What's so great about government programs?

We paid off the loans early a couple years back, so all is financially well in that regard.

Competition (generally only in the private sector) should regulate the specific industries; not more government programs.

Competition (generally only in the private sector) should regulate the specific industries; not more government programs.

Sorry, but it's a little too soon after the mortgage loan/CDS debacle for me to agree with you on that one.

Industries have too long a history of not doing things which might be financially detrimental in the short run and beneficial to their neighbors/co-citizens in the long run, until they are required by law to do so.

Sorry, but it's a little too soon after the mortgage loan/CDS debacle for me to agree with you on that one.

Industries have too long a history of not doing things which might be financially detrimental in the short run and beneficial to their neighbors/co-citizens in the long run, until they are required by law to do so.

I agree; that's why I used the word "should." Hopefully, lessons have been learned by the mortgage debaucle.
But, if gov't programs take over the private sector, will we have the potential to have healthy competition? Or, will be forced into whatever the gov't says?

I agree; that's why I used the word "should." Hopefully, lessons have been learned by the mortgage debaucle.
But, if gov't programs take over the private sector, will we have the potential to have healthy competition? Or, will be forced into whatever the gov't says?

I agree, I am not sure I want the government trying to compete with the private sector....but they have to be involved, they have to regulate, they have to set some standards.

We paid off the loans early a couple years back, so all is financially well in that regard.

Did you have a prom note bonfire? That seems to be the preferred method.

Never did burn the student loan stuff since it involved five different loans between us (the mister's were from two different banks, the feds, and MSU itself) and they were paid off at different times because we did the snowball thing.

I figure we'll do the big bonfire in 2018 when the house mortgage is paid in full.

Back to the original question, what's so great about the private sector? I mean those folks gave us Enron, assorted banking cirsises, the dot com bubble crash.....

I just don't get the whole essentially religous fevor with which private=good; public=bad assumptions get made. End of the day, it's the quality of employees and leadership that make a program great or terrible, and not public or private.

Take utility copmpanies for example. I've dealt with eight different water/sewer, electric and gas companies in my life- three government-owned, three private companies, and two co-ops. One of the co-ops I'd rate the best in terms of performance and customer service, the other co-op was the worst in that regard. As for the rest, there was no difference to me between how the public and private utilities performed.

I don't get it either, Beachmouse. All too often it seems that those who feel all government is bad, let that belief cloud all rational thinking. Hard for me to grasp that mature adults who live in this country can actually believe this in such a rigid-minded way.

Back to the original question, what's so great about the private sector? I mean those folks gave us Enron, assorted banking cirsises, the dot com bubble crash.....

I just don't get the whole essentially religous fevor with which private=good; public=bad assumptions get made. End of the day, it's the quality of employees and leadership that make a program great or terrible, and not public or private.

Take utility copmpanies for example. I've dealt with eight different water/sewer, electric and gas companies in my life- three government-owned, three private companies, and two co-ops. One of the co-ops I'd rate the best in terms of performance and customer service, the other co-op was the worst in that regard. As for the rest, there was no difference to me between how the public and private utilities performed.

If the government owned and ran Apple Computer, would we have the iPod?

So far based on the comments, about the only thing people seem to think government is good at is loaning money, probably at a loss. I honestly can't think of a single government system I've interacted with throughout my life that wasn't run poorly and ineficiently.

Someone mentioned the USPS on here as an example. The last time I tried to ship something through USPS I experienced the worst customer service experience of my entire life. I ended up going to a UPS store down the street where everything went smoothly. (Imagine my surprise when the UPS guy came out of the store with a loading truck to help me with my packages.. I couldn't even get a parking spot in front of USPS, they were all filled with USPS trucks.) This is just one example of many.

Generally speaking though, centrally planned economies with heavy government involvement in industry... fail. Knowing that is the reason why I personally always have a knee jerk reaction ot government getting involved in something.

have you ever worked in or been involved with a government agency as a public servant i. e., political appointment or served as an elected official?

Do you have any idea how many items we use today were invented by the military? by NASA? by scientists working on a government project?

did you ever served in the military? been a fire fighter?

do you have any idea how much of the background research that goes into things like the IPod came from a government source?

would you like to live in a country where there is no government?

Can you do anything other than complain about government? You seem to be a bright person, but you are stuck on a broken record! IMO.

There is a place in this country for both government and the private sector... and perhaps if people such as yourself would contribute a bit to making things better instead of complaining about it all the time, the entire country might benefit from some of your knowledge.

have you ever worked in or been involved with a government agency as a public servant i. e., political appointment or served as an elected official?

No.

Do you have any idea how many items we use today were invented by the military? by NASA? by scientists working on a government project?

