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The real reason Obamacare has Failed us all?

drivingtheview avatar
Beach Lover
3,839 views
I beleive we can all agree reform is needed for Healthcare. Though I urge everyone to keep in mind-we are talking about reforming the greatest health care system in the World. Mr. hope and change made a lot of "promises" to we the people during his presidential campaign. It is blatantly obvious after watching these videos/reading the article that Obama's words were the definition of deceitful insincerity. So I wanted to ask you - what is the true reason Obamacare has failed? Obama and his team crafted this proposed plan with zero knowledge/input from the public (he promised c-span TV camera coverage of the drafting process of his proposed Healthcare Bill as well as publishing the initial draft on the internet ;-)), pushed the bill over to the committees, and demanded both FILIBUSTER-PROOF Houses of Congress shove it down we the people's throats in 3 weeks time!!!! I wonder why he did that :idontno:?!? We have all argued the under the table devilish details of the plan. But I think this completely misses the point of why his reform has failed us all. When I hear the "pundits" argue about proposed healthcare reform-very few mention Obama's slight of hand obvious lies as a reason for the massive public backlash. For me, the following links show why I have written this President completely off. I now unfortunately have zero faith in anything he says. Please review the following quick links before commenting :wave:

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o5t8GdxFYBU"]YouTube - Barack Obama "Public Will Have 5 Days To Look At Every Bill That Lands On My Desk"[/ame]

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8A_-Qkb22zA"]YouTube - Obama's Promise for Open Healthcare Reform[/ame]

After lawsuit, Obama releases info on health talks - White House- msnbc.com

Replies

96
30ashopper avatar
SoWal Insider
#77
truth does not reside only
on the left or right

Corruption and deceit sure do though, that's for sure. :lol:
mtlinscomb avatar
Beach Fanatic
#78
With the countless programs our government already can't manage, why would anyone decide to add healthcare to the list?
Lynnie avatar
SoWal Insider
#80
a big part of the conditioning that Skunky speaks of comes directly from the marketing departments of the insurance companies; their lobbyists regularly contribute to most of the members of Congress re-election campaign; the problem is not that we do not have good health care; it is that an insurance executive is standing between the patient and the docs, making life decisions..for everyone.

it is beyond me why so many people are worried about a government employee being there; but, are perfectly content to have an insurance company executive making those decisions.

The pulse I feel is because we can pass legislation on carriers, not the US Gov't. Medicaid and Medicare are not efficient and are running out of money.

What is MRSA?:idontno:
Bob avatar
SoWal Insider
#83
Can any of these US Healthcare haters name one drug in the last 20 years that was not developed in the United States? Also there are very large differences in how countries tally their life expectancy and infant mortality. In the US if a child is delivered and takes a single breath and then dies they count against both. In most of those countries ahead of us that child must survive 24 hrs. Considering the age of death, that skews the data quite dramatically.

Speaking of skewed data, did you guys know that of those 46 million uninsured in America: 12 million are illegal immigrants and 9 million are under 35, can afford health insurance and simply choose not to carry it. That really leaves only 25 million without it. There is not an exact number for those that qualify for public assistance but have not taken the time to do so. Even at that number, it is about 9 percent of the population. Personally, I do not understand why we are willing the screw up healthcare for 90% of Americans to cover the very few.

I agree with removal of pre-existing condition exclusions and a windfall profits tax on the insurers, but a public healthcare option is the 1st step to Socialized Medicine, and this is why the Florida Medical Association and 18 other State Medical Associations oppose HB 3200 and are urging its members to speak to their patients in efforts to abort this legislation. If the President and Congress was serious about health reform, they would include medical malpractice reform which increases the cost of every medical visit. Unfortunately, they are owned by the Trial Lawyers Association and will not even consider it.

What is the problem with Socialized Medicine? The rationing of healthcare. After age 75, most medical procedures improve quality of life, but don't on average extend life. Heart valves, bypass surgery, cancer treatment, joint replacement are quite the drag on healthcare costs. Without a doubt costs are going to soar initially and when the central planners look where to cut costs it will be with the elderly. I am advising all of my older patients who think they might need joint replacement soon, to go ahead with it because there is a good chance in 2 years they will not be allowed to do so without paying for it themselves.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/07/19/magazine/19healthcare-t.html By PETER SINGER
Published: July 15, 2009

You have advanced kidney cancer. It will kill you, probably in the next year or two. A drug called Sutent slows the spread of the cancer and may give you an extra six months, but at a cost of $54,000. Is a few more months worth that much?

The costs of the current health care system are becoming increasingly clear, and public sentiment for a more systematic approach may be growing. We?d like to know what you think about the prospect of rationing.

