Toyota Pruis

on a completely unrelated note: love your tar (been paying much closer attention to these!)

Awww, thanks! Shot it myself just before running for cover...:leaving:

Like I said in a previous post - we have nothing in common and look forward to running away from each other as fast as we can....

So I hit the nail on the head?

So I hit the nail on the head?

6th gen,
Please! - if it makes you feel better to think you have hit the nail on the head with me - well then by all means be my guest -you have me accurately pinned down! OK?

Moving on now.....

For the additional skeptics out there-spoke at length yesterday to a Pruis owner - I accosted her in the supermarket and although she had no idea what hit her, we had informative talk about the additional pros and cons of this car (outside of mileage and hybrid) - no surprises - lots of talk about comfort and convenience (nice hatchback at rear) - new ones come equipped with the screen that shows you what is happening behind your car (although I for one will never become used to NOT turning around and looking at rear when I need to manoeuver backwards), and other smaller conveniences that are becoming standard in most cars anyways (ipod plug-in, bluetooth technology, etc.) - and the biggest con in her mind (which dovetails with what I said earlier) - that acceleration is so so and Pruis is not for someone interested in peeling off at a green light.

Now we just need to time perfectly when to buy in terms of getting absolutely best terms- seems that best time might be around labor day when 2008 models come out - any thoughts out there???

When we bought our last car (a VW Passat - HORRIBLE btw: I will never buy another VW in my life - we have had horrible luck with both our jetta and passat - one bought brand new and one bought used) - we purchased it at end of month quite by chance and dealer was dying to clear his lot so we supposedly got better deal -who knows though if this was true though??????!!!!!

For the additional skeptics out there-spoke at length yesterday to a Pruis owner - I accosted her in the supermarket and although she had no idea what hit her, we had informative talk about the additional pros and cons of this car (outside of mileage and hybrid) - no surprises - lots of talk about comfort and convenience (nice hatchback at rear) - new ones come equipped with the screen that shows you what is happening behind your car (although I for one will never become used to NOT turning around and looking at rear when I need to manoeuver backwards), and other smaller conveniences that are becoming standard in most cars anyways (ipod plug-in, bluetooth technology, etc.) - and the biggest con in her mind (which dovetails with what I said earlier) - that acceleration is so so and Pruis is not for someone interested in peeling off at a green light.

Now we just need to time perfectly when to buy in terms of getting absolutely best terms- seems that best time might be around labor day when 2008 models come out - any thoughts out there???

When we bought our last car (a VW Passat - HORRIBLE btw: I will never buy another VW in my life - we have had horrible luck with both our jetta and passat - one bought brand new and one bought used) - we purchased it at end of month quite by chance and dealer was dying to clear his lot so we supposedly got better deal -who knows though if this was true though??????!!!!!

End of month is good! Especially if the dealership hasn't met their monthly sales goal yet ..... ;-)

As they say, prepare to walk out. We walked out 3 times and they came after us the last time catching us as we were driving out of the lot. They'll call you the next day!

I got to where I have fun with the "game". ...... but mr. rita doesn't care for the dealing. He just sits back and shrugs!

.

For the additional skeptics out there-spoke at length yesterday to a Pruis owner - I accosted her in the supermarket and although she had no idea what hit her, we had informative talk about the additional pros and cons of this car (outside of mileage and hybrid) - no surprises - lots of talk about comfort and convenience (nice hatchback at rear) - new ones come equipped with the screen that shows you what is happening behind your car (although I for one will never become used to NOT turning around and looking at rear when I need to manoeuver backwards), and other smaller conveniences that are becoming standard in most cars anyways (ipod plug-in, bluetooth technology, etc.) - and the biggest con in her mind (which dovetails with what I said earlier) - that acceleration is so so and Pruis is not for someone interested in peeling off at a green light.

Now we just need to time perfectly when to buy in terms of getting absolutely best terms- seems that best time might be around labor day when 2008 models come out - any thoughts out there???

When we bought our last car (a VW Passat - HORRIBLE btw: I will never buy another VW in my life - we have had horrible luck with both our jetta and passat - one bought brand new and one bought used) - we purchased it at end of month quite by chance and dealer was dying to clear his lot so we supposedly got better deal -who knows though if this was true though??????!!!!!

End of the month is an excellent time to purchase. We purchased the last 3 cars that way and got really good deals. Below is an interesting and lengthy article about the tactics used by a car salesman. Pretty true with our last purchase.

http://www.edmunds.com/advice/buying/articles/42962/article.html

Good luck!!!

