Emergency BCC Meeting - 8/1/05

I applaud the education that goes on here and am mighty grateful for it! I should have stated my thoughts better. I don't look down on anyone but I do not appreciate beach goers that come here and show little or no respect for public and private property. What I would love to see is a better effort on the part of the federal, state, county and local government educating the public about the beaches and dunes. I suppose that in a 'perfect' world the beaches would be left untouched by man only to be viewed from afar. Alas, this isn't a perfect world nor or we perfect people. All we can do is the best we can. In reading the threads on this forum it is heart warming to realize so many people from near and far are passionate about the beaches and dunes.

That would be an extremely imperfect world where I wouldn't want to be.

A lot of education can be done on the grass roots level, which we all can do, while pushing a bit for help from the government.

Where did you get your info on Galveston? I read that the hurricane damaged houses were built without following legal guidelines and are the only private dwellings involved. Also, when did the Texas Land Grant office make this ruling as I read the decision has been delayed.

I own a gulf front beach house south of Galveston. I can confirm that there are indeed a number of properties that are now in the public right of way (i.e. *on* the beach, you actually even have to go under some of these houses (all houses on pilings) at high tide when walking the beach) and are slated to be removed by state of TX.

All TX deeds (since 1984 I think) have caveat emptor language that says in effect: If your property ends up on public property (the beach) due to shifting coast, you are SOL.

While many of these properties were presumably not built so close to the beach 5,10,20,30 years ago, mother nature has moved the mean high tideline in an unfortunate direction, in some cases dramatically. By TX law, these houses are now illegal (many as result of hurricane a few years back).

There is currently a 2 year GLO issued moratorium regarding removal (moratorium meter started about a year ago, so about a year left) after which time the GLO (TX Gen Land Office) has said 'we understand this sucks for you MR/Ms homeowner, but the law is clear and you need to move or we will move you'.

GLO I believe is also offering some financial assistance to homeoners within the moratorium timeframe as an incentive. Carrot and stick thing, b/c if individual homeowners choose to stay/litigate beyond moratorium they lose the financial assistance option.

Anyway, not sure this is all that helpful or even interesting, but, you know, I'm never one to pass up an opportuntity to sound marginally intelligent in a public forum. (Kurt- I need a Cliff Claven icon: "Well, actually Narm, it's a little known fact that....") ;-)

I also take issue with the comments that the damage was done by homeowners - the damage was done by storms. My gulf front property was built along guidelines set up by the government and followed to a 't'. These guidelines change from time to time and will continue as circumstances change. Maybe the " let's blame the homeowners crowd" are folks pea green with envy.
I have seen so much damage done here by tourists that it's sickening. Sliding down dunes on
plastic garbage bags, boogie boards, etc. I've seem them throw garbage on dunes and beach, let their dogs poop and just keep on walking. No one takes them to task or even considers educating them. I've seen them dig big pits for fires at night and leave them, I've picked up enough trash on the beach to build a mountain. As a homeowner here who loves this area and it's people I deeply resent being blamed for all the wrongs that storms have wrought. The suggestion that beach front homes be taken from homeowners is beyond the pale. If my home can be 'taken' from me, then I ask, is your home safe?

"pea green with envy"...jeez, I certainly hope you don't really believe this!! I hear frustration and stress in your post and as we all tend to do you seem to be finding a way to cope with your situation. I can't blame you for that...I posted earlier that if found in your situation, I would like to think I would protect the natural resources before protecting my "second" home. We are not gulf front, but I remember freaking out over Ivan possibly damaging south facing windows on our second and third floor home south of 30-A. I finally came to my senses and realized it was all insured and it was just "THINGS" and the real threat was to the things that man cannot replace. (like the umbrella pines on Western Lake...right Kurt?!!)

We all take a risk owning in a beach habitat...gulf front owners bearing the biggest risk. We have taken many walks on the beach since 1986 and used to dream of owning gulf front...actually we would have taken anything!!! We considered you "lucky stiffs"! I don't do envy. When you build on sand, things are going to shift and when the land is gone, it is gone!...you must have thought this out before purchasing your home. I hope for recovery for allof youl on the gulf and that if rebuilding is in the future everyone looks to the future and not to a quick fix (brown soil on the beach).

