This morning as my wife and I were returing form a shoreline walk we saw county officials asking a couple of men to move their "set up" from infront of The Retreat at Blue Mountain Beach. About an hour later my wife saw him being led from the beach in handcuffs for tresspassing. One of the men was taking pictures... maybe we'll see them post them here.
I know from reading previous posts that this is a hot button issue but it seems that some want to enforce the "letter of the law". I saw where they were placed and it was close to the water line very near the boundry of the Inn at Blue Mountain. They seemed to minding their own business. As the sherriff left I happened to walk by them and heard "I think it was the right call... where the wet sand meets the dry".
I'm confused, the beachgoers were were set up outside of the posted signs. If the owners really want to keep people out can they fence in their beach? (not that I'd want to see that)
In the many years of coming to SoWal I've always been impressed with the civility of residents and tourists -- although I have heard some horror stories. We abolutely love it here and treat it as though we already live here. But I was very surprised that it seems the owners are calling the country for what seems such a small infraction -- seems like a waste.
This was the second day in a row that I saw county officials inforcing the private beach rule.
Is the pendulum swinging?
Replies
962
Beach Fanatic
Someone mentioned that in the Plat for the Inn at Blue Mountain Beach, it calls for five public parking spaces.
That was me, but it isn't the plat, it is a court case. See post # 448.
Banned
Most beaches not accessible to wheelchairs - Kathryn Simmons - NBC2 NEWS - Posted on: Wednesday, March 02, 2005
COLLIER COUNTY? Every day people in wheelchairs face challenges
getting into businesses and government buildings, even though there is a
federal civil rights act to protect the disabled.
"It's very frustrating," said Scott Straub.
For Scott Straub, every day can be frustrating.
"Every day, something different, it has been a challenge," said Straub.
The beach is supposed to be a place to relax, but to Straub, who is paralyzed from the chest down, it is a stressful obstacle course.
Getting to the water was Straub's ultimate goal, but it didn't take long for his independent journey to end.
Equal access is what we're looking for, for everyone, said Straub.
The Americans with Disabilities Act, or ADA, is the federal law designed to protect the disabled and provide that access.
Representative Connie Mack IV, said don't bet on it.
At Bowditch Regional Park on Fort Myers Beach they have what's called a mobi-mat. It runs closer to the water, and for Straub, it is a pathway towards freedom.
The wheelchair beach rally will be Saturday, March 5th at 9:00 am on Vanderbilt Beach in Collier
County. The rally is not a protest, but a way to raise awareness.
http://www.mobi-mat-civil-access-de...eleases/CollierCounty,FL-NBC2News-March05.pdf
COLLIER COUNTY? Every day people in wheelchairs face challenges
getting into businesses and government buildings, even though there is a
federal civil rights act to protect the disabled.
"It's very frustrating," said Scott Straub.
For Scott Straub, every day can be frustrating.
"Every day, something different, it has been a challenge," said Straub.
The beach is supposed to be a place to relax, but to Straub, who is paralyzed from the chest down, it is a stressful obstacle course.
Getting to the water was Straub's ultimate goal, but it didn't take long for his independent journey to end.
Equal access is what we're looking for, for everyone, said Straub.
The Americans with Disabilities Act, or ADA, is the federal law designed to protect the disabled and provide that access.
Representative Connie Mack IV, said don't bet on it.
At Bowditch Regional Park on Fort Myers Beach they have what's called a mobi-mat. It runs closer to the water, and for Straub, it is a pathway towards freedom.
The wheelchair beach rally will be Saturday, March 5th at 9:00 am on Vanderbilt Beach in Collier
County. The rally is not a protest, but a way to raise awareness.
http://www.mobi-mat-civil-access-de...eleases/CollierCounty,FL-NBC2News-March05.pdf
Beach Lover
Graham,
We have an active ADA Committee appointed by our Board of Commissioners to review public facilities and make recommendations for better access. They've done a pretty good job of creating awareness and doing what we can to improve access in our courthouses, county buildings, ... and beach accesses ...with our TDC and facilities management folks. Our regional accesses (those with the parking, showers, and restrooms) all have ADA ramps down to the beach. We're going to be placing a marker at one of the accesses soon in memory of one of the committee members who recently passed away.