End of the month is an excellent time to purchase. We purchased the last 3 cars that way and got really good deals. Below is an interesting and lengthy article about the tactics used by a car salesman. Pretty true with our last purchase.

http://www.edmunds.com/advice/buying/articles/42962/article.html

Good luck!!!

Thank you for this post and help!

You should be able to get the total inclusive price (including taxes, delivery charges, etc), down to the sticker price on the window. If you do not, come see me, and I'll tell you how to get there. Buy me a cup of tea, and I'll tell you how to do it without wasting trips and time to the dealership. It is a pain in the booty driving to Ft Walton or PC to play games with those guys. I'm all for a good game, but not when it requires fighting all of that traffic. Playing their game via email is much easier and involves less time.


Also, I believe someone else mentioned waiting unitl the 2008 models come out, and that, might mean more incentive.

You should be able to get the total inclusive price (including taxes, delivery charges, etc), down to the sticker price on the window. If you do not, come see me, and I'll tell you how to get there. Buy me a cup of tea, and I'll tell you how to do it without wasting trips and time to the dealership. It is a pain in the booty driving to Ft Walton or PC to play games with those guys. I'm all for a good game, but not when it requires fighting all of that traffic. Playing their game via email is much easier and involves less time.


Also, I believe someone else mentioned waiting unitl the 2008 models come out, and that, might mean more incentive.

SJ,
So sweet as always and we will take you up on your offer and have you over for tea or wine/beer- your choice. I have always been pathetic at bargaining. And unless our piece of crap passat dies, we are hoping we can wait till September to take advantage of incentives to get rid of 2007 models....

Chickpea,
Not to throw in any more monkey wrenches into this thread, but did you see the article written by Matthew Christ, a senior at South Walton High School in this past Walton Sun (page A9)?

BTW, I find the article and this thread to be very coincidental!

Underlined is the part I found most interesting... and no, I don't drive a Hummer.


America needs more environmentally friendly car options

Last month, the Toyota Prius, the poster car for all wannabe tree huggers sold the highest level of units for one month, a total 24,009 cars, making it the ninth best selling car in America for the month of May.
This record number helped hybrid cars capture two percent of the total automotive market in America, a fi gure that many industry experts believed would never be achieved until after this decade.
This is absolutely horrible news.
Americans are being duped out of their money. Toyota lured the public into thinking that the Prius is an economical, environmentally friendly car, when it plainly isn?t.
Obviously, I dislike Priuses. I think they?re uglier than dead catfi sh, and worst yet, fraudulent.
The basic premise on why one would buy a Prius, is that they would be helping the environment. This is just rubbish.
The Prius is a Super Ultra Low Emissions Vehicle, meaning that the car emits minimal and cleaner than normal emissions. This fact would certainly satisfy most suburban environment-conscience buyers, and it does. But there?s something that they need to know.
There is a term used in the automotive industry called ?energy cost,? which measures the energy needed to build, drive, sell and even dispose of a vehicle. The energy cost is a fi gure that is incredibly hard to find. Fortunately for the American consumer, there are people out there that do not fi nd data analysis as boring as I do. CNW Marketing Research, an independent company based out of Oregon published energy cost findings in December of last year.
