The President's Speech

I don't want this to morph into tax cut debate. I'd like to find out more about why Dems voted down amendments that would add verification to the exclusion of illegals.

Not once, but twice. I'd like the same answer.

I'd like to know what the content of the amendments was as well - especially since we are only hearing about them as Wilson attempts to justify his behavior.

I am also still waiting to hear why it is so hard to ask someone to prove their citizenship w/ a photo ID when they want to receive medical care on the taxpayer dime.

P.S. This constant use of illegals as scapegoats and a political rallying point makes me very uncomfortable. Did I miss the memo that if someone is not a US citizen their life has no value and we have no moral responsibility to treat them fairly?

If you are a US citizen, then you have a SSN and a government issued photo ID

Incorrect. You can get a SSN if you have a work visa. I know several people who are legal immigrants, working here on legal work visas. One of them is a PhD.
From SSA:
"Generally, only noncitizens authorized to work in the United States by the Department of Homeland Security (DHS) can get a Social Security number."

Among other things, the SSN is used by the legal immigrant to file a tax return, called an "NR" return - the NR stands for Non Resident. I believe one of the requirements for a green card is that while you are working here and waiting for the green card application to be approved, you have to show that you have paid your taxes.

Here's the requirements for a Florida driver's license:
"Age 18 or Older

• United States Citizen proof of identity.
• Non-United States Citizen proof of identity.
• Proof of Social Security number, if issued. Chapter 322, Florida Statutes, requires the Department to collect social security numbers for the issuance of driver license and identification cards.
• Proof of residential address
• Proof of completion of a Traffic Law & Substance Abuse Education Course or license from another state, country, or jurisdiction.

It isn't that easy to prove citizenship. If I had to prove it today, I guess I would have to dig out my passport or birth certificate. When's the last time you were asked for either, unless you were traveling?

We need to make sure we understand the difference between a legal and an illegal alien, and know which one we are talking about. Many legal immigrants spend a lifetime or nearly so, in this country, work, pay taxes, raise families, and never become citizens.

I'd like to know what the content of the amendments was as well - especially since we are only hearing about them as Wilson attempts to justify his behavior.

I am also still waiting to hear why it is so hard to ask someone to prove their citizenship w/ a photo ID when they want to receive medical care on the taxpayer dime.

P.S. This constant use of illegals as scapegoats and a political rallying point makes me very uncomfortable. Did I miss the memo that if someone is not a US citizen their life has no value and we have no moral responsibility to treat them fairly?

This one was voted down 26 to 15, it's only two pages: http://republicans.waysandmeans.house.gov/UploadedFiles/Heller_Amdt_Text.pdf

And this one was defeated 29 to 28 (also two pages):
http://energycommerce.house.gov/Press_111/20090730/hr3200_deal_1.pdf

This one was voted down 26 to 15, it's only two pages: http://republicans.waysandmeans.house.gov/UploadedFiles/Heller_Amdt_Text.pdf

And this one was defeated 29 to 28 (also two pages):
http://energycommerce.house.gov/Press_111/20090730/hr3200_deal_1.pdf

So based on my reading of the text, they voted on whether or not to use existing programs or programs already included in the proposed bill to verify citizenship- and they voted against the amendments. Does anyone else know about this as if they had existing programs or ones that were already being created, the cost shouldn't be increased which is one reason given to pooh-pooh verification systems. This is especially interesting if they are using systems within the proposed bill to perform the verification.

Listening to a liar...

Listening to a Liar - Columns - Freedom Politics

Listening to a liar...

Listening to a Liar - Columns - Freedom Politics

Great article - I love Thomas Sowell

The chatter I am hearing is that the SC Congressman's timing was rather poor, but statement was spot on.

Listening to a liar...

Listening to a Liar - Columns - Freedom Politics

Well written. Thank you, SSB!

The chatter I am hearing is that the SC Congressman's timing was rather poor, but statement was spot on.

The NAACP is calling it racist. :roll:

The NAACP is calling it racist. :roll:

Can we throw out the racist and bible cards, sort of like the high and low scores in competitions? Please???

The NAACP is calling it racist. :roll:

Now, tossing a shoe at him would be racist.

Other chatter: Bush handled his heckling with a smile, not a glare.

Now, tossing a shoe at him would be racist.

Other chatter: Bush handled his heckling with a smile, not a glare.

