This morning as my wife and I were returing form a shoreline walk we saw county officials asking a couple of men to move their "set up" from infront of The Retreat at Blue Mountain Beach. About an hour later my wife saw him being led from the beach in handcuffs for tresspassing. One of the men was taking pictures... maybe we'll see them post them here.
I know from reading previous posts that this is a hot button issue but it seems that some want to enforce the "letter of the law". I saw where they were placed and it was close to the water line very near the boundry of the Inn at Blue Mountain. They seemed to minding their own business. As the sherriff left I happened to walk by them and heard "I think it was the right call... where the wet sand meets the dry".
I'm confused, the beachgoers were were set up outside of the posted signs. If the owners really want to keep people out can they fence in their beach? (not that I'd want to see that)
In the many years of coming to SoWal I've always been impressed with the civility of residents and tourists -- although I have heard some horror stories. We abolutely love it here and treat it as though we already live here. But I was very surprised that it seems the owners are calling the country for what seems such a small infraction -- seems like a waste.
This was the second day in a row that I saw county officials inforcing the private beach rule.
Is the pendulum swinging?
Replies
962
Beach Fanatic
Duchess,
Yippie is right, your post got somewhat lost, in all of the "chatter" including mine. It was well written and factual, it appears. Your opinion is also respected by me.
Your situation is exactly what I've been more concerned here, more than just the obvious issue / idea of public vs. private beaches.
Your situation is also EXACTLY the reason why the county should not have approved Redfish Village's easement in a private residential neighborhood. This is what I professed could and would happen since last year.
That is, you bought in thinking that you had full rights to the beach via the access along side the Retreat. Now you are being removed from the beach because you are finding out that you don't.
You and I and the others on this board won't directly effect a change anytime soon. Who's responsible here? Opinions have been suggested.
Your input carries more credibility since you have invested in a home at the beach where you paid a "premium" to be near what you thought was a public beach as evidenced by the walkover in your area where the county just buries their head in the sand and hope this firestorm would never take place OR that beach renourishment will come to THEIR rescue, not the gulf front owners (as one would naturally assume).
It's obvious that you think the beaches should be public. I fully understand.
What will you do if nothing changes, ie the beach remains private?
Yippie is right, your post got somewhat lost, in all of the "chatter" including mine. It was well written and factual, it appears. Your opinion is also respected by me.
Your situation is exactly what I've been more concerned here, more than just the obvious issue / idea of public vs. private beaches.
Your situation is also EXACTLY the reason why the county should not have approved Redfish Village's easement in a private residential neighborhood. This is what I professed could and would happen since last year.
That is, you bought in thinking that you had full rights to the beach via the access along side the Retreat. Now you are being removed from the beach because you are finding out that you don't.
You and I and the others on this board won't directly effect a change anytime soon. Who's responsible here? Opinions have been suggested.
Your input carries more credibility since you have invested in a home at the beach where you paid a "premium" to be near what you thought was a public beach as evidenced by the walkover in your area where the county just buries their head in the sand and hope this firestorm would never take place OR that beach renourishment will come to THEIR rescue, not the gulf front owners (as one would naturally assume).
It's obvious that you think the beaches should be public. I fully understand.
What will you do if nothing changes, ie the beach remains private?
Edited
Beach Fanatic
Duchess,
Yippie is right, your post got somewhat lost, in all of the "chatter" including mine. It was well written and factual, it appears. Your opinion is also respected by me.
Your situation is exactly what I've been more concerned here, more than just the obvious issue / idea of public vs. private beaches.
Your situation is also EXACTLY the reason why the county should not have approved Redfish Village's easement in a private residential neighborhood. This is what I professed could and would happen since last year.
That is, you bought in thinking that you had full rights to the beach via the access along side the Retreat. Now you are being removed from the beach because you are finding out that you don't.
You and I and the others on this board won't directly effect a change anytime soon. Who's responsible here? Opinions have been suggested.
