the playground at the village of baytowne wharf has a rubber tire mulch as ground cover instead of sand, dirt, or child safe rubber flooring (as at Destin Commons).
the signs indicate that the playground is unsafe from the hours of 9am - 6pm, because the tires are EXTREMELY HOT.
those signs are true, even adult feet couldn't bear the burn if they touch the rubber mulch!
but when exactly do they think children play?
in addition, there are other concerns about using rubber tire mulch in any residential area, let alone around children who are more vulnerable to some of the byproducts of using this toxic petroleum waste.
because the playground is positioned in an area that has little or no shade and it is in an environment that is very hot most days the rubber begins to burn. this is very dangerous for many reasons:
1) if you touch the rubber in the heat of the day, you will notice an orangish residue on your fingers. this is what happens when the rubber is heated petroleum byproduct begins to emit from the rubber
2) because it is a petroleum based product the area is an EXTREME fire hazard. i think of that often when i see parents or patrons of mangos smoking nearby. if a fire were to start at the entry of the playground, it would be difficult to get to the children in the middle or back of the playground quickly as the playground is surrounded by this highly flammable rubber tire material.
3) while burning tires emits extreme toxic fumes, having them sit out in the heat of the sun all day creates the same issue. even if you aren't aware of it as an adult, a child's immune system is much more delicate and vulnerable than yours. fumes from tires are a known carcinogen.
4) when children fall on this ground cover it has been established that many children get dermatitis or other mild or severe reactions from contact with these rubber tires. so while it might prevent the child from getting a bruise or breaking a bone, it may cause other injuries related to the skin or lungs.
so my question is, since it's too dangerous to play on the playground during times when children might be awake and the rubber could endanger the safety of children and even make them sick.
why on earth is this being used as a ground cover at sandestin's public children playground? and do other parents understand the dangers of this kind of material?
Replies
67
SoWal Expert
Where is this playground? I want to experience it firsthand.Let's go check it out.
Skunky
Let's go check it out.
We are headed that way for lunch...do you know roughly where the playground is?
Admin
Johnny Sketch & The Dirty Notes, July 11
Johnny Sketch and the Dirty Notes is simply a funky rock band from New Orleans. Classically trained and schooled in making the house ROCK! From a calm, funky groove to a full blown frenzy at the drop of a hat. JSDN rocks the house, every time, all the time.
http://www.baytownewharf.com/events.asp
Johnny Sketch and the Dirty Notes is simply a funky rock band from New Orleans. Classically trained and schooled in making the house ROCK! From a calm, funky groove to a full blown frenzy at the drop of a hat. JSDN rocks the house, every time, all the time.
http://www.baytownewharf.com/events.asp
SoWal Expert
We are headed that way for lunch...do you know roughly where the playground is?I have no idea and have other plans for lunch.
Maybe it is in Baytown, behind the tennis center.???Edited
Admin
I believe it's this one, bear left at the bandshell:
Adventure Landing
Swings that reach the clouds, winding paths and mazes that lead to unknown places, bridges and slides with water to splash in - a playground beyond your wildest dreams has been completed at The Village of Baytowne Wharf at Sandestin. With the imagination and support of locals, children from Butler and Destin Elementary Schools, as well as Playground Specialists from Leathers & Associates, Adventure Landing at Baytowne Wharf is the fulfillment of drawings and dreams of local children. Located across from Mangos Paradise Grille in The Village of Baytowne Wharf.
I believe the one below has cypress mulch:
Jolee Island
Create your own nature escape on the rustic five-acre Jolee Island Nature Park. Just a hop-skip-and-a-jump from the Baytowne Marina, enter by strolling along a wooden footbridge over a scenic salt marsh. A mile-long perimeter trail is dotted with weather-beaten, double-wide porch swings, where you can sit and watch the waters of Horseshoe Bayou lap up against the shore or catch an amazing sunset over Choctawhatchee Bay. Kids enjoy the pirate ship-shaped playground and look-out tower overlooking the island's pines and magnolias while parents stroll the perimeter and relax on an occasional porch swing.
