This morning as my wife and I were returing form a shoreline walk we saw county officials asking a couple of men to move their "set up" from infront of The Retreat at Blue Mountain Beach. About an hour later my wife saw him being led from the beach in handcuffs for tresspassing. One of the men was taking pictures... maybe we'll see them post them here.
I know from reading previous posts that this is a hot button issue but it seems that some want to enforce the "letter of the law". I saw where they were placed and it was close to the water line very near the boundry of the Inn at Blue Mountain. They seemed to minding their own business. As the sherriff left I happened to walk by them and heard "I think it was the right call... where the wet sand meets the dry".
I'm confused, the beachgoers were were set up outside of the posted signs. If the owners really want to keep people out can they fence in their beach? (not that I'd want to see that)
In the many years of coming to SoWal I've always been impressed with the civility of residents and tourists -- although I have heard some horror stories. We abolutely love it here and treat it as though we already live here. But I was very surprised that it seems the owners are calling the country for what seems such a small infraction -- seems like a waste.
This was the second day in a row that I saw county officials inforcing the private beach rule.
Is the pendulum swinging?
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962
SoWal Expert
A little off-topic, but does anyone knows if the county has a definition for "wet sand?" I walk along the shore almost everyday and wonder at which point the sand would be considered dry ? legally.I always thought wet sand meant wet sand and have thought about misting the entire area where i sit or stand with a squirtbottle, just to push the point. You could also dig until you hit wet sand.
Also off topic, I wonder if business owners and rental owners could file a class action lawsuit of damages against the Gulf Front owners who run people off for trespassing. You know that everyone's business will suffer if they stop people from sunbathing on the beach.
Skunky
Smiley J, as somebody once said, "I would have gotten away with it if it wasn't for those meddling kids,". Long live John R's Mystery Machine
Banned
OMG, This is unreal, we are fighting over a piece of land that was created by God and loaned to man. Folks I know little about the local Sheriff, but I will say this. If a law was being broken and the person debated the law with the officers for what appears to be an hour or more? And some wonder why the police are slow in answering a call? And now I see a call to protest? Please take a deep breath... Anyone know how many American young men and women died today in the Middle East? Now that?s just plain awful in my opinion.
I seen where someone posted the other night applauding the forestry service for the burn offs, But yet the elderly that where locked down inside their homes because the air was thick with acidic smoke? Please someone point me to Eden?
In closing please pray for the men and women in our military and the innocent people dieing over religion and oil.
Gods Blessings to all!
Happy Holidays?
I seen where someone posted the other night applauding the forestry service for the burn offs, But yet the elderly that where locked down inside their homes because the air was thick with acidic smoke? Please someone point me to Eden?
In closing please pray for the men and women in our military and the innocent people dieing over religion and oil.
Gods Blessings to all!
Happy Holidays?
SoWal Expert
Eddy, do you not think it possible to fight for property rights as well as care about what is happening in the middle east? It was I who was saying that the control burns are a good thing in my opinion. You can point out the smoke problems, but I could also counter that with worse scenario of an out of control fire which does more than fill the air with smoke.
War is an interesting beast, and behind each war, there stands politics or religion, and often, both. We can say that the war about whatever, but in the big picture, our troops have sacrificed so that we can have freedoms, even to argue over such things as a simple right to sit peacefully on the beach. At least we are somewhat making an argument for American rights and privileges rather than discussing what Howard Stern says on the Jimmy Kimmel show. That topic would belong in the Lounge.
Now what is it exactly that you want me and BMBV to do to make Bush and Congress stop spending billions of Yen, I mean US Dollars on the war, and get our troops out of the middle east? Don't think that the current war doesn't weigh on most American hearts, in some form or fashion.
War is an interesting beast, and behind each war, there stands politics or religion, and often, both. We can say that the war about whatever, but in the big picture, our troops have sacrificed so that we can have freedoms, even to argue over such things as a simple right to sit peacefully on the beach. At least we are somewhat making an argument for American rights and privileges rather than discussing what Howard Stern says on the Jimmy Kimmel show. That topic would belong in the Lounge.
Now what is it exactly that you want me and BMBV to do to make Bush and Congress stop spending billions of Yen, I mean US Dollars on the war, and get our troops out of the middle east? Don't think that the current war doesn't weigh on most American hearts, in some form or fashion.
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Banned
At least we are somewhat making an argument for American rights and privileges rather than discussing what Howard Stern says on the Jimmy Kimmel show. That topic would belong in the Lounge.
