Mass Transit

I'm just curious as to why there isn't any mass transit on 30A? Like a bus or some other form.

I thought someone tried that last year or the year before and it failed due to a lack of economic interest.

Really? I don't remember anything like that.

Really? I don't remember anything like that.

This is where the DeFuniak Herald would come in handy, if it was online, so I could search it. I will ask around and see if I can find some details. I believe the guy even approached the BCC and the TDC for supplemental funding, the whole thing was to relieve traffic on 30-A.

So it was a funding issue?

So it was a funding issue?

If I remember it was a poor economic model issue. The only way it would pay would be with government subsidies. So the case would have had to be made that subsidizing this private entity was more cost effective then solving the traffic problem.

Maybe that is when they just ordered another consultant study to see about the problem. And of course now it is worse.

I found the following in a Feb 22, 2000 meeting. I guess this Spencer has some sort of a franchise in sowal for this service.



Attorney Mike Chesser, representing Mr. Gary Spencer and the Grayton Trolley Franchise, appeared before the Board and explained Amendment I to the franchise. Mr. Chesser read the franchise terms which stated the expiration of the first term of the franchise is amended to April, 2010, thereafter, the term will be extended for a minimum term of two additional ten year renewals, unless evidence is provided that the franchise should not be extended. Attorney Miller stated that a public hearing will be held before each renewal is granted, advising that it is not an automatic renewal.

Hmm, even if it was a private enterprise I would be leary if the franchise can be dropped by the BCC.

One hurdle to jump with a mass transit in SoWal is the issue of wet, sandy seats.

The County has been avoiding this problem for a long time, and it will be one of those, oops when they realize the problem should have been addressed five years before they actually do something about it.

agreed SJ, this is a county issue, and needs to be addressed now. with less parking and less beach available every day, the county needs to institute a 30a shuttle service. it's that simple.

agreed SJ, this is a county issue, and needs to be addressed now. with less parking and less beach available every day, the county needs to institute a 30a shuttle service. it's that simple.

Once the TDC finishes installing the balance of the blue signs, maybe they can turn their efforts toward a shuttle service. That is certainly something the TDC tax ought to be able to subsidize.

Once the TDC finishes installing the balance of the blue signs, maybe they can turn their efforts toward a shuttle service. That is certainly something the TDC tax ought to be able to subsidize.

wait, you heard it here first. the blue signs are the bus stops. ;-)

It might have been the summer of 2000, or 2001
Anyway, a trolley service was tried on 30A and it did not catch on. There were some problems with the schedules and the route, but I have forgotten the details. I think part of the problem was you could not just get on and off where you wanted to, like the closest beach access for your place might not have been on the list of stops. It was not financially profitable, but mass transit rarely is.
The problem with just running it up and down 30A is, well, who would use it? Maybe tourists, if they knew about it and got used to it, but they come and go so quickly. Maybe a few locals for shopping? But not folks needing transportation to work, because it didn't connect with anything, like a non-existent way to get to Freeport for instance.
For people just needing transportation to the beach, it would have to be more flexible in where it would pick people up and where it would stop. More like an informal shuttle you could just wave down maybe?

in 2000 and 2001, there weren't enough people here to warrant a trolley system, and people won't carry cash for the trolley. It would have to be paid for by gov't. Predetermined routes and stops are easy enough to handle. Bike racks would be needed to, so that people could ride from Pt Washington or Town of Santa Rosa, etc, and ride to 30A, then catch the trolley to Alys Beach for trivia night.

agreed SJ, this is a county issue, and needs to be addressed now. with less parking and less beach available every day, the county needs to institute a 30a shuttle service. it's that simple.

Yes, the 30A Trolley should have route markers at the various Beaches of S W with stops stop at certain walkovers/retail location--- would that not help out with both traffic congestion and help the struggling retailers? Plus I think that kind of mass transit is fitting over a large GMC bus--and it should use bio fuels--that would be fitting for 30A.

My only fear is what the Trolley stop location signs would look like on 30A!!!

