Welcome to America

Bob
Of coarse someone will do it but the rates they charge will be in line with the risk they feel is making the juice worth the squeeze for them and their investors

The more storms we have the tougher and more expensive its gonna get

Something will have to give. Most homes have mortgages. Lenders require insurance. Lenders want to be paid first and foremost. Homeowners have to pay electric, water, mortgage, insurance - in what order do they pay if limited on funds?

I come from the northeast

You ain't from around here are ya boy?

Let the online boys keep the alpha/beta male claims they crave and need, which originated from hierarchy of animals in the wild. It is somewhat psychologically interesting. Especially when these same "alpha" mentalities embrace their cult leaders as their alpha heros (not knowing they are then relegated to betas). I equate these same so-called alpha males as keyboard warrior conspiracist mansplainers living in mom's basement. Their idols (trump, Tucker and ilk) are the most bizarre versions of alpha males ever.

Claiming alpha status is not unlike saying "I have a very big brain... I'm a stable genius, I have big hands...

Person, woman, man, camera, TV."

Interesting piece...

".. Supposed human alpha male behaviour also often doesn’t match alpha male behaviour in other species. Many non-human alpha males also have a corresponding alpha female who exerts similar levels of dominance and control, whereas human alpha males invariably have a “less respectful” attitude towards women, shall we say. Also, the fact that many communities of men (particularly online) are seemingly convinced that they can all be alpha males is a contradiction in terms; there should only be one alpha male per community, that’s sort of the whole point. The rest should try and depose him as and when the opportunity presents itself, but until then they are, at best, “beta males”, a term often used as an insult by members of said community with no sense of irony.

It’s as if the idea of being an alpha male is very reassuring to those who lack confidence and are scared by the wider world and people in it, so want to turn the tables.

This may be key. Supposed alpha males may always get their way not because of to some evolved tendency in humans to respect and obey men who display a specific set of characteristics, as if people were video games that respond to certain cheat codes, but simply because they’re scary. If a large, shouty man starts bellowing in your face, that’s very unsettling, so people may do what he says to stop him from becoming violent, or just to make him go away. Said man would obviously perceive this as evidence for his own superiority... "

The Guardian

Redirect Notice

This is a lot of words to say so little but lets break it down

Its funny to see you twist the term alpha the way you do

I cannot speak for anyone but me but when I speak about 'alpha' males I am not speaking about a 'leader of the pack' person like you have pigeon holed your response

Lets change my term 'alpha' to 'real men'
By real men I do not mean male, I mean people that do the right thing, live right, stand up for whats right, protect the innocent or weak, etc.
These are the kind of people you call when there is a problem or when something needs to be done or handled
To say 'alphas' have a less respectful attitude towards women says more about the writer then the person being wrote about
Real men have mothers, sisters, daugters, grandmothers, wives, and women they care about (some of them are women) and people who care about these women would never let anyone disrespect them. Period
Anyone that treats a woman (or anyone for that matter) as less then is not a alpha at all

I would go on but no one is going to change you view so I wish you the best

You think using illegals to do work has anything to do with which political party you back here in Florida?
Who hires illegals and then complains about the government?

You say we should train college graduates, have you met a college graduate that wants to do construction locally?
Good luck trying to find an American that actually wants to do physical work, I'm not saying there aren't any but they are very very rare

I come from the northeast where tradesmen are valued, skills are passed down, and there are trade schools. That is a very rare thing to experience here

When you say pay them a living wage how much is a living wage? Lets get specific

I've been paying employee and employer taxes for 25+ years

Then you go into gibberish mode as usual in your post

You say I'm hurting people. Who and how?

You ask how many people I infected with Covid. How could I or anyone possible know this number? Do you think you being vaccinated stopped you from infecting anyone?

More gibberish emotional opinion words

I know calling people names is childish,

thats the point

You think using illegals to do work has anything to do with which political party you back here in Florida?
Who hires illegals and then complains about the government?

You say we should train college graduates, have you met a college graduate that wants to do construction locally?
Good luck trying to find an American that actually wants to do physical work, I'm not saying there aren't any but they are very very rare

I come from the northeast where tradesmen are valued, skills are passed down, and there are trade schools. That is a very rare thing to experience here

When you say pay them a living wage how much is a living wage? Lets get specific

I've been paying employee and employer taxes for 25+ years

Then you go into gibberish mode as usual in your post

You say I'm hurting people. Who and how?

You ask how many people I infected with Covid. How could I or anyone possible know this number? Do you think you being vaccinated stopped you from infecting anyone?