We have an active ADA Committee appointed by our Board of Commissioners to review public facilities and make recommendations for better access. They've done a pretty good job of creating awareness and doing what we can to improve access in our courthouses, county buildings, ... and beach accesses ...with our TDC and facilities management folks. Our regional accesses (those with the parking, showers, and restrooms) all have ADA ramps down to the beach. We're going to be placing a marker at one of the accesses soon in memory of one of the committee members who recently passed away.
SoWal Expert
I just finished reading the legal description on the plat for The Retreat. I notice that it often uses the term, "approximate," when describing the southern boundary of the property and Mean High Water Mark. My question is how can The Retreat remove people from property, if they don't even indicate it precisely in the legal description. You can bet I will take the plat with me every day I go to the beach in front of The Retreat. I'll gladly show the Sheriff's Deputy that the property boundary is not precise enough for The Retreat to have me removed.
Edited
Banned
'We have an active ADA Committee appointed by our Board of Commissioners to review public facilities'
I am sorry to hear about your friend. Life is very hard for those in chairs and being an activist takes a ton of energy.
If you read the article I posted it was about the access for chairs ending at the soft sand.
It's almost impossible to ride/push/shove a chair and the rider to the hard sand - We tried with much effort
The mobi-matt is expensive but is used as a moveable, permiable hard surface.
Also the big tire chairs should be located at major ramps so individuals can use them and either be pushed into the water or some have a self propultion system.
Every county should have a master plan to comply with ADA standards. Its been years since this became law. There is no excuse and those in chairs need YOUR help as they are a growing minority.
With increasing war veterans and aging baby boomers, the numbers of those needing mobility assistance is increasing and ADA issues are much more prevalent.
I am sorry to hear about your friend. Life is very hard for those in chairs and being an activist takes a ton of energy.
If you read the article I posted it was about the access for chairs ending at the soft sand.
It's almost impossible to ride/push/shove a chair and the rider to the hard sand - We tried with much effort
The mobi-matt is expensive but is used as a moveable, permiable hard surface.
Also the big tire chairs should be located at major ramps so individuals can use them and either be pushed into the water or some have a self propultion system.
Every county should have a master plan to comply with ADA standards. Its been years since this became law. There is no excuse and those in chairs need YOUR help as they are a growing minority.
With increasing war veterans and aging baby boomers, the numbers of those needing mobility assistance is increasing and ADA issues are much more prevalent.
Beach Fanatic
I just finished reading the legal description on the plat for The Retreat. I notice that it often uses the term, "approximate," when describing the southern boundary of the property and Mean High Water Mark. My question is how can The Retreat remove people from property, if they don't even indicate it precisely in the legal description. You can bet I will take the plat with me every day I go to the beach in front of The Retreat. I'll gladly show the Sheriff's Deputy that the property boundary is not precise enough for The Retreat to have me removed.SJ, if you would let me know the next time you are going to sit at the Retreat, I would like to join you if possible and you don't mind.
I had and interesting discussion with a tourist yesterday about 1330 from Chattanooga yesterday on the beach below the Retreat. She and her husband had been challenged two days earlier and their daughters day before yesterday. Nobody challenged us yesterday and the signs near the Inn at Blue Mt. appeared to be gone. I spent about an hour and l5 minute sitting and lying on the "dry sand". Maybe all the negative publicity is beginning to have an affect.
SoWal Expert
Andy,
I must have just missed you, yesterday. The no trespassing signs are still posted on the beach at the Inn at BMB. My trips to the beach are more spontaneous than planned events, but maybe I'll see you there.
I must have just missed you, yesterday. The no trespassing signs are still posted on the beach at the Inn at BMB. My trips to the beach are more spontaneous than planned events, but maybe I'll see you there.