Yes actually, my background is in physics and am quite aware of how useful publically funded basic research can be. The internet for example was the result of work on the military's DARPA program. Microwaves came from WWII radar research, and MRI's have their roots in super collider research. This is all the result of basic or military research, and I'm all for it.

did you ever served in the military? been a fire fighter?

No.

would you like to live in a country where there is no government?

No. But I wouldn't mind living in a version of the United States with its philosophical ideals rooted in the late 19th century. Government today invades my life; It tries to tell me what I can do and what I can't do, mostly because it's trying to protect me from myself. I'm tired of it, the older I get, the more jaded I become. Government in this country has become intrusive, I'm sick of it. If you want to protect someone from themselves (despite the lack of Constitutional support for this goal) don't restrict my rights in the process. Don't punish me because I'm a responsible, hard working American who just wants to enjoy the fruits of his hard labor.

Can you do anything other than complain about government? You seem to be a bright person, but you are stuck on a broken record! IMO.

Can you do anything other than defend it?

There is a place in this country for both government and the private sector... and perhaps if people such as yourself would contribute a bit to making things better instead of complaining about it all the time, the entire country might benefit from some of your knowledge.

I don't complain about things I see as valuable contributions. Healthcare reform for example, we can do some good there. But it frustrates me when both sides seem to want an all or nothing resolution. If I'm complaining a lot lately it's probably because I'm honestly not that impressed with the current administration in Washington. Should I just shutup and keep my opinion to myself?

xyz

I think USPS lost the box I mailed to myself from Dallas. It's been two weeks.

xyz

No, I don't think you should shut up and keep your opinions to yourself. I would like to hear some positive opinions. There is more than one side to the issue.

I know many people who have spent many years, sometimes a lifetime, working in government jobs with not very much pay and little positive recognition from the general public, and yet they have worked hard to do their jobs because they believed in our country and believed that because they were working in their jobs everyday, someone's life was a bit better.

Maybe a child didn't go hungry because a social worker made one last stop even though she had worked more than her 8 hours already--but, there was that one last stop and she made it, and it made all the difference to that one child.

Or perhaps it was the fireman who heard the alarm on his way home, or his day off, and answered it anyway, because that is what he does...

or the young soldier or airman who stayed behind to help his fallen team mate, even though it meant he lost his life-

-or maybe it was the doctor in the ER of the inner city hospital, who despite the fact that he made half of what some of his former medical school classmates who went into private practice did, stayed with his job, because he felt he made a difference to the people with no insurance who had no place else to go for help.

Or maybe it was the foreign service officer in some Godforsaken country who made just one more effort with the local governor to squash an uprising that might have overrun the embassy and threatened the security of everyone there.

Maybe it was the public school teacher who after working in a classroom of 25 second graders, drove from DeFuniak Springs to South Walton to get trained on a special machine that would help one of her disabled students...no, the school can't afford to reimburse her, and her family has a late, cold dinner once again, but the child in her room needs her help to learn to read.

Maybe it's the single mom or dad who works at the post office and then at the local diner and goes to college in between to try make a better life for the children.

Maybe it was the caretaker in the national park who spent one more moment trimming trees, or mowing lawns, or checking on campfires...so that all the tourists could enjoy themselves.

Maybe it was the cop walking the beat who heard screams for help, and although he was alone, and there was no time for backup, he went to the person's aid anyway.

No, I don't want you to keep your opinions to yourself, I just want some recognition from you, and some others on this board that government is not some strange boogie man or woman somewhere in Washington...government is just people like you and me, many of them trying the best they know how to do the job they have chosen or that has chosen them. The examples I give above are not made up from some "dogooder, idealist" attitude some here have accused me of--no, they are people I know and love --some of them family; some of them now gone, but whose legacy lives on...they may have worked for government, but they made a difference.

They are not the enemy--they are good people who work hard and in my opinion do not deserve to be denigrated just because you feel your life is being intruded upon by some policy.

If you have a problem with it, then do something about it--contact your Congressman or woman; put together a campaign to make a difference; come up with a better idea--don't just sit around and complain. If you don't like the policies, then work to change them.

If you don't like the present administration, then do something to affect the policies now; and then work to change it when the election comes around again.

But in the meantime, stop with the negative energy and the generalizations against our government and the people who make it up.

I will defend it. The oaths I took when I worked for our government meant something to me. While I no longer work in that capacity, it is still important to me. Too many people have given too much for our freedom for their efforts to be maligned just because you and others feel as "government" is intruding into your lives. If you have not walked in their shoes, then you have no idea how they feel.

But I don't just defend government--I have found plenty wrong with the way things work--the difference is that I think I have a responsibility to do something about it, and I have many, many times. Perhaps you do too, but what comes across from your posts is different from that. All I am asking is that you step back a bit and ask what can you do to make it better. if we all did our part everyday, things would not be the way they are. And, it seems from what you post about yourself that you could make a positive difference.

