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Parking Problems at Public Beach Accesses

Smiling JOe avatar
Smiling JOeSoWal Expert
4,050 views
From the other thread:

SJ:

You are correct, a big issue is parking and will continue to be unfortunately there are only a few places where the County owns land that is large enough for parking and restrooms. The TDC doesn't own anything, not even the building we are sitting in because we can't buy property. It has to be the County Commission. We are the developers/managers/maintainers of the access areas just like Public Works maintains roads.

One question I would be curious for input on from anyone who cares to answer- building parking "garages" at the existing beach accesses that have parking capability. Please let me preface this by saying there are no plans for this along 30-A so please don't start spreading rumors that the TDC is going to build parking garages at beach accesses on 30-A :nono1: , it is only a question for discussion.

Brad, thanks for the clarification on the TDC/County. It was always a gray area to me, as it probably is to most people. You explained it clearly.

As for parking decks, while parking is the biggest issue IMO, I don't think parking decks are the answer. I picture parking decks as a four story concrete nasty looking object, which will dump a crap load of people onto one small access. I think we need some parking at all of the public accesses. Right now, it would be nice to see a few more additional parking lots similar in size to the one btw WaterColor and Seaside, several more accesses with parking area similar in size to Ed Walline, and perhaps at some of the lesser used accesses could have parking area similar in size to the one at Oyster Lake (or is it Lake Allen).

Now if they could design a parking garage to look like a Florida Cottage, maybe...:scratch: Perhaps there are designs for parking garages which are well designed asthetically speaking, and maybe they could blend in, but I wouldn't want to see them blocking off the only remaining views of the Gulf.

Brad, will you comment on the lack of restrooms and any plans for the future for them at these accesses? I think that is almost as critical as the parking.

when is the tdc going to start building these garages?;-)

i think a multi story parking facility at the watercolor/seaside lot would be a great idea, since a large footprint is probably required for the ramps. i'm sure homeownwers adjacent to it would be screaming about it, but what choice do we have. the county is growing, and there's no question that available parking(legal or not) is dissappearing. the county really needs to start planning yesterday on how to keep up. it's quite the catch 22. >> soon, it may be too much of a hassle to bring the nuclear family here, and they'll find the next best place, or at least a place where they can park within 500' of the beach.

I would like to throw an idea into the hat regarding parking garages. If you guys decide to build them, build them for the users, not the County. Don't max these things out with "small car only" spaces which no one other than rapunzel can use, just to pump up the number of spaces in the literature.

Brad, I have seen some small garages in Atlanta, but it seems to me that the ramps take up so much of the space. With the existing properties owned by the County, how many are large enough to erect a garage?

Replies

15
John R avatar
John Rneeds to get out more
#2
Smiling JOe, i agree with you that many/most parking structures are some of the most unappealing sights out there. but there are those that are less unappealing than others. i honestly don't see what other choice we have than to stack on the existing property we have. we know the county can't afford to buy property, heck they can barely build parks on 98 and north(which is another topic entirely). i've said it before, and now again. when the next hurricaine season comes, and there's more houses teetering on the edge, the county should condemn the property, buy it via eminent domain, and make it into public space. great way to acquisition needed space. i'm sure i've said the wrong thing again. looking forward to other views.

brad, in addition to not making micro spaces, no need to make allowances those with mini-tanks either. standard spacing should suffice.

Edited

BPickelTDCBeach Lover
#3
From the other thread:

Good a clean thread and as always please note this is not being looked at as an option at this time just something I thru out for discussion purposes only- don't start rumors about the TDC building parking garages John R :nono1: ;-)

In a nutshell County accesses are an amalgamation of different sizes and shapes and some of them are not even owned by the County. For example, we have some as small as 5 feet and some as large as 1,100 feet. Most of them along 30-A are the 5-feet version unfortunately, but I did want to outline where we are.

We classify beach accesses two ways, regional and neighborhood. Neighborhood typically have little or no parking and no restrooms. Regional will have parking and over time may have restrooms.

