General discussion & info about South Walton, Florida.

All About SoWal

Advertise or find a business, discuss business.

Business & Services

Jobs

Festivals, classes, gatherings, activities.

Events & Music

Food & Dining

Marketplace

property, realtors, builders, development, infrastructure ...

Real Estate

Long Term Rentals

Vacation Rentals

SoWal Lounge

SoWal Insider

[url]http://finance.yahoo.com/news/jeb-bush-made-29-million-205610469.html[/url]  ....exhibit B

<a href="http://finance.yahoo.com/news/jeb-bush-made-29-million-205610469.html" target="_blank" class="link link--external" rel="nofollow ugc noopener">http://finance.yahoo.com/news/jeb-bush-made-29-million-205610469.html</a> ....exhibit B

one party mumbles out the right side....the other the left....and the money flows like it's coming from a firehose

one party mumbles out the right side....the other the left....and the money flows like it&#039;s coming from a firehose

Andy A

Beach Fanatic

It is really sad that our campaign system has developed into who can raise the most money instead of who is the best candidate for the job regardless of funding.

[quote="Andy A, post: 828930"]It is really sad that our campaign system has developed into who can raise the most money instead of who is the best candidate for the job regardless of funding.[/QUOTE]complete corruption, and a government beholden to the few who buy access. there is no "choice". there's the illusion of "choice".

<blockquote class="xfBb-quote" data-name="Andy A">It is really sad that our campaign system has developed into who can raise the most money instead of who is the best candidate for the job regardless of funding.</blockquote>complete corruption, and a government beholden to the few who buy access. there is no &quot;choice&quot;. there&#039;s the illusion of &quot;choice&quot;.

Leader of the Banned

I agree. I certainly felt in the last six presidential elections I had no choice but to vote Democrat.

[quote="Leader of the Banned, post: 828944"]I agree. I certainly felt in the last six presidential elections I had no choice but to vote Democrat.[/QUOTE]the egregious behavior is on both sides. there's no difference. your "choice" is being bought now to be served up to you on the next ballot.

<blockquote class="xfBb-quote" data-name="Leader of the Banned">I agree. I certainly felt in the last six presidential elections I had no choice but to vote Democrat.</blockquote>the egregious behavior is on both sides. there&#039;s no difference. your &quot;choice&quot; is being bought now to be served up to you on the next ballot.

m1a1mg

[quote="Leader of the Banned, post: 828944"]I agree. I certainly felt in the last six presidential elections I had no choice but to vote Democrat.[/QUOTE]

Yes, because Bush vs. Clinton is such a great choice. 

I think, no make that I know, that you missed Bob's point. Too busy spewing your choice of rhetoric.

<blockquote class="xfBb-quote" data-name="Leader of the Banned">I agree. I certainly felt in the last six presidential elections I had no choice but to vote Democrat.</blockquote> 
Yes, because Bush vs. Clinton is such a great choice. 
 
I think, no make that I know, that you missed Bob&#039;s point. Too busy spewing your choice of rhetoric.

[quote="m1a1mg, post: 829102"]Yes, because Bush vs. Clinton is such a great choice. 

I think, no make that I know, that you missed Bob's point. Too busy spewing your choice of rhetoric.[/QUOTE]

Maybe I don't agree with his point.  Actually, today more than ever, I do not agree with the point he was trying to make.

<blockquote class="xfBb-quote" data-name="m1a1mg">Yes, because Bush vs. Clinton is such a great choice. 
 
I think, no make that I know, that you missed Bob&#039;s point. Too busy spewing your choice of rhetoric.</blockquote> 
Maybe I don&#039;t agree with his point. Actually, today more than ever, I do not agree with the point he was trying to make.

[quote="Leader of the Banned, post: 829103"]Maybe I don't agree with his point.  Actually, today more than ever, I do not agree with the point he was trying to make.[/QUOTE]

The point you missed, by a long shot, was profoundly pointed out in your response. You voted against something, not FOR something. That isn't really a "choice", now is it?