Jo, what about the rights of the land owner? Because you think the difference of wet and dry has a meaning does not make it right. Whats right is the Land Owner has the right to protect whats theirs. What happened to the rights of the one who pays property taxes to provide public access areas? Does this mean just because its wet or dry you can bend it into your way. I will bring all my drinking buddies to your yard this weekend an party on? Leave behind all our trash? Is this OK Jo?
You bring with you the "RIGHTS" of the American living in the USA. Jo, this is not a scare tactic... In 2001 every American lost the Right to do anything unless the government approves it or just don't care. Let you think on that one Jo.
I am not hear to debate you Jo, Freedom of speech and all that. Just simply making a point that I feel the war in the middle east needs to be everyones front thought. It is what it is as they say. You have your own ideals and until a government Representative disagrees with you are free to do so.
Theres an old saying Jo, "Remember the Alamo!" soon it will be ..."Remember the Patriot Act!"
Jo, enjoy your day and happy holidays to you... I will leave this thread alone in hopes it will die its well needed death.
Jo, what about the rights of the land owner? Because you think the difference of wet and dry has a meaning does not make it right. Whats right is the Land Owner has the right to protect whats theirs. What happened to the rights of the one who pays property taxes to provide public access areas? Does this mean just because its wet or dry you can bend it into your way. I will bring all my drinking buddies to your yard this weekend an party on? Leave behind all our trash? Is this OK Jo?
You bring with you the "RIGHTS" of the American living in the USA. Jo, this is not a scare tactic... In 2001 every American lost the Right to do anything unless the government approves it or just don't care. Let you think on that one Jo.
I am not hear to debate you Jo, Freedom of speech and all that. Just simply making a point that I feel the war in the middle east needs to be everyones front thought. It is what it is as they say. You have your own ideals and until a government Representative disagrees with you are free to do so.
Theres an old saying Jo, "Remember the Alamo!" soon it will be ..."Remember the Patriot Act!"
Jo, enjoy your day and happy holidays to you... I will leave this thread alone in hopes it will die its well needed death.
SoWal Expert
Jo, what about the rights of the land owner? Because you think the difference of wet and dry has a meaning does not make it right. Whats right is the Land Owner has the right to protect whats theirs. What happened to the rights of the one who pays property taxes to provide public access areas? Does this mean just because its wet or dry you can bend it into your way. I will bring all my drinking buddies to your yard this weekend an party on? Leave behind all our trash? Is this OK Jo?BMBV and many others are fighting for that side. You really don't expect me to fight for two opposing sides, do you? Sure sounds like it.
You bring with you the "RIGHTS" of the American living in the USA. Jo, this is not a scare tactic... In 2001 every American lost the Right to do anything unless the government approves it or just don't care. Let you think on that one Jo.
I am not hear to debate you Jo, Freedom of speech and all that. Just simply making a point that I feel the war in the middle east needs to be everyones front thought. It is what it is as they say. You have your own ideals and until a government Representative disagrees with you are free to do so.
Theres an old saying Jo, "Remember the Alamo!" soon it will be ..."Remember the Patriot Act!"
Jo, enjoy your day and happy holidays to you... I will leave this thread alone in hopes it will die its well needed death.
Who said the war isn't on my front thought just because I am arguing points for beach usage? Sounds like you came into this thread making the point that troops are dying and that we should devote all of our attention to the war, but then with your other comment, it sounds like you own Gulf Front property in Blue Mtn Beach.
As for the Patriot Act, ask Skunky or others about my thoughts on it. I state them often. Now back to the subject at hand. Perhaps you can start new threads about the war and the patriot act. I'll post a thing or two.
For the record, the tourists pay the taxes for maintaining the public beach accesses.
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needs to get out more
methinks Edie needs to get up to speed on issues already discussed in this thread and redfish, take a look at the surge thread, and possibly start a new thread in politics about the war. clearly, they are two distinct topics.
Banned
Gent's its just simple, sorry it went above ones head... "Me thinks there are more important things in life than someone protecting thier property rights and to sit on a BB and play backseat quaterback." Me also thinks some have a axe to drop on the "Rich" and or Blue Mt Beach folks. I read enough of this thread to see how some are just plain bull headed and put the blame on 'De Udder guy". Grow up ... its that simple.. have a great life, It seems at an average of 19.58 post per day someone has a very limited veiw on the REAL outside. This of course is just my opinion. LOL gesh... What a wonderful day it is today.
Edited
needs to get out more
It must be so easy when one is all knowing. Thanks for dropping by.
Beach Fanatic
At least we are somewhat making an argument for American rights and privileges rather than discussing what Howard Stern says on the Jimmy Kimmel show. That topic would belong in the Lounge.
