Tipping

Teresa, so different opinions are good & interesting...

Andhy A - no, this poster will need a big attitude adjustment and perhaps a lesson in how to participate and share opinions in an open public forum, before being welcome, imo. Different opinions = good & interesting. Bad manners = not cool.

...as long as they agree with your opinion. There is nothing here about "bad manners". The point of discussion was Jill/jodiFl defending unacceptable behavior in the workplace by accepting poor service and rewarding bad behavior. Nothing "fallacious" about not accepting poor service and there was nothing in the original post that stated I had experienced poor service. You really need to stay focused on the original point of discussion. But calling names is a "cheap" shot and that is "bad manners = not cool" but I guess that is ok because it agrees with your point. And Fishhead I am not the one who made the original comment about "jumping ship for a dollar". I believe that was an owner. And why shouldn't that owner expect some loyallty? And Teresa is proposing that the solution is to "just leave if the service is bad". That goes right back to accepting poor behavior and at the same time penalizes the restaurant. Not going to do that.

Sorry guys your retorts are not worthy of further discussion if you are not going to stay focused on the original premise. Weak responses! And Teresa you are supposed to be a journalist?

The "ya owe me a tip attitude" by the servers posting in this thread reeks of entitlement and is an obnoxious attitude..and i am one who tips generously and also can only recall a few bad experiences in The 30A Area ever..as for the poster who was complaining about Tip Jars popping up elsewhere i just totally agree..real pet peeve of mine when you ses them at Starbucks..Sandwich Shops..Ice Cream Stands..etc

what are folks opinions on tipping at places like the seagrove market and cowgirl kitchen where you order and pay at a register, you get your own drink....they bring you the food? i usually leave something because i like the people there, but i'm never sure what they expect, or is customary in this situation.

"Karma", enough said.

Thanks, RTR! I don't know about Cowgirl Kitchen but, as I work at the Market, I don't mind addressing that question. Lunchtime service IS a little different, in that you don't have just ONE server but a whole team of servers who are working very hard to give you the best possible experience. It is an extremely fast-paced lunch crowd, and it does get very hectic. In addition to taking your order, and bringing your food out to the table, the servers (and, for the record, I DON'T work lunch shift) are working very hard to ensure that everyone is supplied with condiments (because of the high volume of traffic, the condiment bottles are refilled several times throughout the day) making sure that you have any extras you require--salad dressings, crackers, extra plates/baskets, etc. and bussing the tables after you leave. They often have to hunt people down to get food to them, as people tend to wander around the shop/outside while they wait, and it is difficult to walk from one end of the restaurant to the other without having someone grab your arm and need additional service. Kindly remember that just because YOU are an "easy customer" whose food is dropped off, you eat, and you're out the door; not ALL customers are so quickly helped. It can be a tricky thing to manuever through families with small children and large parties who end up seated at different corners of the restaurant.

That being said, the serving team at lunch IS paid a "server's wage" which is far less than typical minimum wage and is subsidized with tips. When you tip them, the money is placed in a central tip jar and divided at the end of the day between all team members, because all of the members are working together to make it happen. Your tips are very much appreciated, even if it's only a dollar or two. Obviously, it is not typical "full-service" dining, but please do not underestimate that the team works very, very hard in a very fast-paced setting. Those of us who work there LOVE the job, and we love our customers! It is an awesome thing to work in such a fantastic establishment where we get the same customers year after year, and get to enjoy serving you, and seeing families and children grow and change. We are always grateful for our regulars and happy to see new customers, and appreciate the continued business!

If you eat out, accept the system as it is and don't be a buzz kill. Experiments are for laboratories. A standard has developed in this country, and changing it would be like trying to get us to speak a different language. Are there not more pressing issues? Eating and drinking out is a game with rules both written and unwritten. There are no 100% absolutes. Anyway, what's not to like about the fact that you get stronger drinks if you tip well?

I actually do prefer the European model. Not as much feigned sincerity, upselling (that is thankfully not really a problem here), etc. However, an owner would influence how attentive his servers were to diners, since they would be more financially accountable to the owner than the customer. The restaurant does well and the servers do well.

As for the buzzkill, I responded to a Tipping thread in the dining section of our community message board. I didn't go in with a big party and demand to speak to the owner to tell them they are doing it all wrong. I think most of the pushback is from the aforementioned tip jars popping up everywhere and the standard increasing from 15 to 18 to 20 percent. Besides, "this is how we've always done it in America" isn't the most sound argument for continuing to do something.

All that said, I've played the hand the system dealt since before I could legally drink. And thankfully few restaurant owners have a background in economics or we would have far fewer restaurants from which to choose.

