I have a tendency for worrying and planning in advance so that's what's motivating this email. Out of curiosity, how do you think SoWal would fare after a major hurricane like Katrina? For example:
1. What parts would be likely to be most and least harmed by wind/rain (For example, it makes sense that people who aren't on the beach, who are on dunes will fare better than people who are on the beach and on flat land -- Kurt gave some idea of which areas are most at risk.)? What, if anything, would be predicted to be left standing or not completely damaged?
2. Aside from building at or above hurricane code, boarding up windows, and bringing everything inside, is there anything else one can do to protect one's home? What is the best protection for windows and doors? Does this plywood we use work well? Do shutters work as well and what makes for a good versus a poor hurricane shutter? (I heard one of the worst problems is that water seeps in under french doors and damages floors and causes mold very quickly.) I have a friend who's mother's house was across the street from the beach and up on a dune and survived Katrina (whereas all those on the beach were gone). So, some places did survive Katrina.
3. What would the recovery process look like? Is there a way to find out what the local plan is for disaster relief (e.g., it seems like the disaster recovery plan from Louisiana and Mississippi left much to be desired)?
4. Is there anything we can do as owners to encourage SoWal to have a comprehensive and practiced plan in advance (if there isn't one already -- for example, how would the roll-out of services go)?
5. What is the best way for us all to help each other out during an emergency, even from a distance? What information would we need and how would we get it (assuming this board would be out if power isn't available).
Ideally, we won't have to worry about this, but reality is that a 4 or 5 hurricane could happen to us. How do we set ourselves up to be role models of compassion/efficiency/safety before, during, after a hurricane?
This board certainly plays a role! And we'd want our board members all to leave the area and stay safe!
Replies
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SoWal Expert
Maybe this is where us folks who don't live in SoWal could help. We would still have phone access. If your cell phones would work (hopefully) you could contact one of us and we could post any message or relay any message to you guys.
Kurt mentioned that we are assuming a complete wipeout of cell towers. During Hurrican Ivan, the cell towers were so clogged that I was not able to make a call until 4 days after the storm passed. Also, my phone showed that I had 30+ messages, but I was never able to retrieve them.
I understand that text messaging works much better than actual calls for cellular phones when the towers are jammed.
Beach Fanatic
A strong Cat IV or V storm would destroy most structures south of Hwy. 20 and the bridges beyond recovery, with or without a major storm surge. How many people in South Walton remember Gulfport, MI after Camille in 1969? Plywood on windows would be a useless and possibly dangerous deterant to damage. Even Ivan loosened the plywood on our windows almost to the point of its being ripped off. I shudder to think of that huge piece of plywood soaring off of our second story windows, an airborn missile in hurricane-force winds. On the plus side, however, the new building codes are very effective. We have had absolutely no structural damage through several big storms over the past year and we looked very carefully to make sure of that.
Every person in an area threatened by such a storm should simply get out and head for a safer haven, as soon as possible. Everything else is just stuff and can be replaced. We had renters in our house who refused the orders to evacuate before Hurricane Dennis, so very foolish. Their reason? They were having a fmaily birthday party and were just in tears that they might never be able to rent this special house again.
FYI, flood insurance through FEMA is not expensive and it carries only a $500 deductible, whereas hurricane insurance carries a $10,000 deductible. We had some minor damage due to storm surge after Ivan. We received a check for the entire claim before our charge card expenses for cleanup were even received. Everyone should carry flood insurance in a coastal area. I would argue that anyone living in Florida should carry it, for that matter.
Every person in an area threatened by such a storm should simply get out and head for a safer haven, as soon as possible. Everything else is just stuff and can be replaced. We had renters in our house who refused the orders to evacuate before Hurricane Dennis, so very foolish. Their reason? They were having a fmaily birthday party and were just in tears that they might never be able to rent this special house again.
FYI, flood insurance through FEMA is not expensive and it carries only a $500 deductible, whereas hurricane insurance carries a $10,000 deductible. We had some minor damage due to storm surge after Ivan. We received a check for the entire claim before our charge card expenses for cleanup were even received. Everyone should carry flood insurance in a coastal area. I would argue that anyone living in Florida should carry it, for that matter.
Beach FanaticAuthor
Thanks, everyone so far. This is a very interesting and useful discussion. Some people got some new advice (e.g., flood insurance), and there are some interesting areas of discussion that may help people's homes (e.g., what kind of window protection -- plywood, shutters, other) at least to a high cat 3/low cat 4 storm.
The bridge situation would be critical. Does anyone have an arial view or map that shows exit and entry routes, including bridges and/or alternatives? Is there any way to leave or get to So. Wal without going over a bridge, even if it's a long route? If not, what boat services would be available (would one have access if they had access to private/charter boats or would private boats be kept out?).