Right SJ - still not enough people to make it work, especially in the off season, it would have to be seasonal and subsidized. The folks who visit here all want their vehicles nearby. But if there are traffic jams and no parking then it will need to be done. The proposed trolley was to be partially supported by advertising. you can still see a couple of benches with signs on them here and there. Iit was way ahead of its time and was doomed from the start.

On a related note, their may be an opportunity for an in-season "tour trolley" that went from one end of Scenic 30A to the other with designated stops and narration/entertainment.

Based on my experiences with public transportation, I think a 30-A/Sowal system would be hard to make work just because of how spread out things are/the hot weather.

I absolutely LOVE public transportation ........... until I need groceries, have to wait in the heat, or walk along a road w/o a sidewalk to continue to my destination.

A seasonal shuttle from tourist hubs would be a more realistic/funn way to move people around, but I don't know if most people would utilize them beyond drunk taxis, bored teenagers, and special events.

If there was a 30-A shuttle I'd definitely use it to go from Seagrove to events in Rosemary, Grayton, Alys Beach, Redfish Village, Blue Mountain, Gulf Place, Watercolor, Sandestin etc. but I am not the typical user/driver, as I drive less than 10K a year and prefer to ride/bike rather than drive at any opportunity.

I haven't been back in a while, but when I saw this thread I had to comment! Being a New Yorker, I'm not really a driver and always prefered to get around by foot or public transport.

I've been putting a "98 Tram" into the subconciousness of my friends here for along time. Everytime we plan to go out, I say, "Oh, let's take the tram!".

I actually spoke with some people at the TDC & Great Northwest Development group about it, but they looked at me like I had three heads and said public transport wasn't an option here.

Here's the vision: a tram that runs from Ft. Walton to Panama City on 98, will eliminate heavy summer traffic and be more environmentally sound and help prevent drunk driving, traffic lights at every intersection will ensure fewer accidents , free (and cheap) tram cars to restore are available through non-profits, will be a great tourist attraction

Thoughts?

Here's the vision: a tram that runs from Ft. Walton to Panama City on 98, will eliminate heavy summer traffic and be more environmentally sound and help prevent drunk driving, traffic lights at every intersection will ensure fewer accidents , free (and cheap) tram cars to restore are available through non-profits, will be a great tourist attraction

Thoughts?

Traffic lights at every intersection will not work. Traffic lights cause the available trip counts to plummet. This forces a substantial increase in proportional fair share or development to stop. I know that would make a lot of people happy, but since it is not going to happen, you need to focus on a worthwhile solution. To get around the proportional fair share you will then start seeing an influx of side roades being upgraded, interconnected driveways, things of that nature. No one will use them, but they will be used to allow even more traffic on the main road and with all the lights congestion will get even worse.

I had an engineer tell me one day as we were stuck in traffic, that people pay him to show scientific proof that the traffic actually did not exist. This then allowed them to put in more businesses further exacerbating the problem. I think he plans on moving after it gets where you can not drive from Destin to Silver Sands.

Here's the vision: a tram that runs from Ft. Walton to Panama City on 98, will eliminate heavy summer traffic and be more environmentally sound and help prevent drunk driving, traffic lights at every intersection will ensure fewer accidents , free (and cheap) tram cars to restore are available through non-profits, will be a great tourist attraction

Thoughts?

I know of no one in the Santa Rosa Beach area who wants a tram to get us to Ft Walton or PC, nor do I think that people in SoWal want day trippers tramming over to SoWal from Ft Walton and PC on a daily basis. To do such a run, and make it work where people would use it, I think you would need to have at least 10-15 buses operating at any given time. Walton County Commissioners certainly don't want tax money going to Bay or Okaloosa Counties when they could keep the tax revenues here. Even running an effective tram in SoWal only, I think at least 6 buses would have to be running most of the day.

I think it could be a great idea if executed properly, but one of the issues I wonder about is the narrowness of 30A. Would there be enough spots to create a shoulder for the buses to pull over to? Otherwise you would have the bus stopping traffic every time it made a stop, and that would be extremely annoying. Also, how cooperative would Rosemary, Seaside, WaterColor etc. be, given the private/public beach issues that have come up lately?

