Welcome to America

No, raiding the house of a man who has stolen goverment materials labeled as high as TOP SECRET SCI is as far from politcal as it gets. It's what anyone would expect.

If this info was so sensitive that they had to raid his home why the delay between getting the subpoena and executing it?

Just for my own purposes, I have tried to condense the "espionage case" into a condensed version. This is what it looks like to me (so far) :

DOJ Case:

Trump had, in his possession, government documents (regardless of classified status), that he was not authorized to possess – Trump has admitted he had the documents multiple times

Trump was formally, legally, requested to return the documents – he refused, repeatedly – Documented

DOJ recovered these documents from Trump’s night club – Documented

He has been ordered by the special master to show cause why he had a reason to possess them- he has not complied

______



Trump’s defense:

(1) I declassified them – doesn’t provide any proof – but, it doesn’t matter, possession of the documents, regardless if they are classified or not, is a crime

(2) I didn’t know they were there – he has admitted ordering them taken: some of them found in his desk

(3) FBI planted them – he has been asked by the special master to provide proof – he has not complied

It is not a crime for an ex president to have ANY paperwork if he declassified it while in office and he had the ability to declassify ALL OF IT. There is nothing that he couldn't have declassified and nothing that he couldn't have taken with him if it was declassified.

What MAGAs never acknowledge is everytime trump has the chance to prove his claims in court he never does. He can lie all he wants in public, but under oath he can’t because his lies will have consequences.

You seem fine with lying

But, what frightens me more than the orange blimp, is the number of 'Americans' who are worse than he is. What will they do when he dies? Claim wrong doing? Ellen

Please expand on what you mean 'worse then he is'? In what way? Who? Would Trump be killed or die of natural causes?

So you don't think there was any other way to get the files other then a pre dawn televised raid

So you don't think there was any other way to get the files other then a pre dawn televised raid?

You are very ill-informed. The Search was conducted at 10:00am and was not televised. Some news agencies (ABC among them) have used old stock footage of police cars with flashing lights at night, and that was far, far different from the actual search. As far as anything televised inside the compound, Trump has said that all of his surveillance cameras were allowed to remain working and he has the footage. He doesn't seem to want to release those tapes.

If this info was so sensitive that they had to raid his home why the delay between getting the subpoena and executing it?

You can google the time line of events leading up to this. He was served several subpoenas over a fairly long period of time and refused to comply. Again, and this is important, regardless of whether these documents were de-classified, which they were not, it is still a crime for him to possess these documents, which are the property of the United States Government. He is no longer president* and he has been directly asked by the special master to show just cause for him to need to have possession of those document. He hasn't replied to that request. Can you come up with a reason why he should have possession of those documents which are the property of the United State?
DOJ Case:



Trump had government documents (regardless of classified status) that he was not authorized to possess – Trump had admitted he had the documents multiple times

Trump was formally, legally, requested to return documents – he refused, repeatedly – Documented

DOJ recovered these documents from Trump’s night club – Documented

He had been ordered to show cause why he had a reason to possess them- he has not complied

______



Trump’s defense:

(1) I declassified them – doesn’t provide any proof – but, it doesn’t matter, possession of the documents is a crime

(2) I didn’t know they were there – he has admitted ordering them taken: some of them found in his desk

(3) FBI planted them – he has been asked by the special master to provide proof – he has not complied

It is not a crime for an ex president to have ANY paperwork if he declassified it while in office and he had the ability to declassify ALL OF IT. There is nothing that he couldn't have declassified and nothing that he couldn't have taken with him if it was declassified.

To put it simply: you are wrong. It is a crime for him to possess document that belong to the United States. Whether they are classified or not. It is truly written in the statue. Whether they are classified or not. He is no longer president*.

You are very ill-informed. The Search was conducted at 10:00am and was not televised. Some news agencies (ABC among them) have used old stock footage of police cars with flashing lights at night, and that was far, far different from the actual search. As far as anything televised inside the compound, Trump has said that all of his surveillance cameras were allowed to remain working and he has the footage. He doesn't seem to want to release those tapes.