Jo, what about the rights of the land owner? Because you think the difference of wet and dry has a meaning does not make it right. Whats right is the Land Owner has the right to protect whats theirs. What happened to the rights of the one who pays property taxes to provide public access areas? Does this mean just because its wet or dry you can bend it into your way. I will bring all my drinking buddies to your yard this weekend an party on? Leave behind all our trash? Is this OK Jo?
You bring with you the "RIGHTS" of the American living in the USA. Jo, this is not a scare tactic... In 2001 every American lost the Right to do anything unless the government approves it or just don't care. Let you think on that one Jo.
I am not hear to debate you Jo, Freedom of speech and all that. Just simply making a point that I feel the war in the middle east needs to be everyones front thought. It is what it is as they say. You have your own ideals and until a government Representative disagrees with you are free to do so.
Theres an old saying Jo, "Remember the Alamo!" soon it will be ..."Remember the Patriot Act!"
Jo, enjoy your day and happy holidays to you... I will leave this thread alone in hopes it will die its well needed death.
Gent's its just simple, sorry it went above ones head... "Me thinks there are more important things in life than someone protecting thier property rights and to sit on a BB and play backseat quaterback." Me also thinks some have a axe to drop on the "Rich" and or Blue Mt Beach folks. I read enough of this thread to see how some are just plain bull headed and put the blame on 'De Udder guy". Grow up ... its that simple.. have a great life, It seems at an average of 19.58 post per day someone has a very limited veiw on the REAL outside. This of course is just my opinion. LOL gesh... What a wonderful day it is today.Gibberish..I had to look up your other posts to see if I was being put on as to your command of the english language. You seem to be able to post coherently when kept to 10 words or less.
Beach Fanatic
Gent's its just simple, sorry it went above ones head... "Me thinks there are more important things in life than someone protecting thier property rights and to sit on a BB and play backseat quaterback." Me also thinks some have a axe to drop on the "Rich" and or Blue Mt Beach folks. I read enough of this thread to see how some are just plain bull headed and put the blame on 'De Udder guy". Grow up ... its that simple.. have a great life, It seems at an average of 19.58 post per day someone has a very limited veiw on the REAL outside. This of course is just my opinion. LOL gesh... What a wonderful day it is today.Eddie Lewis, I don't know who you are and have never seen your posts previously, but they appear to me to be a bunch of crap and certainly not related to the subject at hand. BMBV and I live on the beach. Its usage is important to both of us. We disagree on that usage. That doesn't necessarily mean we disagree on the Iraq war but it doesn't matter. That is for discussion on another thread. I, myself, am relatively new to this website and am trying to learn the etiquette for this board which I think is a wonderful concept. My suggestion to you would be to try and do the same. Welcome aboard.
SoWal Expert
Gent's its just simple, sorry it went above ones head... "Me thinks there are more important things in life than someone protecting thier property rights and to sit on a BB and play backseat quaterback." Me also thinks some have a axe to drop on the "Rich" and or Blue Mt Beach folks. I read enough of this thread to see how some are just plain bull headed and put the blame on 'De Udder guy". Grow up ... its that simple.. have a great life, It seems at an average of 19.58 post per day someone has a very limited veiw on the REAL outside. This of course is just my opinion. LOL gesh... What a wonderful day it is today.
and you are posting this on what? a bulletin board, in a thread about being led away in handcuffs. Are you really disappointed that you, yourself, are not stopping the war? Get Fo Real.
As for the number of post one averages, so what? I have no idea who you are or what you do, but even with my high number of posts, I bet I still have more real life experiences than most. Some people don't sit around watching tv, and choose instead to find out and share information about the place where we live. Some people also have children they raise or spouses with whom to share time, so their post count may be a little low. Some people also feel more restrained in what they say. Now stop complaining about people spending time on a bulletin board if you are going to be joining in the bulletin board conversation. It is just silly. By the way, someone else recently said that I average 2 minutes time spent per post, so at a rate of 20 posts per day, that is only 40 minutes of typing per day.
Edited
Beach Fanatic
"Eddie style" is pretty recognizable despite serial AKA disguises.
Beach Fanatic
Agreed -that annoying "De Udder Guy" junk is a dead giveaway.
Beach Fanatic
Agreed -that annoying "De Udder Guy" junk is a dead giveaway.
... and "Grow Up" & "Jo-Jo-Jo-Jo-Jo"
Beach Fanatic
Here's an email I received today:
I heard that attorney Matthew Burns, who represents "some gulf front property owners", has developed and is proposing an Ordinance he wants the Board of County Commissioners (BCC) to enact. In essence, the Ordinance would recognize private ownership of some of our beaches and establish that the County does not recognize the Customary and Historic use of our beaches by the public.