<blockquote class="xfBb-quote" data-name="Leader of the Banned">Maybe I don&#039;t agree with his point. Actually, today more than ever, I do not agree with the point he was trying to make.</blockquote> 
The point you missed, by a long shot, was profoundly pointed out in your response. You voted against something, not FOR something. That isn&#039;t really a &quot;choice&quot;, now is it?

[quote="m1a1mg, post: 829133"]The point you missed, by a long shot, was profoundly pointed out in your response. You voted against something, not FOR something. That isn't really a "choice", now is it?[/QUOTE]

Wrong.

<blockquote class="xfBb-quote" data-name="m1a1mg">The point you missed, by a long shot, was profoundly pointed out in your response. You voted against something, not FOR something. That isn&#039;t really a &quot;choice&quot;, now is it?</blockquote> 
Wrong.

mputnal

[quote="Bob, post: 829008"]the egregious behavior is on both sides. there's no difference. your "choice" is being bought now to be served up to you on the next ballot.[/QUOTE]
Yes our government is gradually moving away from freedom and closer toward a very powerful rich class who decide for us what is best for us.  Each two party election will continue this this movement toward money and power because of the illusions being created by both sides.  Idealism is being manipulated by the two party system to keep us divided.  Vote Republican you lose.  Vote Democrat you lose.  Don't vote and you lose.  The big election game is to spend more dollars than the other party for the sole purpose of dividing us.  IMO if you can not see this happening then you have drank your party's illusion spiked coolade!

<blockquote class="xfBb-quote" data-name="Bob">the egregious behavior is on both sides. there&#039;s no difference. your &quot;choice&quot; is being bought now to be served up to you on the next ballot.</blockquote>Yes our government is gradually moving away from freedom and closer toward a very powerful rich class who decide for us what is best for us. Each two party election will continue this this movement toward money and power because of the illusions being created by both sides. Idealism is being manipulated by the two party system to keep us divided. Vote Republican you lose. Vote Democrat you lose. Don&#039;t vote and you lose. The big election game is to spend more dollars than the other party for the sole purpose of dividing us. IMO if you can not see this happening then you have drank your party&#039;s illusion spiked coolade!

[COLOR=#141823][FONT=helvetica]Think about this for a moment.[/FONT][/COLOR]
[COLOR=#141823][FONT=helvetica]Let's say billionaire Donald Trump runs for president as an independent.[/FONT][/COLOR]
[COLOR=#141823][FONT=helvetica]Let's also say that it's Bush vs. Clinton, part deux.[/FONT][/COLOR]
[COLOR=#141823][FONT=helvetica]Billionaire takes enough votes from Bush to guarantee Clinton victory.
Lather, rinse, repeat.
[/FONT][/COLOR]

Think about this for a moment. 
Let&#039;s say billionaire Donald Trump runs for president as an independent. 
Let&#039;s also say that it&#039;s Bush vs. Clinton, part deux. 
Billionaire takes enough votes from Bush to guarantee Clinton victory. 
Lather, rinse, repeat.

Lake View Too

I think that is called a "Reverse Nader", right?

I think that is called a &quot;Reverse Nader&quot;, right?

[quote="m1a1mg, post: 830342"][COLOR=#141823][FONT=helvetica]Think about this for a moment.[/FONT][/COLOR]
[COLOR=#141823][FONT=helvetica]Let's say billionaire Donald Trump runs for president as an independent.[/FONT][/COLOR]
[COLOR=#141823][FONT=helvetica]Let's also say that it's Bush vs. Clinton, part deux.[/FONT][/COLOR]
[COLOR=#141823][FONT=helvetica]Billionaire takes enough votes from Bush to guarantee Clinton victory.
Lather, rinse, repeat.
[/FONT][/COLOR][/QUOTE]

If you're referring to  '92, some have speculated that without Perot in the race, Clinton would have won by an even bigger margin.  This time around though, Trump would steal most of the votes from the R candidate for sure.