I hope we never have to use any of this advice, but there's some peace of mind to having it!
The bridge situation would be critical. Does anyone have an arial view or map that shows exit and entry routes, including bridges and/or alternatives? Is there any way to leave or get to So. Wal without going over a bridge, even if it's a long route? If not, what boat services would be available (would one have access if they had access to private/charter boats or would private boats be kept out?).
I hope we never have to use any of this advice, but there's some peace of mind to having it!
Admin
SoWal is an island - bridges in each direction.
To the East is the Phillips Inlet Bridge over Lake Powell which would disappear quickly from surge. Same thing for the Marler Bridge at east Pass in Destin.
That leaves the Clyde B. Wells - 331 causeway and Bridge, and the Mid-bay bridge in Destin. It's possible one of those could survive, but unlikely. I guess it would depend on the wind direction.
To the East is the Phillips Inlet Bridge over Lake Powell which would disappear quickly from surge. Same thing for the Marler Bridge at east Pass in Destin.
That leaves the Clyde B. Wells - 331 causeway and Bridge, and the Mid-bay bridge in Destin. It's possible one of those could survive, but unlikely. I guess it would depend on the wind direction.
SoWal Expert
most of the boats would be destroyed or grounded, or treed (if there is such a thing). Many of the boats run up Four Mile Creek in Freeport and tie off, but with a Cat 4 or 5, they would be gone. My kayak and canoe may prove useful if someone can untie them before the flood comes. One thing is for sure, you wont see me sticking around for such a storm.
Beach FanaticAuthor
Glad you won't stick around. Take anyone who is tempted to stick around with you, SJ. Everyone would take very good care of you and others!
SoWal Expert
Glad you won't stick around. Take anyone who is tempted to stick around with you, SJ. Everyone would take very good care of you and others!
I know you would. I thank the many of you who have offered me places to stay. I may take you up on the offers one day. I will be glad to cook, clean, do chores, etc, or just have a glass of lemonade over a long conversation. Bless you all.
Beach FanaticAuthor
As I said earlier, you or anyone else is welcome in Michigan. The weather here is very nice in the summer/fall during southern hurricane season. the snow storms typically don't start until Halloween (just kidding -- we almost always get to November before the snow hits!). Our summers here are wonderful because the weather is very nice (can get hot like SoWal, though, but not for so many days in a row typically), it's a university town with all the restaurants, movie theatres, etc., but most of the students are gone for the summer and the town is quiet and easy to manage. We can do hurricane central from here...
SoWal Expert
As I said earlier, you or anyone else is welcome in Michigan. The weather here is very nice in the summer/fall during southern hurricane season. the snow storms typically don't start until Halloween (just kidding -- we almost always get to November before the snow hits!). Our summers here are wonderful because the weather is very nice (can get hot like SoWal, though, but not for so many days in a row typically), it's a university town with all the restaurants, movie theatres, etc., but most of the students are gone for the summer and the town is quiet and easy to manage. We can do hurricane central from here...
Where are you located? I attended some classes at MSU, which has a beautiful campus.
Beach Fanatic
I don't want to be doom and gloom, but I also don't want anyone to have a false sense of security. I've resisted posting this because I don't want to scare anyone. However, my husband was told by the head of the Walton County Building Dept. that 30-A (and Hwy 20) would have been "whiped-out" by Katrina. The new building code has helped, but no construction can be strong enough to withstand winds much greater than 130 m.p.h. Concrete construction is definitely the best way to go and if we build another house near the coast, we are going to build one with reinforced concrete.
That said, the large Cat 4 and 5 hurricane are very rare and there is a lot we can do in preparation and construction to withstand the more common smaller storms.
I disagree that 30-A and Hwy 20 would be "wiped out". Again, I wouldn't advise anyone to stay for a Category 4-5, but I would expect that most of us would return to damaged, but intact houses.
As backup to my claim, I would like to direct everyone to aerial images of coastal Mississippi taken yesterday by NOAA. Please go to http://ngs.noaa.gov/storms/katrina and look at images of Gulfport. The debris line (from storm surge) extends a distance inland; but the houses north of that are basically intact, with roofs still on.
I'm not trying to minimize the extend of damage here, but just present a reasonable assumption of what a Cat 4-5 landfall in south Walton might bring.
Admin
We sure do have a lot of variety in quality and type of construction around here. Some builders are shoddy and some overbuild. Assuming codes are met, door and window quality and proper installation makes the difference on whether your envelope remains intact. Lose one pane and your (stickbuilt) house is gone.
Beach FanaticAuthor
Where are you located? I attended some classes at MSU, which has a beautiful campus.