Beach Fanatic
Original "posture":
Latest "posture":
I like the "new" Dave a whole lot better.
I have always firmly believed the beaches are for all of us to enjoy. The edge of the bluff or the edge of the dunes should be the property line for beach front homeowners. Even this "mean high tide waterline" rule is ridiculous.
When you pay for beach front you are paying for the view and the risk of being washed away in a hurricane, you're not paying for the beach behind you. Trying to own the beach is like trying to own the sky.
I would proudly be arrested for walking on the beach anywhere on the "Beaches of South Walton." Get it? The Beaches of South Walton. Do we need to change the name of the place?
Dave, "come and get me" Rauschkolb.
Latest "posture":
I recommend any protest be organized, respectful, and in the mean high tide water line. Being anything but honorable will just look bad. Stay within the law make your points heard and enjoy the beach with a smile.
I like the "new" Dave a whole lot better.
Beach Fanatic
I will agree that GG is entitled to say what he wants. It's no secret I think GG is off base in more ways than one. All underlined text are hyperlinks.
[ame="http://www.sowal.com/bb/showthread.php?p=265247#post265247"]Starts off his posts with a link to a "video" he made.[/ame]
A couple of people criticised the video for the content (or lack of).
[ame="http://www.sowal.com/bb/showpost.php?p=265359&postcount=567"]Then GG goes on some rediculous diatribe that[/ame]
"A desert has no water, no wet sand area, no problem there, it could be private.
What is a desert area with water? A beach.
Who is part owner of the wet area? The public.
Therefore
Wet + Dry cannot be ENTIRELY PRIVATE"
[ame="http://www.sowal.com/bb/showpost.php?p=265374&postcount=573"]And adds a "wise proverb[/ame]"
"Keep arresting and we'll keep tellin
Keep harassing and we'll keep yellin"
[ame="http://www.sowal.com/bb/showpost.php?p=265385&postcount=576"]GG even pulled the wool over Bobby's eyes.[/ame]
"I am sure of one thing BMBV. Graham is more versed in this then you and I."
[ame="http://www.sowal.com/bb/showpost.php?p=265409&postcount=581"]GG talks of deputies acting as owners agents[/ame]
and states, "I'M STILL WAITING VAGRANT.....are police breaking the law by assisting these owners in the arrest on 'their land'?"
[ame="http://www.sowal.com/bb/showpost.php?p=265413&postcount=582"]I respond a "3rd time" regarding what an "owner's agent" is.[/ame]
No acknowledgement whatsoever from GG.
[ame="http://www.sowal.com/bb/showpost.php?p=265428&postcount=587"]GG then accuses me of being an ex-cop.[/ame]
[ame="http://www.sowal.com/bb/showpost.php?p=265445&postcount=593"]GG states Yippie is "#2 on his no response list and that Yippie's medication is wearing off.[/ame]
[ame="http://www.sowal.com/bb/showpost.php?p=265455&postcount=598"]GG bids "Goodbye and farewell".[/ame]
GG is back after only a one day's absence!
[ame="http://www.sowal.com/bb/showpost.php?p=266156&postcount=696"]Amazing quotes from GG:[/ame]
"As always find a lawyer for these difficult land issues for help"
[ame="http://www.sowal.com/bb/showpost.php?p=266316&postcount=721"]Another:[/ame]
"Gov Christ is not likely to look favourably on the privitization of Florida's beaches."
The word "privitization" implies that the beach was not private to begin with.
[ame="http://www.sowal.com/bb/showpost.php?p=266659&postcount=733"]GG wants to "humiliate" the security gaurd at the Retreat and asks SJ to post a video on Youtube.[/ame]
[ame="http://www.sowal.com/bb/showpost.php?p=266895&postcount=745"]GG's comparisons become desperate:[/ame]
"So, when you say "I own the beach" it's like someone saying their private driveway that connects to the freeway "I own the freeway", when they don't. They just own a very small area of land that happens to connect to the freeway."