And just what did they fi nd?
The energy cost for a Prius is high, with an average cost of $3.25 per mile, higher than a Hummer H1, which comes in at $1.95. Again, the energy cost covers multiple variables.
The high energy cost of the Prius is primarily caused by the construction of the car. For instance, the energy cost of a Prius would include the energy needed to produce the nickel for the battery that aids in propelling the car. The nickel used in the Prius is mined from a vain out of Sudburry, Ontario. The process to convert that nickel to a medium that can be used by the Prius is a 10,000-mile trek that would give any environmentalist a coronary.
Yet to sample: the nickel is first mined, then smelted, and when the process is fi nally fi nished the environmental impact only leaves the Sudburry factory even more biologically drained. In fact, the Sudburry nickel plant has created an environment surrounding the plant that is so desolate, so sparse, that NASA now uses it to model what conditions are like on the moon. The environment in the Sudburry area was not like this before the plant began catering to the Prius.
I readily admit that if you drive the Prius the way that it was supposed to be driven (think of how the world?s oldest person would drive) it will achieve exceptional gas mileage. And yes, the emissions ratings are superb, but that only takes into account the energy of the car while being driven, not the energy that was wasted to create the Citroen wannabe Prius.
When we take this ?hidden energy? into account, the Prius becomes a hugely uneconomical car, and very eco-unfriendly. It makes the Prius driver look as foolish as the Hummer H2 driver, (do they really take those Hummers off road?).
This country came to an energy crossroad 30 years ago. At that time, we had a choice to make. We could continue our addiction to oil or we could find an alternative energy source. We chose to continue the wretched addiction. Today, more than a quarter-century later, with gas prices rising and the stability of oil sources in question, we stand at that same crossroad again.
So the Prius technology isn?t as environmentally friendly as we would like to think. Yet, this country still needs to find a way to transport itself, which is economically and ecologically friendly, so what do we do?
Solar technology isn?t fully developed, so for now at least, that?s out of the equation. Hydrogen technology is currently being developed extensively by the BMW AG group, but unless the technology can be safely accessed, don?t plan on buying a hydrogen BMW anytime soon. The same applies towards E-85 ethanol. Currently only a sprinkling of fi lling stations that offer E-85 have sprung up across the country, and I don?t expect many more since the price of corn products is linked to the supply of E-85 ethanol.
Another alternative is electricity. Tesla Motor Corporation is a private business based out of California that will begin to offer an electric sports car later this year, which will accelerate faster than the top Ferrari model and drive for over three hours on a single charge. While this technology is promising, and in this columnist?s view potentially viable, it is still costly. Unless you have $100,000 to spend on what is basically still a concept car.
So where does this leave us? Diesel. Clean diesel technology is not only viable but available. Current diesel cars can achieve exceptional mileage, which lessens our dependency on foreign oil, and have relatively clean emission ratings with low energy costs ? all without sacrificing engine performance.
True, it may not have the cachet of the Toyota Prius, but then, it doesn?t carry the premium price tag either.
Or the ugliness.
Matthew Christ is a senior at South Walton High School and a resident of Santa Rosa Beach. You can contact him at thewaltonsun@gmail.com.