Whew, getting dizzy up here on the soapbox. Thanks for letting ME vent! Remember, this is my opinion and it was not intended to offend anyone. I am always looking to be educated and welcome your response!

The DEP has determined that the dark soil on Blue Mountain Beach is a 4 on the Munsell scale and would have directed it to be removed had the county not done so.

The DEP has determined that the dark soil on Blue Mountain Beach is a 4 on the Munsell scale and would have directed it to be removed had the county not done so.

five months later on sunday

Have searched the Board for what PCB did in the way of beach restoration. Deemed a success and why? Thanks!

I also take issue with the comments that the damage was done by homeowners - the damage was done by storms. My gulf front property was built along guidelines set up by the government and followed to a 't'. These guidelines change from time to time and will continue as circumstances change. Maybe the " let's blame the homeowners crowd" are folks pea green with envy.
I have seen so much damage done here by tourists that it's sickening. Sliding down dunes on
plastic garbage bags, boogie boards, etc. I've seem them throw garbage on dunes and beach, let their dogs poop and just keep on walking. No one takes them to task or even considers educating them. I've seen them dig big pits for fires at night and leave them, I've picked up enough trash on the beach to build a mountain. As a homeowner here who loves this area and it's people I deeply resent being blamed for all the wrongs that storms have wrought. The suggestion that beach front homes be taken from homeowners is beyond the pale. If my home can be 'taken' from me, then I ask, is your home safe?

Just want to correct you on a few things.

I don't blame homeowners for the damage. I only state that based on deduction, if you build your home on the rim of the Grand Canyon, get ready to rent a big crane to remove it from the bottom. That is a risk you take. It does not matter if your building meets new codes when there is no longer any earth to support it.

Regarding no one taking people to tasks or educating them on ideas of not leaving garbage on the beach, including dog poop, perma tents, etc., you have not been reading my posts or many others' posts. Go back to before posts before sharks and hurricanes. There are numerous examples.

Regarding the taking of Gulf-front homes. I was using a twisted sense of humor. If you read earlier posts, you will see that we are all pissed about the ruling of the Court concerning eminent domain. We are all at risk.

As I stated in a recent post, my home is at risk and I took that into consideration when moving into Hurricane Alley. In fact, all I have, including my life, is at risk every day in this mixed up world. Here today, gone tomorrow. I fully understand the way of life, although there are a few missing pieces in between the two ends.

I *think* PCB did a full-scale dredging project designed to not only restore dunes, but widen the beaches. This was the approach I advocated for Walton County. It is, however, VERY expensive and I understand why they didn't go that route. But if we get another storm, it may be the only remaining option.

I *think* PCB did a full-scale dredging project designed to not only restore dunes, but widen the beaches. This was the approach I advocated for Walton County. It is, however, VERY expensive and I understand why they didn't go that route. But if we get another storm, it may be the only remaining option.

How was the project funded? Based on what we saw on our last trip, the beaches seem to be faring well. Guess it was a LONG project? Hope the county re-thinks this option. Whadayathink?

How was the project funded? Based on what we saw on our last trip, the beaches seem to be faring well. Guess it was a LONG project? Hope the county re-thinks this option. Whadayathink?

I have no idea how they payed for it. I'm sure someone here does. My guess is they either implemented a tax increase or floated a bond issue.

MarineBiology451, or anyone else who knows,
What are some of known and potential effects of dredging the sand and pumping it onto the beach?

I can't imagine dredging not effecting the marine life - we are entering their environment - not just to visit as in swimming or surfing - but relocating it much like a hurricane or tornado.

I am so torn on this subject.

Regarding the taking of Gulf-front homes. I was using a twisted sense of humor. If you read earlier posts, you will see that we are all pissed about the ruling of the Court concerning eminent domain.

Thank you for clearing that up. I have started--and then self-deleted, due to too much temper--three responses to the original post you made wrt eminent domain. I'm glad to see it was not meant seriously (although I worry that some readers may have taken it as such and agreed).