The rest of the post is similar, first amendment analogies and all.
[ame="http://www.sowal.com/bb/showpost.php?p=266920&postcount=748"]GG shamelessly enlists the support of ADA advocates in this totally unrelated matter:[/ame]
"A couple of years ago we had a rally at one of our beaches to protest the inadequate facilities at beaches for disabled persons.
Boy, if anything gets the attention of local government, its the ADA coming down on them."
[ame="http://www.sowal.com/bb/showpost.php?p=266924&postcount=749"]And continues to drift on ADA matters here.[/ame]
[ame="http://www.sowal.com/bb/showpost.php?p=266974&postcount=753"]And here quoting a 2 year old article about a wheelchair rally.[/ame]
[ame="http://www.sowal.com/bb/showpost.php?p=267285&postcount=756"]And here talking getting wheelchairs across the sand.[/ame]
PLEASE understand, I have no problem with the ADA...just the idea that GG thinks its appropriate to mix ADA subjects with the main subject of this thread (they are entirely separate).
But do you know what bugs me the most?
The idea of the Walton Sun giving this guy any credence:
From this article on 7-13-07 (click here):
"The AGO, indicates that the upland owner may enforce trespassing laws, but cannot expect to use law enforcement to assist them with the enforcement of these laws on their property, for fear of violating the Florida Constitution. The upland owner can only use law enforcement for filing complaints."
Oh yea, he repeated the same "stuff" again in his final statement in the Walton Sun in a second article (click here) on the same day:
"Did local law enforcement act as agents of the private landowner against Mr. Gonzalez and hence violate the Florida Constitution?"
As I explained three times in the past, the sheriff did not act as an owner's agent, plain and simple, no doubt, not even close, period.
Yet GG refuses to acknowledge this SIMPLE observation and instead tries to cast an unfavorable light on the sheriff's department as I have repeatedly indicated the past.
GG is basically stating the sheriff broke the law, not the trespasser.
If the people of Walton County truly want to see any change, I would suggest aligning with those of more character and consistency.
[ame="http://www.sowal.com/bb/showthread.php?p=265247#post265247"]Starts off his posts with a link to a "video" he made.[/ame]
A couple of people criticised the video for the content (or lack of).
[ame="http://www.sowal.com/bb/showpost.php?p=265359&postcount=567"]Then GG goes on some rediculous diatribe that[/ame]
"A desert has no water, no wet sand area, no problem there, it could be private.
What is a desert area with water? A beach.
Who is part owner of the wet area? The public.
Therefore
Wet + Dry cannot be ENTIRELY PRIVATE"
[ame="http://www.sowal.com/bb/showpost.php?p=265374&postcount=573"]And adds a "wise proverb[/ame]"
"Keep arresting and we'll keep tellin
Keep harassing and we'll keep yellin"
[ame="http://www.sowal.com/bb/showpost.php?p=265385&postcount=576"]GG even pulled the wool over Bobby's eyes.[/ame]
"I am sure of one thing BMBV. Graham is more versed in this then you and I."
[ame="http://www.sowal.com/bb/showpost.php?p=265409&postcount=581"]GG talks of deputies acting as owners agents[/ame]
and states, "I'M STILL WAITING VAGRANT.....are police breaking the law by assisting these owners in the arrest on 'their land'?"
[ame="http://www.sowal.com/bb/showpost.php?p=265413&postcount=582"]I respond a "3rd time" regarding what an "owner's agent" is.[/ame]
No acknowledgement whatsoever from GG.
[ame="http://www.sowal.com/bb/showpost.php?p=265428&postcount=587"]GG then accuses me of being an ex-cop.[/ame]
[ame="http://www.sowal.com/bb/showpost.php?p=265445&postcount=593"]GG states Yippie is "#2 on his no response list and that Yippie's medication is wearing off.[/ame]
[ame="http://www.sowal.com/bb/showpost.php?p=265455&postcount=598"]GG bids "Goodbye and farewell".[/ame]
GG is back after only a one day's absence!