</IMG>
YOUNG WISDOM
Matthew Christ

Chickpea,
Not to throw in any more monkey wrenches into this thread, but did you see the article written by Matthew Christ, a senior at South Walton High School in this past Walton Sun (page A9)?

BTW, I find the article and this thread to be very coincidental!

Underlined is the part I found most interesting... and no, I don't drive a Hummer.


America needs more environmentally friendly car options

Last month, the Toyota Prius, the poster car for all wannabe tree huggers sold the highest level of units for one month, a total 24,009 cars, making it the ninth best selling car in America for the month of May.
This record number helped hybrid cars capture two percent of the total automotive market in America, a fi gure that many industry experts believed would never be achieved until after this decade.
This is absolutely horrible news.
Americans are being duped out of their money. Toyota lured the public into thinking that the Prius is an economical, environmentally friendly car, when it plainly isn?t.
Obviously, I dislike Priuses. I think they?re uglier than dead catfi sh, and worst yet, fraudulent.
The basic premise on why one would buy a Prius, is that they would be helping the environment. This is just rubbish.
The Prius is a Super Ultra Low Emissions Vehicle, meaning that the car emits minimal and cleaner than normal emissions. This fact would certainly satisfy most suburban environment-conscience buyers, and it does. But there?s something that they need to know.
There is a term used in the automotive industry called ?energy cost,? which measures the energy needed to build, drive, sell and even dispose of a vehicle. The energy cost is a fi gure that is incredibly hard to find. Fortunately for the American consumer, there are people out there that do not fi nd data analysis as boring as I do. CNW Marketing Research, an independent company based out of Oregon published energy cost findings in December of last year.
And just what did they fi nd?
The energy cost for a Prius is high, with an average cost of $3.25 per mile, higher than a Hummer H1, which comes in at $1.95. Again, the energy cost covers multiple variables.
The high energy cost of the Prius is primarily caused by the construction of the car. For instance, the energy cost of a Prius would include the energy needed to produce the nickel for the battery that aids in propelling the car. The nickel used in the Prius is mined from a vain out of Sudburry, Ontario. The process to convert that nickel to a medium that can be used by the Prius is a 10,000-mile trek that would give any environmentalist a coronary.
Yet to sample: the nickel is first mined, then smelted, and when the process is fi nally fi nished the environmental impact only leaves the Sudburry factory even more biologically drained. In fact, the Sudburry nickel plant has created an environment surrounding the plant that is so desolate, so sparse, that NASA now uses it to model what conditions are like on the moon. The environment in the Sudburry area was not like this before the plant began catering to the Prius.
I readily admit that if you drive the Prius the way that it was supposed to be driven (think of how the world?s oldest person would drive) it will achieve exceptional gas mileage. And yes, the emissions ratings are superb, but that only takes into account the energy of the car while being driven, not the energy that was wasted to create the Citroen wannabe Prius.
When we take this ?hidden energy? into account, the Prius becomes a hugely uneconomical car, and very eco-unfriendly. It makes the Prius driver look as foolish as the Hummer H2 driver, (do they really take those Hummers off road?).
This country came to an energy crossroad 30 years ago. At that time, we had a choice to make. We could continue our addiction to oil or we could find an alternative energy source. We chose to continue the wretched addiction. Today, more than a quarter-century later, with gas prices rising and the stability of oil sources in question, we stand at that same crossroad again.
So the Prius technology isn?t as environmentally friendly as we would like to think. Yet, this country still needs to find a way to transport itself, which is economically and ecologically friendly, so what do we do?
Solar technology isn?t fully developed, so for now at least, that?s out of the equation. Hydrogen technology is currently being developed extensively by the BMW AG group, but unless the technology can be safely accessed, don?t plan on buying a hydrogen BMW anytime soon. The same applies towards E-85 ethanol. Currently only a sprinkling of fi lling stations that offer E-85 have sprung up across the country, and I don?t expect many more since the price of corn products is linked to the supply of E-85 ethanol.
Another alternative is electricity. Tesla Motor Corporation is a private business based out of California that will begin to offer an electric sports car later this year, which will accelerate faster than the top Ferrari model and drive for over three hours on a single charge. While this technology is promising, and in this columnist?s view potentially viable, it is still costly. Unless you have $100,000 to spend on what is basically still a concept car.
So where does this leave us? Diesel. Clean diesel technology is not only viable but available. Current diesel cars can achieve exceptional mileage, which lessens our dependency on foreign oil, and have relatively clean emission ratings with low energy costs ? all without sacrificing engine performance.
True, it may not have the cachet of the Toyota Prius, but then, it doesn?t carry the premium price tag either.
Or the ugliness.
Matthew Christ is a senior at South Walton High School and a resident of Santa Rosa Beach. You can contact him at thewaltonsun@gmail.com.

</IMG>
YOUNG WISDOM
Matthew Christ

This sounds terribly familiar.....can we just agree to let Chickpea get the hippie car and be done with it?;-)

If that article was actually written by a 9th grader, I'll buy him a shot of vodka. Sounds like someone is spewing out of the mouths of parents.

I wonder where all the parts of a Hummer are produced. Especially all of that extra rubber for off road tires which are not used off road.

If that article was actually written by a 9th grader, I'll buy him a shot of vodka. Sounds like someone is spewing out of the mouths of parents.

Matthew is a senior, so he's in 12th grade. I have every confidence this was written by him. Very bright boy.

Chickpea,
Not to throw in any more monkey wrenches into this thread, but did you see the article written by Matthew Christ, a senior at South Walton High School in this past Walton Sun (page A9)?

BTW, I find the article and this thread to be very coincidental!

Underlined is the part I found most interesting... and no, I don't drive a Hummer.


