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DuneLaker

Beach Fanatic

Saltwater has been inflowing over the past several years, regardless of what you might have read or heard otherwise.  There is a good inflow today.  The inappropriate and tax money wasting opening that the county did last week with a large piece of machinery and public works personnel is being redone by nature.  We should let nature decide the water level and opening.  We should especially not let a person who built in a lower level room around original pilings complain about the lake level!

TreeFrog

[quote="DuneLaker, post: 460883"]Saltwater has been inflowing over the past several years, regardless of what you might have read or heard otherwise.  There is a good inflow today.  The inappropriate and tax money wasting opening that the county did last week with a large piece of machinery and public works personnel is being redone by nature.  We should let nature decide the water level and opening.  We should especially not let a person who built in a lower level room around original pilings complain about the lake level![/QUOTE]

D#@n. 

I was out of town last week, and thought the lake opened by itself.  The storm has completely changed the new outlet they dug.

Did they open it because of a lake resident complaining?  If so, that's not right.  IMHO, if you live on a lake, build a dock on a lake, it's just like buying next to the airport.  No complaining about the lake/airport.  It was there before you bought/built/remodeled.

<blockquote class="xfBb-quote" data-name="DuneLaker">Saltwater has been inflowing over the past several years, regardless of what you might have read or heard otherwise. There is a good inflow today. The inappropriate and tax money wasting opening that the county did last week with a large piece of machinery and public works personnel is being redone by nature. We should let nature decide the water level and opening. We should especially not let a person who built in a lower level room around original pilings complain about the lake level!</blockquote> 
D#@n. 
 
I was out of town last week, and thought the lake opened by itself. The storm has completely changed the new outlet they dug. 
 
Did they open it because of a lake resident complaining? If so, that&#039;s not right. IMHO, if you live on a lake, build a dock on a lake, it&#039;s just like buying next to the airport. No complaining about the lake/airport. It was there before you bought/built/remodeled.

Matt J

SWGB

[quote="TreeFrog, post: 461053"]D#@n. 
 
I was out of town last week, and thought the lake opened by itself. The storm has completely changed the new outlet they dug.
 
Did they open it because of a lake resident complaining? If so, that's not right. IMHO, if you live on a lake, build a dock on a lake, it's just like buying next to the airport. No complaining about the lake/airport. It was there before you bought/built/remodeled.[/quote]
 
Well, if you built on what is obviously a flood plain to begin with I don't think Mensa is gonna be calling anytime soon.  ;-)

<blockquote class="xfBb-quote" data-name="TreeFrog">D#@n. 
 
I was out of town last week, and thought the lake opened by itself. The storm has completely changed the new outlet they dug. 
 
Did they open it because of a lake resident complaining? If so, that&#039;s not right. IMHO, if you live on a lake, build a dock on a lake, it&#039;s just like buying next to the airport. No complaining about the lake/airport. It was there before you bought/built/remodeled.</blockquote> 
Well, if you built on what is obviously a flood plain to begin with I don&#039;t think Mensa is gonna be calling anytime soon. ;-)

Sorry you were disappointed, Treefrog.  I was too.  It was so close to a natural opening.  And, you got that right, SWGB.

[quote="DuneLaker, post: 461076"]Sorry you were disappointed, Treefrog.  I was too.  It was so close to a natural opening.  And, you got that right, SWGB.[/QUOTE]

I've been here almost 4 years now, and it seems every time I think it's opened on its own, I later find out that either some jerk or the county opened it.

So, now it's full again.  :clap:  As of about 15 minutes ago, the waves have pretty much quit washing into it and are now building up the sand dam, instead.  

And the gulls and sanderlings are patiently milling around waiting for the people playing in the outfall to leave, so they can peck around for a little bit of the bounty that has been washed up for them.

<blockquote class="xfBb-quote" data-name="DuneLaker">Sorry you were disappointed, Treefrog. I was too. It was so close to a natural opening. And, you got that right, SWGB.</blockquote> 
I&#039;ve been here almost 4 years now, and it seems every time I think it&#039;s opened on its own, I later find out that either some jerk or the county opened it. 
 
