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15,441Beach Fanatic
You just keep repeating the same point that I rendered meaningless without even trying to convince me that I'm wrong.Please help a lowly tradesmen out. How did you render the point that no one has been charged with insurrection meaningless? My goal is not to convince you that you are wrong, I am interacting with people I don't know in an attempt to gain knowledge and insight. If my stance is wrong or flawed I adjust it accordingly. Its your anger that I could do without
Beach FanaticAuthor
Please help a lowly tradesmen out. How did you render the point that no one has been charged with insurrection meaningless? My goal is not to convince you that you are wrong, I am interacting with people I don't know in an attempt to gain knowledge and insight. If my stance is wrong or flawed I adjust it accordingly. Its your anger that I could do withoutI'll type slowly. It's meaningless to use solely what people have been charged with as a basis for the crimes they have actually committed. People frequently get charged with crimes lesser than the actual in order to expedite prosecution and ensure conviction.
Beach Fanatic
Monotodium glutamate.I put that on boogers before I eat them
Beach Fanatic
I'll type slowly. It's meaningless to use solely what people have been charged with as a basis for the crimes they have actually committed. People frequently get charged with crimes lesser than the actual in order to expedite prosecution and ensure conviction.Thats a clunky sentence you typed up there. what would you use additionally as a basis for “the crimes they have actually committed” beyond charging them with those crimes? With all the clamor going on about traitorous behavior then convicting someone of jay walking means they were still traitorous but the easy route was taken? sounds reasonable. I see why your sentence was clunky, mine is too, lots of mental gymnastics needed. Its political theater. As always
Beach Fanatic
I'll type slowly. It's meaningless to use solely what people have been charged with as a basis for the crimes they have actually committed. People frequently get charged with crimes lesser than the actual in order to expedite prosecution and ensure conviction.Thanks for typing slowly, please know the difference between sarcasm and being a JO, now back to business
“Plea bargaining is a defining, if not the defining, feature of the federal criminal justice system” (Brown and Bunnell, 2006:1063). In plea bargaining, a defendant is faced with a charge at arraignment. Typically this is the maximum charge or punishment that the defendant will be held to if he or she goes to trial. The prosecutors will present the defendant with an opportunity to plead guilty to a lesser charge or to the original charge with less than the maximum sentence. In theory, the charge presented limits the penalties faced if the defendant decides to go to trial. While being found innocent or being acquitted is, of course, the best way for defendants to avoid jail time and other penalties, going to trial is perceived as risky, because it is impossible to predict what a jury will decide. As a result, many defendants enter pleas (Bar-Gill and Ben-Shahar, 2009).
Standard operating procedure is to charge the person with the max and plead them down. As you can see by the links earlier in this thread (what the people were charged with and what they pleaded to) that you may not understand the justice system as well as you think you do.
Beach Fanatic
Lou has a problem. He can't differentiate between what people have been charged with, and what their actual crimes might have been had they been pursued to the letter of the law. I blame the education system. Being a carpenter as he says he is, is no excuse for profound ignorance.
Why should being a carpenter be or not be an excuse for profound ignorance? What is it that you do or have done that’s so great? What a ridiculous and pompous statement. Being a douche is no excuse for profound douchiness. Or I guess it is
Beach FanaticAuthor
Thats a clunky sentence you typed up there. what would you use additionally as a basis for “the crimes they have actually committed” beyond charging them with those crimes? With all the clamor going on about traitorous behavior then convicting someone of jay walking means they were still traitorous but the easy route was taken? sounds reasonable. I see why your sentence was clunky, mine is too, lots of mental gymnastics needed. Its political theater. As alwaysIn your humorous example it's an impossible case to make. In the Jan 6 insurrection, it's an extremely difficult one, at least historically. It's so difficult, that even attempting it may not be worth the trouble. Fortunately for our country's sake, there is very little legal precedent. These things don't happen very often. Still, legal scholars leave it on the table.
