Another Bunch of out of touch elected officials.
At the Dec. 3 South Walton Fire District Fire Board meeting, Fire Commissioner Brian Christenson suggested using money still in the budget to recognize and reward full-time employees.
The $19,899.49 was budgeted in 2007 for a new employee that won’t be hired until next year.
Christenson suggested a $200 Christmas bonus, for a total of $19,800.
In the past, the fire district has not given holiday bonuses. Last year, each employee received a $25 gift certificate in lieu of the annual Christmas party.
“Firefighters do everything to make sure no one is left out during the holidays,” Commissioner Donna Crawford said. “They are paid well, but they are still civil service and don’t get paid enough. I would like to see the firefighters and staff have a nice Christmas.”
Fire Commissioner Jack Abbit, who had worked with the firefighters during contract negotiations, expressed concern that the bonuses might set a precedent.
Fire board attorney Allan Ramey suggested the board could be creating a problem and advised the fire chief to run it by the labor attorneys. He also said when the Walton County Taxpayers Association, a local watchdog group, look at this, they might ask, “Are you serving the people who elected us?”
Abbit advised the board to step back and do something less. He agreed with Ramey “that the Taxpayers Association might come in and say we gave this money away.”
Although Commissioner Mike Stange said he would love to give a $200 bonus, that was definitely setting a precedent. He suggested a $100 gift certificate.
Fire Chief Rick Talbert said whether it was a $25 gift certificate or the suggested $100, it was all in the delivery. He asked the board’s permission to draft a letter that explained where the money came from.
The motion to give a $100 gift certificate to all annual full-time employees as an end of year holiday gift was unanimously approved, subject to the approval of the labor attorneys.
Replies
60
Beach Fanatic
Re: South Walton Fire Board
Personally, I don't see a problem here.
I think they should have given them the whole $200. They really don't get paid enough, imho.
Personally, I don't see a problem here.
I think they should have given them the whole $200. They really don't get paid enough, imho.
Beach LoverAuthor
Re: South Walton Fire Board
Please remember these are starting salaries plus benefits.
Effective October 1, 2007 FF/EMT starting salary is $38,398 and FF/PM starting salary is $44,121 with additional incentives available.
Please remember these are starting salaries plus benefits.
Effective October 1, 2007 FF/EMT starting salary is $38,398 and FF/PM starting salary is $44,121 with additional incentives available.
SoWal Expert
Re: South Walton Fire Board
I'm certainly not against Xmas bonuses, but I do question why people have the idea that one must zero out the bank account.
Why wouldn't we save that money for a future budgetary shortfall - overtime costs for fighting a forest fire perhaps, equipment repair/replacement etc. I am sure there is something they have asked for in the past that there wasn't money in the budget for.
Even banking the $20k for a year in a money market account could earn them several hundred dollars in interest that they could use for a future scholarship or charity.
I'm certainly not against Xmas bonuses, but I do question why people have the idea that one must zero out the bank account.
Why wouldn't we save that money for a future budgetary shortfall - overtime costs for fighting a forest fire perhaps, equipment repair/replacement etc.
I am sure there is something they have asked for in the past that there wasn't money in the budget for.Even banking the $20k for a year in a money market account could earn them several hundred dollars in interest that they could use for a future scholarship or charity.
SoWal Expert
Re: South Walton Fire Board
A note of quick math brings the number of full time FFs to a total of just under 100. Do we really have that many in WalCo? I have no idea, but think that some of those FFs are voluntary, like in and around Freeport, Paxton, etc. That number seems high to me.
I also cannot help but think about the Fire Commissioners getting to take something like $400 per month from the County to pay for their health insurance. :shock: That is about four times the cost of my monthly health insurance. Are these the people who are concerned with giving out a once a year bonus of a mere $200 to the dedicated people who save the lives of our friends and family, as well as save property from millions of dollars of damage, all while putting their own lives on the line? That math doesn't add up on my calculator. I say that if the Walton County Tax Payers Association has a problem with giving the bonuses, they need to reconsider the benefits packages of the many commissioners, director, and officers in Walton County. Let's at least have some semblance of balance.
Please remember these are starting salaries plus benefits.Sorry, but I keep thinking about the former Mosquito Control Director making a salary of well more than $100,000.
Effective October 1, 2007 FF/EMT starting salary is $38,398 and FF/PM starting salary is $44,121 with additional incentives available.