The "us against them" attitude is destructive and can lead to no good end. I am sick of hearing all the negative snarling...it is just tearing everyone down. I think it is disgusting the way so many people are attacking President Obama. He is what this country used to be about: a poor person who through his hard work and the hard work of his mother and grandparents, made something of himself...against some of the greatest odds there could be. He is a remarkable role model for all young people and for all young fathers...and yet, so many in this country--take every chance they get to put him down. And, they think it is harming him--there is nothing anyone can say that will harm him; or IMO will change him He has already made it through his obstacle path--he knows who he is and he stands on those principles. I don't agree with all he says or does, but I admire him for having the courage to say and do it. And, I do believe that he wants what is best for the country.

As you said on another post, the petty needs to go.

People's lives are more important than intrusions on someone's comfort, IMO.

I ended up going to a UPS store down the street where everything went smoothly. (Imagine my surprise when the UPS guy came out of the store with a loading truck to help me with my packages.. I couldn't even get a parking spot in front of USPS, they were all filled with USPS trucks.) This is just one example of many.

Glad you had a good experience with UPS. They are Dead to Our Household after my MIL mailed a framed painting with them, insured it for four figures, and it arrived at its destination totally trashed and with a tire track across the outside box. UPS refused to pay the insurance claim, saying it must have been improperly boxed, never mind a) that MIL has probably shipped 100+ of her paintings over the years and knows how to box with redundancies and b) the Giant Frelling Tire Track Across the Box.

I don't like our rotating group of mail carriers, but have generally had good experiences with outbound packages from USPS and tend to go with either them or FedEx depending on who's cheaper for shippng a given item.

Thanks for the long and obviously heartfelt response GW. I get the point, there are people in government who actually serve the people. I should point out that a majority of my criticisms tend to be aimed not at the people doing the government's work, they are aimed at the people who give them their marching order. There's an important distinction there which you point out well here in your examples.

No, I don't think you should shut up and keep your opinions to yourself. I would like to hear some positive opinions. There is more than one side to the issue.

I know many people who have spent many years, sometimes a lifetime, working in government jobs with not very much pay and little positive recognition from the general public, and yet they have worked hard to do their jobs because they believed in our country and believed that because they were working in their jobs everyday, someone's life was a bit better.

Maybe a child didn't go hungry because a social worker made one last stop even though she had worked more than her 8 hours already--but, there was that one last stop and she made it, and it made all the difference to that one child.

Or perhaps it was the fireman who heard the alarm on his way home, or his day off, and answered it anyway, because that is what he does...

or the young soldier or airman who stayed behind to help his fallen team mate, even though it meant he lost his life-

-or maybe it was the doctor in the ER of the inner city hospital, who despite the fact that he made half of what some of his former medical school classmates who went into private practice did, stayed with his job, because he felt he made a difference to the people with no insurance who had no place else to go for help.

Or maybe it was the foreign service officer in some Godforsaken country who made just one more effort with the local governor to squash an uprising that might have overrun the embassy and threatened the security of everyone there.

Maybe it was the public school teacher who after working in a classroom of 25 second graders, drove from DeFuniak Springs to South Walton to get trained on a special machine that would help one of her disabled students...no, the school can't afford to reimburse her, and her family has a late, cold dinner once again, but the child in her room needs her help to learn to read.

Maybe it's the single mom or dad who works at the post office and then at the local diner and goes to college in between to try make a better life for the children.

Maybe it was the caretaker in the national park who spent one more moment trimming trees, or mowing lawns, or checking on campfires...so that all the tourists could enjoy themselves.

Maybe it was the cop walking the beat who heard screams for help, and although he was alone, and there was no time for backup, he went to the person's aid anyway.

No, I don't want you to keep your opinions to yourself, I just want some recognition from you, and some others on this board that government is not some strange boogie man or woman somewhere in Washington...government is just people like you and me, many of them trying the best they know how to do the job they have chosen or that has chosen them. The examples I give above are not made up from some "dogooder, idealist" attitude some here have accused me of--no, they are people I know and love --some of them family; some of them now gone, but whose legacy lives on...they may have worked for government, but they made a difference.

They are not the enemy--they are good people who work hard and in my opinion do not deserve to be denigrated just because you feel your life is being intruded upon by some policy.

If you have a problem with it, then do something about it--contact your Congressman or woman; put together a campaign to make a difference; come up with a better idea--don't just sit around and complain. If you don't like the policies, then work to change them.

If you don't like the present administration, then do something to affect the policies now; and then work to change it when the election comes around again.

But in the meantime, stop with the negative energy and the generalizations against our government and the people who make it up.