More gibberish emotional opinion words

I know calling people names is childish, thats the point

NOT SURE WHAT HAPPENED UP THERE^^^ Sorry

Question and am not looking for a fight. For you, if you were to use undocumented immigrants, it it cheaper to hire them and are they more available than documented or American labor. Those skilled workers in the Northeast, were they Unionized? I know some guys in the Trades who worked their way up through laborer to journeyman because of the schools that the Unions started. I also remember the Tech Schools where half the day you went to school and other half you attended vo-tech. What does your starting pay look like?

How is it fair to all those who didn’t get paid to stay home?
Use your student loan logic.

I'm not following your comment
If the government forced people to stay home and then gave the employers money to pay those people that closes the loop
You want to know if its fair for the people that stayed home and didn't get paid
Were they employees?

Personally as an employer we were not allowed (or supposed to be allowed) to submit for PPP money

For example in my company
We have an office staff of 3 plus me
We submitted to be reimbursed for paying a percentage (I cannot remmeber the percentage) of the 3 employees missed time at work, I was not allowed to submit for my time (but I didn't really miss work so I shouldn't of either way)
Our field guys were never missed any time

Not sure how my student loan logic ties in

Ask or comment if you care for a response

"Fairness outrage" seems to be the latest conservative trend. Basically, they get outraged when something happens to one of their idols, but they feel it's not fair because one of their enemies did something vaguely similar, but wasn't punished with death. Therefore their hero is exempt or is in a witch hunt.

I'm sure you were trying to make a point here

You ain't from around here are ya boy?

How were you able to figure this out on your own (after I clearly stated where I was from)?
Sounds like you are from around here ole fella

I struggle with CFO Patronis statement.

NOT SURE WHAT HAPPENED UP THERE^^^ Sorry

Question and am not looking for a fight. For you, if you were to use undocumented immigrants, it it cheaper to hire them and are they more available than documented or American labor. Those skilled workers in the Northeast, were they Unionized? I know some guys in the Trades who worked their way up through laborer to journeyman because of the schools that the Unions started. I also remember the Tech Schools where half the day you went to school and other half you attended vo-tech. What does your starting pay look like?

Bob
I know you are a good person, your comments will never be taken in the wrong light and I appreciate your time
I can only speak to my personal experience
I moved to this area about 10 years ago
Where I came from our labor was very skilled and tradesmen took pride in their respective craft
Knowledge was passed from old to young so skills were being passed down
The way the system works around here is nothing like the system up north

For example
In NJ we (my wife and I) had a construction company and a millwork shop
Lets focus on the millwork shop
Where I was located there was a trade school 20 minutes north of us and another 20 minutes south (we were right on the coast)
The kids would go to school for 2 hours in the AM and then get bussed to our shop
Our program (which had to be approved by the school) was to put 1 student with 1 carpenter
This student helped that carpenter for 2 semesters (about 5 months)
Every week we would give that student another tool. First week a tool box, next week a hammer, etc
It was great for everyone involved. The carpenters in our shop were older gentlemen that didn't work in the field much anymore, they were able to teach a kid that wanted to learn and the kid got to learn at a slower pace with real world hands on experience.
It was cool to see the bond between each set of guys.
If the student had an attitude or was lazy we didn't accept him anymore
It was great for me because I paid 1/3 of his salary, the school paid 1/3, and the state paid 1/3
If the kid was a good worker and he liked us he would stay for 2-3 years and then when he was done school we would hire him full time
This area would benefit greatly from this scenario

Now lets look at this area
There are very few American tradesmen locally
Take a kid getting out of high school
He can come to work for a contractor and work out in the sun all day and take home about $1k a week or he can set up beach chairs or be a waiter or some other tourist job for a little bit better money and not have to work as hard and maybe stay in the AC most of the day
That being said the kid usually chooses the easier path
Now fast forward 10-15 years and that same kid is making about the same money and has not developed skills that are worth more to the free market
That person is now stuck where they started

Now in direct response to your comment
When I first moved here the illegals made a little less then a comparable American for the same work
Now I would say they make the same if not more
It is way easier to find illegals willing to work as opposed to Americans
Up north a lot of guys are unionized but the unions aren't all they are cracked up to be
Guys left due to a lack of work, expensive dues, not much room for advancement.
We would get union guys sometimes but I tended to stay away from them because they were usually a headache and they were very set in their ways

Pay in our company varies based on our perceived value
We are set up a little different then most local builders due to our background
Up north we only build 2 homes a year but they were big homes (7500 sqft and up) and we did the majority of the work in house
Here most of the builder are construction managers (meaning they don't put on the tools and do field work)
It was hard for me to try to transition to the way most builders work here
We have 2 supervisors that oversee and work on their projects
We have 3 carpenters, 2 skilled helpers, and 4 laborers
Our 2 working supers make over $100 per year and are great (I brought them down from up north)
Our carpenter make around $36/hr
Our skilled helper make around $29/hr
Our laborers make around $25/hr (a little less if they don't know english yet)