[ame="http://www.sowal.com/bb/showpost.php?p=266156&postcount=696"]Amazing quotes from GG:[/ame]
"As always find a lawyer for these difficult land issues for help"
[ame="http://www.sowal.com/bb/showpost.php?p=266316&postcount=721"]Another:[/ame]
"Gov Christ is not likely to look favourably on the privitization of Florida's beaches."
The word "privitization" implies that the beach was not private to begin with.
[ame="http://www.sowal.com/bb/showpost.php?p=266659&postcount=733"]GG wants to "humiliate" the security gaurd at the Retreat and asks SJ to post a video on Youtube.[/ame]
[ame="http://www.sowal.com/bb/showpost.php?p=266895&postcount=745"]GG's comparisons become desperate:[/ame]
"So, when you say "I own the beach" it's like someone saying their private driveway that connects to the freeway "I own the freeway", when they don't. They just own a very small area of land that happens to connect to the freeway."
The rest of the post is similar, first amendment analogies and all.
[ame="http://www.sowal.com/bb/showpost.php?p=266920&postcount=748"]GG shamelessly enlists the support of ADA advocates in this totally unrelated matter:[/ame]
"A couple of years ago we had a rally at one of our beaches to protest the inadequate facilities at beaches for disabled persons.
Boy, if anything gets the attention of local government, its the ADA coming down on them."
[ame="http://www.sowal.com/bb/showpost.php?p=266924&postcount=749"]And continues to drift on ADA matters here.[/ame]
[ame="http://www.sowal.com/bb/showpost.php?p=266974&postcount=753"]And here quoting a 2 year old article about a wheelchair rally.[/ame]
[ame="http://www.sowal.com/bb/showpost.php?p=267285&postcount=756"]And here talking getting wheelchairs across the sand.[/ame]
PLEASE understand, I have no problem with the ADA...just the idea that GG thinks its appropriate to mix ADA subjects with the main subject of this thread (they are entirely separate).
But do you know what bugs me the most?
The idea of the Walton Sun giving this guy any credence:
From this article on 7-13-07 (click here):
"The AGO, indicates that the upland owner may enforce trespassing laws, but cannot expect to use law enforcement to assist them with the enforcement of these laws on their property, for fear of violating the Florida Constitution. The upland owner can only use law enforcement for filing complaints."
Oh yea, he repeated the same "stuff" again in his final statement in the Walton Sun in a second article (click here) on the same day:
"Did local law enforcement act as agents of the private landowner against Mr. Gonzalez and hence violate the Florida Constitution?"
As I explained three times in the past, the sheriff did not act as an owner's agent, plain and simple, no doubt, not even close, period.
Yet GG refuses to acknowledge this SIMPLE observation and instead tries to cast an unfavorable light on the sheriff's department as I have repeatedly indicated the past.
GG is basically stating the sheriff broke the law, not the trespasser.
If the people of Walton County truly want to see any change, I would suggest aligning with those of more character and consistency.
Banned
Looks like the pressure is getting to you or is it the truth that hurts?
Character assasination online isn't new. You didn't invent it.
YOU ARE the problem, not the media, not me and not the majority of your population
Your elected commissioners are bowing at your feet to keep you happy and pulling along the sheriff for the ride, their big gun.
Last time I checked, WaltonHam and the Sheriff of WaltonHam are still part of America.
Only the people in your area will make a change
I hope they choose to and weather the insults and abuses from people like you
Don't worry folks, America won't abandon you, this doesn't have to hurt it just confuses the brain somewhat, not coming close to a visit at the dentist :rofl: MNAO in Naples
Character assasination online isn't new. You didn't invent it.
YOU ARE the problem, not the media, not me and not the majority of your population
Your elected commissioners are bowing at your feet to keep you happy and pulling along the sheriff for the ride, their big gun.
Last time I checked, WaltonHam and the Sheriff of WaltonHam are still part of America.