Adventure Landing
Swings that reach the clouds, winding paths and mazes that lead to unknown places, bridges and slides with water to splash in - a playground beyond your wildest dreams has been completed at The Village of Baytowne Wharf at Sandestin. With the imagination and support of locals, children from Butler and Destin Elementary Schools, as well as Playground Specialists from Leathers & Associates, Adventure Landing at Baytowne Wharf is the fulfillment of drawings and dreams of local children. Located across from Mangos Paradise Grille in The Village of Baytowne Wharf.
I believe the one below has cypress mulch:
Jolee Island
Create your own nature escape on the rustic five-acre Jolee Island Nature Park. Just a hop-skip-and-a-jump from the Baytowne Marina, enter by strolling along a wooden footbridge over a scenic salt marsh. A mile-long perimeter trail is dotted with weather-beaten, double-wide porch swings, where you can sit and watch the waters of Horseshoe Bayou lap up against the shore or catch an amazing sunset over Choctawhatchee Bay. Kids enjoy the pirate ship-shaped playground and look-out tower overlooking the island's pines and magnolias while parents stroll the perimeter and relax on an occasional porch swing.
Beach Fanatic
Dr. Skunky, perhaps it is a public health issue? Glad you are checking it out so our little peeps can be safe.
Admin
Builder - Leathers & Associates
Their supplier:
http://www.groundscapekids.com/inFAQt/default.php?c=4
Their supplier:
http://www.groundscapekids.com/inFAQt/default.php?c=4
Reduce your ownership cost 70% over the next 8 years
20% Less expensive than wood engineered systems
Q: Can?t I just buy black tire rubber?
A: No. Black tire rubber is dirty (has grind residue), retains heat (enough to limit playtime on hot days) and has a chalk residue because UV rays are breaking down the rubber. GroundScape Kids is clean, dissipates heat better (based on color) and in UV stable.
Q: Does GroundScape Kids smell?
A: No. You may notice a minimal odor at time of installation, but the odor disappears quickly after installation.
Q: Does GroundScape Kids Attract animals?
A: No. The texture of the product has proven to be disliked by animals and rodents. Therefore, animals will not nest, root or defecate in the product.
SoWal Expert
Thats funny. I wouldn't think that rats and squirrels like the texture of the wiring of my sparkplug wires and wiring to my tail lights either, but they seem to love both. Therefore I call 
on that last FAQ.
on that last FAQ.Edited
Beach Lover
the playground at the village of baytowne wharf has a rubber tire mulch as ground cover instead of sand, dirt, or child safe rubber flooring (as at Destin Commons).
the signs indicate that the playground is unsafe from the hours of 9am - 6pm, because the tires are EXTREMELY HOT.
those signs are true, even adult feet couldn't bear the burn if they touch the rubber mulch!
but when exactly do they think children play?
in addition, there are other concerns about using rubber tire mulch in any residential area, let alone around children who are more vulnerable to some of the byproducts of using this toxic petroleum waste.
because the playground is positioned in an area that has little or no shade and it is in an environment that is very hot most days the rubber begins to burn. this is very dangerous for many reasons:
1) if you touch the rubber in the heat of the day, you will notice an orangish residue on your fingers. this is what happens when the rubber is heated petroleum byproduct begins to emit from the rubber
2) because it is a petroleum based product the area is an EXTREME fire hazard. i think of that often when i see parents or patrons of mangos smoking nearby. if a fire were to start at the entry of the playground, it would be difficult to get to the children in the middle or back of the playground quickly as the playground is surrounded by this highly flammable rubber tire material.
3) while burning tires emits extreme toxic fumes, having them sit out in the heat of the sun all day creates the same issue. even if you aren't aware of it as an adult, a child's immune system is much more delicate and vulnerable than yours. fumes from tires are a known carcinogen.
4) when children fall on this ground cover it has been established that many children get dermatitis or other mild or severe reactions from contact with these rubber tires. so while it might prevent the child from getting a bruise or breaking a bone, it may cause other injuries related to the skin or lungs.
so my question is, since it's too dangerous to play on the playground during times when children might be awake and the rubber could endanger the safety of children and even make them sick.
why on earth is this being used as a ground cover at sandestin's public children playground? and do other parents understand the dangers of this kind of material?