We have Miramar Beach, which is being rebuilt as a bridge like structure so it won't be lost to storms, with restrooms and 130+ spots.
Dune Allen Regional Beach Access which is a Bureau of Land Management Property that we have a lease. It is fully developed with restrooms and parking. Since it is a BLM property it went through a stringent environmental assesment and limited it's overall size.
Ed Walline which is fully developed with restrooms.
Gulfview Heights which is fully developed with restrooms.
Blue Mountain (end of CR 83) which is scheduled to be overhauled after the 2007 summer season with 20 parking spots and a smaller restroom with one male and one female stall. It was a new design for this site.
Grayton Beach- has limited parking and no restroom, would be interesting to develop due to much of the land being owned by the state park
Van Ness Butler (between WC and Seaside) which is scheduled for 101 parking spots and restrooms, and we hope to break ground in Summer 2007
Santa Clara (Bramble Grove) which is fully developed with restrooms and parking
Walton Dunes which is located beside Dunes of Seagrove, east of Eastern Lake- this is a BLM site with development challenges due to its ongoing impacts from storms, parking is possible but restrooms may not be practical
Inlet Beach- Phase 1 parking and accesses are complete, restrooms to be constructed after VRB and Blue Mountain, probably in 2008.

As for small parking areas like the one you mentioned (Lake Causeway), we try and develop those where they will fit. Depending on the size of the land more or less are possible.

One other issue that will most likely move access to the forefront of discussion in the coming months is beach restoration. To receive full state cost sharing, you must have walkovers, 100 parking spaces and restrooms per mile of beach. The parking and restrooms must be located within 1/4 mile of the beach. They do not have to be publically owned per se, but must be available at equal opportunity to the public. A good example of one that may qualify even though it is privately owned is Seaside. There is a stretch of beach the public can access and there are restrooms available for use by the public. However, access is going to be a huge issue in other areas of the beach.

I hope this helps and highlights that it is going to make for interesting times in South Walton 😀
Smiling JOe avatar
Smiling JOeSoWal ExpertAuthor
#4
Smiling JOe, i agree with you that many/most parking structures are some of the most unappealing sights out there. but there are those that are less unappealing than others. i honestly don't see what other choice we have than to stack on the existing property we have. we know the county can't afford to buy property, heck they can barely build parks on 98 and north(which is another topic entirely). i've said it before, and now again. when the next hurricaine season comes, and there's more houses teetering on the edge, the county should condemn the property, buy it via eminent domain, and make it into public space. great way to acquisition needed space. i'm sure i've said the wrong thing again. looking forward to other views.

brad, in addition to not making micro spaces, no need to make allowances those with mini-tanks either. standard spacing should suffice.

Perhaps this could be a good thing for the property owners who seem to be stuck without being able to sell their properties. There are plenty in Seagrove and BMB which are on the market. The downside to those is that if parking is built on top of them, they could be costly to replace when the mother storms roll in. I think it seems much more feasible to have the parking across the street from the accesses, such as the Van Ness Butlner access btw Seaside and WaterCooler. I know there will be safety issues with people crossing traffic and I don't have an answer for that.
jimmyp5 avatar
jimmyp5Beach Lover
#5
Brad, thanks for the summary of all the current County beach access points and facilities .... not enoungh yet for posterity, but already more than some folks realize.

And also thanks for the heads-up on one of the requirements (at least one access with facilities per mile) for State cost-sharing on full SoWal beach renourishment -- which I bet almost all of us agree is essential.

