The Surge Worked- Now Admit the GM thing is Looking Good...

Confucius say, "Bailouts are like dominos, there's always one right after the other ready to fall."

Confucius say, "Bailouts are like dominos, there's always one right after the other ready to fall."

How profound. Not willing to admit that at least the GM bailout is looking like one that is working out.

Look- I opposed the GM bailout like I did the surge. But I can admit it looks like I was wrong about both.

I figured you'd be the conservative who'd bless the GM bailout in hindsight...

:idontno:

Confucius say, "Bailouts are like dominos, there's always one right after the other ready to fall."

Exactly, bailouts are a bad idea.

But, going ahead and answering the question, no, you can't say it was a good idea. The stock is trading at $34, and breakeven for the taxpayer is over $133.

Government's break-even price for GM: $133.78 - Business - Autos - msnbc.com

How profound. Not willing to admit that at least the GM bailout is looking like one that is working out.

Look- I opposed the GM bailout like I did the surge. But I can admit it looks like I was wrong about both.

I figured you'd be the conservative who'd bless the GM bailout in hindsight...

:idontno:

For some if it's bad in theory, it's bad period, practical considerations be damned.

Exactly, bailouts are a bad idea.

But, going ahead and answering the question, no, you can't say it was a good idea. The stock is trading at $34, and breakeven for the taxpayer is over $133.

Government's break-even price for GM: $133.78 - Business - Autos - msnbc.com

I'm not so much saying it was a good idea as I am saying that it is looking like it is working out-

compared to if we lwould have let GM die.

You are only comparing the dollar amount we gave paid to the current share price of the stock. You're not considering the harm to the economy we would have seen if GM was left for dead. You're also not considering that GM is positioned to raise revenue (I believe it is still an option to pay back taxpayers in addition to us selling our stock).

Perhaps my post was premature. Time will tell but so far so good from what I am seeing.

:idontno:

How profound. Not willing to admit that at least the GM bailout is looking like one that is working out.

Look- I opposed the GM bailout like I did the surge. But I can admit it looks like I was wrong about both.

I figured you'd be the conservative who'd bless the GM bailout in hindsight...

:idontno:

No I don't. short term, sure the comany survived, but long term, it sets up the next set of taxpayer bailouts.

http://uspolitics.about.com/od/economy/a/chryslerBailout.htm

It all started with Chrysler. Once the precedent was set, these companies knew they could come for help when ever they needed it. They also took this as an excuse to mismanage their companies and exploit their bottom line for personal gain.

And now the precedent has been reaffirmed. You don't have run a car company efficiently, you don't have to worry about racking up massive debts, you don't have to worry about exorbitant pay and benefits, you don't have to worry about failing, because you own the politicians who run the country.

The even bigger "Too Big To Fail" banks now know this too. Hazaah!

nothing here but union hate. keep talking around your animosity.

The biggest problem with the surge is that we should have never been there in the first place.

I'd say the jury is still out on the bailout.

The government bailed out Chrysler in the late 70's and it didn't stick. Everyone proclaimed it a great success (and it was far less catastrophic a bailout than GM had.) Less than 20 years later they were on the block being sold to Daimler. From there it was all downhill to the next bailout. Plus, Chrysler actually paid back all of the bailout money to the government. GM already wrote off billions of bail-out debt in the bankruptcy. The government will never get that money back.

I guess the lesson is that our country will not let 'too big to fail companies fail' and instead will just keep bailing them out. I'm pretty sure that the current management of GM is aware of that.

nothing here but union hate. keep talking around your animosity.

I wasn't pin pointing the unions in my post.

Perhaps my post was premature. Time will tell but so far so good from what I am seeing.

:idontno:

What is important is what we don't see, one of moral hazard.

Ford played by the rules, and should be dominant in the market. Too bad for them! How about the government propping up your competitor...

Crony Capitalism <> Capitalism

Unions got a sweetheart of a deal. Didn't work out to well for bondholders.

