Remove Septic Tanks on beaches and lakes

I have lived in SRB for over 15 years. In that time I have NEVER seen an advisory against beach water conditions. (the bay, well that is a different story.) The studies were negative for fecal coliform. So, it's not the septic situation, that's why the dune lakes are all good.
It is of no coincidence that this is happening during the first good storm since the spill. If anyone feels differently, I know who you are still getting checks from.

Bacteria from poop is not something we can blame on BP. Rain and flooding send a lot downstream.

oh, i'm really sorry to hear about your family getting sick(especially while on vacation!). We have been coming to the area for 10 years and I never even gave a 2nd thought to the water quality while there(well, except when we came down right after the oil spill, which it was fine then too). is this something that has happened before? Were people taking it seriously when the sheriff drove the beach with a warning? Is this dangerous? I wonder about infections in addition to the gastro-illnesses.

on another note, i noticed on the DOH website that the water quality advisory was also issued as far away as Pensacola, so I am not sure that the septic tanks have anything to do with this particular problem(although, i'm sure they are a problem all their own!).

So, now, when I'm planning my next vacation to the beach(any beach I suppose), I have to check the water quality before I decide if my child can get in the gulf? That's depressing.

I'd love to know how others are dealing with this situation. Actually, I wish I didn't know about it(like most people who are at the beach right now!

Areas west of us had a LOT of rain (like 20+ inches) a few weeks ago and serious flooding- definitely not something that happens a lot here. We have lived here 5 years and have not experienced a water health advisory either (although we did stay out of the water most of the summer after the BP spill).

As usual timing is everything, and I am sad that this water quality advisory happened during the busy tourist season (along with TS Debby- when it rains it pours). Remember that so many inland rivers, lakes, streams, and creeks are terribly dirty- and many are swimming, boating, and playing in them too. I am still stunned that people even touch a toe in the Ohio River, and thankfully there is an effort to clean up the waterways in the Louisville Parks system, but their water quality issues are bad every single day and have been for years. As populations increase, and the infrastructure does not keep up (in this case sewer systems/storm runoff, enforcing pollution rules on manufacturing and setting higher standards, and enforcing rules on individuals whose homes are contributing to the mess),we are going to see more and more of this. The Panhandle has a lot of people now- it all has to go somewhere. Even if you are not an enviro nut, you do have to agree that swimming in dirty water is really not cool- and you need to look at the reasons why it is dirty.

I thought that the dune lake sampling/monitoring was done on a monthly basis (http://sowal.com/coastal-dune-lakes-of-south-walton-county) as opposed to weekly. The beach water quality tests are done weekly. If that's the case, it may be misleading to say the lakes are fine unless they've done extra testing on the lakes, which I doubt.

However, if you take a look at the historical beach sampling results this is definitely unusual. For example, for both Grayton and Eastern Lake there are only a couple of moderate results in the last six years. No poors.

Florida Healthy Beaches Program

If you look at the other reports from Bay to Escambia counties, this is a wider spread issue than Walton County.

I thought that the dune lake sampling/monitoring was done on a monthly basis (http://sowal.com/coastal-dune-lakes-of-south-walton-county) as opposed to weekly. The beach water quality tests are done weekly. If that's the case, it may be misleading to say the lakes are fine unless they've done extra testing on the lakes, which I doubt.

However, if you take a look at the historical beach sampling results this is definitely unusual. For example, for both Grayton and Eastern Lake there are only a couple of moderate results in the last six years. No poors.

http://esetappsdoh.doh.state.fl.us/irm00beachwater/default.aspx

If you look at the other reports from Bay to Escambia counties, this is a wider spread issue than Walton County.

yes, i agree that it's wider spread than just walton county. that's what i said before. it doesn't look like septic tanks would be the issue since it's in pensacola as well, so like another poster said, i bet it is the flooding. i'm sure it will clear up and be back to normal soon. (although i don't really like the idea of the septic tanks being an issue! ick).

i too went back to the historical data after i posted this and was happy to find out that in the last 10 years, i don't think there has been an advisory at grayton! that's comforting and makes me feel like this is due to the flooding. TS Debby may or may not make matters worse though....