Only the people in your area will make a change
I hope they choose to and weather the insults and abuses from people like you
Don't worry folks, America won't abandon you, this doesn't have to hurt it just confuses the brain somewhat, not coming close to a visit at the dentist :rofl: MNAO in Naples
Banned
'PLEASE understand, I have no problem with the ADA...just the idea that GG thinks its appropriate to mix ADA subjects with the main subject of this thread (they are entirely separate).'
I guess none of your friends, some of them war vets would EVER want to go to the beach?
Why would someone who cannot use their legs ever want to get wet, in the salt water, in the Gulf with the sharks and sting rays and get bit by sand fleas and and and and....?
You can't have too many friends to be so narrow minded
I guess none of your friends, some of them war vets would EVER want to go to the beach?
Why would someone who cannot use their legs ever want to get wet, in the salt water, in the Gulf with the sharks and sting rays and get bit by sand fleas and and and and....?
You can't have too many friends to be so narrow minded
Banned
'If a sheriff goes around looking for trespassers, then the sheriff is acting an owner's agent.
If the sheriff is called by the owner to enforce the law, i.e. trespassing, then the sheriff is simply doing that.'
Hello, hello Mr. Vagrant - I've read your post several times, not because I disagree with you, not because I think you're the next best thing since sliced bread, but for one reason and one reason only...
Because I have no idea what you're TRYING to say.
Now I know you're trying to say something, so why not brush up on the english, quit the cut & pasting and say what every the hell you want.
Just make it clear so we can understand. Just spit it out man, you can do it.
Now is that too much to ask?
Jeeeesh
If the sheriff is called by the owner to enforce the law, i.e. trespassing, then the sheriff is simply doing that.'
Hello, hello Mr. Vagrant - I've read your post several times, not because I disagree with you, not because I think you're the next best thing since sliced bread, but for one reason and one reason only...
Because I have no idea what you're TRYING to say.
Now I know you're trying to say something, so why not brush up on the english, quit the cut & pasting and say what every the hell you want.
Just make it clear so we can understand. Just spit it out man, you can do it.
Now is that too much to ask?
Jeeeesh
Beach Fanatic
....I have no idea what you're TRYING to say.Apparently.
SoWal Expert
'If a sheriff goes around looking for trespassers, then the sheriff is acting an owner's agent.
If the sheriff is called by the owner to enforce the law, i.e. trespassing, then the sheriff is simply doing that.'
Hello, hello Mr. Vagrant - I've read your post several times, not because I disagree with you, not because I think you're the next best thing since sliced bread, but for one reason and one reason only...
Because I have no idea what you're TRYING to say.
Now I know you're trying to say something, so why not brush up on the english, quit the cut & pasting and say what every the hell you want.
Just make it clear so we can understand. Just spit it out man, you can do it.
Now is that too much to ask?
Jeeeesh
I know it can be difficult to understand what someone else is saying when both sides are heated and focused on our own opinions. I have read the laws and penalties associated with both types of trespassing in the State of Florida. I think the laws are vaguely written in some respects, but I didn't have any question with the particular part about the role of an agent. With this particular instance of the Deputy coming out on a call by an agent (security guard in this case) for the property, I agree with BMBV that the law does not recognize the Sheriff's Deputy as an Agent for the property owner. If the Sheriff was not called to the scene, but decided to monitor the area for trespass, own his or her own, only then, would he or she be considered an Agent for the homeowner, which would violate the use of public funds. Personally, I thought that BMBV wrote his interpretation fairly clearly on this matter of Agents, but I may have not been reading it fully, since I thought I had a clear understanding of the issue already and agreed with his interpretation.
Banned
Like everything else in SOWAL, legal matters are decided outside of our courts.
Judges and lawyers need no apply within as the jobs are already taken
ROALMNAO
Didn't you just love the one about the ADA not having anyting to do with access?
You had me rolling on that one sis.
My sides are hurtin
Judges and lawyers need no apply within as the jobs are already taken
ROALMNAO
Didn't you just love the one about the ADA not having anyting to do with access?