We try to treat our good guys like family and they appreciate it

As an outsider that loves the area I would love to see the following as far as construction goes
-trades schools for kids that want to go into our line of work
-english lesson for the illegals that want to learn
-access to work visas so the illegals aren't so scared all the time

Something will have to give. Most homes have mortgages. Lenders require insurance. Lenders want to be paid first and foremost. Homeowners have to pay electric, water, mortgage, insurance - in what order do they pay if limited on funds?

I'm afraid it will get worse before it gets better
As far as what order to pay in I'm not sure

But isn't that with any business whether they have investors or not. They will push that market for the profit. I am just curious what the Insurance Industry didn't get that made them decide to exit?

Bob
We have an investor who builds spec homes locally that is part of an insurance company
From talking to him their company and their investors have decided its not worth the risk to provide insurance in a couple of states Florida being one of them

I think insurance is a great business until you have to pay out

View attachment 101104

If you ain't right then you're wrong

Bob
Of coarse someone will do it but the rates they charge will be in line with the risk they feel is making the juice worth the squeeze for them and their investors

The more storms we have the tougher and more expensive its gonna get

Maybe you should look into the salaries versus work product from time to time of insurance companies. Then look at their operating expense (not property liability). Then look at the assets. I think you will find a healthy dose of reality. Yes global warming is causing storm intensity and sea level rise but unchecked greed is also a big problem in that business.

Bob
We have an investor who builds spec homes locally that is part of an insurance company
From talking to him their company and their investors have decided its not worth the risk to provide insurance in a couple of states Florida being one of them

I think insurance is a great business until you have to pay out

These guys are very good at blaming everyone and everything on litigation. Litigation is a check on the ridiculousness of the way they form contracts with property owners. If you don't believe me go read your insurance contract.

Maybe you should look into the salaries versus work product from time to time of insurance companies. Then look at their operating expense (not property liability). Then look at the assets. I think you will find a healthy dose of reality. Yes global warming is causing storm intensity and sea level rise but unchecked greed is also a big problem in that business.

Then why not open your own insurance company?
You wouldn't even need to take a salary if you didn't want to to keep rates as low as possible
Its very very simple, people will open business's if they can make money
If companies are leaving its because it is not worth it

You think using illegals to do work has anything to do with which political party you back here in Florida?
Who hires illegals and then complains about the government?

You say we should train college graduates, have you met a college graduate that wants to do construction locally?
Good luck trying to find an American that actually wants to do physical work, I'm not saying there aren't any but they are very very rare

I come from the northeast where tradesmen are valued, skills are passed down, and there are trade schools. That is a very rare thing to experience here

When you say pay them a living wage how much is a living wage? Lets get specific

I've been paying employee and employer taxes for 25+ years

Then you go into gibberish mode as usual in your post

You say I'm hurting people. Who and how?

You ask how many people I infected with Covid. How could I or anyone possible know this number? Do you think you being vaccinated stopped you from infecting anyone?

More gibberish emotional opinion words

I know calling people names is childish, thats the point

It is interesting that you would not know what a living wage is. Living wage = (Cost of living expense including taxes) + (15%) is an oversimplified formula. So if you were honest you would admit that illegal immigrants have less cost of living and pay less taxes which lowers the income they are willing to work for. Further if you were honest you would admit that you prefer not to train a college graduate (trust me they are willing to work for a living wage) because they cost more and have an education such that they know if they are being taken advantage of. Just be honest about it is all.

I don't "back" either political party. I back accountability.

Yes you hurt people. You refuse to take accountability for it which is worse. You would rather justify some political spin rather than take responsibility for your words (your words is all I have to go on). Spreading false information hurts people, spreading covid around by not taking any precautions whatsoever hurts people and purposely, grouping people into categories that you can hate hurts people. If you can read you would know that the vaccine helps lower the risks for serious health consequences and lowers the risk of spreading it to another human but you would rather justify a political position. In my book you hurt people purposely.