Are Jan. 6 rioters traitors? So far, criminal charges say no
Some legal scholars say that sedition charges could be justified but that prosecutors may be reluctant to bring them because of their legal complexity and the difficulty historically in securing convictions. Overzealousness in applying them going back centuries has also discredited their use
Accusations against Jan. 6 rioter Thomas Caldwell certainly seem to fit the charge of sedition as it’s generally understood — inciting revolt against the government.
The Justice Department is continuing its work to prosecute a record number of cases. But they have so far opted for comparatively run-of-the-mill charges, like entering a restricted area and obstructing an official proceeding. Caldwell faces those charges, as well as conspiracy, which, like sedition, carries a maximum 20-year prison term.
At least one man is charged with conspiracy. It should be clear that the nature of the crimes committed at the insurrection are a far cry from statue toppling. It was an attempt to interfere with our most important governmental function. To use the word "insurrection" is not hyperbole, simply because prosecutors were reluctant to bring charges of sedition or treason.
Beach Fanatic
Why should being a carpenter be or not be an excuse for profound ignorance? What is it that you do or have done that’s so great? What a ridiculous and pompous statement.When dealing with some people you have to just let the water roll off your back and just realize they can't help themselves.
Beach FanaticAuthor
Why should being a carpenter be or not be an excuse for profound ignorance? What is it that you do or have done that’s so great? What a ridiculous and pompous statement. Being a douche is no excuse for profound douchiness. Or I guess it isHe's the one who brought his profession into this.
Beach Fanatic
In your humorous example it's an impossible case to make. In the Jan 6 insurrection, it's an extremely difficult one, at least historically. It's so difficult, that even attempting it may not be worth the trouble. Fortunately for our country's sake, there is very little legal precedent. These things don't happen very often. Still, legal scholars leave it on the table.Its hard to take allegations of insurrection and sedition serious when NO ONE has been charged with them but that won't stop some people with a narrative to push. At it's worst you could say Jan 6th was a conspiracy since 1 person (out of the thousands in attendance) was alleged to have committed that crime (might be best to wait and see if they are convicted). Right now it looks like most of Jan 6th incident was a demonstration that included some parading and picketing (judging by the guilty pleas). Breath before you comment please
Are Jan. 6 rioters traitors? So far, criminal charges say no
At least one man is charged with conspiracy. It should be clear that the nature of the crimes committed at the insurrection are a far cry from statue toppling. It was an attempt to interfere with our most important governmental function. To use the word "insurrection" is not hyperbole, simply because prosecutors were reluctant to bring charges of sedition or treason.
Beach Fanatic
He's the one who brought his profession into this.Its a tactic to get you to feel mentally superior. Seems like it worked. You're the one that showed your true colors
Beach FanaticAuthor
Its a tactic to get you to feel mentally superior. Seems like it worked. You're the one that showed your true colors
Nope that wasn't it at all. There is one other poster on SoWal who is a helluva carpenter who is incredibly knowledgeable about a variety of topics. Your profession would not factor in to my view of your opinions.
Beach FanaticAuthor
Its hard to take allegations of insurrection and sedition serious when NO ONE has been charged with them but that won't stop some people with a narrative to push. At it's worst you could say Jan 6th was a conspiracy since 1 person (out of the thousands in attendance) was alleged to have committed that crime (might be best to wait and see if they are convicted). Right now it looks like most of Jan 6th incident was a demonstration that included some parading and picketing (judging by the guilty pleas). Breath before you comment pleaseNo, it's hard for people who supported the insurrection to take the allegations seriously. Only by virtue of the fact that it failed, does their defense have but the thinnest of ice to stand on. Had the chambers been broken into, and just one member of congress had been killed, hurt, abducted, or threatened, that ice would shatter. If you want to get technical, maybe it's a failed attempted insurrection. It's much simpler to just call it an insurrection. Two-hundred years from now, Jan 6 will still be known as insurrection day.