<blockquote class="xfBb-quote" data-name="m1a1mg">Think about this for a moment. 
Let&#039;s say billionaire Donald Trump runs for president as an independent. 
Let&#039;s also say that it&#039;s Bush vs. Clinton, part deux. 
Billionaire takes enough votes from Bush to guarantee Clinton victory. 
Lather, rinse, repeat. 
</blockquote> 
If you&#039;re referring to &#039;92, some have speculated that without Perot in the race, Clinton would have won by an even bigger margin. This time around though, Trump would steal most of the votes from the R candidate for sure.

[quote="Leader of the Banned, post: 830415"]If you're referring to  '92, some have speculated that without Perot in the race, Clinton would have won by an even bigger margin.  This time around though, Trump would steal most of the votes from the R candidate for sure.[/QUOTE]
Hahahahahahahaha. Perot stole votes from Clinton? Let the hilarity ensue. Which political commentator said that?

<blockquote class="xfBb-quote" data-name="Leader of the Banned">If you&#039;re referring to &#039;92, some have speculated that without Perot in the race, Clinton would have won by an even bigger margin. This time around though, Trump would steal most of the votes from the R candidate for sure.</blockquote>Hahahahahahahaha. Perot stole votes from Clinton? Let the hilarity ensue. Which political commentator said that?

[quote="m1a1mg, post: 830436"]Hahahahahahahaha. Perot stole votes from Clinton? Let the hilarity ensue. Which political commentator said that?[/QUOTE]

I don't think he stole votes from Bush, but I do think he was a very effective mouth against the incumbent president.

<blockquote class="xfBb-quote" data-name="m1a1mg">Hahahahahahahaha. Perot stole votes from Clinton? Let the hilarity ensue. Which political commentator said that?</blockquote> 
I don&#039;t think he stole votes from Bush, but I do think he was a very effective mouth against the incumbent president.

I don't think you get it. In '92, there were 3 candidates.

Perot-Libertarian
Bush Moderate Conservative
Clinton Moderate Democrat

In what alternate reality do people who would ever vote for Bill Clinton change their minds and vote for Ross Perot?

I don&#039;t think you get it. In &#039;92, there were 3 candidates. 
 
Perot-Libertarian 
Bush Moderate Conservative 
Clinton Moderate Democrat 
 
In what alternate reality do people who would ever vote for Bill Clinton change their minds and vote for Ross Perot?

[quote="m1a1mg, post: 830489"]I don't think you get it. In '92, there were 3 candidates.

Perot-Libertarian
Bush Moderate Conservative
Clinton Moderate Democrat

In what alternate reality do people who would ever vote for Bill Clinton change their minds and vote for Ross Perot?[/QUOTE]

Dennis Miller who at the time was kinda left voted for Perot.  There were others.   He appealed to young people and he appealed to the middle class. Lots of Democrats lean right on fiscal issues.  I voted for Bush in '88.  I myself certainly considered Perot early on.   When he started to go insane I droppped the idea.  The other thing is that I would not want to help Bush get elected by taking my vote away from Clinton.  The man who helped Clinton get elected was Dan Quayle.

Clearly some Republicans voted for Clinton.   I'll bet some of them wavered between Perot and Clinton.  I've seen articles with analysis suggesting that it was more of a break even deal. Google it.  Here's a quote from Wikipedia:

[QUOTE][COLOR=#252525][FONT=sans-serif]A detailed analysis of voting demographics revealed that Perot's support drew heavily from across the political spectrum, with 20% of his votes coming from self-described liberals, 27% from self-described conservatives, and 53% coming from self-described moderates. Economically, however, the majority of Perot voters (57%) were middle class, earning between $15,000 and $49,000 annually, with the bulk of the remainder drawing from the upper middle class (29% earning more than $50,000 annually).[/FONT][/COLOR][SUP][URL="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ross_Perot#cite_note-39"][39][/URL][/SUP][COLOR=#252525][FONT=sans-serif] [B][U]Exit polls also showed that Ross Perot drew 38% of his vote from Bush, and 38% of his vote from Clinton[/U][/B], while the rest of his voters would have stayed home had he not been on the ballot.[/FONT][/COLOR][SUP][URL="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ross_Perot#cite_note-40"][40][/URL][/SUP][/QUOTE]