In the city of Bar Harbor, Maine, they provide free bus service that makes it way around all the hotels/inns, downtown and through the National Park. I believe the service is paid for by tourist and hotel taxes--it's a great system!

Seattle has free bus service in the downtown metro area up until 7pm (after which, they roll up the streets)--you pay extra if you want to stay on and ride outside the "free" area, i.e., to the airport. I'm sure it's paid for with a mix of taxes since it provides service to the locals as well as the tourists.

Having said that, I don't think a 30a bus service is feasible due to cost, heat, traffic, wet/sandy seats and people wanting to haul the beach tent/chairs/rafts/coolers/umbrellas/blankets/towels/monster plastic shovels, etc, etc, etc.

.

I think it could be a great idea if executed properly, but one of the issues I wonder about is the narrowness of 30A. Would there be enough spots to create a shoulder for the buses to pull over to? Otherwise you would have the bus stopping traffic every time it made a stop, and that would be extremely annoying. Also, how cooperative would Rosemary, Seaside, WaterColor etc. be, given the private/public beach issues that have come up lately?

I should have clarified. A tram is traditionally a railborne vehicle. I would propose one that runs on an electric railway on the highway median, which is ideal and economical for the area since there is only one major thoroughfare. Will resorts be cooperative? If they need tourism maybe.


some trams

we don't live in a city and we don't live in an amusement park. i think the shuttle is a far fetched dream.

I should have clarified. A tram is traditionally a railborne vehicle. I would propose one that runs on an electric railway on the highway median, which is ideal and economical for the area since there is only one major thoroughfare. Will resorts be cooperative? If they need tourism maybe.


some trams

This requires a median which 30A has only less than 1% of.

I should have clarified. A tram is traditionally a railborne vehicle. I would propose one that runs on an electric railway on the highway median, which is ideal and economical for the area since there is only one major thoroughfare. Will resorts be cooperative? If they need tourism maybe.


some trams

I think LRT would be an excellent idea for the tri county area. They have the same system in Portland ,Oregon and it is a huge hit not to mention that it is heavily used and exquisitely on time.
It's a pity SJ has his head up his proverbial 30-A a$$. The world does not revolve around Santa Rosa beach and it would be nice to reduce ones carbon footprint and still have the facility of commuting to the more densely populated areas.
I say a red line from Ft walton to PFN and a blue line that goes down 30-A with a transit station at Inlet beach. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transportation_in_Portland,_Oregon#MAX_Light_Rail