A note of quick math brings the number of full time FFs to a total of just under 100. Do we really have that many in WalCo? I have no idea, but think that some of those FFs are voluntary, like in and around Freeport, Paxton, etc. That number seems high to me.
I also cannot help but think about the Fire Commissioners getting to take something like $400 per month from the County to pay for their health insurance. :shock: That is about four times the cost of my monthly health insurance. Are these the people who are concerned with giving out a once a year bonus of a mere $200 to the dedicated people who save the lives of our friends and family, as well as save property from millions of dollars of damage, all while putting their own lives on the line? That math doesn't add up on my calculator. I say that if the Walton County Tax Payers Association has a problem with giving the bonuses, they need to reconsider the benefits packages of the many commissioners, director, and officers in Walton County. Let's at least have some semblance of balance.
SoWal Expert
Re: South Walton Fire Board
I'm certainly not against Xmas bonuses, but I do question why people have the idea that one must zero out the bank account.All are excellent points. The reason boils down to one -- if they don't use it, they lose it in next year's budget. Maybe it really doesn't work that way, but they all pretend it does.
Why wouldn't we save that money for a future budgetary shortfall - overtime costs for fighting a forest fire perhaps, equipment repair/replacement etc.
Even banking the $20k for a year in a money market account could earn them several hundred dollars in interest that they could use for a future scholarship or charity.
Beach LoverAuthor
Re: South Walton Fire Board
All work full-time for South Walton Fire District.
Why a 400% increase over last year ? Why a bonus at all ?
The BCC gives a Turkey.
You will loose your money if you think the BCC is above the SWFD in benefits and salaries for the North Walton Fire District.
All work full-time for South Walton Fire District.
Why a 400% increase over last year ? Why a bonus at all ?
The BCC gives a Turkey.
You will loose your money if you think the BCC is above the SWFD in benefits and salaries for the North Walton Fire District.
Edited
SoWal Expert
Re: South Walton Fire Board
Which is why I suggested they use it to buy equipment or create a scholarship fund while they have the $. I can see a future budget meeting where they get less $ because "they'll just use it on bonuses like last time."
I'd rather we trim some fat from other budgets & salaries (rhymes w/ taquito) if we feel folks are underpaid/compensated.
Do they have higher insurance rates because they are in a high-risk/prone to injury profession?
Which is why I suggested they use it to buy equipment or create a scholarship fund while they have the $. I can see a future budget meeting where they get less $ because "they'll just use it on bonuses like last time."
I'd rather we trim some fat from other budgets & salaries (rhymes w/ taquito) if we feel folks are underpaid/compensated.
Do they have higher insurance rates because they are in a high-risk/prone to injury profession?
Beach LoverAuthor
Re: South Walton Fire Board
Their benefits are 100% paid by the district I think. I'm sure the premiums are higher than a McDonald's employee.
Don't get me wrong, they are in a hazardous job - but that starting salary is substantial amoung "new hires" in Walton County.
It's reeally about how easy it is to "give away other peoples money". Makes them feel good. The commissioners receive a slary of $500 per month or they can opt into the benefits package. Not bad for 1-2 hours per month.
Their benefits are 100% paid by the district I think. I'm sure the premiums are higher than a McDonald's employee.
Don't get me wrong, they are in a hazardous job - but that starting salary is substantial amoung "new hires" in Walton County.
It's reeally about how easy it is to "give away other peoples money". Makes them feel good. The commissioners receive a slary of $500 per month or they can opt into the benefits package. Not bad for 1-2 hours per month.
SoWal Expert
Re: South Walton Fire Board
never said they were.
As for giving employees a bonus? You are right. Let's get morale really low, and take away there existing bonus. Employees surely can't expect one this year, just because they got one last year. They'd be crazy to think that way. It's a bonus, right? Not something that should be expected. It's not like low morale has any effect on employees. It doesn't make them have resentment toward the company, or feel like they can steal and justify the theft as something which they deserved. Let's tighten up the ship, and tell these @ssholes to find another job if they don't like the one they have. That will fix everything and make everyone very happy about risking their own life for the safety of others. What a great way to say, Merry F'ing Christmas. I love it.
(insert smiley with tongue in cheek). ;-)
All work full-time for South Walton Fire District.