* Why We Must Ration Health Care (August 2, 2009)

If you can afford it, you probably would pay that much, or more, to live longer, even if your quality of life wasn?t going to be good. But suppose it?s not you with the cancer but a stranger covered by your health-insurance fund. If the insurer provides this man ? and everyone else like him ? with Sutent, your premiums will increase. Do you still think the drug is a good value? Suppose the treatment cost a million dollars. Would it be worth it then? Ten million? Is there any limit to how much you would want your insurer to pay for a drug that adds six months to someone?s life? If there is any point at which you say, ?No, an extra six months isn?t worth that much,? then you think that health care should be rationed.
Bob avatar
SoWal Insider
#84
Corruption and deceit sure do though, that's for sure. :lol:
"deficits don't matter, weapons of mass destruction matter" - dick "draft dodger, islamofascism threat level, waterboarder" cheney.
Miss Kitty avatar
Meow
#85
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/07/19/magazine/19healthcare-t.html By PETER SINGER
Published: July 15, 2009

You have advanced kidney cancer. It will kill you, probably in the next year or two. A drug called Sutent slows the spread of the cancer and may give you an extra six months, but at a cost of $54,000. Is a few more months worth that much?

The costs of the current health care system are becoming increasingly clear, and public sentiment for a more systematic approach may be growing. We?d like to know what you think about the prospect of rationing.

* Why We Must Ration Health Care (August 2, 2009)

If you can afford it, you probably would pay that much, or more, to live longer, even if your quality of life wasn?t going to be good. But suppose it?s not you with the cancer but a stranger covered by your health-insurance fund. If the insurer provides this man ? and everyone else like him ? with Sutent, your premiums will increase. Do you still think the drug is a good value? Suppose the treatment cost a million dollars. Would it be worth it then? Ten million? Is there any limit to how much you would want your insurer to pay for a drug that adds six months to someone?s life? If there is any point at which you say, ?No, an extra six months isn?t worth that much,? then you think that health care should be rationed.

Ted Kennedy----brain tumor---goes not to his local healthcare providers----goes to Duke. Shouldn't everyone have a helicopter to crisscross the country in search of the best cure possible? Is this the kind of healthcare for the people he has called for all these years?:idontno:
Winnie avatar
Beach Fanatic
#86
Ted Kennedy----brain tumor---goes not to his local healthcare providers----goes to Duke. Shouldn't everyone have a helicopter to crisscross the country in search of the best cure possible? Is this the kind of healthcare for the people he has called for all these years?:idontno:

Good point!

It is understandable that anyone wants the best care they can get but it does look hypocritical. It's the same as private schools vs inner city public schools. Nobody with the choice would opt for lesser education.
futurebeachbum avatar
Beach Fanatic
#87
Forget health care. What we need is to socialize the practice of law.

The Constitution doesn't guarantee us equal health care. It does however guarantee us equal treatment by our justice system.

Where is the ground swell to make all lawyers government employees?

Don't all of us want to have equal representation under the law? What better way that make all lawyers salaried employees of the federal government?

Wouldn't we all prefer to have our legal rights defended (or prosecuted) by persons with the zeal of government employees. After all, all that they want is what's best for us, Who better to represent us in both criminal and civil cases?
Beach Fanatic
#88
Good point!

It is understandable that anyone wants the best care they can get but it does look hypocritical. It's the same as private schools vs inner city public schools. Nobody with the choice would opt for lesser education.

Win- It is hypocritical and that is more than looking hypocritical.
Winnie avatar
Beach Fanatic
#89
Forget health care. What we need is to socialize the practice of law.

The Constitution doesn't guarantee us equal health care. It does however guarantee us equal treatment by our justice system.

Where is the ground swell to make all lawyers government employees?

Don't all of us want to have equal representation under the law? What better way that make all lawyers salaried employees of the federal government?

Wouldn't we all prefer to have our legal rights defended (or prosecuted) by persons with the zeal of government employees. After all, all that they want is what's best for us, Who better to represent us in both criminal and civil cases?

:lolabove: :floor:You are good!! I never would have thought of that and you're right! :funn:
Banned
#90
Forget health care. What we need is to socialize the practice of law.

The Constitution doesn't guarantee us equal health care. It does however guarantee us equal treatment by our justice system.

Where is the ground swell to make all lawyers government employees?

Don't all of us want to have equal representation under the law? What better way that make all lawyers salaried employees of the federal government?

Wouldn't we all prefer to have our legal rights defended (or prosecuted) by persons with the zeal of government employees. After all, all that they want is what's best for us, Who better to represent us in both criminal and civil cases?

We have judges for this equal treatment.

There is a system in place at present for hundreds of thousands of American citizens with no choice except to be tried by government lawyers and judges should they do wrong. You may join them at any time.
Banned
#91
Ted Kennedy----brain tumor---goes not to his local healthcare providers----goes to Duke. Shouldn't everyone have a helicopter to crisscross the country in search of the best cure possible? Is this the kind of healthcare for the people he has called for all these years?:idontno:

Good point!

It is understandable that anyone wants the best care they can get but it does look hypocritical. It's the same as private schools vs inner city public schools. Nobody with the choice would opt for lesser education.


Those with money will always be able to choose better healthcare and education and have access to many other finer things in life. This is true in any country and will never change.
DuneAHH avatar
Beach Fanatic
#92
How to Help Healthcare: Die Sooner - Think Free : Freedom Politics

While this was written a bit "tongue in cheek", I tend to believe it points up an underlying issue of this health "care" dilemma:

Acceptance of Death (inevitable)

vs.