Will they start producing quality vehicles people want at a good value will determine success. Success is ultimately financial independence.

I opposed the surge. It seems it worked. And while I will always believe invading Iraq was a major mistake of George Bush's, I acknowledge that he made the right call on the surge.

So-

How's about some resident righties step up and acknowledge that the GM bailout was less of a socialist takeover and more of what appears to be a wise move on Obama's part and a success story in the making for Americans in an otherwise brutal economic period.

Obama Hails G.M. 'Success Story' - NYTimes.com

Shopper? Idlewind? Andy? Walk the Walk?

I applaud anyone that can say they were wrong,especially publicly.I can and have and continue to do so,it's called integrity and class.Obama cannot do this:idontno:,I would respect him more if he did.
The unions did get a sunshine of a deal and thats part of the problem with American autos(I say that because I love my Chevrolet trucks) but Japan makes quality automobiles for a fraction of American made.Why? No unions.
Japanese maunfacture autos for around $20. per hour,where U.S. made autos cost more than $70. per😱 hour.(Unions).

What is important is what we don't see, one of moral hazard.

Ford played by the rules, and should be dominant in the market. Too bad for them! How about the government propping up your competitor...

Crony Capitalism <> Capitalism

Ford Takes $5.9 Billion Government Loan Ford Takes $5.9 Billion Government Loan | Print | E-mail
Written by Thomas R. Eddlem
Thursday, 25 June 2009 10:00 Ford Motor Company was supposed to be the only major U.S. automaker not in need of a bailout, but this week Ford accepted a $5.9 billion loan subsidy under the Energy Independence and Security Act of 2007 (EISA). The EISA loan is designed to help the auto industry by supporting ?capital investments in facilities designed to produce vehicles with greater fuel efficiency and reduced emissions.?

It?s not a ?bailout,? Ford executives would likely argue, on the basis that the money is a loan. But would Ford have been able to obtain the same amount of money and the same interest rate in the free market? To what extent is the loan (the difference between the government-provided loan and what the free market would offer) a subsidy? Undoubtedly, a $5.4 billion infusion of cash from already tapped-out taxpayers for doing what Ford was presumably already doing with their business model won't hurt their cash flow. And coming in a tough year for the auto industry, it was probably even more welcomed. so..... Ford mortgaged everything they could while the credit markets were functioning, and took from the Feds too

Unions got a sweetheart of a deal. Didn't work out to well for bondholders.

Will they start producing quality vehicles people want at a good value will determine success. Success is ultimately financial independence.

Not exactly.

Since bondholders are in higher the debt structure at least they got something.

The Revenge Of The GM Bondholders | The Truth About Cars

That's more than stockholders got.

So what if they lost...that's capitalism. Anyone buying a 20 or 30 year GM bond in the last 10 years was taking a big risk.

Not exactly.

Since bondholders are in higher the debt structure at least they got something.

The Revenge Of The GM Bondholders | The Truth About Cars

That's more than stockholders got.

So what if they lost...that's capitalism. Anyone buying a 20 or 30 year GM bond in the last 10 years was taking a big risk.

Capitalism wasn't at play here.

Capitalism wasn't at play here.

That's how I feel about the current state of our country. The largest corporations and the wealthiest individuals are manipulating the populace and our elected officials into making them bigger and wealthier.

It seems that the people who stand the most to benefit from reform are being duped into fighting against it.

GM stock is lower than the IPO now. Not shaping up to be a good move.

Geo:

There should never have been a surge because we never should have invaded Iraq, We invested far too much blood and treasure with little to show for it. So tactically the surge was a success but strategically the war was a failure.

There should never have been a repayment of bailout money from GM because there never should have been a bailout. Too much treasure invested with too little to show for it. Short-term ok, long-term disaster.

The costs of these two mistakes will haunt our children and grandchildren.

GM stock is lower than the IPO now. Not shaping up to be a good move.

It's a great time to buy.