Help! Bulldozing on Bay Right Now

Interesting that the Stop Work Order was issued for only the lot the TrackHoe Operator was on when Code Enforcement showed up, even though the guy had already been on the other 6 lots, including lot 1, where he built up the beach sand with sand from the Bay.

Smiling Joe,

Obviously if a stop work order has been posted for the lack of permits, something is amiss. I agree with your posting on this after that fact.

Btw, I never said you slandered anyone. I was merely to the best of my recollection trying to explain to Rapunzel who was wondering if the owner ever responded. If he indeed responded and the word slander or something like that was not used I stand corrected.

As to your comment that the DEP guy would fight to minimize boat traffic rather than to save the wetlands, the environment and prevent silt damage, it just proves your one sided argument. As I don't know either of you, it may be true. But why is this environmentally sensitive neighborhood not concerned about it? I'm sure it has nothing to do with rising property values.

KevinC, thank you for clearing that up. There are many things I am willing to fight. The last things I will fight are the ones which are legal. The first ones I will fight are the things which are illegal. Enforce the laws on the books. The dredging permits are in place for the canals in Daughettes. They are not in place for this particular property, according to the Code Enforcement.

Smiling Joe,
Just curious, do you own property on these canals and how much if at all did you fight the dredging project before it was permitted and thus legal? Surely you realize it will do much more harm to the environment than what the backhoe did. Just because something is approved doesn't make it right, right?

Since slander is mentioned occasionally here I thought some of you might be interested in a quick read - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slander_and_libel

The fundamental distinction between libel and slander lies solely in the form in which the defamatory matter is published. If the offending material is published in some fleeting form, as by spoken words or sounds, sign language, gestures and the like, then this is slander. If it is published in more durable form, for example in written words, film, compact disc and the like, then it is considered libel.

For quite some time I thought I would never use most of the things I learned in school. Turns out I use every one of them. Even pie ain't square, pie are round

Kevin C will you please explain your statement about how the dredging will violate the environment? It would be helpful for those of us who are interested to have some idea of what is behind your statement.

Dredging is pretty common and is usually done in the approrpriate manner with the proper permits. What are your specific thoughts? Thanks.

Smiling Joe,
Just curious, do you own property on these canals and how much if at all did you fight the dredging project before it was permitted and thus legal? Surely you realize it will do much more harm to the environment than what the backhoe did. Just because something is approved doesn't make it right, right?

No, I don't own, nor never have owned, nor have a contract to own, canal front property in Daughettes. You are correct, just because something is legal doesn't make it right, but you won't see me pounding my head into the pavement to change it. There are plenty of laws on the books which are unjust in my opinion, but I try to obey them in respect for the public, which my personal beliefs may go against. I've learned what I can influence, and thus far, I have not found the Gov't to be one of those things.

Dredging is pretty common and is usually done in the approrpriate manner with the proper permits. What are your specific thoughts? Thanks.

Your comment reminds me of somthing else. When done with permits, there are plenty of people watching, including regular checks by Code Enforcement and in the case of dredging the canals, I am sure the DEP (dept of environmental protection). In the case of the guy who doesn't apply for the permit, Code Enforcement doesn't know to check on the project unless someone calls for investigation, and therefore the unpermitted person might not know that they what exactly they needed to do in order to comply. If the Building Dept let some people build at random, how would you know what standards to expect in your own home? No different here.

Kevin C will you please explain your statement about how the dredging will violate the environment? It would be helpful for those of us who are interested to have some idea of what is behind your statement.

Dredging is pretty common and is usually done in the approrpriate manner with the proper permits. What are your specific thoughts? Thanks.

Permits are not a guarantee that nothing will be harmed in performing a task such as dredging, but rather a permit is the community?s attempt to assure itself that the best techniques are used to perform the task, the task is defined, and the techniques are reviewed by knowledgeable people in order to minimize the impact to the community. Many of the things that we do on a daily basis leave a much bigger footprint than we are often aware?some of which are innocuous and some of which are not.

I contacted Commissioner Meadows today and asked if site work or any work other than a building needs to also have the permits posted and she replied that she believes they are required to be posted in the same way as a building permit. She is double checking and will have the Permitting person contact me with the details.

One can only hope that if permits have been issued, then the process of public hearings, proper methods, etc., have had a thorough airing and yes, some things still go wrong, and some things are still damaged, but at least if the permiting rules are followed there is a chance of the work being done properly.

Way to go Punzey and Skunky for making the call, and SJ for the pics!! And yet another occasion where the SoWal message board came in very handy.

I'm also thinking if there is not already a penalty for the worker who is doing the illegal work, there should be--the stop work order is issued to the property owner, but I find it hard to believe that any construction worker who has ever set foot in Walton County doesn't know that permits are required!

So, perhaps if there is a penalty for the person operating the equipment as well as the owner who hired him/her, then maybe more of the damage could be prevented.

It's obvious to me that the only way to make things work properly around here is to have citizens be proactive as our Sowallers were this week.

I'm also thinking if there is not already a penalty for the worker who is doing the illegal work, there should be--the stop work order is issued to the property owner, but I find it hard to believe that any construction worker who has ever set foot in Walton County doesn't know that permits are required!

