The mandate's threat to individual liberty

Disclaimer: I oppose the mandate. I wanted a public option.

Question- why didn't Republicans, tea partiers, righties take such issue with a health care mandate when it was THEIR idea? Why wasn't it unconstitutional or scary socialism then?

I suppose that some felt the same way about it all along. But I can't help but think most people oppose it because it is "Obamacare" and they want it to be Obama's Waterloo.

You guys are aware that many of the policies advanced by democrats were recently republican ideas, no????

Obama has many disasters this is just another one on the list.

Geo I wasn't aware Repubs had proposed this. You have a link?

Disclaimer: I oppose the mandate. I wanted a public option.

Question- why didn't Republicans, tea partiers, righties take such issue with a health care mandate when it was THEIR idea? Why wasn't it unconstitutional or scary socialism then?

I suppose that some felt the same way about it all along. But I can't help but think most people oppose it because it is "Obamacare" and they want it to be Obama's Waterloo.

You guys are aware that many of the policies advanced by democrats were recently republican ideas, no????

Not me. I'm opposed to violations of the Constitution no matter which party tries to advance them. ;-)

Me too. I guess we are among the "some" I alluded to in my post.

What do u think about the rest of my shared thoughts?

AndrewG:

Republicans Hatched Idea for Obama's Health Insurance Mandate - FoxNews.com

That's messed up. That is quite enlightening. Thanks for the link.

Isn't Romneycare a disaster too?

Personally, I think gov't should require private health insurance companies to accept everyone and cap their profit margins that adjusts for cola anually etc...and/or subsidize them. Add a very reasonable healthcare subsidy payroll tax. Healthcare should not be a right but there needs to be a reasonable charge or cap for those who will absorb more than they put in. These preexisting folks definitely need some skin in the game so it doesn't get abused as an entitlement.

Care should be rationed if you hit the subsidy level. I'm not against paying more, I'm against this turning into a new entitlement. Thoughts?

Me too. I guess we are among the "some" I alluded to in my post.

What do u think about the rest of my shared thoughts?

I don't think this is all about Obama. A federal law was passed that requires we all purchase a product. This was coupled with a massive new entitlement. The bill was very unpopular when it passed. The federal government basically ignored the voters. Did they honestly think the populace would just roll over and accept it?

Yeah, I get it and don't disagree. I'm asking you why u believe there was no outrage when these ideas were republican ideas. Why was there no tea party revolt when Reagan raised taxes?

Yeah, I get it and don't disagree. I'm asking you why u believe there was no outrage when these ideas were republican ideas. Why was there no tea party revolt when Reagan raised taxes?

As far as Reagan goes, if you look at marginal tax rates before and after 1981, you'll see why he's regarded the way he is. He reset the bar on taxation in this country.

What were conservatives saying back in 84 when he agreed to raise the ss tax? I don't remember, I was in my senior year of high school. Getting into my girlfiend's pants and the pin striping on my vw rabbit were my major obsessions. 😀

As far as Reagan goes, if you look at marginal tax rates before and after 1981, you'll see why he's regarded the way he is. He reset the bar on taxation in this country.

What were conservatives saying back in 84 when he agreed to raise the ss tax? I don't remember, I was in my senior year of high school. Getting into my girlfiend's pants and the pin striping on my vw rabbit were my major obsessions. 😀

Ok. I was 6 when Reagan was elected and was also preoccupied with other aspects of life as different administrations came and went. But can you not acknowledge how the rhetoric these days is disengenuous?

Obama made a play for universal health care. His base wanted a public option. Republicans strongly opposed it. So he compromised (caved actually) and instead moved forward with a Republican idea- a mandate.

The resulting discourse didn't reflect a reasonable discussion. Thanks to Frank Luntz the right went with the idea that the mandate was a "government takeover". Obama's idea of a mandate is scary socialism- a disregard for the constitution and a loss of liberties. Taxes are out of control. Buy guns while you can. Cue the tea party.

Is it not compelling that the radical liberal ideas of today are republican ideas of this current generation?

That's messed up. That is quite enlightening. Thanks for the link.

Isn't Romneycare a disaster too?

Personally, I think gov't should require private health insurance companies to accept everyone and cap their profit margins that adjusts for cola anually etc...and/or subsidize them. Add a very reasonable healthcare subsidy payroll tax. Healthcare should not be a right but there needs to be a reasonable charge or cap for those who will absorb more than they put in. These preexisting folks definitely need some skin in the game so it doesn't get abused as an entitlement.

Care should be rationed if you hit the subsidy level. I'm not against paying more, I'm against this turning into a new entitlement. Thoughts?

I don't know the solution. But we need lawmakers to fix the system so that citizens can't lose everything they own because they got sick while insurance companies recognize record profits year after year. Preexisting conditions shouldn't mean you can't get coverage. Insurance companies seem to operate such that they can't afford to lose on anyone.