So, now it&#039;s full again. :clap: As of about 15 minutes ago, the waves have pretty much quit washing into it and are now building up the sand dam, instead. 
 
And the gulls and sanderlings are patiently milling around waiting for the people playing in the outfall to leave, so they can peck around for a little bit of the bounty that has been washed up for them.

cheesehead

Beach Lover

Yeah! About time. hope the guy on the beach doesn't bring in more sand and plug the lake back up.:wave:

Yeah! About time. hope the guy on the beach doesn&#039;t bring in more sand and plug the lake back up.:wave:

A lot of the sand that has plugged up the lake over the years is not from the guy so many have used as a poster boy of blame over the last year or two.   Not defending what he did, but impact was minimal in comparison to other factors.   Some sand has been from previous storms, some has been from the guy to the west and his non-native landscaping, a lot was when the county dug a huge channel and dumped tons of sand that DEP eventually made the county remove.  A lot is from poor openings caused by the group that went out at midnight and illegally and relentlessly dug the lake out.  So much false information has been repeated in many outlets.  It would take a month of Sundays to go over the timeline and all the evidence even the last 10 years to fully vet this issue.  But, from this point forward, leave the water level and the lake alone.  It could be debated that if the county had not done the improper opening that it did last week, that we would have had a terrific opening last night and today.  As it is, nature has erased the county's work demanded by a few, but the opening is not as good as it could have been.

A lot of the sand that has plugged up the lake over the years is not from the guy so many have used as a poster boy of blame over the last year or two.   Not defending what he did, but impact was minimal in comparison to other factors.   Some sand has been from previous storms, some has been from the guy to the west and his non-native landscaping, a lot was when the county dug a huge channel and dumped tons of sand that DEP eventually made the county remove.  A lot is from poor openings caused by the group that went out at midnight and illegally and relentlessly dug the lake out.  So much false information has been repeated in many outlets.  It would take a month of Sundays to go over the timeline and all the evidence even the last 10 years to fully vet this issue.  But, from this point forward, leave the water level and the lake alone.  It could be debated that if the county had not done the improper opening that it did last week, that we would have had a terrific opening last night and today.  As it is, nature has erased the county&#039;s work demanded by a few, but the opening is not as good as it could have been.

[quote="DuneLaker, post: 461287"]As it is, nature has erased the county's work demanded by a few, but the opening is not as good as it could have been.[/QUOTE]

Who do they call at the county to request that the lake be opened?
How is this reconciled with the dune lake management study?
How do we find out that someone has requested to open the lake?
Is there an evaluation process for their request?  An open meeting?

<blockquote class="xfBb-quote" data-name="DuneLaker">As it is, nature has erased the county&#039;s work demanded by a few, but the opening is not as good as it could have been.</blockquote> 
Who do they call at the county to request that the lake be opened? 
How is this reconciled with the dune lake management study? 
How do we find out that someone has requested to open the lake? 
Is there an evaluation process for their request? An open meeting?

Who do they call at the county to request that the lake be opened?
How is this reconciled with the dune lake management study?
How do we find out that someone has requested to open the lake?
Is there an evaluation process for their request? An open meeting?[/quote]
 
 
1) As far as I know, "they" can call any number of people. In this most recent case, I am aware that at least public works was involved. Others could have been involved. An investigation would need to be made to determine other influence. 2) At the Coastal Dune Lake Advisory Board meeting last Thursday, some board members stated that they were displeased about this inappropriate opening and dismayed that it had occurred when progress was being made with the dune lake management study. 3) I don't know, but there sure seems to be a need for advance notice and public warning. With Florida's open meeting laws, I would guess any number of records could be requested from county offices as well as related state offices. 4) An open meeting, that is a great idea. I do not believe that it occurs at this time.  There is some sort of evaluation process for a request.  It is my understanding that this process failed during this opening.  Official trigger point among other details were not implemented.