I was differentiating between businesses where the workers are paid below minimum wage because they are tipped and jobs where the hourly wage is well above minimum wage because they are not expected to earn tips.

I get annoyed when I am supposed to tip for them simply doing their job in the latter scenario. I am happy to tip in the former scenario.

I actually do prefer the European model. Not as much feigned sincerity, upselling (that is thankfully not really a problem here), etc. However, an owner would influence how attentive his servers were to diners, since they would be more financially accountable to the owner than the customer. The restaurant does well and the servers do well.

As for the buzzkill, I responded to a Tipping thread in the dining section of our community message board. I didn't go in with a big party and demand to speak to the owner to tell them they are doing it all wrong. I think most of the pushback is from the aforementioned tip jars popping up everywhere and the standard increasing from 15 to 18 to 20 percent. Besides, "this is how we've always done it in America" isn't the most sound argument for continuing to do something.

All that said, I've played the hand the system dealt since before I could legally drink. And thankfully few restaurant owners have a background in economics or we would have far fewer restaurants from which to choose.

I'm not trying to paint a positive or flattering picture of eating or drinking out. At the same time, I really like it for all it's shall I say weirdness (from both customers and employees). I absolutely agree with you that the "this is how we've always done it" argument is not a good one. I realize that's how it might have come across, so I apologize about that. I really was directing that at people who won't accept that at this moment, that's how the system is set up. I can't believe I know people who still think tipping is optional. They tend to look down on the servers too.

I think the reason for our current system is simply because a lot of people, both customers and servers like it that way. It's also ingrained in our performance oriented competitive culture for one thing. Our culture would have to change before anything. Like I said, it's kind of a game or a sport. I'm sure that the good bartenders and servers who get big tips like it that way. The big tipping customer gets special attention, especially if he's a regular. Some people just enjoy spending lots of money in order to look like a big shot. The system is not fair, and all men/women costumers are not equal. I don't know if it's the best system, but I think there is much to like about it.

I think Americans are too high strung adrenaline junkies to adopt the European model. This is just one picture of it. Maybe it's kind of a stereotype, but I think there's a lot of truth to it. I think overall, the tip system has the potential to get you better more gracious service. Is it insincere? Maybe, but it's a game that many are willing to play and pay for.

I think tripping is only for the people who can handle it, and have done plenty of recreational drugs beforehand...oh wait, I may have misread the thread title...

I'm not trying to paint a positive or flattering picture of eating or drinking out. At the same time, I really like it for all it's shall I say weirdness (from both customers and employees). I absolutely agree with you that the "this is how we've always done it" argument is not a good one. I realize that's how it might have come across, so I apologize about that. I really was directing that at people who won't accept that at this moment, that's how the system is set up. I can't believe I know people who still think tipping is optional. They tend to look down on the servers too.

I think the reason for our current system is simply because a lot of people, both customers and servers like it that way. It's also ingrained in our performance oriented competitive culture for one thing. Our culture would have to change before anything. Like I said, it's kind of a game or a sport. I'm sure that the good bartenders and servers who get big tips like it that way. The big tipping customer gets special attention, especially if he's a regular. Some people just enjoy spending lots of money in order to look like a big shot. The system is not fair, and all men/women costumers are not equal. I don't know if it's the best system, but I think there is much to like about it.

I think Americans are too high strung adrenaline junkies to adopt the European model. This is just one picture of it. Maybe it's kind of a stereotype, but I think there's a lot of truth to it. I think overall, the tip system has the potential to get you better more gracious service. Is it insincere? Maybe, but it's a game that many are willing to play and pay for.

I actually agree with pretty much all of that. While I've never worked in a restaurant, the entitlement and contempt that diners sometimes display towards staff really annoys me. They treat servers that way because they are the ones paying them, and feel the right to play employer. The guy who lays out cash on the table and removes it as he feels his service is inferior sounds like a nouveau riche, pretentious ass. He emphasizes his higher station in life and dangles money over his server's head to have them dance.

I think if owners removed the tip line and paid the servers a normalized wage, they would have fewer patrons treating their staff like the help. Aligning incentives between owners and staff is just an added bonus.

I actually agree with pretty much all of that. While I've never worked in a restaurant, the entitlement and contempt that diners sometimes display towards staff really annoys me. They treat servers that way because they are the ones paying them, and feel the right to play employer. The guy who lays out cash on the table and removes it as he feels his service is inferior sounds like a nouveau riche, pretentious ass. He emphasizes his higher station in life and dangles money over his server's head to have them dance.

I think if owners removed the tip line and paid the servers a normalized wage, they would have fewer patrons treating their staff like the help. Aligning incentives between owners and staff is just an added bonus.