The health care industry behaves badly. Very few industries in a free market can get away with refusing to share prices for services. How much does it cost to fix my broken arm? I'd like to shop around. You know- competition. Better for all of us.

On the flipside, health insurance should be about having a net to catch you if something goes wrong. Instead citizens have developed the belief that coverage means you never need to pay for office visits or prescription meds.

We need at a minimum- a catastrophic health policy accessible to all. Financial aid to people who can't afford it should be available. It's a very Christian concept but oddly enough, the people who seem to oppose it the most are also the most religious.

Entitlement has become a code word- a dirty one. The spirit of many good programs designed to help the populace is tainted thanks to special interests. The politricksters have convinced "real Americans" who need entitlements the most that they are where we need to focus our cuts.

In Florida we have a fund that all insured drivers pay into that covers the cost of fixing your windshield should it break. Everyone who is legally insured is required by law to pay into it. This socialist :sarc: program works great.

I want to see some savy folks get together and turn the insurance industry upside down. I'm thinking of USAA (the credit union) and how it is so much better for its members than publicly held banks. But do this in healthcare. I'm thinking of the way Napster changed the music business (I am in no way saying to steal anything). I'm talking about leveraging technology to create group buying power- a non for profit collective.

What is the difference between a for profit company and a non profit? Only one thing. The latter doesn't pay dividends. Sounds good. Instead of having fat cats and wall street seeing a better bottom line as a result of taking care of sick/injured people, let's put those billions back into the healthcare system itself to make it better. Let's make it affordable. Let's make it universal.

Rambling.

Ok. I was 6 when Reagan was elected and was also preoccupied with other aspects of life as different administrations came and went. But can you not acknowledge how the rhetoric these days is disengenuous?

Not mine. I can't speak for anybody else. ;-)

Obama made a play for universal health care. His base wanted a public option. Republicans strongly opposed it. So he compromised (caved actually) and instead moved forward with a Republican idea- a mandate.

I disagree with this. Show me an article by Buckley professing the wisdom of a federal healthcare mandate and you might change my mind. I might be wrong but the mandate you're speaking of sounds to me like a concession 90's republicans came up with as an alternative to HillaryCare.

The resulting discourse didn't reflect a reasonable discussion. Thanks to Frank Luntz the right went with the idea that the mandate was a "government takeover". Obama's idea of a mandate is scary socialism- a disregard for the constitution and a loss of liberties. Taxes are out of control. Buy guns while you can. Cue the tea party.

Welcome to American politics my friend. The right made the best of a bad situation by out playing the democrats. Kudos to them.

Who said Buckley or anyone else professed the wisdom of a federal healthcare mandate? I said it was a Republican idea and as such- it is disengenuous for Republicans to label their own idea as Obama's socialist, communist idea.

I think the issue is that I naively believe these elected officials should be working on making the country better and folks like yourself accept that all they are doing is trying to out politrick the other team.

Who said Buckley or anyone else professed the wisdom of a federal healthcare mandate? I said it was a Republican idea and as such- it is disengenuous for Republicans to label their own idea as Obama's socialist, communist idea.

I'd be more than happy to introduce you to quite a few republicans who don't think a federal healthcare mandate is a good idea, much less their own. Hence my point about Buckley. ;-)

I think the issue is that I naively believe these elected officials should be working on making the country better and folks like yourself accept that all they are doing is trying to out politrick the other team.

Out politricking the other team, when necessary, limits the damage they cause. Remember, your party's version of what makes the country better is very different than mine. From a personal perspective, honestly I think the country is in pretty good shape the way it is. If all people wanted to do was tweak a few things, I'd be fine with that. Illegalize discrimination based on pre-existing conditions by insurance companies? Fine, we can work that up in a 100 words or less. But a limited change like that was not what democrats tried to do.

I'd be more than happy to introduce you to quite a few republicans who don't think a federal healthcare mandate is a good idea, much less their own. Hence my point about Buckley. ;-)

And I'd be more than happy to introduce you to quite a few democrats who don't think a federal healthcare mandate is a good idea. It doesn't change the fact that it was a Republican idea. Hence my point about the disengenuous rhetoric. ;-)

Out politricking the other team, when necessary, limits the damage they cause. Remember, your party's version of what makes the country better is very different than mine.

I am not affiliated with a political party. :cool:

From a personal perspective, honestly I think the country is in pretty good shape the way it is. If all people wanted to do was tweak a few things, I'd be fine with that.

I disagree. The electoral system is broken. The corporations and special interest own us. They used to quietly skim off the top. Now they rob us in broad daylight using the front door.

Illegalize discrimination based on pre-existing conditions by insurance companies? Fine, we can work that up in a 100 words or less. But a limited change like that was not what democrats tried to do.

I agree.