__________________
I believe Thoreau wrote something refering to that which is important -- (not in so many words) It is not the number of shirts you own, but the number of shirts you wear out.
Smiling JOe
The Business School at the University of Michigan in Ann Arbor. We love it here (except for the cold weather). I have a very good friend who teaches in industrial relations at MSU and lives in Okemos -- it's a great school. MSU is in a beautiful location, too, and they -- along with Ohio -- are our biggest rivals during football season (but I don't pay any attention to football...).
Ok, SJ, we're getting off topic (what did you study at MSU?)... Ok, let's get back to saving SoWal... we need a communication system ready to go and some boats to come in to get people to their homes when they need to get back and it's considered safe (and to bring food and water in). Where would the closest available boats be that we could recruit given all our boats would likely be inoperable?
__________________
I believe Thoreau wrote something refering to that which is important -- (not in so many words) It is not the number of shirts you own, but the number of shirts you wear out.
Smiling JOe
The Business School at the University of Michigan in Ann Arbor. We love it here (except for the cold weather). I have a very good friend who teaches in industrial relations at MSU and lives in Okemos -- it's a great school. MSU is in a beautiful location, too, and they -- along with Ohio -- are our biggest rivals during football season (but I don't pay any attention to football...).
Ok, SJ, we're getting off topic (what did you study at MSU?)... Ok, let's get back to saving SoWal... we need a communication system ready to go and some boats to come in to get people to their homes when they need to get back and it's considered safe (and to bring food and water in). Where would the closest available boats be that we could recruit given all our boats would likely be inoperable?
Edited
Beach Fanatic
Beach Fanatic
FYI, flood insurance through FEMA is not expensive and it carries only a $500 deductible, whereas hurricane insurance carries a $10,000 deductible. We had some minor damage due to storm surge after Ivan. We received a check for the entire claim before our charge card expenses for cleanup were even received. Everyone should carry flood insurance in a coastal area. I would argue that anyone living in Florida should carry it, for that matter.
We have flood insurance on our houses, but at the time that I got it I was told that there was a cap of $250,000. I've recently heard that you can buy additional flood coverage. Does anyone know if this is true?
Christini Zambini
I disagree that 30-A and Hwy 20 would be "wiped out". Again, I wouldn't advise anyone to stay for a Category 4-5, but I would expect that most of us would return to damaged, but intact houses.
.
You may disagree with Billy Bearden, but as he is the person who approves most of the building plans in the county, I think he knows a thing or two about construction. He said 30A would be wiped out, not all of SoWal. 30A is anything within 1 mile of 30A and most homes that close to the Gulf would not make it through the winds of a Cat 4-5. Those winds are the same as an F 2-5 tornado. The only home that is likely withstand those winds is Charlie Hilton's (all concrete)--without the glass. In fact, the dunes would probably be washed away from under it and I wouldn't be surprised if that house floated away.
SoWal Insider
I don't want to be doom and gloom, but I also don't want anyone to have a false sense of security. I've resisted posting this because I don't want to scare anyone. However, my husband was told by the head of the Walton County Building Dept. that 30-A (and Hwy 20) would have been "whiped-out" by Katrina. The new building code has helped, but no construction can be strong enough to withstand winds much greater than 130 m.p.h. Concrete construction is definitely the best way to go and if we build another house near the coast, we are going to build one with reinforced concrete.Concrete monolithic dome construction[there is at least one in Pensacola Beach], would withstand any Cat 4 or 5 hurricane with no problems. They also do better w/ storm surge. They leave a lot in the looks department, and I'll bet they are pricey.
That said, the large Cat 4 and 5 hurricane are very rare and there is a lot we can do in preparation and construction to withstand the more common smaller storms.
Admin
You may disagree with Billy Bearden, but as he is the person who approves most of the building plans in the county, I think he knows a thing or two about construction. He said 30A would be wiped out, not all of SoWal. 30A is anything within 1 mile of 30A and most homes that close to the Gulf would not make it through the winds of a Cat 4-5. Those winds are the same as an F 2-5 tornado. The only home that is likely withstand those winds is Charlie Hilton's (all concrete)--without the glass. In fact, the dunes would probably be washed away from under it and I wouldn't be surprised if that house floated away.
I looked at the Miss. sat photos and saw what twt described. A few structures intact south of the surge debris line, but almost all intact north of the debris line. I was surprised - a lot of those structures I wouldn't think are built to Florida recent standards. I think it all depends on whether your envelope gets compromised by falling tree, debris, or wind pressures, etc. In the eyewall, within microbursts, tornadoes, etc. it's a bit of the luck of the draw. Things like nearby hills, rises, tree barriers, buildings, open water, all kinds of variations. A few miles one way or the other . . . .