I took my 2 yr old grandson there on July 4th....it was so HOT that I hardly stand it, not to mention the SMELL was horrible! I had to drag my grandson off screaming cause he wanted to play, but I knew that it was not a safe enviroment. Hopefully this will be addressed by the persons in charge.
Thanks for posting!
Beach Lover
I remember when we played on playgrounds that were covered in gravel! Man, my knees were always bleeding.
Beach Comber
I take my kids there all the time and have never noticed the heat.
I have noticed the sign and figured it was there to advise caution on the heat of the slides etc.
Maybe Raven can call Baytowne Wharf and get to the bottom of it.
I have noticed the sign and figured it was there to advise caution on the heat of the slides etc.
Maybe Raven can call Baytowne Wharf and get to the bottom of it.
Beach Lover
We are headed that way for lunch...do you know roughly where the playground is?
It is next to MANGO's. Please check it out and let's do someting to get it changed!
Skunky
So here is the deal. I went and scoped it out today, I guess about 2PM...no clouds, beams of pure Florida sunshine raining down upon the dread tire bits. Now, I must say, as you approach the play area, you notice an incease in ambient temperature (maybe 5-10 degrees) due to the heat retention of the shredded tires. I walked into the middle of the area (there is a faux wood walkway), took my shoes off and took one for the team. The tires were hot alright, not a killer, but certainly not comfortable...akin to beach sand that is a bit warmer than you might like. I scooped up a handful of the tires;they seemed clean for the most part, they were not oily, sooty or anything like that. I clenched a fistfull of the stuff and it didn't dirty my hand much. I noted a rubber smell like a garden hose on a warm day, but there was no overpowering stench, eye/nasal irritation. I should mention there is a moderate amount of shaded space to the play area, but the majority of the playground equipment is in the sun. There is also a misting station in the shade. Two little kids rushed up on the scene and were about to plunge shoeless into the tires but were stopped by Rapunzy. My opinion is that they really should have found a better soft surface to lay down, but it isn't dangerous per se; I wouldn't advise a small child run in it for more than a few minutes on a hot day.
BannedAuthor
I wouldn't advise a small child run in it for more than a few minutes on a hot day.
that's really all you need to say. because given that recommendation why would you use tire mulch for a playground? who else do you think is going to that playground? and, most importantly, would you allow your own child to play in it? we may disagree on the specifics of this material, but it's clear we agree that small children&hotdays&rubbertiremulch are not a good idea. and that is the combination you get with that ground cover being used for children's playground at a beach resort in the south.
as for reaching out to sandestin, this along with a few other safety and enjoyment measures on behalf of children (stagnant pools with mosquito breeding; errant golf balls hitting children; no lifeguards at pools & beaches; yield signs pointed toward bikers instead of toward traffic; etc) have been presented to a variety of folks at sandestin by myself and other friends of ours to personnel from security, the SOA president and the VP of resort activities. the response to any recommendation is ALWAYS "maybe it's a problem, but it's not our problem and nobody else is complaining."
i understand they are pretending to "market" to families now (ie. lots of pictures of kids in their promotional material), but well-educated and experienced business people know that marketing is not a slogan it's how you build and run your business. this is not business that has children or families in mind. ie. their new website which lists: drinking coffee, getting your hair bleached and drinking at a bar as fun activities for "sandestin teens". after expressing my concern to intrawest about this outrageous promotional text given problems with underage drinking in the village, i was told that was sandestin's perogative.
BannedAuthor
Another example of how we in America are a symptom solver and not a problem solver. The signs are probably erected to reduce liabilty.LOVE IT! symptom solvers not problem solvers!
"Well, mam, we posted a sign saying that the tires are hot. Now why did you let your kid play on the playground, knowing that the tires were hot? We warned you."
The interesting part is that IMO, they are exposing themselves to greater risk because posting the signs, informs us that Sandestin is aware of the problem, yet they still allow the playground to remain open, even though there is potential danger.