The possibility of parking ramps seems unfortunate but, I'll tell you, I think it would beat turning Seagrove Villas into a major beach club, and locating the Redfish Beach Club on a rezoned residential parcel(s), and the next one and the next one after that.
Smiling JOe avatar
Smiling JOeSoWal ExpertAuthor
#6
jimmyp, I hear you on that one. Maybe if we already had this parking, these developers would not have to try to build this private walkovers. I don't know how much it would help, but maybe the County could charge any developers a fee for beach parking which could be used solely for the County to buy property (Not from Ro Cuchens's cousins) solely for the public parking, when a developer increases the existing density of a property. The fee could be based on the number of units increased over the exisiting zoning. Just an idea, although much to late to do anything abou the existing problems. I guess now, all the developers will love me. (Actually, this idea may be more cost effective for the developers than spending $9Million on two lots with no parking :idontno:) I would think the $9 Million alone would buy a little bit of concrete.
Beach Bimmer avatar
Beach BimmerBeach Fanatic
#7
One other issue that will most likely move access to the forefront of discussion in the coming months is beach restoration. To receive full state cost sharing, you must have walkovers, 100 parking spaces and restrooms per mile of beach. The parking and restrooms must be located within 1/4 mile of the beach.

I wonder if those requirements could be part of the key to finding common ground between developers wanting beach access & the county needs in order to secure state cost sharing as Brad outlines.

In short, have the county develop a list of locations where they need to add land & facilities in order to meet the state requirements for beach restoration. Then require any developer wanting beach access near where a new county access needs to be located to buy adequate land to accomodate the 100 parking spaces and facilities; have them pay to build the required infrastructure; and require said developer to then donate 100% of the land & facilities to the county.

While I realize some will argue that this puts a hardship on the developer, recognize that the developers are already paying many, many millions along 30-A just to acquire lots and then attempt to rezone them for their own beach accesses. Why not have them "pay to play" on behalf of the county and the public, rather than trying to continue the rezoning quagmire with private lots?

Note that I'm not a realtor, developer, nor investor, just a concerned citizen that wants to see public beach access preserved and increased going forward.
BeachSteelers avatar
BeachSteelersBeach Fanatic
#8
I'm not scared to suggest it, so here goes. How bout BioDeisel shuttles ( old school buses)throughout the communities on and around 30A. 2 or 3 to cruise around all day picking up/dropping off people at various designated locations. Various businesses could sponsor with Ads. Lowering the costs. All the eateries can donate their oil as well as right it off as donations. More lower of costs. Truely may only be needed Memorial to Labor Day. Asthetically more pleasing than a parking garage.
Am I on to something or should I go hug a tree?
SGB avatar
SGBBeach Fanatic
#9
I think someone said this earlier, my objection to a parking garage being built at some of these locations is that the current parking is between 30A and the beach, and these areas are some of the only places that you can actually see the beach from 30A. For instance, at Fort Panic in Dune Allen, I look forward to getting a glimpse of the ocean whenever I drive by. If there is a parking deck there, the view of the water and dunes will be blocked. Also, it seems that there will be an odd mixture of beautiful nature and a jarring dose of city life (parking decks).

Brad - I really enjoy reading your very balanced and informative posts!

Edited

Jdarg avatar
JdargSoWal Expert
#10
I'm not scared to suggest it, so here goes. How bout BioDeisel shuttles ( old school buses)throughout the communities on and around 30A. 2 or 3 to cruise around all day picking up/dropping off people at various designated locations. Various businesses could sponsor with Ads. Lowering the costs. All the eateries can donate their oil as well as right it off as donations. More lower of costs. Truely may only be needed Memorial to Labor Day. Asthetically more pleasing than a parking garage.
Am I on to something or should I go hug a tree?[/quote]

I think it's kind of a cool idea, but a few on the board may tell you to pucker up and start making out with that tree....
Miss Kitty avatar
Miss KittyMeow
#11
I'm not scared to suggest it, so here goes. How bout BioDeisel shuttles ( old school buses)throughout the communities on and around 30A. 2 or 3 to cruise around all day picking up/dropping off people at various designated locations. Various businesses could sponsor with Ads. Lowering the costs. All the eateries can donate their oil as well as right it off as donations. More lower of costs. Truely may only be needed Memorial to Labor Day. Asthetically more pleasing than a parking garage.
Am I on to something or should I go hug a tree?[/quote]

I think it's kind of a cool idea, but a few on the board may tell you to pucker up and start making out with that tree....