I've only worked in a restaurant (kitchen) for about six months. I've done another two years of kitchen work at an establishment. I don't think it's because they feel like the employer. Some people are just arrogant bossy, mean cruel SOBs by nature and may not even know it. The thing is, the really good server can tear apart these a-holes and make really good wage.

I actually do prefer the European model.

I can't agree with you. Wasn't it the European model that caused all the problems with national debt and bank closures in Cyprus?

Oh. No.... Wait. That was an entirely different kabuki.....

I have several friends in the waitservice industry. Candidly, they have confided they believe in the 20-40-60% rule.

20%, they consider an average tip. 40%, they consider a good tip. 60% of their tips is what they report as their tax earnings. That is between them, and the IRS. I'm not going there.....!

...as long as they agree with your opinion. There is nothing here about "bad manners". The point of discussion was Jill/jodiFl defending unacceptable behavior in the workplace by accepting poor service and rewarding bad behavior. Nothing "fallacious" about not accepting poor service and there was nothing in the original post that stated I had experienced poor service. You really need to stay focused on the original point of discussion. But calling names is a "cheap" shot and that is "bad manners = not cool" but I guess that is ok because it agrees with your point. And Fishhead I am not the one who made the original comment about "jumping ship for a dollar". I believe that was an owner. And why shouldn't that owner expect some loyallty? And Teresa is proposing that the solution is to "just leave if the service is bad". That goes right back to accepting poor behavior and at the same time penalizes the restaurant. Not going to do that.

Sorry guys your retorts are not worthy of further discussion if you are not going to stay focused on the original premise. Weak responses! And Teresa you are supposed to be a journalist?

I enjoy reading all different opinions and learn much from them along with many other SoWal readers. Everyone has their own experience and perspective and everyone is correct.. unless they demean others in the process. Please try to communicate with respect or find another forum more suitable for your taste.

I think tripping is only for the people who can handle it, and have done plenty of recreational drugs beforehand...oh wait, I may have misread the thread title...

I once left a wrong strange tip.

So I guess you enjoyed reading.....

I enjoy reading all different opinions and learn much from them along with many other SoWal readers. Everyone has their own experience and perspective and everyone is correct.. unless they demean others in the process. Please try to communicate with respect or find another forum more suitable for your taste.

LuciferSam's moronic post above. And that's not demeaning??!! I'm beginning to believe your "legend" status is going to your head and clouding your objectivity. I promise I will not demean myself with another response to you.

sanctimonious, arrogant and cheap, a charming combination.

LuciferSam's moronic post above. And that's not demeaning??!! I'm beginning to believe your "legend" status is going to your head and clouding your objectivity. I promise I will not demean myself with another response to you.

LuciferSam is at least entertaining and no he doesn't demean other posters unless provoked so be warned ... We just ask for common courtesy and respect for others. Sometimes it takes practice.

LuciferSam's moronic post above. And that's not demeaning??!! I'm beginning to believe your "legend" status is going to your head and clouding your objectivity. I promise I will not demean myself with another response to you.

Is your post an April fools joke?

I can't figure out de meaning of her post either...

Tipping is very much still at the customer's discretion. A reward for good service. So, nobody else gets tipped unless they are doing something special to deserve it, like manual labor or an extra errand, or giving me some sort of special treatment. That's why it's annoying how this culture is held hostage by guilt when it comes to tipping. The pay should be worked out with their employers or the state not the patrons.

I tip big. I have seen what happens behind the scene to people that don't tip well. Just saying. Don't go back if you are cheap. The servers remember you if your cheap or rude and they can have lots of fun with you... Oh, the stories I could tell.

Tipping is very much still at the customer's discretion. A reward for good service. So, nobody else gets tipped unless they are doing something special to deserve it, like manual labor or an extra errand, or giving me some sort of special treatment. That's why it's annoying how this culture is held hostage by guilt when it comes to tipping. The pay should be worked out with their employers or the state not the patrons.

It is not "guilt", it is common decency. A tip is for good service and caring by the server. I can count on one hand the number of times I have been treated rudely or blown off by a server here in SoWal. Servers have a very difficult and challenging job. They deserve what they get. "The pay should be worked out with their employers or the state not the patrons." is pure bull crap! I'm glad I'll never have the displeasure of waiting on you.

Andy, I agree with you. Overall the service industry is very good in Sowal and it can be a very expensive place to live, especially if you are trying to be a full-time resident. I had the pleasure of spending most of my twenties in the area and saw first hand how important that extra dollar of a tip was for my friends. I am happy to be able to give a little more so that those who are busting their tails can get a little.