Like the deputy said when I spoke to him as he was leaving, "They're all out now but I don't know about two minutes from now." You can't cure stupid.

I would be more worried about the water quality, especially after this storm. So many people got violently ill this pasted week all along sowal with diarrhea and vomiting plus body aches from the high concentration of animal fecal matter in the gulf. One Walton county sheriff's deputy was in the fecal position for four days from this illness. My entire family was sick and spoke to many people in Grayton with the same symptoms. I will NEVER go back into the gulf again without checking with the walton county sheriff's office to check on water quality. Luckily, most of my family became ill at the end of our vacation. :angry:

I would be more worried about the water quality, especially after this storm. So many people got violently ill this pasted week all along sowal with diarrhea and vomiting plus body aches from the high concentration of animal fecal matter in the gulf. One Walton county sheriff's deputy was in the fecal position for four days from this illness. My entire family was sick and spoke to many people in Grayton with the same symptoms. I will NEVER go back into the gulf again without checking with the walton county sheriff's office to check on water quality. Luckily, most of my family became ill at the end of our vacation. :angry:

Sorry you got sick. How many people got violently ill and what makes you think it was from the water? Where did you swim?

What is the "fecal position"?

I know of a few people who got the crud this week and not from swimming. Could also be food related?

The inlet wasn't really opening up into the Gulf. The Gulf was at high tide pouring over the sandbar into the lake. The garbage you were referring to was mostly seaweed.

Kurt,

Sorry, I meant fetal position. I had a feeling you would think this was something other than the water. Call Walton County Sheriff's department and ask them what they announced on the beach on Friday. I was there. "Do not swim in the Gulf." "High levels of animal fecal matter have been tested in the Gulf." "One of my deputies has been in the, excuse me, "FETAL POSITION," for the last 4 days. This was in Grayton beach. I spoke with numerous people on Friday and found out many were sick with the same illness and all swam in the Gulf.

Kurt,

Sorry, I meant fetal position. I had a feeling you would think this was something other than the water. Call Walton County Sheriff's department and ask them what they announced on the beach on Friday. I was there. "Do not swim in the Gulf." "High levels of animal fecal matter have been tested in the Gulf." "One of my deputies has been in the, excuse me, "FETAL POSITION," for the last 4 days. This was in Grayton beach. I spoke with numerous people on Friday and found out many were sick with the same illness and all swam in the Gulf.

I hope that if we have lots of people getting sick and the authorities know what it is from and even one of their own got sick the beaches would be closed. If the Sheriff's office was out there telling people not to swim then I would like to know that before I call and get more details.

IF water in the gulf made people sick then this is something more widespread than septic tanks. But I highly doubt it. Bacteria concentrations would have to be through the roof to make multiple people that sick.

My guess is a rapidly spreading stomach virus or food poisoning. Some bug spread at the red bar or some other local hotspots.

I don't know if the Sheriff's Office would know the source of any contamination. The Florida DOH does the beach water quality monitoring and issues advisories if contamination hits a certain level. I would suspect the Sheriff's Office was the mechanism for posting/notification of the advisories.

I read a study somewhere that when high surf suspends upper layers of organic sediment in the water it can increase bacteria counts in the Gulf (especially around the Mississippi delta). Maybe the combination of high runoff and high surf had a double whammy effect. This settles down fairly quickly when the surf drops. On the other hand, I'm sure there have been other periods of high surf and high rain without producing poor water quality result tests, so I still think this is a puzzler.

I tried calling the DOH beach water sampling office to see if I could get more info, but the number posted on their web site didn't go through to a person.

I was at the Blue Mountain beach access yesterday and a health dept sign was posted - swimming not recommended due to bacteria count. I would like to know when the next round of testing is, and when the results will be posted.

Forgot to say, the sign was down on the beach, facing towards the water, and it wasn't very large. Maybe not the best place for it - you might not notice it until you were getting out of the water.

I hope that if we have lots of people getting sick and the authorities know what it is from and even one of their own got sick the beaches would be closed. If the Sheriff's office was out there telling people not to swim then I would like to know that before I call and get more details.