Who do they call at the county to request that the lake be opened? 
How is this reconciled with the dune lake management study? 
How do we find out that someone has requested to open the lake? 
Is there an evaluation process for their request? An open meeting?[/quote] 
 
 
1) As far as I know, &quot;they&quot; can call any number of people. In this most recent case, I am aware that at least public works was involved. Others could have been involved. An investigation would need to be made to determine other influence. 2) At the Coastal Dune Lake Advisory Board meeting last Thursday, some board members stated that they were displeased about this inappropriate opening and dismayed that it had occurred when progress was being made with the dune lake management study. 3) I don&#039;t know, but there sure seems to be a need for advance notice and public warning. With Florida&#039;s open meeting laws, I would guess any number of records could be requested from county offices as well as related state offices. 4) An open meeting, that is a great idea. I do not believe that it occurs at this time. There is some sort of evaluation process for a request. It is my understanding that this process failed during this opening. Official trigger point among other details were not implemented.

I really wanted to attend Thursday's meeting, but I was just too far away...

It seems to me that opening a lake should take more than just a phone call to someone at one of the county departments.  That's rather casual, to my view...

I really wanted to attend Thursday&#039;s meeting, but I was just too far away... 
 
It seems to me that opening a lake should take more than just a phone call to someone at one of the county departments. That&#039;s rather casual, to my view...

heathernken

[b]its about time[/b]

In response to Dunelaker, there has not been any similar significant inflow in he past year since I have been here full time. It is ridiculous that the county continues to monkey with the outflow and that there are people running around claiming that the lake is dead, however it has been nearly devoid of salt water creatures for some time. Seems to me that if the meddlers would just put up with the high levels and just wait til it breaks through on it's own, the force would dig a deeper channel on its own and it would get us closer to the lake resuming its tidal ways after draining. Now we have some real salt water and I am hoping to see the salt water grasses that are nearly dead in my yard returning and I wont miss the weeds either. It also seems to me that to claim that these problems we have seen since 2005 are from that guy dumping the sand are crazy. Remember all of the dunes in front of the houses one the beach before Dennis? I submit that the sand from those missing dunes did not just wash away but was spread over the entire beach, raising the overall beach elevation, changing the outfall. I'm quite certain something similar has happened before and is quite natural- just hasn't happened since people have lived here, which isn't very long in the big scheme of things. One more observation- Although I hate that the meddlers get their way, I think that isfthe lake was full last night rather than empty, it would not be full of salt water right now as the surge would have had nowhere to go. I certainly don't thing the county planned it that way though- just luck I'd say.

its about time 
 
In response to Dunelaker, there has not been any similar significant inflow in he past year since I have been here full time. It is ridiculous that the county continues to monkey with the outflow and that there are people running around claiming that the lake is dead, however it has been nearly devoid of salt water creatures for some time. Seems to me that if the meddlers would just put up with the high levels and just wait til it breaks through on it&#039;s own, the force would dig a deeper channel on its own and it would get us closer to the lake resuming its tidal ways after draining. Now we have some real salt water and I am hoping to see the salt water grasses that are nearly dead in my yard returning and I wont miss the weeds either. It also seems to me that to claim that these problems we have seen since 2005 are from that guy dumping the sand are crazy. Remember all of the dunes in front of the houses one the beach before Dennis? I submit that the sand from those missing dunes did not just wash away but was spread over the entire beach, raising the overall beach elevation, changing the outfall. I&#039;m quite certain something similar has happened before and is quite natural- just hasn&#039;t happened since people have lived here, which isn&#039;t very long in the big scheme of things. One more observation- Although I hate that the meddlers get their way, I think that isfthe lake was full last night rather than empty, it would not be full of salt water right now as the surge would have had nowhere to go. I certainly don&#039;t thing the county planned it that way though- just luck I&#039;d say.

I haven't seen the outfalls from all the lakes, only Western, Eastern, Deer, and Camp Creek.  But of those four, only Eastern has a broad and straight pool.  The rest are narrow and meandering, like a creek.  I've seen older aerial photos that show a similar outfall from Eastern.  I'm assuming the change is from the major dig-out that Dunelaker refers to.

Since Gustav washed so much sand into the Eastern Lake outfall, it seems possible that it could evolve back into a narrow and meandering outfall, if left alone.

I haven&#039;t seen the outfalls from all the lakes, only Western, Eastern, Deer, and Camp Creek. But of those four, only Eastern has a broad and straight pool. The rest are narrow and meandering, like a creek. I&#039;ve seen older aerial photos that show a similar outfall from Eastern. I&#039;m assuming the change is from the major dig-out that Dunelaker refers to. 
 