I will defend it. The oaths I took when I worked for our government meant something to me. While I no longer work in that capacity, it is still important to me. Too many people have given too much for our freedom for their efforts to be maligned just because you and others feel as "government" is intruding into your lives. If you have not walked in their shoes, then you have no idea how they feel.

But I don't just defend government--I have found plenty wrong with the way things work--the difference is that I think I have a responsibility to do something about it, and I have many, many times. Perhaps you do too, but what comes across from your posts is different from that. All I am asking is that you step back a bit and ask what can you do to make it better. if we all did our part everyday, things would not be the way they are. And, it seems from what you post about yourself that you could make a positive difference.

The "us against them" attitude is destructive and can lead to no good end. I am sick of hearing all the negative snarling...it is just tearing everyone down. I think it is disgusting the way so many people are attacking President Obama. He is what this country used to be about: a poor person who through his hard work and the hard work of his mother and grandparents, made something of himself...against some of the greatest odds there could be. He is a remarkable role model for all young people and for all young fathers...and yet, so many in this country--take every chance they get to put him down. And, they think it is harming him--there is nothing anyone can say that will harm him; or IMO will change him He has already made it through his obstacle path--he knows who he is and he stands on those principles. I don't agree with all he says or does, but I admire him for having the courage to say and do it. And, I do believe that he wants what is best for the country.

As you said on another post, the petty needs to go.

People's lives are more important than intrusions on someone's comfort, IMO.

How different are these government folk from the people who work in the private sector you often denigrate? Am I evil simply because I do not work for government? Are all government workers as noble as the examples you mention in your post? Are politicians? I think there is plenty room for criticism, but maybe not so much for the people you felt I find issue with. (and I agree, the us vs. them crap needs to come to an end, er, or I wish it would, but probably won't.)

Glad you had a good experience with UPS. They are Dead to Our Household after my MIL mailed a framed painting with them, insured it for four figures, and it arrived at its destination totally trashed and with a tire track across the outside box. UPS refused to pay the insurance claim, saying it must have been improperly boxed, never mind a) that MIL has probably shipped 100+ of her paintings over the years and knows how to box with redundancies and b) the Giant Frelling Tire Track Across the Box.

I don't like our rotating group of mail carriers, but have generally had good experiences with outbound packages from USPS and tend to go with either them or FedEx depending on who's cheaper for shippng a given item.

Isn't it nice to have a choice? (hope my point is not lost on you.)

Choice can be good, provided there is not unnecessary duplication of services. In cases like trash pick-up, I'm all for exclusive franchise areas.

Choice can be good, provided there is not unnecessary duplication of services. In cases like trash pick-up, I'm all for exclusive franchise areas.

Why? What if the state offered simple trash pickup, but a private firm offered the same plus curb side recycling for an added fee? Would you prefer having only the state run option?

I prefer the smallest number of waste haulers causing large amounts of noise outside my window at 6:45am in the morning. (My neighborhood is the logical starting point for routes, so I've gotten woken up by trash trucks every Saturday morning for years)

The agreement that Okaloosa County and Waste Management has in my area is scarily comprehensive- two general trash, one curbside recycling, one yard waste and one bulk trash every week. If multiple carriers operated in the same area, we'd probably have to go to call-in or quarterly service on the bulk trash, (not cost effective to send that truck around every week if you've only got 20% of the contracts in the area instead of all) and I'd hate to lose that.

I prefer the smallest number of waste haulers causing large amounts of noise outside my window at 6:45am in the morning. (My neighborhood is the logical starting point for routes, so I've gotten woken up by trash trucks every Saturday morning for years)

The agreement that Okaloosa County and Waste Management has in my area is scarily comprehensive- two general trash, one curbside recycling, one yard waste and one bulk trash every week. If multiple carriers operated in the same area, we'd probably have to go to call-in or quarterly service on the bulk trash, (not cost effective to send that truck around every week if you've only got 20% of the contracts in the area instead of all) and I'd hate to lose that.

You didn't answer my question.

Would you prefer having only the state run option?

Would you prefer having only the state run option?

Shopper, you have to be kidding me.

Where is the disconnect with O-P-T-I-O-N????

At the end of the day, its a case of morals and sloppy greed.
​

No one seems to be interested in answering my question. Still waiting...

FYI Scully, having an "option" is part of my point.

Does XYZ mean, "I have nothing more to say?" I've never seen that.

I don't think private=good; public=bad. I actually believe that there are advantages and disadvantages for both arguments regarding both public and private sectors.

Does XYZ mean, "I have nothing more to say?" I've never seen that.

I don't think private=good; public=bad. I actually believe that there are advantages and disadvantages for both arguments regarding both public and private sectors.

('xyz' = some text, which made kurt's software happy about the post where I inlined my reponse in the quote.)