Bush handled everything with a smile, even when it was inappropriate. You could tell, when he was giving a big speech, that he'd been coached not to smile at the end of every sentence.

I beg to differ...Bush handled everything (including the Iraq war and the economic meltdown) with a smirk.

Y'all, I still laugh when I see that shoe tossing.......friggin' classic! Disrespectful, but funny.

I just hope no one throws a shoe at Obama's teleprompter.

So, did anyone ever find out why the language about the enforcement of the health care being for citizens and LEGAL residents, was deleted from the bill?

Also, Obama says that the $500 billion in current waste from Medicare will pay for the cost of this new health care bill. Can anyone explain to me why the federal government knowingly wastes $500 Billion in Medicare, and yet we think the federal government (which runs Medicare) should be trusted to run the proposed health care in a better manner? That is worse than ridiculous. Why not just start with proving that they can free up the $500 Billion in current waste in this particular program? Basically, I hear this as, "We screwed this one up big-time, but give us a shot and trying the same thing on a larger scale. (Too big to fail comes to mind. If they pass the bill and the health care fails, we are stuck with it because it will be too big to stop it.)

One last thing, Obama on 60 Minutes, said that this bill is on his shoulders. If it fails, he will have to answer for it (in the election). He plans to be at this job (President) for a long time. The only problem with this rhetoric is that the health care bill, if passed, wouldn't start until 2013. Now my math may be fuzzy like George Bush's, but if Obama serves his term from 2009-2013, and this program doesn't start until 2013, how the hell does he think that he has to answer to it? It won't even start until after the next election is decided, and then if implemented and it fails, he wouldn't be eligible to run another Presidential election, so we (American voters) would not be able to hold him accountable at the voting polls. Can someone clear my fuzzy math?

One last thing, Obama on 60 Minutes, said that this bill is on his shoulders. If it fails, he will have to answer for it (in the election). He plans to be at this job (President) for a long time. The only problem with this rhetoric is that the health care bill, if passed, wouldn't start until 2013. Now my math may be fuzzy like George Bush's, but if Obama serves his term from 2009-2013, and this program doesn't start until 2013, how the hell does he think that he has to answer to it? It won't even start until after the next election is decided, and then if implemented and it fails, he wouldn't be eligible to run another Presidential election, so we (American voters) would not be able to hold him accountable at the voting polls. Can someone clear my fuzzy math?

I believe your math is accurate and is even more interesting when placed against the discussion of how this must be done NOW. I see it taking a couple of years to ramp up, but four years is a long time in even federal government standards.

The 2013 thing might be an election tactic. Anyone thought of that? I don't know why it wouldn't/shouldn't go into effect much sooner.

Can we throw out the racist and bible cards, sort of like the high and low scores in competitions? Please???

You could if they weren't being played everytime someone can't think of anything else to play.

You could if they weren't being played everytime someone can't think of anything else to play.

:scratch:...interesting, very interesting.

The U.S. Postal Service was established in 1775 - you have had 234 years to get it right; it is broke.

The Post Office was a necessary function during the early years of our country. It was manned by Americans that knew how to work hard and knew the value of their labor. Then Congress and the unions realized that the Post Office didn?t need to be cost efficient, they had the unlimited resource called the taxpayer to fund their enterprise. Then came private enterprise and they got their ass kicked by efficiency.



Social Security started out as a voluntary contribution of one tenth of one percent of earned wages. FDR (the first communist in government) sold this load of crap to America as the government?s attempt to provide security to those too old to work anymore. What he really meant was that ?you are too stupid to take care of yourself and the government can do a better job of it if you will just trust us.? Social Security is now 13.76% of your wages and will be paying out more than it takes in by 2018. Oh, and it is not voluntary anymore!




Fannie Mae was based on the principle of good fiscal policy and risk management. It began during an era when Americans believed that a debt incurred was a debt to be paid. Then some how Congress got further involved and decided that not making loans to riskier borrowers was a form of discrimination.


The ?War on Poverty? did nothing but trap the poor into government dependency. It destroyed all of the ?Poor?s? incentive to better their lot in life. All they had to do was wait for the welfare check to show up every month. If you think I am wrong, think about what came crawling out of the bowels of New Orleans after Katrina. These people were totally dependent on government assistance because they knew no other way of life. The government?s solution is to give them more money because that translates into guaranteed votes.