This eminent domain issue is an even bigger problem, IMHO. I can live with the risk that I may lose my properties due to natural disasters. I can even accept (albeit unhappily) that they may be seized to make way for a highway, utility right-of-way, etc. But I cannot abide the thought that the government might decide to simply give them to someone else for their own private gain.

Thank you for clearing that up. I have started--and then self-deleted, due to too much temper--three responses to the original post you made wrt eminent domain. I'm glad to see it was not meant seriously (although I worry that some readers may have taken it as such and agreed).

This eminent domain issue is an even bigger problem, IMHO. I can live with the risk that I may lose my properties due to natural disasters. I can even accept (albeit unhappily) that they may be seized to make way for a highway, utility right-of-way, etc. But I cannot abide the thought that the government might decide to simply give them to someone else for their own private gain.

I think the majority of us who've been keeping up with the posts and come to know (and enjoy) Smilin Joe's sense of humor knew it was just a tongue-in-cheek comment 😀

If anything, I took it as a jab at the ridiculousness of the emminent domain takeovers that have been reported by the news media lately.

...This eminent domain issue is an even bigger problem, IMHO. I can live with the risk that I may lose my properties due to natural disasters. I can even accept (albeit unhappily) that they may be seized to make way for a highway, utility right-of-way, etc. But I cannot abide the thought that the government might decide to simply give them to someone else for their own private gain.

Watch out, you are in Walton County and Cindy Meadows has only one vote.

Watch out, you are in Walton County and Cindy Meadows has only one vote.

I know...believe me, I am worried.

I understand that Florida has somewhat stronger protections against eminent domain abuse than some states, but I don't think it's enough. Worse, there have been some attempts to weaken what protection there is. Unless something gets put in place to stop it now (while the Kelo v. New London ruling is still fresh), then I fully expect it to start happening in South Walton before the end of this decade. Those most at risk will be the older single-family dwellings on or near the beach (you listening, Grayton?).

Anyway, didn't mean to hijack the thread. Maybe we should start a new one (or re-start the old one) on this subject.

I know...believe me, I am worried.

I understand that Florida has somewhat stronger protections against eminent domain abuse than some states, but I don't think it's enough. Worse, there have been some attempts to weaken what protection there is. Unless something gets put in place to stop it now (while the Kelo v. New London ruling is still fresh), then I fully expect it to start happening in South Walton before the end of this decade. Those most at risk will be the older single-family dwellings on or near the beach (you listening, Grayton?).

Anyway, didn't mean to hijack the thread. Maybe we should start a new one (or re-start the old one) on this subject.

Who knows what will happen in the future. I believe it would take so much money to buy gulf front properties that we would have to stop making bombs. So you are safe.

Although, if I were a gulf front owner right now I might welcome a nice offer from the people instead of losing all through eminent domain by the next hurricane.

Who knows what will happen in the future. I believe it would take so much money to buy gulf front properties that we would have to stop making bombs. So you are safe.

Although, if I were a gulf front owner right now I might welcome a nice offer from the people instead of losing all through eminent domain by the next hurricane.

In theory, just as someone mentioned about Gal., TX, if we get hit hard by more forceful storms and much more erosion is caused, you may not own enough property onto which to build anything. As a Gulf-front owner, you own to the Mean High Tide level (correct me if I am wrong) which will vary over time. If that line moves to the roadside of your property, you don't own anything. If all of your buildable lot is washed out to see, the property value decreases to nothing and could be easy pickings for the Gov't to take for cheap. I doubt it will happen like this at any time in the near future, but it sure sounds potentially feasible in theory. The price that the Gov't has to pay is the fair market value at the time of the taking. If there is no buildable space, the fair market value would be very low.

I believe it would take so much money to buy gulf front properties that we would have to stop making bombs. So you are safe.

I wouldn't be so sure about that. I don't have full facts on this yet but I don't think the government has to pay the going market price. My understanding (which may be wrong) is that the government hires an appraisor who sets a price based upon his/her inspection of the property. If the owner rejects the price, it goes to court ordered mediation. If no settlement is still reached, it goes to a jury which determines the price.

Without going into all the possibilities, I can see a lot of peril for the (former) homeowner in the above process.