I recall a case where a thief won a bunch of money, after jumping a fence surrounding a property. The fence had many signs, warning would-be thieves of the danger of the guard dog. The thief was attacked and badly wounded by the dog, which in court, was proven to be purchased for the sole purpose of attacking thieves. The thief won based on the fact that the owner had posted the signs, basically admitting that the owner intentionally put the attack dog on the property to destroy any tresspassers. Had the owner not posted the signs, warning of the attack dog, it is likely that the thief would have walked away injured, and without substantial award from the jury because it would have been difficult to prove that the owner was aware that the dog was a vicious attack dog.
that requires not only intellect, but concern for one's neighbor. i have failed to see sandestin express through its actions any concern for residents or visitors. so to them...these safety issues are not problems. in their minds, the problem is that people are complaining! a sign doesn't solve the problem of hurt kids or an unsafe playground, and, like you said, it doesn't even protect them legally, but they aren't interested in any of the above. the symptom they wish to alleviate is residents or guests talking to them or asking them to do something.
the "beware of dog" anecdote is a PERFECT example of how that kind of thing plays out in court!
Beach Fanatic
Does anyone know a good lawyer? We need to file an injunction to prevent children from playing at Sandestin. It's scary dangerous over there.
SoWal Expert
Now, I must say, as you approach the play area, you notice an incease in ambient temperature (maybe 5-10 degrees) due to the heat retention of the shredded tires.
Interesting observation. So on a hot August day when air temp reaches 98F degrees, the ambient temp around the play area may be around 108F degrees. Can you say heat stroke?
BannedAuthor
Interesting observation. So on a hot August day when air temp reaches 98F degrees, the ambient temp around the play area may be around 108F degrees. Can you say heat stroke?
sandestin doesn't have the same breezes so the area where the playground is located is frequently VERY hot and it doesn't even need to be august to reach those temps! mangos used to have fans with water spray to keep the area cool and kids would go there to cool down, but they removed those. in addition, several more trees in the area have been removed, creating a more arid environment.
Edited
Beach Comber
sandestin doesn't have the same breezes so the area where the playground is located is frequently VERY hot and it doesn't even need to be august to reach those temps! mangos used to have fans with water spray to keep the area cool and kids would go there to cool down, but they removed those. in addition, several more trees in the area have been removed, creating a more arid environment.
Would it be fair to say that you do not like living in Sandestin?
SoWal Insider
i understand they are pretending to "market" to families now (ie. lots of pictures of kids in their promotional material), but well-educated and experienced business people know that marketing is not a slogan it's how you build and run your business. this is not business that has children or families in mind. ie. their new website which lists: drinking coffee, getting your hair bleached and drinking at a bar as fun activities for "sandestin teens". after expressing my concern to intrawest about this outrageous promotional text given problems with underage drinking in the village, i was told that was sandestin's perogative.
Intrawest was 'bought out' last Fall by the private-equity firm Fortress Investment Group LLC...private equity is ONLY in business to make maximum profit for its partners.
Rumor on the street was that Fortress really wanted Intrawest's Ski Resorts, but had to buy and take on the debt of the whole kit-n-kaboodle (which included Sandestin) for what was termed a "cheap price."
Hoping that Fortress is going to aggressively "develop and market" Sandestin?....good luck with that. :roll: My guess is they will unload it at the first opportunity.
But if you want in on the action, Fortress went public in February of this year...ticker 'FIG'--as in 'something that hides private parts.'
.
Edited
Beach Fanatic
I thought they just got sold again...within the last month. Anyone know? or am I dreaming?
BannedAuthor
Intrawest was 'bought out' last Fall by the private-equity firm Fortress Investment Group LLC...private equity is ONLY in business to make maximum profit for its partners.
Rumor on the street was that Fortress really wanted Intrawest's Ski Resorts, but had to buy and take on the debt of the whole kit-n-kaboodle (which included Sandestin) for what was termed a "cheap price."
Hoping that Fortress is going to aggressively "develop and market" Sandestin?....good luck with that. :roll: My guess is they will unload it at the first opportunity.
But if you want in on the action, Fortress went public in February of this year...ticker 'FIG'--as in 'something that hides private parts.'