You had me rolling on that one sis.
My sides are hurtin
Banned
Have grate weak end
Check this one, surfs up gotta go
[nomedia]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Duh_1EWM6lk[/nomedia]
Check this one, surfs up gotta go
[nomedia]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Duh_1EWM6lk[/nomedia]
Banned
Just looking at the beach access picture, showing the walk over.
Dude, how the hell is that ADA compliant?
Steps, helloooo
They should be ramps. Oh, oh, should I have missed that?
Nah, too much fun
How would you file an ADA complaint? Not difficult at all if you're in a chair. Start by callin the reps at the Dept of Justice.
LONG BRANCH - A city resident has filed a complaint with the U.S. Department of Justice on behalf of senior citizens and disabled residents of the city he says have been denied beach access.
"Municipalities, such as Long Branch, are since January 1995, legally and categorically required by the ADA law to make these facilities ADA compliant," Gelzer said.
http://atlanticville.gmnews.com/news/2007/0301/Front_Page/034.html
You go girl
........................
[FONT=Times,Times New Roman]U.S. Department of Justice[/FONT]
http://www.usdoj.gov/crt/ada/adahom1.htm
Dude, how the hell is that ADA compliant?
Steps, helloooo
They should be ramps. Oh, oh, should I have missed that?
Nah, too much fun
How would you file an ADA complaint? Not difficult at all if you're in a chair. Start by callin the reps at the Dept of Justice.
LONG BRANCH - A city resident has filed a complaint with the U.S. Department of Justice on behalf of senior citizens and disabled residents of the city he says have been denied beach access.
"Municipalities, such as Long Branch, are since January 1995, legally and categorically required by the ADA law to make these facilities ADA compliant," Gelzer said.
http://atlanticville.gmnews.com/news/2007/0301/Front_Page/034.html
You go girl
........................[FONT=Times,Times New Roman]U.S. Department of Justice[/FONT]
http://www.usdoj.gov/crt/ada/adahom1.htm
Banned
Just see this webpage
I tried to insert graphics but it's biased
http://publicshore.com/disabled_issues.htm:
I tried to insert graphics but it's biased
http://publicshore.com/disabled_issues.htm:
Edited
SoWal Expert
graham,
I appreciate your fight for the ADA. However, unless you can quickly wrap it into context as to how it applies with the three properties trying to keep the beaches private, please refrain from posting it in this thread. Feel free to start a new thread for the ADA (I think it deserves some attention), but this particular thread is not the appropriate thread for it. We are trying to keep the beaches public, as they have been for years, and I fail to see the connection between ADA and our issue with private vs public beaches.
I appreciate your fight for the ADA. However, unless you can quickly wrap it into context as to how it applies with the three properties trying to keep the beaches private, please refrain from posting it in this thread. Feel free to start a new thread for the ADA (I think it deserves some attention), but this particular thread is not the appropriate thread for it. We are trying to keep the beaches public, as they have been for years, and I fail to see the connection between ADA and our issue with private vs public beaches.
Beach Fanatic
Original "posture":
I have always firmly believed the beaches are for all of us to enjoy. The edge of the bluff or the edge of the dunes should be the property line for beach front homeowners. Even this "mean high tide waterline" rule is ridiculous.
When you pay for beach front you are paying for the view and the risk of being washed away in a hurricane, you're not paying for the beach behind you. Trying to own the beach is like trying to own the sky.
I would proudly be arrested for walking on the beach anywhere on the "Beaches of South Walton." Get it? The Beaches of South Walton. Do we need to change the name of the place?
Dave, "come and get me" Rauschkolb.
Latest "posture":
I recommend any protest be organized, respectful, and in the mean high tide water line. Being anything but honorable will just look bad. Stay within the law make your points heard and enjoy the beach with a smile.
I like the "new" Dave a whole lot better.
You missed my point altogether. I was cheering on OZBEACHMOM and giving her advice to be more effective. She is as willing as I am to be arrested over this IF it comes to it as there are many more willing folks ...IF it comes to it. I am out of town or I would be there myself chatting it up with the security guards. Kudos to Sowallers who are keeping an eye on this in person.