Burns is supposed to present this request at the BCC meeting next Tuesday. He previously warned the BCC to not pass an Ordinance that recognizes Customary and Historic Use that would allow the public full access to and use of all Walton County beaches.
It is interesting that next Tuesday's BCC meeting was supposed to be held at the County Court House in South Walton County, where the beaches are, but has been moved to the County Court House in DeFuniak Springs, north of the bay
I heard that attorney Matthew Burns, who represents "some gulf front property owners", has developed and is proposing an Ordinance he wants the Board of County Commissioners (BCC) to enact. In essence, the Ordinance would recognize private ownership of some of our beaches and establish that the County does not recognize the Customary and Historic use of our beaches by the public.
Burns is supposed to present this request at the BCC meeting next Tuesday. He previously warned the BCC to not pass an Ordinance that recognizes Customary and Historic Use that would allow the public full access to and use of all Walton County beaches.
It is interesting that next Tuesday's BCC meeting was supposed to be held at the County Court House in South Walton County, where the beaches are, but has been moved to the County Court House in DeFuniak Springs, north of the bay
SoWal Expert
Interesting ordinance proposition, and something that, in my opinion, the County cannot legally pass, since they don't have the authority to determine Customary and Historical Use. I will add that if they do have the authority, and they were being truthful, they was show just the opposite, that the beaches in WalCo have been customarily used by the public for many years. This County would dry up in a heart beat if they actually enforce the public siting on privately deeded beaches in WalCo. Want another Tea Party? The BCC meeting is about 4 days early.
Beach Fanatic
Here is an excerpt from the Aug 13, 2002 BCC meeting minutes. It is on the county's website.
Commissioner Pauls brought up the issue of the public?s right to traverse the beach due to a recent incident between a member of the public and a beachfront homeowner. He stated that after review of the legal documentation provided, his conclusion would be that the public has a right to use and traverse the beach, including the white sandy area of the beach. However, there is still uncertainty as to what that area is. He stated that he has spoken with Deputy Gray from the Sheriff?s Department who agrees that there is a problem. He suggested scheduling public workshops to discuss this issue further supporting the public?s right to use and traverse the beach.
Mr. Wilde stated that there a more deeds that show ownership to the mean high water line than first thought. He explained that Judge Green has declined to accept a criminal trespass citation and immediately wrote an opinion suggesting the property owner have the mean high water line surveyed. Mr. Wilde stated that several people have assured him that the mean high water line is in the water, but they are unsure how far into the water. He stated that the most important issue is the safety and welfare of the citizens and visitors to Walton County. A policy needs to be developed for the Code Enforcement Officers and the Sheriff?s Department to follow. (Tape 3)
Mr. Mark Austin stated that the Board needs to stand on the side of the people in order to protect funding that comes from the property owners. If the beach is taken away from the public then visitors will no longer visit the beach areas or spend their money in Walton County. He stated that one issue needing to be addressed is "Florida?s Sovereign Land", that part of the beach that is hit by water at any time; this is public land.
Commissioner Walker stated that this is a decision that needs to be addressed by the courts. Commissioner Pauls stated that a policy is needed that can be followed. Attorney Vorbeck stated that an ordinance needs to be adopted stating basically what the Tony Rama case stands for and recognizing the fact that this issue will go to court.
Commissioner Ryan stated that an ordinance needs to be drafted to allow the public free use of the beach. He also suggested contacting other counties who have had to deal with this issue. Attorney Vorbeck requested the Board acknowledge that they are willing to spend the money it will take to go to court once an ordinance is drafted. Commissioner Walker stated that the Board of County Commissioners has always stipulated that the white sand areas of the beaches are public. Commissioner Ryan agreed.
Commissioner Pauls brought up the issue of the public?s right to traverse the beach due to a recent incident between a member of the public and a beachfront homeowner. He stated that after review of the legal documentation provided, his conclusion would be that the public has a right to use and traverse the beach, including the white sandy area of the beach. However, there is still uncertainty as to what that area is. He stated that he has spoken with Deputy Gray from the Sheriff?s Department who agrees that there is a problem. He suggested scheduling public workshops to discuss this issue further supporting the public?s right to use and traverse the beach.
Mr. Wilde stated that there a more deeds that show ownership to the mean high water line than first thought. He explained that Judge Green has declined to accept a criminal trespass citation and immediately wrote an opinion suggesting the property owner have the mean high water line surveyed. Mr. Wilde stated that several people have assured him that the mean high water line is in the water, but they are unsure how far into the water. He stated that the most important issue is the safety and welfare of the citizens and visitors to Walton County. A policy needs to be developed for the Code Enforcement Officers and the Sheriff?s Department to follow. (Tape 3)
Mr. Mark Austin stated that the Board needs to stand on the side of the people in order to protect funding that comes from the property owners. If the beach is taken away from the public then visitors will no longer visit the beach areas or spend their money in Walton County. He stated that one issue needing to be addressed is "Florida?s Sovereign Land", that part of the beach that is hit by water at any time; this is public land.