Let's consider the smoking Clinton doled out in 1992.  This website lets you play with the electoral totals which in 1992 were 370 Clinton, 168 Bush, 0 Perot.  [URL]http://www.270towin.com/1992_Election/interactive_map[/URL]  In the map below, I gave Bush a bunch of states.   I assumed Clinton would win left and right coast, great lake states, Ohio, Iowa.  Please to anyone reading, be reminded this is a [B][U]fictitious worst-case map for Clinton[/U][/B].  You should check out the real deal. I even gave Bush New Hampshire.  Clinton still wins 272 to 266.  So then where was Perot the spolier in the remaining states that Clinton won  California?  New York?  Illinois?, Pennsylvania?, Ohio?   Conclusion, it is a complete and total fallacy that Perot gave the election to Clinton.
[edit]  Oops! I even gave Bush Iowa and Clinton still wins in this worst case scenario!

[ATTACH]41701.vB[/ATTACH]

<blockquote class="xfBb-quote" data-name="m1a1mg">I don&#039;t think you get it. In &#039;92, there were 3 candidates. 
 
Perot-Libertarian 
Bush Moderate Conservative 
Clinton Moderate Democrat 
 
In what alternate reality do people who would ever vote for Bill Clinton change their minds and vote for Ross Perot?</blockquote> 
Dennis Miller who at the time was kinda left voted for Perot. There were others. He appealed to young people and he appealed to the middle class. Lots of Democrats lean right on fiscal issues. I voted for Bush in &#039;88. I myself certainly considered Perot early on. When he started to go insane I droppped the idea. The other thing is that I would not want to help Bush get elected by taking my vote away from Clinton. The man who helped Clinton get elected was Dan Quayle. 
 
Clearly some Republicans voted for Clinton. I&#039;ll bet some of them wavered between Perot and Clinton. I&#039;ve seen articles with analysis suggesting that it was more of a break even deal. Google it. Here&#039;s a quote from Wikipedia: 
 
<blockquote class="xfBb-quote" data-name="">A detailed analysis of voting demographics revealed that Perot&#039;s support drew heavily from across the political spectrum, with 20% of his votes coming from self-described liberals, 27% from self-described conservatives, and 53% coming from self-described moderates. Economically, however, the majority of Perot voters (57%) were middle class, earning between $15,000 and $49,000 annually, with the bulk of the remainder drawing from the upper middle class (29% earning more than $50,000 annually).[SUP]<a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ross_Perot#cite_note-39" target="_blank" class="link link--external" rel="nofollow ugc noopener">[39]</a>[/SUP] Exit polls also showed that Ross Perot drew 38% of his vote from Bush, and 38% of his vote from Clinton, while the rest of his voters would have stayed home had he not been on the ballot.[SUP]<a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ross_Perot#cite_note-40" target="_blank" class="link link--external" rel="nofollow ugc noopener">[40]</a>[/SUP]</blockquote> 
Let&#039;s consider the smoking Clinton doled out in 1992. This website lets you play with the electoral totals which in 1992 were 370 Clinton, 168 Bush, 0 Perot. <a href="http://www.270towin.com/1992_Election/interactive_map" target="_blank" class="link link--external" rel="nofollow ugc noopener">http://www.270towin.com/1992_Election/interactive_map</a> In the map below, I gave Bush a bunch of states. I assumed Clinton would win left and right coast, great lake states, Ohio, Iowa. Please to anyone reading, be reminded this is a fictitious worst-case map for Clinton. You should check out the real deal. I even gave Bush New Hampshire. Clinton still wins 272 to 266. So then where was Perot the spolier in the remaining states that Clinton won California? New York? Illinois?, Pennsylvania?, Ohio? Conclusion, it is a complete and total fallacy that Perot gave the election to Clinton. 
[edit] Oops! I even gave Bush Iowa and Clinton still wins in this worst case scenario! 
 