Medicare and Medicaid are trust funds. They can only pay out what they receive every year. Congress got involved and now Doctors are forced to maintain a 75% increase in staff just to deal with the paper bureaucracy. This increase in staff are not care providers, they are unnecessary overhead.



See comments on Fannie Mae.


Congress has sold programs to the American public in order to do good. They have done quite well! Nothing works because they have no motive other than votes but they are deeper in my wallet than ever before.



No comment because I already have stated my views on this latest of failed government programs.

The U.S. Postal Service was established in 1775 - you have had 234 years to get it right; it is broke.

The Post Office was a necessary function during the early years of our country. It was manned by Americans that knew how to work hard and knew the value of their labor. Then Congress and the unions realized that the Post Office didn?t need to be cost efficient, they had the unlimited resource called the taxpayer to fund their enterprise. Then came private enterprise and they got their ass kicked by efficiency.

​

Social Security was established in 1935 - you have had 74 years to get it right; it is broke.​

Social Security started out as a voluntary contribution of one tenth of one percent of earned wages. FDR (the first communist in government) sold this load of crap to America as the government?s attempt to provide security to those too old to work anymore. What he really meant was that ?you are too stupid to take care of yourself and the government can do a better job of it if you will just trust us.? Social Security is now 13.76% of your wages and will be paying out more than it takes in by 2018. Oh, and it is not voluntary anymore!

​

Fannie Mae was established in 1938 - you have had 71 years to get it right; it is broke.​

Fannie Mae was based on the principle of good fiscal policy and risk management. It began during an era when Americans believed that a debt incurred was a debt to be paid. Then some how Congress got further involved and decided that not making loans to riskier borrowers was a form of discrimination.

The "War on Poverty" started in 1964 - you have had 45 years to get it right; $1 trillion of our money is confiscated each year and transferred to "the poor"; it hasn't worked and our entire country is broke.​

The ?War on Poverty? did nothing but trap the poor into government dependency. It destroyed all of the ?Poor?s? incentive to better their lot in life. All they had to do was wait for the welfare check to show up every month. If you think I am wrong, think about what came crawling out of the bowels of New Orleans after Katrina. These people were totally dependent on government assistance because they knew no other way of life. The government?s solution is to give them more money because that translates into guaranteed votes.

​

Medicare and Medicaid were established in 1965 - you've had 44 years to get it right; they are broke.​

Medicare and Medicaid are trust funds. They can only pay out what they receive every year. Congress got involved and now Doctors are forced to maintain a 75% increase in staff just to deal with the paper bureaucracy. This increase in staff are not care providers, they are unnecessary overhead.

​

Freddie Mac was established in 1970 - you have had 39 years to get it right; it is broke.​

See comments on Fannie Mae.

​

Trillions of dollars were spent in the massive political payoffs called TARP, the "Stimulus", the Omnibus Appropriations Act of 2009... none show any signs of working, although ACORN appears to have found a new source: the American taxpayer.​

Congress has sold programs to the American public in order to do good. They have done quite well! Nothing works because they have no motive other than votes but they are deeper in my wallet than ever before.

And finally, to set a new record:

​

"Cash for Clunkers" was established in 2009 and went broke in 2009! It took cars (that were the best some people could afford) and replaced them with high-priced and less-affordable cars, mostly Japanese. A good percentage of the profits went out of the country. And the American taxpayers take the hit for Congress' generosity in burning three billion more of our dollars on failed experiments.​

No comment because I already have stated my views on this latest of failed government programs.

​

So with a perfect 100% failure rate and a record that proves that "services" you shove down our throats are failing faster and faster, you want Americans to believe you can be trusted with a government-run health care system?​

20% of our entire economy?​

With all due respect,​

Are you crazy?​

Thank you for making the point that this country isn't perfect. You may catch some flack from others who believe the opposite no matter what the facts might say and they will call you traitor and un-American but pay them no mind we know better. While I don't fully agree with your 100% failure viewpoint I do believe there is room for improvement. We love our country even though she isn't perfect, wouldn't you agree?

Thank you for making the point that this country isn't perfect. You may catch some flack from others who believe the opposite no matter what the facts might say and they will call you traitor and un-American but pay them no mind we know better. While I don't fully agree with your 100% failure viewpoint I do believe there is room for improvement. We love our country even though she isn't perfect, wouldn't you agree?

I absolutely agree, but I don't think the Beatles were talking about the US government when they said love is all we need. Inspiring the people to do rather than to hold their hand out would be a great first step.