Commissioner Walker stated that this is a decision that needs to be addressed by the courts. Commissioner Pauls stated that a policy is needed that can be followed. Attorney Vorbeck stated that an ordinance needs to be adopted stating basically what the Tony Rama case stands for and recognizing the fact that this issue will go to court.
Commissioner Ryan stated that an ordinance needs to be drafted to allow the public free use of the beach. He also suggested contacting other counties who have had to deal with this issue. Attorney Vorbeck requested the Board acknowledge that they are willing to spend the money it will take to go to court once an ordinance is drafted. Commissioner Walker stated that the Board of County Commissioners has always stipulated that the white sand areas of the beaches are public. Commissioner Ryan agreed.
SoWal Expert
So the BCC has recorded minutes stating that the beach has been cutomarily used by the public. So much for that proposed ordinance.
I really think the BCC knows the risks of lawsuits from Gulf Front property owners, and aren't likely to want to pay the costs associated with the lawsuits. They'd rather let you and I get arrested and fight that beast with our own money.
As I see it, the only way to get this issue to the forefront is to have several thousand beach goers set up their towels on the dry sandy beach in front of property owners who are calling the cops and reporting trespassing.
I really think the BCC knows the risks of lawsuits from Gulf Front property owners, and aren't likely to want to pay the costs associated with the lawsuits. They'd rather let you and I get arrested and fight that beast with our own money.
As I see it, the only way to get this issue to the forefront is to have several thousand beach goers set up their towels on the dry sandy beach in front of property owners who are calling the cops and reporting trespassing.
Beach Fanatic
Here is an excerpt from the Aug 13, 2002 BCC meeting minutes. It is on the county's website.
Commissioner Pauls brought up the issue of the public?s right to traverse the beach due to a recent incident between a member of the public and a beachfront homeowner. .......
Interesting that you would bring up Commissioner Pauls' name here by reference.
You do remember when he barricaded a piece of property owned by him to prevent continued school bus access to the Butler school?
http://www.redorbit.com/news/educat...school_bus_access_deal_ends_fight_that_began/
I guess he was just defending his private property rights.
SoWal Expert
Interesting that you would bring up Commissioner Pauls' name here by reference.and if the BCC tries to stop the public from sunbathing on the beach in Walton County, I will baracade the road which was built on my property, and tell the BCC to shove it. Maybe I'll even hire an excavator to remove it.
You do remember when he barricaded a piece of property owned by him to prevent continued school bus access to the Butler school?
http://www.redorbit.com/news/educat...school_bus_access_deal_ends_fight_that_began/
I guess he was just defending his private property rights.
Beach Fanatic
and if the BCC tries to stop the public from sunbathing on the beach in Walton County, I will baracade the road which was built on my property, and tell the BCC to shove it. Maybe I'll even hire an excavator to remove it.
Banned
and if the BCC tries to stop the public from sunbathing on the beach in Walton County, I will baracade the road which was built on my property, and tell the BCC to shove it. Maybe I'll even hire an excavator to remove it.
Good Morning Jo,
I would go with the hiring route if I were you, Jo you wouldnt have enough time with all your postings, LOL.. I find you very entertaining, Have a wonderful day!
Brahahahahahaha:rofl:
"Boston Tea Party?"
SoWal Expert
Yes, Boston Tea Party. The anniversary date is approaching. Surely the people who have been paying bed taxes to fund the TDC which maintains the entire stretch of beach in Walton County, would have a reason to protest the County adopting the ordinance which is being recommended by the attorney representing a few Gulf front owners.
Beach Fanatic
and if the BCC tries to stop the public from sunbathing on the beach in Walton County, I will baracade the road which was built on my property, and tell the BCC to shove it. Maybe I'll even hire an excavator to remove it.
Does the road go to the beach? If so, and the BCC stops the public from the beach, do you foresee the public sunbathing on your road? Otherwise, are you afraid all the public will use your road for illegal beach access? Sorry to come in on this thread lately, but I can't quite follow your intent. Are you saying the road was not legally built there? No easement? If it doesn't go to the beach, are you trying to "one-up" the BCC, not only barring the public from the beach, but from a road? Sometimes I don't have all the wisdom of the pale cat with lime headdress who is NotDeadYet but clapping mightily.
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