Beach FanaticAuthor
So, it sounds like one of the most important things we can do to protect our property is to get very good coverage for windows/doors/etc. so wind/rain doesn't get in. Doing so could save quite a few houses and a lot of insurance and personal money. And plywood is OK, but not great from what I am hearing on this board (better than nothing for sure). I'm going to take a look at that thread from a while ago on hurricane shutters...
Beach FanaticAuthor
We'd want to be sure the poorest in the area are taken care of as well, not just vacation home owners. The concern, as most readers know, is that some are starting to say that the slow reaction to NO may be about race and class as well, and I would not want SoWal to prioritize help based on race, class, etc., but rather on need. I think if we think about these issues as citizens in advance, we're much more likely to do the right things when and if the time comes. We'd need to remember that like NO and other areas hit by Katrina, our officials will also be facing the same challenges that the other citizens are and may not be able to offer as much help as any plan they have in place -- and it's unclear how much help the federal government will give and when (or where SoWal would be in the list of priorities).
Beach Fanatic
...some are starting to say that the slow reaction to NO may be about race and class...The primary responsibility for securing and managing any city in crisis lies with its mayor and the city government. The mayor of New Orleans is black. So are many, if not most, of the city officials--chief of police, various council people, etc. Much, if not most, of the city's police force is also black.
I really don't think this is the right time play the race card.
SoWal Expert
We'd want to be sure the poorest in the area are taken care of as well, not just vacation home owners. The concern, as most readers know, is that some are starting to say that the slow reaction to NO may be about race and class as well, and I would not want SoWal to prioritize help based on race, class, etc., but rather on need. I think if we think about these issues as citizens in advance, we're much more likely to do the right things when and if the time comes. We'd need to remember that like NO and other areas hit by Katrina, our officials will also be facing the same challenges that the other citizens are and may not be able to offer as much help as any plan they have in place -- and it's unclear how much help the federal government will give and when (or where SoWal would be in the list of priorities).
It sounds as though everyone needs to ask for help if we get hit. The excuses going around now are that no one asked for help.
I agree, evacuation should be prioritized based on need. Sick, elderly, children, women, men, not splitting up families whenever possible. Our lack of a dense population may make this difficult to do. We would likely see the rescues be based on rescuers proximity to any victims.
SoWal Expert
The primary responsibility for securing and managing any city in crisis lies with its mayor and the city government. The mayor of New Orleans is black. So are many, if not most, of the city officials--chief of police, various council people, etc. Much, if not most, of the city's police force is also black.I hear you about the race card. I don't know the reasons why people are not getting help. It would be just as likely, and possibly far from the truth, that the insurance companies or gov't, for the uninsured, did not want to go bankrupt. If they let everyone die, they would not have to pay out money to the victims.
I really don't think this is the right time play the race card.
Maybe the govt was blocking the only way out to "protect" the neighboring town? I just don't have a grasp for what is happening and not happening in NOLA.
In SoWal, if we have to rely on local politicians to save us, I guess Commissioner Cindy Meadows would be the only one trying to save us. All the other Commissioners live in NoWal and don't seem to take care of SoWal.
Beach Fanatic
Good points, as always, SJ.
One thing though...the insurance companies do not have any control over how the city responds. It is ultimately the city's, and then the state's, responsibility. The police and fire department are under control of the mayor. The National Guard is under control of the governor. The Feds step in when all else fails--which is exactly what happened this time.
One thing though...the insurance companies do not have any control over how the city responds. It is ultimately the city's, and then the state's, responsibility. The police and fire department are under control of the mayor. The National Guard is under control of the governor. The Feds step in when all else fails--which is exactly what happened this time.
SoWal Expert
Good points, as always, SJ.
One thing though...the insurance companies do not have any control over how the city responds. It is ultimately the city's, and then the state's, responsibility. The police and fire department are under control of the mayor. The National Guard is under control of the governor. The Feds step in when all else fails--which is exactly what happened this time.
I know the insurance don't have that pull at a local level. If it were handled at a Federal level only, I would be suspicious. I believe the closer truth is that NOLA has elected an idiot to be their Mayor, and he operates by top-down management. It is times like these when your vote counts. If we are lucky, this kind of disaster does not occur, but when it does, you better hope you have the right people in place. Personally, I think if Katrina hit us, Comm. Meadows would be fighting for us, and herself, and the other Commissioners, if we are lucky, would be on the north side of the Bay saying swim.
Beach Lover
There are waterproofing experts that can help you before, during, and after construction. They can be invaluable during installation of doors and windows.
Got any names of waterproofing experts? We're starting to build our house now.
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