Was the sheriff's office verbally telling people about the contamination? There are not enough sheriffs to sit in enough places on the beach to warn each person as s/he walks onto the beach. Plus taxpayers pay for their time. It's a waste of money. I don't like signs, but signs should be posted for something this critical.

Not everyone has Internet access or even knows what website to go to for this info. Even if phone numbers are available for beach info, how many vacationers or residents are going to call to find out the latest beach quality stats everytime they go to the beach? It's like, should everytime before we drink water in South Walton, do we need to call Regional Utilities to see if it's safe? As a former customer of Regional Utilities, I got a call last week about the boil water advisory but I was in GA (and I no longer own that home)! Rental guests didn't get that phone call from them. Hopefully the rental management company called the guests.

Just my opinion.

Hope they retest by this weekend. Would love to play in the water but will not go near it with bacteria issues.

In regards to the title of this thread, I would love to see the septic tanks go, but there is a vocal group of tank owners who seem to think having a leaky septic tank is protected by the 14th Amendment. It will never happen.

Regarding the issue of people being sick from getting in the gulf, I must say I have seen no bump in people with GI illness. If there are clusters of tourists getting gastroenteritis the odds are way more likely it is due to viral infection that spreads like wildfire among confined groups. Think norovirus outbreaks on cruise ships you hear about on the news from time to time. Something about the scenario where the water that would feed bacteria into the gulf being clean (the dune lakes) while the gulf coloform levels are high just does not make sense. I like the theory that this is a fluke due to extraordinary runoff from points west combined with conditions that favor the bacteria proliferating. We'll see, I guess.

Bent,

I did not go out to eat the entire time that I was there. The Walton county sheriff drove right behind us on Grayton beach with his loud speaker making the announcement. He would stop every few feet or so and make it again. People down by the water didn't even hear him. They actually came up and asked us what he said. I know most people do not want to believe it was from the Gulf. Believe me, I'm getting ready to build a home in Grayton, and this worries me. I do believe though that it was an isolated incident due to the heavy rains over the previous weeks. Pensacola hadn't had a deluge like that since the 1800's. Regarding the septic tank drains, I would be willing to join some type of committee to investigate and work to eliminate them completely.

I read a study somewhere that when high surf suspends upper layers of organic sediment in the water it can increase bacteria counts in the Gulf (especially around the Mississippi delta). Maybe the combination of high runoff and high surf had a double whammy effect. This settles down fairly quickly when the surf drops. On the other hand, I'm sure there have been other periods of high surf and high rain without producing poor water quality result tests, so I still think this is a puzzler.

There is also a lot of farmland to consider in that area near the Delta. I am glad you raised this.

I was sick as a dog in May in Sowal and it was definitely not from swimming in the Gulf. It was most likely viral or food poisoning. My husband had it before we left for Sowal and I got it a few days later.

Let us also not forgot to make sure we clean the beaches and leave them the way we found them since that contributes to water quality also. It's also normal to hear of water quality advisories after storms and after past hurricanes; the beaches have been closed until the water could be tested and was normal. Suspended and bedded sediments (organic and inorganic matter) get loose when you have more violent waters from storms, too.

This bacteria has a high survival rate in beach sand! Nutrients in the sand can make a perfect breeding ground! Our beaches have been polluted with dispersed oil, that has attached to sand grains, been moved by sea and wind up the beach and was deposited in a thick sedimentary layer below the surface. First the large trucks disturbed this layer, Then wave action. So don't be so quick to let BP off the hook. This enterococci bateria can live without feces.

Latest results from 6/25 sampling are posted:

http://esetappsdoh.doh.state.fl.us/irm00beachwater/beachresults.aspx?county=Walton

Last week every area except Holley had an advisory issued and this week every area except Holley is okay? Something weird is going on.