Provoking an arrest is effective but is no longer necessary in this situation. The arrests have happened and so now the opposition has begun. The words "led away in handcuffs" was all the spark needed to turn the tide. How many hours a day do you spend on this?
So, I am sorry my dear BMBVagrant I believe the public has always won on this issue and will continue to do so. And my prediction is: When this is all decided access could be broader than the MHTWL not less. And any "posture" I have will be sitting with my butt firmly in the dry, white sand.
The difference between what we do and what we are capable of doing would suffice to solve most of the world's problems. ......Mahatma Gandhi
Banned
Smiling Joe
Are you the site moderator?
If you are the moderator, I would respect your opinion. Please respect mine.
You ahve one particular reader that has attacked my character. What do you plan on doing about it. This information may help you understand my position....
Defamation is the issuance of a false statement about another person, which causes that person to suffer harm.
Are you the site moderator?
If you are the moderator, I would respect your opinion. Please respect mine.
You ahve one particular reader that has attacked my character. What do you plan on doing about it. This information may help you understand my position....
Defamation is the issuance of a false statement about another person, which causes that person to suffer harm.
Slander involves the making of defamatory statements by a transitory (non-fixed) representation, usually an oral (spoken) representation.
Libel involves the making of defamatory statements in a fixed or medium, such as a magazine or newspaper.
The typical elements of a cause of action for defamation are:Libel involves the making of defamatory statements in a fixed or medium, such as a magazine or newspaper.
- A false and defamatory statement concerning another;
- The unprivileged publication of the statement to a third party;
- If the defamatory matter is of public concern, fault amounting at least to negligence on the part of the publisher; and
- Damage to the plaintiff.
Beach Fanatic
Captain Kurt would be the moderator. Now now children behave!
needs to get out more
GG, you think someone slandered or libeled you? where? I don't see anything of the sort. I saw someone try to make heads or tails of all your posts, which are quite tiring to read(a little too much liberty with font types, sizing and color for my old eyes), but i see no one attacking your character. maybe i'm missing a post somewhere.
Dave R, get away from the computer and get your azz in the water
you're on vacation, remember? hello to bobby.
Dave R, get away from the computer and get your azz in the water
you're on vacation, remember? hello to bobby.
Admin
Smiling Joe
Are you the site moderator?
If you are the moderator, I would respect your opinion. Please respect mine.
You ahve one particular reader that has attacked my character. What do you plan on doing about it. This information may help you understand my position....
Defamation is the issuance of a false statement about another person, which causes that person to suffer harm.Slander involves the making of defamatory statements by a transitory (non-fixed) representation, usually an oral (spoken) representation.
Libel involves the making of defamatory statements in a fixed or medium, such as a magazine or newspaper.The typical elements of a cause of action for defamation are:
http://www.attorneys-usa.com/intentional/defamation.html
- A false and defamatory statement concerning another;
- The unprivileged publication of the statement to a third party;
- If the defamatory matter is of public concern, fault amounting at least to negligence on the part of the publisher; and
- Damage to the plaintiff.
He's a moderator if he wants to be, and doesn't need a title to moderate or warrant your respect. You are earning none by posting irrelevant info and links. Please stick to the matter at hand, or at least don't interfere with the normal course of discussion.
SoWal Expert
Graham, I don't recall disrespecting you or your opinion. We each have our own thoughts, and that is what makes the world go around.
Please post all you want to about the ADA, as I mentioned it is a needed topic, but please do so by starting a new thread on that subject. If every beach issue is brought into this thread, the ideas and thoughts on this thread lose value, meaning, and purpose.
Please post all you want to about the ADA, as I mentioned it is a needed topic, but please do so by starting a new thread on that subject. If every beach issue is brought into this thread, the ideas and thoughts on this thread lose value, meaning, and purpose.
Checking your forum account
Please wait while we verify your forum account.