forward thoughts or obvious life lessons to adults using nursery rhymes.

And we find it ironic that the nursery rhyme followers on this thread are using (in an effort to create more followers) includes sheep in its theme.

That being said, there are no atheists in fox holes. I can tell you that for a fact.

Fact, huh? Then what do you call all these people who don't believe in gods or religion who serve in foxholes?

Click on their link. They want you to know they exist.

below->
Atheists in Foxholes

Fact, huh? Then what do you call all these people who don't believe in gods or religion who serve in foxholes?

Click on their link. They want you to know they exist.

below->
Atheists in Foxholes

I stand corrected. However, I have not had the chance to hold any of these folks as the cry for momma...then God..(in THAT order) while they die lying shot(or stabbed) in a ghetto.

Perhaps I along with the rest of us 'nursery rhymers" (all people of faith) are ignorant and the five percent of you who claim no faith are right.

We'll just have to wait and see.

As I said...a criminal can't find a police officer, because he doesn't want to. I am, of course.......and so are you. I am not here to evangelize and we've gotten off the topic of civil liberties afforded by the Constitution.

PAX
Todd

I stand corrected. However, I have not had the chance to hold any of these folks as the cry for momma...then God..(in THAT order) while they die lying shot(or stabbed) in a ghetto.

Perhaps I along with the rest of us 'nursery rhymers" (all people of faith) are ignorant and the five percent of you who claim no faith are right.

We'll just have to wait and see.

As I said...a criminal can't find a police officer, because he doesn't want to. I am, of course.......and so are you. I am not here to evangelize and we've gotten off the topic of civil liberties afforded by the Constitution.

PAX
Todd

This is from the Washington Post in 2007-

A study released in June by the Barna Group, a religious polling firm, found that about 5 million adults in the United States call themselves atheists. The number rises to about 20 million -- about one in every 11 Americans -- if people who say they have no religious faith or are agnostic (they doubt the existence of a God or a supreme deity) are included.

They tend to be more educated, more affluent and more likely to be male and unmarried than those with active faith, according to the Barna study. Only 6 percent of people over 60 have no faith in God, and one in four adults ages 18 to 22 describe themselves as having no faith.

Many of us don't feel the need for an "answer" to everything. We believe humans don't have the answer and refuse to latch on to a belief for the sake of somehow saving our souls out of fear. We enjoy life and the beauty of our surroundings without constantly worrying about whether or not we are pleasing some great cloud being.

We have great respect for your freedom to worship as you wish but we just wish you would stop trying to convert us. In fact I sometimes feel I have more respect for religion than many religious people. Every day I see examples of religious individuals engaging in activities they would consider to be a "sin" because they somehow feel since they are such "good Christians" God will give them a pass. I once worked for a man who attended church every sunday and would express his belief in God yet would cheat on his wife at every chance possible. He told me he didn't believe you would go to hell for breaking one commandment. I never new god graded on the curve.

This is from the Washington Post in 2007-



Many of us don't feel the need for an "answer" to everything. We believe humans don't have the answer and refuse to latch on to a belief for the sake of somehow saving our souls out of fear. We enjoy life and the beauty of our surroundings without constantly worrying about whether or not we are pleasing some great cloud being.

We have great respect for your freedom to worship as you wish but we just wish you would stop trying to convert us. In fact I sometimes feel I have more respect for religion than many religious people. Every day I see examples of religious individuals engaging in activities they would consider to be a "sin" because they somehow feel since they are such "good Christians" God will give them a pass. I once worked for a man who attended church every sunday and would express his belief in God yet would cheat on his wife at every chance possible. He told me he didn't believe you would go to hell for breaking one commandment. I never new god graded on the curve.

He doesn't. A priest once told my father, when my father was bragging about his other son being a "good Christian", that there was no such thing. When I think about it...he's right.

I liked your post. The US is increasingly finding it has no faith identity.

PAX
Todd

You're confusing two parables.

Yes, it is heroic for a person to be a trail blazer and different. This is a "black sheep".

The parable of the "lost Sheep" is about a sheep that had LOST it's way and finds itself in danger.

Jesus's parable speaks of the good shepherd, who leaves the ninety-nine to find the one lost. The righteous became angry with Jesus because he ate with tax collectors, spoke with prostitutes and sinners. He embraced those that the "godly" (lower case) of his day shunned, or worse...stoned ( we all remember the story of the adulterous woman). Jesus said,(paraphrase) does the shepherd not leave his flock to collect the one lost sheep?

The parable was used to desribe God's love for the lost sheep. Yes, the shepherd loves all of his sheep, but he will leave them to find the lost one and bring him home. And once he is home he will rejoice!

It is shocking to me the number of agnostics and atheists that are here in Sowal. Which are you, LuciferSam? I, and the other nintey-five percent of the world, invite you to find God. Whether it be in Islam, Taoism, Buddism or ,praise be, the New Testament.

I already know you won't though. An agnostic can't find God the way a criminal can't find a police officer. He doesn't want to.;-)

That being said, there are no atheists in fox holes. I can tell you that for a fact. I've SEEN people find God as they lay dying. That's no way to do it.

PAX
Todd

you are exposing your true nature now, as you are all over the map. comparing an agnostic to a criminal. yes, god loves all the"lost" sheep. that's why he has hell at the ready in case they don't embrace his "love". how could you possibly be shocked to find people who think for themselves? you just can't keep the bible in the holster, so it must permeate every aspect of your existence to the point of pushing it on others. that is the essence of our debate here. religion of any type has no place in public education.

Interesting quote that was in the sig file of a good friend's e-mail I received today...
Just thought I'd share...

"With or without religion, you would have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things. But for good people to do evil things, that takes religion."
- Steven Weinberg

I stand corrected. However, I have not had the chance to hold any of these folks as the cry for momma...then God..(in THAT order) while they die lying shot(or stabbed) in a ghetto.

Perhaps I along with the rest of us 'nursery rhymers" (all people of faith) are ignorant and the five percent of you who claim no faith are right.

We'll just have to wait and see.

PAX
Todd

Let's set the record straight. I did not call people of faith "nursery rhymers" or ignorant.

and to further set the record straight:

not all "people of faith" believe the same thing;

not all "people of faith" want to see religion in the public school system; and,

not all "people of faith" try to convert others to their way of thinking or believing.

how about we have a little tolerance and acceptance. I seriously doubt if any of us can determine a person's belief system from their postings on a message board!

I respect everyone's right to believe whatever they want...or not.
I only ask for the same respect in return...

Now, as to the topic on the board:
I don't want public school officials teaching religious conversion any more than I want the ministers teaching English and math!

Interesting quote that was in the sig file of a good friend's e-mail I received today...
Just thought I'd share...

"With or without religion, you would have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things. But for good people to do evil things, that takes religion."
- Steven Weinberg

With or without people, you would have good religions doing good things and evil religions doing evil things. But for good religions to do evil things, that takes people.
- Author Unknown

Ha! Just playin' with ya!

(My head hurts)