<a href="https://sowal.com/forum/attachments/41701/"><img src="https://forum.sowal.com/data/attachments/14/14746-abffb40b05a1b84f14ff2b5832c3dc2e.jpg?hash=q_-0CwWhuE" srcset="" alt="1992 election.png" /></a>

Now, go back and look at Ohio and Colorado in the actual vote count. Then redo your map. Ohio was a toss up state for years. [url]http://uselectionatlas.org/RESULTS/national.php?year=1992[/url]

Now, go back and look at Ohio and Colorado in the actual vote count. Then redo your map. Ohio was a toss up state for years. <a href="http://uselectionatlas.org/RESULTS/national.php?year=1992" target="_blank" class="link link--external" rel="nofollow ugc noopener">http://uselectionatlas.org/RESULTS/national.php?year=1992</a>

[url]http://www.ibtimes.com/clinton-speaking-fees-chelsea-paid-65k-talk-30-minutes-1990254[/url]  this is exhibit A

<a href="http://www.ibtimes.com/clinton-speaking-fees-chelsea-paid-65k-talk-30-minutes-1990254" target="_blank" class="link link--external" rel="nofollow ugc noopener">http://www.ibtimes.com/clinton-speaking-fees-chelsea-paid-65k-talk-30-minutes-1990254</a> this is exhibit A

when you vote you have no choice

Grayton BeachCam

Dune Allen BeachCam

Seagrove Beach SkyCam

Inlet BeachCam

Miramar BeachCam Majestic Sun

Santa Rosa BeachCam

Walton County Fair

The Red Bar Jazz Band

Cars of 30A At Alys Beach: Event Highlights & Photo Gallery

Sixth annual Run Watersound At Watersound Town Center October 24, 2026

Support Our Parks: The 2026 Friends of Camp Helen Pumpkin Patch Is Open

Annual Events and Festivals in South Walton

International Coastal Cleanup Day Was A Success In South Walton

Merchants Of Alys Beach Announce New Dining & Shopping Options

No beachcams yet

More cams

Include enough context for a reply on the first pass: who you are, what this is about, and anything time-sensitive we should know.

Write a clear note and we will route it fast

SoWal Contact Form

What helps the SoWal team reply on the first pass

Use these links when your request already has a clear destination.

Prefer a direct route before you write?

Use this when you are not sure where your request belongs and need the SoWal team to route it.

Questions, corrections, and quick help

Share newsworthy updates, corrections, community tips, or photography that can improve SoWal coverage.

Story tips, local leads, and photos

Reach the team for business visibility, partnership planning, or other commercial opportunities.

Listings, sponsorships, and business requests

Use this path for media coordination, press follow-ups, or requests that need a communications contact.

Press outreach and interview requests

Tell us what you need and how to reach you.

Send your note here and the SoWal team will route it appropriately.

Choose the quickest route for your message

Forum account areas

Log in to view member profile, alerts, messages, watched content, bookmarks, preferences, and staff tools.

Member-only forum areas use your SoWal forum account.

Use your forum username or email to post, reply, follow threads, and manage your account.

Log in to the forum

Log in to the SoWal forum

Find people and visit their public forum profiles.

Members

Enter the six-digit code sent to {email}.

Check your email

Join the conversation

Welcome to SoWal

Sign in to SoWal

Signature preview

Ads support our local stories, BeachCams, and community guides. If you use an ad blocker, allow SoWal, then check again.

Help keep SoWal local

Your feedback helps us make SoWal better.

How was this story?

Get local stories, events, and South Walton highlights in your inbox.

Stay close to the coast

Choose whether SoWal may use optional cookies. Necessary cookies keep the site working.

Your privacy, your choice

Site navigation

Submenu

Bite-sized stories, curated itineraries, and community events delivered to your inbox on the regular.

when you vote you have no choice

Latest conversations

Write a reply

Cars of 30A At Alys Beach: Event Highlights & Photo Gallery

Sixth annual Run Watersound At Watersound Town Center October 24, 2026

Support Our Parks: The 2026 Friends of Camp Helen Pumpkin Patch Is Open

Annual Events and Festivals in South Walton