Beach Fanatic
Nope that wasn't it at all. There is one other poster on SoWal who is a helluva carpenter who is incredibly knowledgeable about a variety of topics. Your profession would not factor in to my view of your opinions.Now you know 2 of us, enjoy
Beach Fanatic
No, it's hard for people who supported the insurrection to take the allegations seriously. Only by virtue of the fact that it failed, does their defense have but the thinnest of ice to stand on. Had the chambers been broken into, and just one member of congress had been killed, hurt, abducted, or threatened, that ice would shatter. If you want to get technical, maybe it's a failed attempted insurrection. It's much simpler to just call it an insurrection. Two-hundred years from now, Jan 6 will still be known as insurrection day.I'm gonna regret popping the cork on this one but here goes, as someone that is on the right your side is so far off on what Jan 6th actually was it is comical and sad but it is one of those things that if someone has to explain it to you then they can't explain it to you. Now I am not saying there wasn't an element there that did not have bad intentions but there are extremist on both sides of the isle. If the majority of people in the capital on Jan 6th had bad intentions then we wouldn't have a capital today, it really is just that simple. Before you comment, I have clearly stated I am against violence and destruction, as I believe was the case for the majority of the people there. One of our greatest problems as a country right now is we have lost the ability to communicate with people with an opposing point of view, that is why trying to explain why our fellow citizens were so upset on Jan 6th is useless. Seems odd to me that only one person died on Jan 6th as a result of going into the capital since the protest was so violent, as the media has portrayed.
Beach FanaticAuthor
I'm gonna regret popping the cork on this one but here goes, as someone that is on the right your side is so far off on what Jan 6th actually was it is comical and sad but it is one of those things that if someone has to explain it to you then they can't explain it to you. Now I am not saying there wasn't an element there that did not have bad intentions but there are extremist on both sides of the isle. If the majority of people in the capital on Jan 6th had bad intentions then we wouldn't have a capital today, it really is just that simple. Before you comment, I have clearly stated I am against violence and destruction, as I believe was the case for the majority of the people there. One of our greatest problems as a country right now is we have lost the ability to communicate with people with an opposing point of view, that is why trying to explain why our fellow citizens were so upset on Jan 6th is useless. Seems odd to me that only one person died on Jan 6th as a result of going into the capital since the protest was so violent, as the media has portrayed.Your view [misrepresentation] on what actually happened is thoroughly unAmerican. Everything else you say is just lip service.
Edited
Beach Fanatic
Your view [misrepresentation] on what actually happened is thoroughly unAmerican. Everything else you say is just lip service.Just so I can follow your insightful and very deep thought process, as a person that is actually on the right, that knows and thinks like those on the right, you think my view is one: a misrepresentation and two: is unAmerican. You are no longer worth my time due to the inability to have an intelligent conversation. God Bless
Beach FanaticAuthor
Just so I can follow your insightful and very deep thought process, as a person that is actually on the right, that knows and thinks like those on the right, you think my view is one: a misrepresentation and two: is unAmerican. You are no longer worth my time due to the inability to have an intelligent conversation. God Bless
Beach FanaticAuthor
Yes.
Beach FanaticAuthor
SoWal Insider
Poppa As I have already stated a couple of times, anyone that broke the law should be punished for that offense. The issue is these offenses should be in line with every other citizen that has committed the same crime. This is where the rub comes fromThey are being treated the same as others who forced their way through police barriers and broke into the Capitol with the intention of forcing Congress to suspend performing their official duties. Remember, they weren’t convicted, they pleaded guilty.I don’t understand the disconnect. Are there other federal government buildings where this took place you are referring to?
Beach FanaticAuthor
Beach Fanatic
Thought this was an interesting read.
en.m.wikipedia.org
Beer Hall Putsch - Wikipedia
Beach Fanatic
Thought this was an interesting read.I think this is exactly what is happening in our political system but not because of anything Hitler did or did not do. I think nature is all about survival and human nature did not fall far from the tree. We all want to live but for emotional elements we have not learned how to let live. We humans generally live in fear. If we are to evolve beyond what we are now we will have to do a better job of managing our fears. History does keep repeating itself so the prognosis is unknown...
Beer Hall Putsch - Wikipedia
SoWal Insider
Thought this was an interesting read.Reads like the blueprint republicans are following to secure minority power.
Beer Hall Putsch - Wikipedia
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