Bob
I know you are a good person, your comments will never be taken in the wrong light and I appreciate your time
I can only speak to my personal experience
I moved to this area about 10 years ago
Where I came from our labor was very skilled and tradesmen took pride in their respective craft
Knowledge was passed from old to young so skills were being passed down
The way the system works around here is nothing like the system up north

For example
In NJ we (my wife and I) had a construction company and a millwork shop
Lets focus on the millwork shop
Where I was located there was a trade school 20 minutes north of us and another 20 minutes south (we were right on the coast)
The kids would go to school for 2 hours in the AM and then get bussed to our shop
Our program (which had to be approved by the school) was to put 1 student with 1 carpenter
This student helped that carpenter for 2 semesters (about 5 months)
Every week we would give that student another tool. First week a tool box, next week a hammer, etc
It was great for everyone involved. The carpenters in our shop were older gentlemen that didn't work in the field much anymore, they were able to teach a kid that wanted to learn and the kid got to learn at a slower pace with real world hands on experience.
It was cool to see the bond between each set of guys.
If the student had an attitude or was lazy we didn't accept him anymore
It was great for me because I paid 1/3 of his salary, the school paid 1/3, and the state paid 1/3
If the kid was a good worker and he liked us he would stay for 2-3 years and then when he was done school we would hire him full time
This area would benefit greatly from this scenario

Now lets look at this area
There are very few American tradesmen locally
Take a kid getting out of high school
He can come to work for a contractor and work out in the sun all day and take home about $1k a week or he can set up beach chairs or be a waiter or some other tourist job for a little bit better money and not have to work as hard and maybe stay in the AC most of the day
That being said the kid usually chooses the easier path
Now fast forward 10-15 years and that same kid is making about the same money and has not developed skills that are worth more to the free market
That person is now stuck where they started

Now in direct response to your comment
When I first moved here the illegals made a little less then a comparable American for the same work
Now I would say they make the same if not more
It is way easier to find illegals willing to work as opposed to Americans
Up north a lot of guys are unionized but the unions aren't all they are cracked up to be
Guys left due to a lack of work, expensive dues, not much room for advancement.
We would get union guys sometimes but I tended to stay away from them because they were usually a headache and they were very set in their ways

Pay in our company varies based on our perceived value
We are set up a little different then most local builders due to our background
Up north we only build 2 homes a year but they were big homes (7500 sqft and up) and we did the majority of the work in house
Here most of the builder are construction managers (meaning they don't put on the tools and do field work)
It was hard for me to try to transition to the way most builders work here
We have 2 supervisors that oversee and work on their projects
We have 3 carpenters, 2 skilled helpers, and 4 laborers
Our 2 working supers make over $100 per year and are great (I brought them down from up north)
Our carpenter make around $36/hr
Our skilled helper make around $29/hr
Our laborers make around $25/hr (a little less if they don't know english yet)

We try to treat our good guys like family and they appreciate it

As an outsider that loves the area I would love to see the following as far as construction goes
-trades schools for kids that want to go into our line of work
-english lesson for the illegals that want to learn
-access to work visas so the illegals aren't so scared all the time

There is/ was a school on Lewis Turner Blvd in Fort Walton that had building trades, plumbing, carpentry, I think HVAC. They used to build homes at the school and you could bid on them to cover cost and have them moved. Knew a guy who bought and had them moved to his property.

Then why not open your own insurance company?
You wouldn't even need to take a salary if you didn't want to to keep rates as low as possible
Its very very simple, people will open business's if they can make money
If companies are leaving its because it is not worth it

Because they have a monopoly on assets. Do the research.

There is/ was a school on Lewis Turner Blvd in Fort Walton that had building trades, plumbing, carpentry, I think HVAC. They used to build homes at the school and you could bid on them to cover cost and have them moved. Knew a guy who bought and had them moved to his property.

It's still there, we have a trade school in Defuniak as well, most people just don't realize it. Unfortunately the trade schools are focused on churning out project managers instead of carpenters and contractors like they used to.

I struggle with CFO Patronis statement.

As Farmers Insurance pulls out, Florida CFO slams company as ‘woke,’ Dems unload on GOP

The fallout continues after another major insurance company chose to pull out of Florida’s ailing property insurance market.

www.local10.com

Once again old Jimmy drops the ball and looses focus, perhaps why the family doesn't want him in the restaurant.

Once again old Jimmy drops the ball and looses focus, perhaps why the family doesn't want him in the restaurant.

Just another republican not being accountable to the people and using "woke" to justify it...

It's still there, we have a trade school in Defuniak as well, most people just don't realize it. Unfortunately the trade schools are focused on churning out project managers instead of carpenters and contractors like they used to.

I knew there was one up there. The only thing I ever see any ads for are Cosmetologist, LPN, CNA's. The one in Bay seems to focus on aircraft and HVAC.

I'm afraid it will get worse before it gets better
As far as what order to pay in I'm not sure

Well from what I've seen on the tube they are paid in that order with insurance down the line. But regardless, the fact that the insurance and mortgage industries are inextricably linked, and often owned by the same entities (?) means there are going to be some shady deals. But the real question is will their lobbyist continue to screw us or will the government be forced by the people to make them accountable.