America needs more environmentally friendly car options

Last month, the Toyota Prius, the poster car for all wannabe tree huggers sold the highest level of units for one month, a total 24,009 cars, making it the ninth best selling car in America for the month of May.
This record number helped hybrid cars capture two percent of the total automotive market in America, a fi gure that many industry experts believed would never be achieved until after this decade.
This is absolutely horrible news.
Americans are being duped out of their money. Toyota lured the public into thinking that the Prius is an economical, environmentally friendly car, when it plainly isn?t.
Obviously, I dislike Priuses. I think they?re uglier than dead catfi sh, and worst yet, fraudulent.
The basic premise on why one would buy a Prius, is that they would be helping the environment. This is just rubbish.
The Prius is a Super Ultra Low Emissions Vehicle, meaning that the car emits minimal and cleaner than normal emissions. This fact would certainly satisfy most suburban environment-conscience buyers, and it does. But there?s something that they need to know.
There is a term used in the automotive industry called ?energy cost,? which measures the energy needed to build, drive, sell and even dispose of a vehicle. The energy cost is a fi gure that is incredibly hard to find. Fortunately for the American consumer, there are people out there that do not fi nd data analysis as boring as I do. CNW Marketing Research, an independent company based out of Oregon published energy cost findings in December of last year.
And just what did they fi nd?
The energy cost for a Prius is high, with an average cost of $3.25 per mile, higher than a Hummer H1, which comes in at $1.95. Again, the energy cost covers multiple variables.
The high energy cost of the Prius is primarily caused by the construction of the car. For instance, the energy cost of a Prius would include the energy needed to produce the nickel for the battery that aids in propelling the car. The nickel used in the Prius is mined from a vain out of Sudburry, Ontario. The process to convert that nickel to a medium that can be used by the Prius is a 10,000-mile trek that would give any environmentalist a coronary.
Yet to sample: the nickel is first mined, then smelted, and when the process is fi nally fi nished the environmental impact only leaves the Sudburry factory even more biologically drained. In fact, the Sudburry nickel plant has created an environment surrounding the plant that is so desolate, so sparse, that NASA now uses it to model what conditions are like on the moon. The environment in the Sudburry area was not like this before the plant began catering to the Prius.
I readily admit that if you drive the Prius the way that it was supposed to be driven (think of how the world?s oldest person would drive) it will achieve exceptional gas mileage. And yes, the emissions ratings are superb, but that only takes into account the energy of the car while being driven, not the energy that was wasted to create the Citroen wannabe Prius.
When we take this ?hidden energy? into account, the Prius becomes a hugely uneconomical car, and very eco-unfriendly. It makes the Prius driver look as foolish as the Hummer H2 driver, (do they really take those Hummers off road?).
This country came to an energy crossroad 30 years ago. At that time, we had a choice to make. We could continue our addiction to oil or we could find an alternative energy source. We chose to continue the wretched addiction. Today, more than a quarter-century later, with gas prices rising and the stability of oil sources in question, we stand at that same crossroad again.
So the Prius technology isn?t as environmentally friendly as we would like to think. Yet, this country still needs to find a way to transport itself, which is economically and ecologically friendly, so what do we do?
Solar technology isn?t fully developed, so for now at least, that?s out of the equation. Hydrogen technology is currently being developed extensively by the BMW AG group, but unless the technology can be safely accessed, don?t plan on buying a hydrogen BMW anytime soon. The same applies towards E-85 ethanol. Currently only a sprinkling of fi lling stations that offer E-85 have sprung up across the country, and I don?t expect many more since the price of corn products is linked to the supply of E-85 ethanol.
Another alternative is electricity. Tesla Motor Corporation is a private business based out of California that will begin to offer an electric sports car later this year, which will accelerate faster than the top Ferrari model and drive for over three hours on a single charge. While this technology is promising, and in this columnist?s view potentially viable, it is still costly. Unless you have $100,000 to spend on what is basically still a concept car.
So where does this leave us? Diesel. Clean diesel technology is not only viable but available. Current diesel cars can achieve exceptional mileage, which lessens our dependency on foreign oil, and have relatively clean emission ratings with low energy costs ? all without sacrificing engine performance.
True, it may not have the cachet of the Toyota Prius, but then, it doesn?t carry the premium price tag either.
Or the ugliness.
Matthew Christ is a senior at South Walton High School and a resident of Santa Rosa Beach. You can contact him at thewaltonsun@gmail.com.

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YOUNG WISDOM
Matthew Christ

Honda and Toyota will have deisel vehicles out in 1 or 2 years. Toyota is working on lithium-ion battery technology while Detroit whines to congress about raising CAFE requirements. Get a life!

I have read that Honda is discontinuing the Accord hybrid and switching to a diesel version that supposedly achieves 45+ mpg.

Chickpea, and other Prius owners, out of curiosity, what do you keep your home and officer thermostat on in July and January, respectively?

Chickpea, one helpful thing I did when buying my car was research the true cost of each "add-on" and "option" prior to negotiating. Playing hard to get isn't a bad thing either.

Car salesman hate dealing with my family because we do our homework, call them on their BS (loved it when my father told a salesman that getting a $1200 navigation system for $600 wasn't a deal if he 1) didn't want the damn thing 2) could get a GPS for $100), shop around for the best deal, and hold firm during negotiations.

Matthew is a senior, so he's in 12th grade. I have every confidence this was written by him. Very bright boy.

I've seen other articles written by matthew - very insightful and inspiring.