Desire for Immortality via Science (denial of the inevitable)



http://www.nytimes.com/2009/07/19/magazine/19healthcare-t.html By PETER SINGER
Published: July 15, 2009

You have advanced kidney cancer. It will kill you, probably in the next year or two. A drug called Sutent slows the spread of the cancer and may give you an extra six months, but at a cost of $54,000. Is a few more months worth that much?

The costs of the current health care system are becoming increasingly clear, and public sentiment for a more systematic approach may be growing. We?d like to know what you think about the prospect of rationing.

* Why We Must Ration Health Care (August 2, 2009)

If you can afford it, you probably would pay that much, or more, to live longer, even if your quality of life wasn?t going to be good. But suppose it?s not you with the cancer but a stranger covered by your health-insurance fund. If the insurer provides this man ? and everyone else like him ? with Sutent, your premiums will increase. Do you still think the drug is a good value? Suppose the treatment cost a million dollars. Would it be worth it then? Ten million? Is there any limit to how much you would want your insurer to pay for a drug that adds six months to someone?s life? If there is any point at which you say, ?No, an extra six months isn?t worth that much,? then you think that health care should be rationed.

Precisely.

... and if it's not "my" money keeping my 120 year old mother alive for another 6 months...

well then... can there be any limit to my fantasy / denial?

Members of my family involved in the critical health "care" profession increasingly experience situations where the aged/imminently terminal patient is pleading to be allowed to die, but they're family members refuse to let them go.

Seems to me that "Death Acceptance Reform" HAS to be faced as part of health care reform... since we have totally embraced the excellent marketing of Scientific Immortality.
sunspotbaby avatar
SoWal Insider
#93
TOP TEN INDICATORS THAT YOUR EMPLOYER HAS CHANGED TO OBAMACARE:


(10) Your annual breast exam is done at Hooters.

(9) Directions to your doctor's office include "Take a left when you
enter the trailer park."

( The tongue depressors taste faintly of Fudgesicles.

(7) The only proctologist in the plan is "Gus" from Roto-Rooter.

(6) The only item listed under Preventive Care Coverage is "an apple a
day.."

(5) Your primary care physician is wearing the pants you gave to
Goodwill last month.

(4) "The patient is responsible for 200% of out-of-network charges," is
not a typographical error..

(3) The only expense covered 100% is "embalming."

(2) Your Prozac comes in different colors with little M's on them.

AND THE NUMBER ONE SIGN YOU'VE JOINED OBAMACARE:

(1) You ask for Viagra and they give you a Popsicle stick and Duct Tape.

:funn:
Banned
#94
TOP TEN INDICATORS THAT YOUR EMPLOYER HAS CHANGED TO OBAMACARE:


(10) Your annual breast exam is done at Hooters.

(9) Directions to your doctor's office include "Take a left when you
enter the trailer park."

( The tongue depressors taste faintly of Fudgesicles.

(7) The only proctologist in the plan is "Gus" from Roto-Rooter.

(6) The only item listed under Preventive Care Coverage is "an apple a
day.."

(5) Your primary care physician is wearing the pants you gave to
Goodwill last month.

(4) "The patient is responsible for 200% of out-of-network charges," is
not a typographical error..

(3) The only expense covered 100% is "embalming."

(2) Your Prozac comes in different colors with little M's on them.

AND THE NUMBER ONE SIGN YOU'VE JOINED OBAMACARE:

(1) You ask for Viagra and they give you a Popsicle stick and Duct Tape.

:funn:

I don't care who you are that last one is funny:lolabove:
Here4Good avatar
Beach Fanatic
#95
I don't care who you are that last one is funny:lolabove:

It's true, I don't care which side of the debate you are on, this whole thing was funny.
Miss Kitty avatar
Meow
#96
:floor:...laughter IS the best medicine!
Beach Runner avatar
beats on hood
#97
Ted Kennedy----brain tumor---goes not to his local healthcare providers----goes to Duke. Shouldn't everyone have a helicopter to crisscross the country in search of the best cure possible? Is this the kind of healthcare for the people he has called for all these years?:idontno:
Hubby has done the same thing -- private jet to and from Duke for surgery. I don't believe in the afterlife, so one must do what he/she can do to stay alive. Everyone should have the choice of that level of health care (even if they drive rather than fly private jets), but unfortunately, that's not the reality now.

I'm in a real dilemma. Do I want to continue first class medical care for hubby and me because we are insured? Or do I want to settle for the level of health care for the masses in ObamaCare so that daughter can get covered once she goes off our insurance on her next birthday?:idontno:Either way is not very appealing to me.

I feel like being part of the angry mob.:pissed:I broke my front tooth two weeks ago because I gritted my teeth in anger over Mom's rejection by Medicare. Good news today is that since she is improving, Medicare is paying for more rehab until 9/5. Our alternative was $12,900 a month for private pay.:bang:Now we need to figure out what to do after 9/5.:eek:

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