Is the end result that people won't be able to afford or obtain insurance, so when they have a loss and can't pay the mortgage company (banks/insurance/corporations) ends up with the property? Is it all a giant scam, aided by politicians?

This is a lot of words to say so little but lets break it down

Its funny to see you twist the term alpha the way you do

I cannot speak for anyone but me but when I speak about 'alpha' males I am not speaking about a 'leader of the pack' person like you have pigeon holed your response

Lets change my term 'alpha' to 'real men'
By real men I do not mean male, I mean people that do the right thing, live right, stand up for whats right, protect the innocent or weak, etc.
These are the kind of people you call when there is a problem or when something needs to be done or handled
To say 'alphas' have a less respectful attitude towards women says more about the writer then the person being wrote about
Real men have mothers, sisters, daugters, grandmothers, wives, and women they care about (some of them are women) and people who care about these women would never let anyone disrespect them. Period
Anyone that treats a woman (or anyone for that matter) as less then is not a alpha at all

I would go on but no one is going to change you view so I wish you the best

I know many real men and women. Alpha isn't part of their vocabulary. Or their mindset.

Bob
I know you are a good person, your comments will never be taken in the wrong light and I appreciate your time
I can only speak to my personal experience
I moved to this area about 10 years ago
Where I came from our labor was very skilled and tradesmen took pride in their respective craft
Knowledge was passed from old to young so skills were being passed down
The way the system works around here is nothing like the system up north

For example
In NJ we (my wife and I) had a construction company and a millwork shop
Lets focus on the millwork shop
Where I was located there was a trade school 20 minutes north of us and another 20 minutes south (we were right on the coast)
The kids would go to school for 2 hours in the AM and then get bussed to our shop
Our program (which had to be approved by the school) was to put 1 student with 1 carpenter
This student helped that carpenter for 2 semesters (about 5 months)
Every week we would give that student another tool. First week a tool box, next week a hammer, etc
It was great for everyone involved. The carpenters in our shop were older gentlemen that didn't work in the field much anymore, they were able to teach a kid that wanted to learn and the kid got to learn at a slower pace with real world hands on experience.
It was cool to see the bond between each set of guys.
If the student had an attitude or was lazy we didn't accept him anymore
It was great for me because I paid 1/3 of his salary, the school paid 1/3, and the state paid 1/3
If the kid was a good worker and he liked us he would stay for 2-3 years and then when he was done school we would hire him full time
This area would benefit greatly from this scenario

Now lets look at this area
There are very few American tradesmen locally
Take a kid getting out of high school
He can come to work for a contractor and work out in the sun all day and take home about $1k a week or he can set up beach chairs or be a waiter or some other tourist job for a little bit better money and not have to work as hard and maybe stay in the AC most of the day
That being said the kid usually chooses the easier path
Now fast forward 10-15 years and that same kid is making about the same money and has not developed skills that are worth more to the free market
That person is now stuck where they started

Now in direct response to your comment
When I first moved here the illegals made a little less then a comparable American for the same work
Now I would say they make the same if not more
It is way easier to find illegals willing to work as opposed to Americans
Up north a lot of guys are unionized but the unions aren't all they are cracked up to be
Guys left due to a lack of work, expensive dues, not much room for advancement.
We would get union guys sometimes but I tended to stay away from them because they were usually a headache and they were very set in their ways

Pay in our company varies based on our perceived value
We are set up a little different then most local builders due to our background
Up north we only build 2 homes a year but they were big homes (7500 sqft and up) and we did the majority of the work in house
Here most of the builder are construction managers (meaning they don't put on the tools and do field work)
It was hard for me to try to transition to the way most builders work here
We have 2 supervisors that oversee and work on their projects
We have 3 carpenters, 2 skilled helpers, and 4 laborers
Our 2 working supers make over $100 per year and are great (I brought them down from up north)
Our carpenter make around $36/hr
Our skilled helper make around $29/hr
Our laborers make around $25/hr (a little less if they don't know english yet)

We try to treat our good guys like family and they appreciate it

As an outsider that loves the area I would love to see the following as far as construction goes
-trades schools for kids that want to go into our line of work
-english lesson for the illegals that want to learn
-access to work visas so the illegals aren't so scared all the time

Interesting post - the situation you left sounds like a good model for young people, like European system that gives them a real opportunity to make a life without the need for higher education in the academic setting like University.

I'm curious if you regret moving your business here and if you're life is better, business harder, income opportunity better ... would you tell your past self to hold up moving?