Your input carries more credibility since you have invested in a home at the beach where you paid a "premium" to be near what you thought was a public beach as evidenced by the walkover in your area where the county just buries their head in the sand and hope this firestorm would never take place OR that beach renourishment will come to THEIR rescue, not the gulf front owners (as one would naturally assume).
It's obvious that you that you think the beaches should be public. I fully understand.
What will you do if nothing changes, ie the beach remains private?
These are good questions and ones I would be asking myself if I were you. What will you do once it is proven their is no such thing as a private beach?
Beach Fanatic
....Bobby, he's KILLING me!!!!
Keep arresting and we'll keep tellin
Keep harassing and we'll keep yellin
Banned
Thanks Bobby.
Like I've said, I'm no expert and if 10 lawyers get hold of this, you will have 10 opinions
If you're a concerned owner needing advice, contact your lawyer
My opinion doesn't matter
If someone takes the issue to a higher court, they will make a ruling on Prescriptive Easements. Not you or I
Until then, its a gray area where everyone should tread carefully, but even better we should all respect each other and keep beaches an enjoyable place. That is the responsibility of local government.
Like I've said, I'm no expert and if 10 lawyers get hold of this, you will have 10 opinions
If you're a concerned owner needing advice, contact your lawyer
My opinion doesn't matter
If someone takes the issue to a higher court, they will make a ruling on Prescriptive Easements. Not you or I
Until then, its a gray area where everyone should tread carefully, but even better we should all respect each other and keep beaches an enjoyable place. That is the responsibility of local government.
Banned
Bobby, he's KILLING me!!!!
FROM AGO 2002 - SEE ON WWW.PUBLICSHORE.COM
"This office rejected the proposal to authorize local law enforcement officers to be designated as the agents of private persons."
"...the Florida Constitution prohibits the use of public funds for a private purpose.[21] The pre-authorization of on-duty law enforcement officers to act as agents of private landowners in warning individuals to leave private property appeared to this office to serve primarily a private, not public, purpose."
I'M STILL WAITING VAGRANT.....are police breaking the law by assisting these owners in the arrest on 'their land'?
You tell me, won't ya
You're the ex-cop from up north, right?
Beach Fanatic
FROM AGO 2002 - SEE ON WWW.PUBLICSHORE.COM
"This office rejected the proposal to authorize local law enforcement officers to be designated as the agents of private persons."
This is the THIRD time I'll say this for the benefit of GG who probably has not read the previous posts and for the benefit of Bobby J who refuses to understand what "acting as an owner's agent" means.
If a sheriff goes around looking for trespassers, then the sheriff is acting an owner's agent.
If the sheriff is called by the owner to enforce the law, i.e. trespassing, then the sheriff is simply doing that.
Bobby, you're a local. To continually imply that the deputies are acting as "owner's agents" is simply disrespectful.
Think about it before you reply.
Edited
Beach Fanatic
These are good questions and ones I would be asking myself if I were you. What will you do once it is proven their is no such thing as a private beach?Yes they are good questions, thank you.
If the court determines that there are no longer private beaches, then I will simply abide by the law.
Banned
Bobby, you're a local. To continually imply that the deputies are acting as "owner's agents" is simply disrespectful.
Think about it before you reply.
Vagrant - You are the ex-cop? Say you're not. Vagrant got a name?
Why should I debate this with you when you willnever ever say anything objective about law enforcement?
Please don't waist my time and please don't assume anything
Nuf said. If there is anyone else other than VAGRANT wanting me to respond, I will do my best. VAGRANT, all the best pal, but I see right through ya
Beach Fanatic
...Until then, its a gray area where everyone should tread carefully, but even better we should all respect each other and keep beaches an enjoyable place. That is the responsibility of local government.Something I can basically agree with.
SoWal Expert
Quick question - if the legality of the sheriff removing "trespassers" from "private" beaches is questionable because they are not supposed to be "owner's agents", how is it okay for them to be in uniform and in marked squad cars when they are off duty and being paid as private security?
Beach Fanatic
Vagrant - You are the ex-cop? Say you're not. Vagrant got a name?GG,
Why should I debate this with you when you willnever ever say anything objective about law enforcement?