So, perhaps if there is a penalty for the person operating the equipment as well as the owner who hired him/her, then maybe more of the damage could be prevented.

It's obvious to me that the only way to make things work properly around here is to have citizens be proactive as our Sowallers were this week.

I don't know. The guy operating the equipment looked all of 25 years old (tops) and was probably just earning a buck. He was probably just doing what he was told by somebody higher up on the food chain.

Thinking more about this Stop Work Order, it is issued to the owner of Lot 7, yet it the sign is posted in front of the work closer to lot 9, in front of one of the places where the track hoe operator made a trail down to the Bay so he could work in the water. The work being done was not on Lot 7 alone, but on every BayFront lot in the sub-division, each which is owned by different people.

So, SJoe, does anyone know what they are trying to do there on that property? And, do the other property owners know about the destruction?

I know that the operators are probably just following orders, but if they knew they could be held accountable too, they might ask to see the permits and/or be a bit more careful when crossing private property....

I can't believe that if someone operates heavy machinery in this county, they wouldn't make sure that the permits were in place first before they hauled their equipment to a job site. Or are they getting paid a bunch of cash to hurry in, do the work, and leave? I'm kinda thinking the bakhoe operator is just as guilty as the property owner.

So, SJoe, does anyone know what they are trying to do there on that property? And, do the other property owners know about the destruction?

I know that the operators are probably just following orders, but if they knew they could be held accountable too, they might ask to see the permits and/or be a bit more careful when crossing private property....

I agree with the operators, or the operators' company, needing to be held accountable for their actions. It is likely that a property owner thinks that the company they hire to do the work will take care of any permits needed. Who knows how that coversation went in this case.

"I hear that you will clean up some tires and trash from property. What do you charge for that?"

"Yes, we can take care of that for you. Where's the property?" ...


Goodwitch, from what I've seen at the property, I would guess that they are trying to clean up the shore line at the property. I don't think anyone has a problem with that, although there is a problem with the way they did it, and they are exposing the property to erosion which the tires and trees helped to prevent. At the eastern and western lots in the s/d, it looks like they tried to build up the beach from sand out of the Bay. Now we have a problem. (These lots defining northern border is the water's edge.) I am not a property owner in the sub-division and don't know if this was a collective decision by the Bay-front owners, or something that the developer was doing to clean up the water-front of the s/d.

thanks for keeping an eye open you guys.

i would put money on the developer. even though the lots are sold, they're still putting in infrastructure and amenities. this work could have be being done to make the bayfront lots more attractive for resale. although, they have a bunch of unsightly stuff hanging around on the interior that could use some sprucing up also.

Thanks for the info SJ. What a mess!

I find it very hard to believe that anyone would think it is okay to go into the Bay and remove sand....

on the other hand, who knows

I can't believe that if someone operates heavy machinery in this county, they wouldn't make sure that the permits were in place first before they hauled their equipment to a job site. Or are they getting paid a bunch of cash to hurry in, do the work, and leave? I'm kinda thinking the bakhoe operator is just as guilty as the property owner.

There are at least 9 property owners, but only one was sited as not having permits. I still don't understand that -- just gov't shining through, I guess.

BTW, the track hoe is a rental from United Rentals. They do not require an operator's license to rent a piece of heavy yellow equipment. Jdarg, if you called United and asked to rent a track hoe, they would deliver it and give you the keys. They might even give you a few tips on how to operate it if you ask. That operator in this case could have had zero hours experience or many. Who knows which.

(Boss Man) "You think you can run one of them buckets?"

(laborer) "yep"

I guess they think the property will be worth more if they plant Palm Trees and remove the large Oak Trees.




Looks like they had an afterthought. (this one looks very familiar, like the one which washed out into the Bay at the other violation on Quiet Water Ln, just a mile or so to the east. )





Surely, they don't think this old silt fence filled with holes will pass as meeting code, do they?

That silt fence was hilarious- when Will and I were driving out last night we saw that, and pulled back there to see if it was a silt fence. Then we saw the condition of it- hope they didn't pay too much money for it.:roll:

We were turning around at the end when we noticed the little stop work sign. I assumed it was posted there because it was at the "end of the line" on that group of properties, and maybe that is where the operator was working last. I guess you did a good look around and there were no moe signs- just the one?

Yep, just the one sign posted on about lot 9, with the stop work order issued for lot 7, owner. . That sign was placed in front of one of the two places where the track hoe was accessing the beach/Bay.

That yellow thing looks like a body bag for the oak tree.

Goodwitch#58,

You asked me to explain how the dredging will violate the environment. What do you think the impact will be? I believe many people on this thread are in a much better position to answer that, especially the ones who live in the area. Since the backhoe work performed resulted in strong emotions and concerns about the environment, I am sure they can share with you more scientific reasons than I for the impact of actually dredging 100's or maybe 1000's of feet of wetlands and bay bottom. I for one firmly believe that the impact will be immense when compared to what was recently done, no matter how many people are watching. From what someone said on an earlier thread there were gopher tortoise habitat in the area. If you live there I am sure you know the plants and animals etc. that will be impacted and have to be removed. I am in no way condoning what was done without permits, just stating my opinion.

I am also curious as to how some you, in addition to Smiling Joe, view the bay and canal dredging that apparently has begun.