Just an opinion - When the coastal dune lakes break open there will be a great deal of lake water flowing into the gulf - I know from living on Eastern Lake, many residents still have septic tanks and with all the rain over the last few weeks the ground is saturated. I am not a scientist by any means but when you have the amount of rain and the lakes draining into the gulf, this has to contribute to the bacteria levels being measured. If you walk behind One Seagrove Place, there is a major drainage pipe that flows water from 30A into the gulf as well. How that was approved is beyond me..

Is the Eastern Lake outlet currently open to the gulf?

Just an opinion - When the coastal dune lakes break open there will be a great deal of lake water flowing into the gulf - I know from living on Eastern Lake, many residents still have septic tanks and with all the rain over the last few weeks the ground is saturated. I am not a scientist by any means but when you have the amount of rain and the lakes draining into the gulf, this has to contribute to the bacteria levels being measured. If you walk behind One Seagrove Place, there is a major drainage pipe that flows water from 30A into the gulf as well. How that was approved is beyond me..

That pipe drains wetlands north of Cassine Gardens, not sewer. So it is basically the same as a lake outflow, although there may be some parking lot, lawn, and road runoff at times mixed in.

You are right about septic tanks on lakes, but we've never seen levels bad enough to cause sickness described earlier in this thread. I am for the removal of them.

I have seen outflows stagnant for months with so much growing in them that I wouldn't put a toe in. Scary stuff after several months of summer heat and thousands of baby loads, and various dead animals in there. Good thing it's not too common.

WALTON COUNTY WEEKLY BEACH SAMPLING RESULTS
Walton County Saltwater Beach Monitoring Results


Walton County - The Walton County Health Department conducts regularly scheduled saltwater beach water quality monitoring at seven sites through the Healthy Beaches Monitoring Program. The water samples are being analyzed for enteric bacteria (enterococci) that normally inhabit the intestinal tract of humans and animals, which may cause human disease, infections, or rashes. The presence of enteric bacteria is an indication of fecal pollution, which may come from stormwater runoff, pets and wildlife, and human sewage. The purpose of the Healthy Beaches Monitoring Program is to determine whether Florida has significant coastal beach water quality problems and whether future beach monitoring efforts are necessary.


[TABLE="width: 546"]
[TR]
[TD]Site
[/TD]
[TD]Name
[/TD]
[TD]Enterococci
[/TD]
[TD]Water Quality
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]SP-1
[/TD]
[TD]Miramar Beach
[/TD]
[TD]12
[/TD]
[TD]Good
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]SP-3
[/TD]
[TD]Dune Allen Beach
[/TD]
[TD]88
[/TD]
[TD]Moderate
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]SP-4
[/TD]
[TD]Blue Mountain Beach
[/TD]
[TD]44
[/TD]
[TD]Moderate
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]SP-5
[/TD]
[TD]Grayton Beach
[/TD]
[TD]56
[/TD]
[TD]Moderate
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]SP-7
[/TD]
[TD]Holly Street Beach
[/TD]
[TD]504
[/TD]
[TD]Poor
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]SP-8
[/TD]
[TD]Eastern Lake Beach
[/TD]
[TD]224
[/TD]
[TD]Poor
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]SP-9
[/TD]
[TD]Inlet Beach Access
[/TD]
[TD]64
[/TD]
[TD]Moderate
[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]


Water quality classifications are based upon United States Environmental Protection Agency’s (EPA’s) recommended criteria and Florida Healthy Beaches Program Categories:
Good = 0 - 35 Enterococci per 100 ml of marine
Moderate = 36 - 104 Enterococci per 100 ml of marine water
Poor = greater than 105 Enterococci per 100 ml of marine water


Health Advisories have been issued for the Holly Street Beach Access and the Eastern Lake Beach Access based on the enterococci standard recommended by the EPA. This should be considered a potential health risk to the bathing public.


The Health Advisories for Miramar Beach Access, Blue Mountain Beach Access, Grayton Beach Access, and Inlet Beach Access have been lifted.


If you should have any questions, please contact the Walton County Health Department of (850) 892-8021, or visit the Department of Health’s internet Beach Water Quality website (www.doh.state.fl.us, click on “Floridians and Visitors” – under “food, Water, Air, Land,” choose “Beach Water Quality.”