:floor: ...including his wife!
Mango avatar
MangoSoWal Insider
#12
In a nutshell County accesses are an amalgamation of different sizes and shapes and some of them are not even owned by the County. For example, we have some as small as 5 feet and some as large as 1,100 feet. Most of them along 30-A are the 5-feet version unfortunately, but I did want to outline where we are.

We classify beach accesses two ways, regional and neighborhood. Neighborhood typically have little or no parking and no restrooms. Regional will have parking and over time may have restrooms.

We have Miramar Beach, which is being rebuilt as a bridge like structure so it won't be lost to storms, with restrooms and 130+ spots.
Dune Allen Regional Beach Access which is a Bureau of Land Management Property that we have a lease. It is fully developed with restrooms and parking. Since it is a BLM property it went through a stringent environmental assesment and limited it's overall size.
Ed Walline which is fully developed with restrooms.
Gulfview Heights which is fully developed with restrooms.
As for small parking areas like the one you mentioned (Lake Causeway), we try and develop those where they will fit. Depending on the size of the land more or less are possible.

Brad:
Are there different ownership rights between regional and neighborhood beach accesses?
I own property in Gulfview Heights, but I have seen some listings for properties there stating that GV Heights owners have deeded beach access. My deed says nothing of the sort? Just things like I can not put a gin mill or build a dollie house etc. :lol:

Thanks.
Bob avatar
BobSoWal Insider
#13
I'm not scared to suggest it, so here goes. How bout BioDeisel shuttles ( old school buses)throughout the communities on and around 30A. 2 or 3 to cruise around all day picking up/dropping off people at various designated locations. Various businesses could sponsor with Ads. Lowering the costs. All the eateries can donate their oil as well as right it off as donations. More lower of costs. Truely may only be needed Memorial to Labor Day. Asthetically more pleasing than a parking garage.
Am I on to something or should I go hug a tree?[/quote]

I think it's kind of a cool idea, but a few on the board may tell you to pucker up and start making out with that tree....
With bio-diesel, the beach may smell more like french fries. Cool!
BPickelTDCBeach Lover
#14
Brad:
Are there different ownership rights between regional and neighborhood beach accesses?
I own property in Gulfview Heights, but I have seen some listings for properties there stating that GV Heights owners have deeded beach access. My deed says nothing of the sort? Just things like I can not put a gin mill or build a dollie house etc. :lol:

Thanks.

No, the TDC currently maintains OVER 65 beach and bay accesses that are all County owned. The only difference between Regional and Neighborhood accesses are amenities. The Regional Beach Access at Gulfview Heights is County-owned, so it is in essence deeded to the public.
BMBWalkerBeach Lover
#15
No, the TDC currently maintains OVER 65 beach and bay accesses that are all County owned. The only difference between Regional and Neighborhood accesses are amenities. The Regional Beach Access at Gulfview Heights is County-owned, so it is in essence deeded to the public.

Brad...is there an average distance between these accesses or do you just put them wherever the law allows? I realize you may not have control over the position of every access, but I am interested in knowing if there is a formal placement concept for accesses or if it's just place them whever you can get the land.

Thanks.
BPickelTDCBeach Lover
#16
Brad...is there an average distance between these accesses or do you just put them wherever the law allows? I realize you may not have control over the position of every access, but I am interested in knowing if there is a formal placement concept for accesses or if it's just place them whever you can get the land.

Thanks.

We typically try to identify locations that are at least 1,200 feet apart (5-minute walk) for the creation of NEW accesses. This stems from a demand analysis from our 2000 Recreational Plan that identified the maximum distance someone would walk for access. Now aren't you glad/suprised we actually research these things ;-) 😀

That being said many older ones are much closer then 1,200 feet, but we have areas that are in a deficit and are a priority. We call those "areas of unserved walkable demand." We have made strides in feeling in the gaps since 2000 in the Dune Allen area, but you are right that they are driven by accessible land. We are looking at developing a few more accesses in the coming years if we can keep those hurricanes at bay!! However, our priority today is to repair the ones that haven't been built since Dennis, and bring the older accesses that aren't up to code into compliance so we don't get sued. Yes, we do get sued...:(

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