If that article was actually written by a 9th grader, I'll buy him a shot of vodka. Sounds like someone is spewing out of the mouths of parents.

I wonder where all the parts of a Hummer are produced. Especially all of that extra rubber for off road tires which are not used off road.

New hit T.V. sequel...

"Are you smarter than a 9th grader?
or a senior?
or whatever?"

This sounds terribly familiar.....can we just agree to let Chickpea get the hippie car and be done with it?;-)

Both sides of any argument sound "terribly familiar". The article was interesting and appropriate for the thread because it came from a LOCAL student who appeared to have thought for himself (his Dad works for EXXON, mother for GM, - just kidding!).

However, you're absolutely right. Chickpea should be able to buy any car she desires including a Hummer with pink flowers painted all over it . But if she buys a Prius, Mathew Christ's words will haunt her...
"True, it may not have the cachet of the Toyota Prius, but then, it doesn’t carry the premium price tag either.
Or the ugliness."

I personally don't think they're that ugly...just "noticeable" ;-) .

Which goes to the point that the Prius is more of an environmentalist status symbol than a environmentally sound car or a well performing one. Prius is to hippies what Hummers are to men with Napoleonic complexes, only worse for the environment.

But Hummers come with a glove box full of viagra !

Both sides of any argument sound "terribly familiar". The article was interesting and appropriate for the thread because it came from a LOCAL student who appeared to have thought for himself (his Dad works for EXXON, mother for GM, - just kidding!).

After hearing the Sean Hannities of the world speak, I disagree that this student created this article out of his own thoughts.

C
There is a term used in the automotive industry called ?energy cost,? which measures the energy needed to build, drive, sell and even dispose of a vehicle. The energy cost is a fi gure that is incredibly hard to find.
The energy cost for a Prius is high, with an average cost of $3.25 per mile, higher than a Hummer H1, which comes in at $1.95. Again, the energy cost covers multiple variables.
The high energy cost of the Prius is primarily caused by the construction of the car. For instance, the energy cost of a Prius would include the energy needed to produce the nickel for the battery that aids in propelling the car. The nickel used in the Prius is mined from a vain out of Sudburry, Ontario. The process to convert that nickel to a medium that can be used by the Prius is a 10,000-mile trek that would give any environmentalist a coronary.

This argument/article is based on misleading and out of date information. The information is from a marketing firm, not an independent reasearcher (3 guesses who paid for the study) and doesn't exactly compare apples and apples. To begin with, they assume a Prius has a 100,000 mile lifespan and a Hummer has a 300,000 life span.

The main argument against the Prius seems to be the enviromental damage at the Sudbury plant.......which occurred in the 70s and 80s! This information is outdated and inaccurrate. See the rebuttals from the 2 sources below:
"The Sudbury info is seriously outdated, and the comment about moon buggies (like, when did Nasa test moon buggies ? early 1970?s) ought to have given the author a clue. Sudbury was polluted by a century of mining (1870 on). In fact, some of Sudbury?s nickel went into making the Statue of Liberty. Currently, the mine is owned by INCO (not Toyota), and produces 100,000 tons of nickel a year, of which Toyota buys 1% (1000 tons). Nickel, by the way, is primarily used to make stainless steel."

"...... article about the Inco nickel factory at Sudbury, Canada, wrongly implied that poisonous fumes from the factory had left the area looking like a lunar landscape because so many plants and trees had died. You also sought to blame Toyota because the nickel is used, among countless other purposes, for making the Prius hybrid car batteries.
In fact any damage occurred more than thirty years ago, long before the Prius was made. Since then, Inco has reduced sulphur dioxide emissions by more than 90 per cent and has helped to plant more than 11 million trees.
The company has won praise from the Ontario Ministry of Environment and environmental groups. Sudbury has won several conservation awards and is a centre for eco-tourism."

Matthew Christ needs to choose his sources better. The main anti-Prius argument is from an article in to the March 7, 2007 issue of the Central Connecticut State "Recorder" a college paper, which is itself being questioned as nothing more than a thin rewrite of the marketing group's press release!

After hearing the Sean Hannities of the world speak, I disagree that this student created this article out of his own thoughts.

Without getting into the humans as original thinkers argument, he did cite concrete data showing that the Prius isn't as environmentally friendly as commonly believed. You've yet to produce evidence to the contrary, other than the fact that some of your friends drive one because they want to help save the environment. Anecdotal evidence about friends' opinions doesn't really constitute original thinking either.