Since Gustav washed so much sand into the Eastern Lake outfall, it seems possible that it could evolve back into a narrow and meandering outfall, if left alone.

HeathernKen, While we didn't have a hurricane last year, there were a number of openings last year and inflow was documented.  Welcome to Eastern Lake.  I or my family has had a home here over 50 years.  I agree with a number of your statements.  I was also here for a number of hurricanes and tropical storms, including Hurricane Ivan.  If you watched my video of Ivan coming into Eastern Lake, you would see for yourself the inflow of surge.  Will have to have a program one day or get help with posting videos.  My earliest photo of Eastern Lake that I have handy is from 1930 and I have one of outfall about 1945.  In the meantime, good article in Northwest Florida Daily News today on positive progress being made on management plan for Coastal Dune Lakes.  We do need to address the process of opening.  The trigger point issue is very flawed, IMO.  Way too low and perhaps should not exist at all.  Certainly should not be based on someone's dock or room built in a flood plain.  Thanks for your interest.

HeathernKen, While we didn&#039;t have a hurricane last year, there were a number of openings last year and inflow was documented.  Welcome to Eastern Lake.  I or my family has had a home here over 50 years.  I agree with a number of your statements.  I was also here for a number of hurricanes and tropical storms, including Hurricane Ivan.  If you watched my video of Ivan coming into Eastern Lake, you would see for yourself the inflow of surge.  Will have to have a program one day or get help with posting videos.  My earliest photo of Eastern Lake that I have handy is from 1930 and I have one of outfall about 1945.  In the meantime, good article in Northwest Florida Daily News today on positive progress being made on management plan for Coastal Dune Lakes.  We do need to address the process of opening.  The trigger point issue is very flawed, IMO.  Way too low and perhaps should not exist at all.  Certainly should not be based on someone&#039;s dock or room built in a flood plain.  Thanks for your interest.

[b]Do you know...[/b]

Are these meetings that you mentioned in your earlier post open to the public? I would like to get involved in this process. I feel strongly that the continual intervention by the county is detrimental to the lake and my property. I believe that if left alone perhaps the outfall would be back to its pre dennis self. Their intervention prolongs these high lake levels and exacerbates the problem. So everyone has been crying cause there has been very little salt water in the lake. Now its full of salt water, the outfall has closed and the level is very high and many dock are underwater again. Are they going to open it again without telling anyone and let out the salt water we have been wanting for so long? They need to leave it alone.

Do you know... 
 
Are these meetings that you mentioned in your earlier post open to the public? I would like to get involved in this process. I feel strongly that the continual intervention by the county is detrimental to the lake and my property. I believe that if left alone perhaps the outfall would be back to its pre dennis self. Their intervention prolongs these high lake levels and exacerbates the problem. So everyone has been crying cause there has been very little salt water in the lake. Now its full of salt water, the outfall has closed and the level is very high and many dock are underwater again. Are they going to open it again without telling anyone and let out the salt water we have been wanting for so long? They need to leave it alone.

[b]Volunteering for Coastal Dune Lakes[/b]

The meetings of the Coastal Dune Lake Advisory Board of Walton County are open. I don't have their schedule, but you could contact Julie Terrell, Director, of the Choctawhatchee Basin Alliance (CBA), at 850-729-6456, and she might get it for you. CBA works with LakeWatch that monitors the dune lakes and helped convene the recent Coastal Dune Lake Management Plan meeting along with this board. Her email address is [EMAIL="terrellj@owc.edu"]terrellj@owc.edu[/EMAIL] They are always looking for participants, volunteers and donations.  Walton County Code Enforcement is 622-0000.  They might direct you to issues and meetings.

Volunteering for Coastal Dune Lakes 
 
The meetings of the Coastal Dune Lake Advisory Board of Walton County are open. I don&#039;t have their schedule, but you could contact Julie Terrell, Director, of the Choctawhatchee Basin Alliance (CBA), at 850-729-6456, and she might get it for you. CBA works with LakeWatch that monitors the dune lakes and helped convene the recent Coastal Dune Lake Management Plan meeting along with this board. Her email address is <a href="mailto:terrellj@owc.edu">terrellj@owc.edu</a> They are always looking for participants, volunteers and donations. Walton County Code Enforcement is 622-0000. They might direct you to issues and meetings.