Why a 400% increase over last year ? Why a bonus at all ?
The BCC gives a Turkey.
You will loose your money if you think the BCC is above the SWFD in benefits and salaries for the North Walton Fire District.
never said they were.
As for giving employees a bonus? You are right. Let's get morale really low, and take away there existing bonus. Employees surely can't expect one this year, just because they got one last year. They'd be crazy to think that way. It's a bonus, right? Not something that should be expected. It's not like low morale has any effect on employees. It doesn't make them have resentment toward the company, or feel like they can steal and justify the theft as something which they deserved. Let's tighten up the ship, and tell these @ssholes to find another job if they don't like the one they have. That will fix everything and make everyone very happy about risking their own life for the safety of others. What a great way to say, Merry F'ing Christmas. I love it.
(insert smiley with tongue in cheek). ;-)
SoWal Expert
Re: South Walton Fire Board
I'd love to see a list of what all our "public officials" are paid (including benefits).
For some reason I'm thinking I won't like how the math works out when you figure their hourly rate:angry:.
I'd love to see a list of what all our "public officials" are paid (including benefits).
For some reason I'm thinking I won't like how the math works out when you figure their hourly rate:angry:.
SoWal Expert
Re: South Walton Fire Board
Does the position of fire fighter/PM in SoWal require any previous training, certification, and or experience? Just wondering how much training other positions require. I am also wondering how much more life-threatening responsibilities a FF/PM has, versus a garbage loader or a meter checker.
Also, I am wondering where a FF married to a stay at home parent, having two kids, would live in SoWal if they tried to buy a home today. Not many trailers left to chose from, today.
Their benefits are 100% paid by the district I think. I'm sure the premiums are higher than a McDonald's employee.
Don't get me wrong, they are in a hazardous job - but that starting salary is substantial amoung "new hires" in Walton County.
It's reeally about how easy it is to "give away other peoples money". Makes them feel good. The commissioners receive a slary of $500 per month or they can opt into the benefits package. Not bad for 1-2 hours per month.
Does the position of fire fighter/PM in SoWal require any previous training, certification, and or experience? Just wondering how much training other positions require.
I am also wondering how much more life-threatening responsibilities a FF/PM has, versus a garbage loader or a meter checker. Also, I am wondering where a FF married to a stay at home parent, having two kids, would live in SoWal if they tried to buy a home today. Not many trailers left to chose from, today.
SoWal Expert
Re: South Walton Fire Board
I'd love to see a list of what all our "public officials" are paid (including benefits).I can get you some salary info, but I don't know of a complete list. Any particular office?
For some reason I'm thinking I won't like how the math works out when you figure their hourly rate:angry:.
Beach LoverAuthor
Re: South Walton Fire Board
Noone said take anything away. The question is why increase the bonus from a $25.00 gift ecertificate to $200.
Not the time to do that when the rest of the world has basically abandoned this practice.
Noone said take anything away. The question is why increase the bonus from a $25.00 gift ecertificate to $200.
Not the time to do that when the rest of the world has basically abandoned this practice.
SoWal Expert
Re: South Walton Fire Board
Sorry for the misunderstanding. I really thought that you stated in post #7, "Why a bonus at all ?"
I'm not sure what you mean about the rest of the world basically abanodoning the practice of giving a Christmas bonus to full time employees. Most business owners I know never stopped giving a bonus. Maybe I live in la-la land.
In the businesses where I worked, most owners and managers would be laughed at for giving a Christmas bonus on only 3% of their weekly earnings. Here is a big bonus check for $25, now go buy your son and daughter some toys. Don't spend it all in one place. (right) Typically, in the places where I worked, full time employees averaged bonuses between 25%-100% of weekly salaries, depending on the job positions. There were also typically requirements that the full time employee had to have worked at the company for a minimum of 6 months to receive the annual bonus, but one company always waved that and paid the full timers a bonus, too. Employees remember small things like that which can make a big difference in morale, turnover, service provided, going beyond the call of duty, etc.
Noone said take anything away. The question is why increase the bonus from a $25.00 gift ecertificate to $200.
Not the time to do that when the rest of the world has basically abandoned this practice.
Sorry for the misunderstanding. I really thought that you stated in post #7, "Why a bonus at all ?"
I'm not sure what you mean about the rest of the world basically abanodoning the practice of giving a Christmas bonus to full time employees. Most business owners I know never stopped giving a bonus. Maybe I live in la-la land.