Please don't waist my time and please don't assume anything
Nuf said. If there is anyone else other than VAGRANT wanting me to respond, I will do my best. VAGRANT, all the best pal, but I see right through ya
I put it out there as simply and succinctly as I possibly could regarding deputies acting as owner's agents. Why are you so hostile to facts? Please, I beg you, to show me the error in my explanation regarding "owner's agents". You (and Bobby) bring it up over and over and still I can not see the error of my post nor any explanation from you that would help me.
I know there are others out there who understand this simple concept.
So if you continue to insist that deputies are acting as owner's agents, then you should report this to the county attorney, county commission and the Florida Attorney General because it is ILLEGAL for the sheriff to act as an owner's agent....
Edited....per Scooterbug's valid post: .....while ON DUTY (not being compensated for off-duty services such as traffic control, funerals, etc.).
Edited
Beach Fanatic
Re: The video sucks, don't watch it dude
Kablaammmm!!!!
(The sound of me hitting the floor when I passed out in utter disbelief)
I agree with BMBV on this one. Question, why did you find the need to disguise your voice?????
Kablaammmm!!!!
(The sound of me hitting the floor when I passed out in utter disbelief)
Banned
Scooter - The way your police handle themselves is a reflection of the Sheriff and the community
There are obviously practices that are tolerated that could be considered questionable, but what is the big picture?
There are many locations nationally and internationally that conflicts arise. Your area is not special
We, the population other that yourselves (the local population), will choose whether we want to support your community or not. With dollars both private and government.
Less funds = higher taxes = ouch
The power of news and information over the internet shouln't be underestimated and should be utilized to the fullest - Its a wonderful thing
There are obviously practices that are tolerated that could be considered questionable, but what is the big picture?
There are many locations nationally and internationally that conflicts arise. Your area is not special
We, the population other that yourselves (the local population), will choose whether we want to support your community or not. With dollars both private and government.
Less funds = higher taxes = ouch
The power of news and information over the internet shouln't be underestimated and should be utilized to the fullest - Its a wonderful thing
Beach Fanatic
I meant as the upland owner, refering to the owners along the coastline, not beyond the coastlineGraham - where did you get that quote from me. I never said that second line about givng a damn about the Panhandle. Why did you put that in there? That's a misquote.
SoWal Expert
If it's the latter, could not the same "logic" be applied to people on the beach? If there are no signs on the beach, then the public assumes the beach is public and uses it in that manner.
BUT
Since there are deeds recorded at the county that state particular gulf front lots own to the MHW line and everyone is now an expert on "trespassing", shouldn't the public have been aware that IF and WHEN they walked on private property, that they were trespassing? Was this the "right" thing to do?
I don't want to keep posting the same information over and over again. I've already posted (maybe on one of the other threads if not this one) information from FloridaBar.org, stating that the sandy beach property, even if privately owned, is different regarding property rights, from the upland portion of the property. So, the answer to your questions are:
no,
no,
the last question is vague since "this," is an unidentified subject. Was it right for the property owner, the security guard, Sheriff's Deputy, or people who want to lie on the beach? Too many choices.
Beach Fanatic
Re: The video sucks, don't watch it dude
LOL! I thought you were trying to imitate Emeril!! LOL
Kablaammmm!!!!
(The sound of me hitting the floor when I passed out in utter disbelief)
LOL! I thought you were trying to imitate Emeril!! LOLBanned
Okay Yippie, that makes you #2 my "no response list"
No wonder you have these issues up there. Your medication wears off around midday and the drug store is closed until after siesta
ROALMNAO
No wonder you have these issues up there. Your medication wears off around midday and the drug store is closed until after siesta
ROALMNAO
SoWal Expert
The Retreat should have to pay for all their frivilous phone calls.