.
shelly, that's exactly the case. fortress buys out failing companies on the cheap. after they bought last oct, i had hoped for some changes and some did come. there were firings, but i suspect it will take a scenario where the bottom line becomes unacceptable, then they'll just dump it. fortress' job is to make cash, not run resorts. that'll probably happen around the winter olympics. they'll need more cash to infuse on their primary business by then. dunno who would buy it though.
mullet, if i didn't care. i wouldn't bother. actually, i think sandestin has tremendous potential. it's not an issue of "love or hate" anything, if you CARE, you WANT to make it better. it's awful to hear all the complaints from visitors and others who say they will "never come back" to this area because of their experience at sandestin. and they have no personal commitment to this area or reason to make a change, they aren't going to waste their time complaining or explaining what's wrong, especially when people are so agressively defensive about hearing it. they just move on to somewhere else. meanwhile, i don't think it's ok for children and families to suffer from an unsafe environment. especially when there's a fuedal system that ensures residents who are employees or whose meal ticket is tied to the resort keep quiet!
you have to be pragmatic. nothing is perfect, but the response to problems in sandestin is really the issue here. to be defensive or ignore things instead of taking an open, problem-solving tact is really worrisome.
i think it's sad when people don't care enough to ensure the safety and well-being of others. makes it hard to be their neighbor or establish community when they make it clear it's "not their problem". and it's difficult to understand what the motives are.
let's be honest here. this is NOT about money. this is about control.
heck, if only they would exploit the marketability of the area like effective business people it would, as a byproduct, make things better! even four seasons and ritz carlton have dumped all their resources into developing safe, kid-friendly, all-inclusive family resorts because they GET that's where the cash is. now some of you will balk at mentioning those high-end luxury chains, but you should understand their pricing is comparable to sandestin's so it's the same market.
BannedAuthor
p.s. it's the fact i think this place is too precious to squander that is why i even bother. i understand my approach is antithetical to the culture in sandestin.
i get that the status quo is to sit around and slap each other on the back for a job well done, but that's not the behavior of a pro-active, responsive and caring community. a community is only as good as how it treats its most vulnerable. if you want a better town, you have to be willing to be self-critical and excited instead of fearful about changes that will make things better for people and the environment.
i get that the status quo is to sit around and slap each other on the back for a job well done, but that's not the behavior of a pro-active, responsive and caring community. a community is only as good as how it treats its most vulnerable. if you want a better town, you have to be willing to be self-critical and excited instead of fearful about changes that will make things better for people and the environment.
Beach Comber
Raven
How do you think the marketibility of our area is affected by you suggesting it is a toxic waste dump?
If you have taken your complaints to the highest level at the Resort, which I doubt you have, and not received the desired result, I will bet it was a function of your request. I reviewed this entire thread and I could not imagine a non hostile confrontation taking place between you and the Resort management.
Respectful complaints are respectfully heard.
How do you think the marketibility of our area is affected by you suggesting it is a toxic waste dump?
If you have taken your complaints to the highest level at the Resort, which I doubt you have, and not received the desired result, I will bet it was a function of your request. I reviewed this entire thread and I could not imagine a non hostile confrontation taking place between you and the Resort management.
Respectful complaints are respectfully heard.
BannedAuthor
Raven
How do you think the marketibility of our area is affected by you suggesting it is a toxic waste dump?
If you have taken your complaints to the highest level at the Resort, which I doubt you have, and not received the desired result, I will bet it was a function of your request. I reviewed this entire thread and I could not imagine a non hostile confrontation taking place between you and the Resort management.
Respectful complaints are respectfully heard.
oh my...i think your defensive response is very sad.
it's hard to believe there are people like you who care more about corporations and their own egos than the safety of little children but there you go.
as for me, there's no amount of money or "marketability" that's more important to me than people's health, so i'm afraid i can't relate to you and your concerns.
i can see why someone like you cannot imagine a non-hostile confrontation, because you are obviously such a hostile person, your only contribution to this thread is a personal attack, while everyone else is trying to determine the impact of this ground cover on the kids.
it's clear that you are an angry person who is threatened by anyone who disagrees with you and are projecting your bile on others. please do, take your own advice, and be respectufl. we have the right to discuss the betterment of our community and ensure the safety of the community members we care for.
i think if you were respectful and non-agressive, you would find that you
you could have answered most of your questions by actually reading my posts thoroughly.which you have obviously have not done. therefore, most of your post is based on your own silly assumptions.
so, with that in mind, please keep your sanctimony to yourself in the future.
Edited
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