In the businesses where I worked, most owners and managers would be laughed at for giving a Christmas bonus on only 3% of their weekly earnings. Here is a big bonus check for $25, now go buy your son and daughter some toys. Don't spend it all in one place. (right) Typically, in the places where I worked, full time employees averaged bonuses between 25%-100% of weekly salaries, depending on the job positions. There were also typically requirements that the full time employee had to have worked at the company for a minimum of 6 months to receive the annual bonus, but one company always waved that and paid the full timers a bonus, too. Employees remember small things like that which can make a big difference in morale, turnover, service provided, going beyond the call of duty, etc.
Edited
Beach LoverAuthor
Re: South Walton Fire Board
Straight from the SWFD website
The South Walton Fire District (SWFD) is currently recruiting firefighters. Applicants must hold a Florida Certificate of Compliance as a firefighter. EMT or Paramedic preferred. Effective October 1, 2007 FF/EMT starting salary is $38,398 and FF/PM starting salary is $44,121 with additional incentives available. SWFD also offers a comprehensive benefit package.
Straight from the SWFD website
The South Walton Fire District (SWFD) is currently recruiting firefighters. Applicants must hold a Florida Certificate of Compliance as a firefighter. EMT or Paramedic preferred. Effective October 1, 2007 FF/EMT starting salary is $38,398 and FF/PM starting salary is $44,121 with additional incentives available. SWFD also offers a comprehensive benefit package.
SoWal Expert
Re: South Walton Fire Board
Also, if they are having trouble recruiting needed fire fighters, don't you think they should be trying to increase the salary or show the FFs more respect as employees? Part of it is supply and demand. Increase employee morale, and they will be your best recruiters and help to decrease employee turnover.
Straight from the SWFD websiteThanks for making my point. FireFighters require certification prior to employment where as most other County jobs do not, other than maybe holding a CDL for a bus driver or a dump truck driver.
The South Walton Fire District (SWFD) is currently recruiting firefighters. Applicants must hold a Florida Certificate of Compliance as a firefighter. EMT or Paramedic preferred. Effective October 1, 2007 FF/EMT starting salary is $38,398 and FF/PM starting salary is $44,121 with additional incentives available. SWFD also offers a comprehensive benefit package.
Also, if they are having trouble recruiting needed fire fighters, don't you think they should be trying to increase the salary or show the FFs more respect as employees? Part of it is supply and demand. Increase employee morale, and they will be your best recruiters and help to decrease employee turnover.
Edited
SoWal Expert
Re: South Walton Fire Board
No particular office, it just seems to come up more and more that they are overpaid and underqualified/accountable/skilled.
There is specific training required to be an EMT etc. but I don't know the particulars.
I can get you some salary info, but I don't know of a complete list. Any particular office?
No particular office, it just seems to come up more and more that they are overpaid and underqualified/accountable/skilled.
There is specific training required to be an EMT etc. but I don't know the particulars.
Beach Fanatic
Re: South Walton Fire Board
There are some County managers (at least one ;-)) however that have pulled money out of their own pocket to give the people working under them a monetary sign of appreciation. I am not advocating either way, but I do know that people who feel appreciated, usually appreciate their job more.
All work full-time for South Walton Fire District.
Why a 400% increase over last year ? Why a bonus at all ?
The BCC gives a Turkey.
You will loose your money if you think the BCC is above the SWFD in benefits and salaries for the North Walton Fire District.
There are some County managers (at least one ;-)) however that have pulled money out of their own pocket to give the people working under them a monetary sign of appreciation. I am not advocating either way, but I do know that people who feel appreciated, usually appreciate their job more.
Beach Lover
Re: South Walton Fire Board
Firefighter is a life not a job. Give them a break. It is the people not the equipment that makes the fire service what it is. I am sure they will work just as hard to save your house from a fire, or tend the injured at an accident without a bonus! They are wired that way. But, give em the crumby 200 bucks and don't whine about it. They are our south county emergency responders! With all the money that floats around here, treat em right!
Firefighter is a life not a job. Give them a break. It is the people not the equipment that makes the fire service what it is. I am sure they will work just as hard to save your house from a fire, or tend the injured at an accident without a bonus! They are wired that way. But, give em the crumby 200 bucks and don't whine about it. They are our south county emergency responders! With all the money that floats around here, treat em right!