I thought it was done pre dawn. Just checked a couple of news articles it was done between 9am and 6:30 PM. the video I saw was at night not in the am.
I was wrong on the timeline

To put it simply: you are wrong. It is a crime for him to possess document that belong to the United States. Whether they are classified or not. It is truly written in the statue. Whether they are classified or not. He is no longer president*.

What statute are you referring to? I am trying to research this but I cannot get past all the Trump stuff. I know for a fact that a president can declassify ANYthing they want to . I know for a fact that a president can take home any unclassified paperwork.

The rub comes in the following questions:
Was the info declassified
Did they leave with him while he was president
Why did he keep them after he left office (especially if the NADA asked for them back)
I can see him not knowing what he had because I can't imagine he packed the boxes when he left office

The info I read said that someone or people from NADA went to Trumps house to get this paperwork. They are the ones that told him to put a lock on whatever door they were behind.

If Trump was trying to do something nefarious with this info why wouldn't he have just made copies or have already done something with them

Lets be clear, if Trump committed a crime he should be held to account but I do not know if he committed a crime.

They included some footage from the mother country

GOP Unveils 'Commitment To America' Plan With Stock Videos Of Russia, Ukraine​

No, this is a clown

What would you call this, a new dance

What statute are you referring to? I am trying to research this but I cannot get past all the Trump stuff. I know for a fact that a president can declassify ANYthing they want to . I know for a fact that a president can take home any unclassified paperwork.

The rub comes in the following questions:
Was the info declassified
Did they leave with him while he was president
Why did he keep them after he left office (especially if the NADA asked for them back)
I can see him not knowing what he had because I can't imagine he packed the boxes when he left office

The info I read said that someone or people from NADA went to Trumps house to get this paperwork. They are the ones that told him to put a lock on whatever door they were behind.

If Trump was trying to do something nefarious with this info why wouldn't he have just made copies or have already done something with them

Lets be clear, if Trump committed a crime he should be held to account but I do not know if he committed a crime.

First of all, when he took the documents, classified or not, he was no longer president*. Common folk cannot possess government documents( again, classified or no) without authorization. It amazes me that you try to contort your thinking to condone espionage. Please come up with your best answer that Trump has refused to answer: What just cause did he have to have possession of the documents? The court has directly ask him that question.

First of all, when he took the documents, classified or not, he was no longer president*. Common folk cannot possess government documents( again, classified or no) without authorization. It amazes me that you try to contort your thinking to condone espionage. Please come up with your best answer that Trump has refused to answer: What just cause did he have to have possession of the documents? The court has directly ask him that question.

What statute are you referring to? No one is contorting anything, I am in search of the facts, not emotion, not the court of public opinion, facts.

Let me get this straight, you want me to tell you why Trump didn't answer a question that some one asked him? If so you got me there because I don't know. I'll ask him if I see him this weekend. I literally asked this question earlier

What statute are you referring to? No one is contorting anything, I am in search of the facts, not emotion, not the court of public opinion, facts.

Let me get this straight, you want me to tell you why Trump didn't answer a question that some one asked him? If so you got me there because I don't know. I'll ask him if I see him this weekend. I literally asked this question earlier

The special master of this court asked him that question. Simple question. It was quoted on this thread verbatim. Do you really want to belittle the special master's most important question? This goes to the heart of your defense of Trump. He is simply telling Trump to present his defense, and Trump doesn't seem able to comply. The secret is: He has thrown out about three or four totally implausible excuses (like you have) and they all contradict each other.

I'm not dodging the question "what statue". I have read about it in several places, but I don't know where to find it. (I was able to determine the time the search happen, 10am, with a simple google.) Every story I have read basically says the same thing: regardless of whether the documents are classified or not, they are the property of the government. It is only logical that the intelligence community has control over what documents are classified, and what documents, whether classified or not, are free to the public to scrutinize. Your whole premise ( I use that term quite mockingly) seems to be an attack on the entire intelligence community's ability to keep control of it's secret information. Is "voodoo de-classification" going to become the new Hunter's Laptop? Stop trying to defend a person who is obviously a danger to national security.