Interesting thought. The County Commissioners were recently working on a lighting ordinance for WalCo. They said that if a person called in a complaint of a possible lighting ordinance violation and the Code Enforement guys investigated the complaint and found the property not to be in violation, the next call for the same complaint, would be charged to the person making the complaint, and I'm sure that after hours visits from the Code Enforcement could be expensive.
SoWal Expert
Scooter - The way your police handle themselves is a reflection of the Sheriff and the communityThe big picture is that I am a local on a local message board asking questions pertinent to local events, local law enforcement policies, local rules and regulations etc.
There are obviously practices that are tolerated that could be considered questionable, but what is the big picture?
There are many locations nationally and internationally that conflicts arise. Your area is not special
We, the population other that yourselves (the local population), will choose whether we want to support your community or not. With dollars both private and government.
Less funds = higher taxes = ouch
The power of news and information over the internet shouln't be underestimated and should be utilized to the fullest - Its a wonderful thing
While the issues will ultimately be decided at a higher level and a more removed location, I am more concerned with the here and now, and its impact on this highly specialized & unique community.
Banned
I am more concerned with the here and now, and its impact on this highly specialized & unique community.
Well thank you for your time SCOOTERBUG and I wish you all the best
Beach Fanatic
Okay Yippie, that makes you #2 my "no response list"
No wonder you have these issues up there. Your medication wears off around midday and the drug store is closed until after siesta
ROALMNAO
How rude. The quote you added to was my quote #564. It says nothing about not giving a damn about the Panhandle.
So you are a realtor from Naples. Are you experiencing these same problems? Oh, I forgot, I have to go take my medication...
Banned
Yes, I am a lot of things, but mostly very concerned about beach access and the use of beaches by the public.
I gave my name on this blog for no particular reason, I have nothing to hide. Google away, its for all to see.
These blogs serve a useful purpose. We have our own here with similar participation and similar comments. We all have fun and blow off steam and it seldom gets outa control.
I have other issues locally, as you can immagine, Naples is a coastal area with some grumpy issues, that we try to deal with without bloodshed. We hope you manage to fix your problems there and my website will remain a source of information in the future
It's been a blast. I wish all of this Panhandle area the best and to trust in the law.
Goodbye and farewell
I gave my name on this blog for no particular reason, I have nothing to hide. Google away, its for all to see.
These blogs serve a useful purpose. We have our own here with similar participation and similar comments. We all have fun and blow off steam and it seldom gets outa control.
I have other issues locally, as you can immagine, Naples is a coastal area with some grumpy issues, that we try to deal with without bloodshed. We hope you manage to fix your problems there and my website will remain a source of information in the future
It's been a blast. I wish all of this Panhandle area the best and to trust in the law.
Goodbye and farewell
SoWal Expert
I've been reading a bit of Florida Law and am slightly confused with a couple of definitions. I don't need the definitions repeated, as I am able to read. I just need them explained. What is the difference in Civil Trespass and Criminal Trespass? 
Beach Fanatic
I've been reading a bit of Florida Law and am slightly confused with a couple of definitions. I don't need the definitions repeated, as I am able to read. I just need them explained. What is the difference in Civil Trespass and Criminal Trespass?
See if this helps. It is the State Statutes regarding Burglary & Trespass
http://leg.state.fl.us/statutes/index.cfm?App_mode=Display_Statute&URL=Ch0810/ch0810.htm
SoWal Expert
Interesting thought. The County Commissioners were recently working on a lighting ordinance for WalCo. They said that if a person called in a complaint of a possible lighting ordinance violation and the Code Enforement guys investigated the complaint and found the property not to be in violation, the next call for the same complaint, would be charged to the person making the complaint, and I'm sure that after hours visits from the Code Enforcement could be expensive.
I know some Sheriff's departments have instituted a "cry wolf" fine, due to repeated false alarms from security systems in unoccupied homes. I think you get 1 or 2 "false" alarms, then have to pay. No charge for any justified call.
Unless Code Enforcement had an up to date file and could tell person calling "property 4253 was inspected on x/x/200x for this potential violation and found to be in compliance, an additional inspection will cost you $x if they are in compliance, would be hard to enforce.
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