SWGB
Re: South Walton Fire Board
Personally I'd like to see them get the money. IMHO $200.00 is a really cheap way of saying "Thanks for protecting my life and property". That's just my $.02.
Personally I'd like to see them get the money. IMHO $200.00 is a really cheap way of saying "Thanks for protecting my life and property". That's just my $.02.
Beach LoverAuthor
Re: South Walton Fire Board
Why don't you write them the check on your personal account.
Why don't you write them the check on your personal account.
Beach Lover
Re: South Walton Fire Board
Maybe we should consider that $200 down to $100 is reasonable and that $100 is like $25 dollars in Wiley Coyote's day. I say take care of those who take care of us! Didn't SOWAL fire district lower our millage rate lower this year?
Maybe we should consider that $200 down to $100 is reasonable and that $100 is like $25 dollars in Wiley Coyote's day. I say take care of those who take care of us! Didn't SOWAL fire district lower our millage rate lower this year?
Beach LoverAuthor
Re: South Walton Fire Board
I think about it this way. It was $25 up to $100.
Just a 400% increase.
I think about it this way. It was $25 up to $100.
Just a 400% increase.
SoWal Expert
Re: South Walton Fire Board
I'm guessing that you would also be of the mind to think that giving a 3% increase in salary to someone making only $6 per hour is a great, too, even though it comes to a whopping 18 cents prior to it being taxed. "Yippie! I got a raise!" are not the words you would hear coming from that employee's mouth. You would probably also be ecstatic about getting a discount of 50% when buying a 3-cent peice of gum. Sometimes, you have to look past the percentage or the dollar amount and use some common sense.
If you are so upset about the $20,000, perhaps you should see the County financial statements, which show a lousy return of about 3% on $80 million. Correct that, and maybe every Walton County taxpayer could get a Christmas bonus of $200 without the County being any worse.
I think about it this way. It was $25 up to $100.
Just a 400% increase.
I'm guessing that you would also be of the mind to think that giving a 3% increase in salary to someone making only $6 per hour is a great, too, even though it comes to a whopping 18 cents prior to it being taxed. "Yippie! I got a raise!" are not the words you would hear coming from that employee's mouth. You would probably also be ecstatic about getting a discount of 50% when buying a 3-cent peice of gum. Sometimes, you have to look past the percentage or the dollar amount and use some common sense.
If you are so upset about the $20,000, perhaps you should see the County financial statements, which show a lousy return of about 3% on $80 million. Correct that, and maybe every Walton County taxpayer could get a Christmas bonus of $200 without the County being any worse.
Edited
Beach Fanatic
Re: South Walton Fire Board
Joe/Wiley,
I have been in Emergency Medical Services for over 30 years and I'm very familiar with several of the FF/Medics in South Walton. They are required to go through an equivilent of an AD to get their FF and Paramedic cert. This doesn't include the countless hours that they are required just to maintain their certs. South Walton has some of the best FF/Paramedics in the Panhandle....we don't think about that until you need them... The salary they make isn't enough for them to even live in the area that they protect! Most have second or third jobs to survive.
Some would say that the amount of the recommended bonus is excessive to what they received in the past and I would agree, BUT what they have received in the past is pathetic!
We should welcome the bonus and to HELL with these "concerned taxpayers"...who we shouldn't care about on this issue.
Does the position of fire fighter/PM in SoWal require any previous training, certification, and or experience? Just wondering how much training other positions require.
Also, I am wondering where a FF married to a stay at home parent, having two kids, would live in SoWal if they tried to buy a home today. Not many trailers left to chose from, today.
Joe/Wiley,
I have been in Emergency Medical Services for over 30 years and I'm very familiar with several of the FF/Medics in South Walton. They are required to go through an equivilent of an AD to get their FF and Paramedic cert. This doesn't include the countless hours that they are required just to maintain their certs. South Walton has some of the best FF/Paramedics in the Panhandle....we don't think about that until you need them... The salary they make isn't enough for them to even live in the area that they protect! Most have second or third jobs to survive.
Some would say that the amount of the recommended bonus is excessive to what they received in the past and I would agree, BUT what they have received in the past is pathetic!
We should welcome the bonus and to HELL with these "concerned taxpayers"...who we shouldn't care about on this issue.
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