I'm not dodging the question "what statue". I have read about it in several places, but I don't know where to find it. (I was able to determine the time the search happen, 10am, with a simple google.) Every story I have read basically says the same thing: regardless of whether the documents are classified or not, they are the property of the government. It is only logical that the intelligence community has control over what documents are classified, and what documents, whether classified or not, are free to the public to scrutinize. Your whole premise ( Iuse that term quite mockingly) seems to be an attack on the entire intelligence community's ability to keep control of it's secret information. Is "voodoo de-classification" going to become the new Hunter's Laptop? Stop trying to defend a person who is obviously a danger to national security.

Beyond the obvious dangers of the ferret headed Pussygrabber, if he is put back in the WH he will just most likely start declassifying everything in sight.

Beyond the obvious dangers of the ferret headed Pussygrabber, if he is put back in the WH he will just most likely start declassifying everything in sight.

I truly don't understand people that want to condone and support espionage and treason. I can somewhat understand that they are disappointed that their idol is found out to be a fraud, but, when the evidence is this obvious, just STFU and sulk somewhere else rather than show yourself to be an enemy of national security.

A Reminder

So you don't think there was any other way to get the files other then a pre dawn televised raid?

No, I still don't think they've gotten everything.

It is not a crime for an ex president to have ANY paperwork if he declassified it while in office and he had the ability to declassify ALL OF IT. There is nothing that he couldn't have declassified and nothing that he couldn't have taken with him if it was declassified.

WRONG. The classification is irrelevant in the theft of government documents. The incoming administration has an interest in seeing that sensitive information, classified or not, doesn't get into the wrong hands.

I truly don't understand people that want to condone and support espionage and treason. I can somewhat understand that they are disappointed that their idol is found out to be a fraud, but, when the evidence is this obvious, just STFU and sulk somewhere else rather than show yourself to be an enemy of national security.

Agreed, I can't imagine anyone wanting to die on that hill.

And yet he had no trouble beating trump

And yet he had no trouble beating trump

From his basement, without boat parades.

I'm not dodging the question "what statue". I have read about it in several places, but I don't know where to find it. (I was able to determine the time the search happen, 10am, with a simple google.) Every story I have read basically says the same thing: regardless of whether the documents are classified or not, they are the property of the government. It is only logical that the intelligence community has control over what documents are classified, and what documents, whether classified or not, are free to the public to scrutinize. Your whole premise ( I use that term quite mockingly) seems to be an attack on the entire intelligence community's ability to keep control of it's secret information. Is "voodoo de-classification" going to become the new Hunter's Laptop? Stop trying to defend a person who is obviously a danger to national security.

The statute and most importantly what the statute says is all that matters. I have clearly stated if Trump or anyone for that matter breaks the law they should be punished accordingly. The leftist people I have to deal with all argue in the same manner. If you ask them for backup to their claim (in this matter the legal statute) they start hammering you with mob rule mentality. So if I want to read the law so I can get to the facts of the case I am somehow running counter to all of the intelligence agencies in the country. Your side needs to work on this tactic, the goal should be to read the law and agree on what the law is not waterboard people with mob mentality

The special master of this court asked him that question. Simple question. It was quoted on this thread verbatim. Do you really want to belittle the special master's most important question? This goes to the heart of your defense of Trump. He is simply telling Trump to present his defense, and Trump doesn't seem able to comply. The secret is: He has thrown out about three or four totally implausible excuses (like you have) and they all contradict each other.

Do you see how you try to act if you get an answer you don't like or agree with? You asked me why Trump didn't answer a question knowing there is no possible way I woulpd be able to answer, then when I am a little silly with my answer you somehow relate this to 'belittling the SP question'. This is an odd way to go about finding the truth. Just my opinion