I suspect HeathernKen will be happy to participate in Dune Lake Advisory Board meetings, as those meetings are moving toward a long-term solution (having been to a couple myself).  But it is the Dune Lake "Advisory" Board, and it appears to me that one or more county agencies actually control whether or when the county will dig out the opening.

In the short term, what we need is a way to try to prevent the short-cutting of due process and/or open review that DuneLaker seems to imply happened in the most recent opening.

Is that Code Enforcement or someone else?

I suspect HeathernKen will be happy to participate in Dune Lake Advisory Board meetings, as those meetings are moving toward a long-term solution (having been to a couple myself). But it is the Dune Lake &quot;Advisory&quot; Board, and it appears to me that one or more county agencies actually control whether or when the county will dig out the opening. 
 
In the short term, what we need is a way to try to prevent the short-cutting of due process and/or open review that DuneLaker seems to imply happened in the most recent opening. 
 
Is that Code Enforcement or someone else?

One of the items to come out of the Dune Lake Management meeting was that we should work more closely with our legislative delegation for a number of reasons. I would suggest calling, writing and visiting with our state senator, Senator Don Gaetz and our state representative for SoWal, Representative Marti Coley. Walton County also has Representative Don Brown as a state representative (he's term limited, so new rep after Nov.) All of the Northwest Florida delegation should be interested in the well being of the Coastal Dune Lakes, from both an environmental and economic standpoint. Other points of contact might also be the DEP and the Army Corps of Engineers. As a navigatable waterway, the outfalls can and often do fall under the jurisdiction of the Corps. The water in the lakes is in most cases, state property. If the county doesn't seem to be following proper procedures, then perhaps assistance can be supplied by other avenues. Regardless, we need to meet, inform and coordinate with our local state legislative delegation. They can often assist with communication with regulatory state agencies and may provide funding when the priority is explained.

One of the items to come out of the Dune Lake Management meeting was that we should work more closely with our legislative delegation for a number of reasons. I would suggest calling, writing and visiting with our state senator, Senator Don Gaetz and our state representative for SoWal, Representative Marti Coley. Walton County also has Representative Don Brown as a state representative (he&#039;s term limited, so new rep after Nov.) All of the Northwest Florida delegation should be interested in the well being of the Coastal Dune Lakes, from both an environmental and economic standpoint. Other points of contact might also be the DEP and the Army Corps of Engineers. As a navigatable waterway, the outfalls can and often do fall under the jurisdiction of the Corps. The water in the lakes is in most cases, state property. If the county doesn&#039;t seem to be following proper procedures, then perhaps assistance can be supplied by other avenues. Regardless, we need to meet, inform and coordinate with our local state legislative delegation. They can often assist with communication with regulatory state agencies and may provide funding when the priority is explained.

The lake outfall is shallow now, only a few inches.  All this week, now that the Labor Day crowd is gone, there has been green heron feeding in there each morning.  Today, it was joined by a blue heron.  Sorry, no pics - my little pocket camera doesn't zoom enough and I knew I'd scare them away if I got close enough for a photo.

The lake outfall is shallow now, only a few inches.  All this week, now that the Labor Day crowd is gone, there has been green heron feeding in there each morning.  Today, it was joined by a blue heron.  Sorry, no pics - my little pocket camera doesn&#039;t zoom enough and I knew I&#039;d scare them away if I got close enough for a photo.

Here we go again.

It's going into the lake strongly now, and the Ike waves aren't yet at their predicted peak.

Here we go again. 
 
It&#039;s going into the lake strongly now, and the Ike waves aren&#039;t yet at their predicted peak.

Woke up this AM to about 3 feet more water in the lake than last night. YEAHHH!!! Salt water has finally returned. Hopefully the outfall will continue to allow salt water back in. High tide is a 2PM so we have a ways to go. Dock will likely be under water by then.:lolabove:

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