[FONT=Arial,Helvetica,Geneva,Swiss,SunSans-Regular][FONT=Arial,Helvetica,Geneva,Swiss,SunSans-Regular][FONT=Arial,Helvetica,Geneva,Swiss,SunSans-Regular][FONT=Arial,Helvetica,Geneva,Swiss,SunSans-Regular][FONT=Arial,Helvetica,Geneva,Swiss,SunSans-Regular][FONT=Arial,Helvetica,Geneva,Swiss,SunSans-Regular][FONT=Arial,Helvetica,Geneva,Swiss,SunSans-Regular][FONT=Arial,Helvetica,Geneva,Swiss,SunSans-Regular][FONT=Arial,Helvetica,Geneva,Swiss,SunSans-Regular][FONT=Arial,Helvetica,Geneva,Swiss,SunSans-Regular][FONT=Arial,Helvetica,Geneva,Swiss,SunSans-Regular][FONT=Arial,Helvetica,Geneva,Swiss,SunSans-Regular][FONT=Arial,Helvetica,Geneva,Swiss,SunSans-Regular][FONT=Arial,Helvetica,Geneva,Swiss,SunSans-Regular][FONT=Arial,Helvetica,Geneva,Swiss,SunSans-Regular] 26 April 2007
[/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT] [FONT=Arial,Helvetica,Geneva,Swiss,SunSans-Regular][FONT=Arial,Helvetica,Geneva,Swiss,SunSans-Regular][FONT=Arial,Helvetica,Geneva,Swiss,SunSans-Regular][FONT=Arial,Helvetica,Geneva,Swiss,SunSans-Regular][FONT=Arial,Helvetica,Geneva,Swiss,SunSans-Regular][FONT=Arial,Helvetica,Geneva,Swiss,SunSans-Regular][FONT=Arial,Helvetica,Geneva,Swiss,SunSans-Regular][FONT=Arial,Helvetica,Geneva,Swiss,SunSans-Regular][FONT=Arial,Helvetica,Geneva,Swiss,SunSans-Regular][FONT=Arial,Helvetica,Geneva,Swiss,SunSans-Regular][FONT=Arial,Helvetica,Geneva,Swiss,SunSans-Regular][FONT=Arial,Helvetica,Geneva,Swiss,SunSans-Regular][FONT=Arial,Helvetica,Geneva,Swiss,SunSans-Regular][FONT=Arial,Helvetica,Geneva,Swiss,SunSans-Regular][FONT=Arial,Helvetica,Geneva,Swiss,SunSans-Regular]Portland:
MAX light rail ridership jumps to 104,200 average weekday trips [/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=Arial,Helvetica,Geneva,Swiss,SunSans-Regular][FONT=Arial,Helvetica,Geneva,Swiss,SunSans-Regular][FONT=Arial,Helvetica,Geneva,Swiss,SunSans-Regular][FONT=Arial,Helvetica,Geneva,Swiss,SunSans-Regular][FONT=Arial,Helvetica,Geneva,Swiss,SunSans-Regular][FONT=Arial,Helvetica,Geneva,Swiss,SunSans-Regular][FONT=Arial,Helvetica,Geneva,Swiss,SunSans-Regular][FONT=Arial,Helvetica,Geneva,Swiss,SunSans-Regular][FONT=Arial,Helvetica,Geneva,Swiss,SunSans-Regular][FONT=Arial,Helvetica,Geneva,Swiss,SunSans-Regular][FONT=Arial,Helvetica,Geneva,Swiss,SunSans-Regular][FONT=Arial,Helvetica,Geneva,Swiss,SunSans-Regular][FONT=Arial,Helvetica,Geneva,Swiss,SunSans-Regular][FONT=Arial,Helvetica,Geneva,Swiss,SunSans-Regular][FONT=Arial,Helvetica,Geneva,Swiss,SunSans-Regular]Portland, Oregon's renowned MAX light rail transit (LRT) system continues to score more ridership records. In the most recent count released by TriMet, the transit agency, for March 2007, MAX's average weekday ridership reached 104,200 rider-trips (boardings). The breakdown was 66,300 on the Blue Line, 25,700 on the Red Line, and 12,200 on the Yellow Line. [/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=Arial,Helvetica,Geneva,Swiss,SunSans-Regular][FONT=Arial,Helvetica,Geneva,Swiss,SunSans-Regular][FONT=Arial,Helvetica,Geneva,Swiss,SunSans-Regular][FONT=Arial,Helvetica,Geneva,Swiss,SunSans-Regular][FONT=Arial,Helvetica,Geneva,Swiss,SunSans-Regular][FONT=Arial,Helvetica,Geneva,Swiss,SunSans-Regular][FONT=Arial,Helvetica,Geneva,Swiss,SunSans-Regular][FONT=Arial,Helvetica,Geneva,Swiss,SunSans-Regular][FONT=Arial,Helvetica,Geneva,Swiss,SunSans-Regular][FONT=Arial,Helvetica,Geneva,Swiss,SunSans-Regular][FONT=Arial,Helvetica,Geneva,Swiss,SunSans-Regular][FONT=Arial,Helvetica,Geneva,Swiss,SunSans-Regular][FONT=Arial,Helvetica,Geneva,Swiss,SunSans-Regular][FONT=Arial,Helvetica,Geneva,Swiss,SunSans-Regular][FONT=Arial,Helvetica,Geneva,Swiss,SunSans-Regular]Average weekend ridership reached 78,900 on Saturdays, and 61,600 on Sundays. [/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=Arial,Helvetica,Geneva,Swiss,SunSans-Regular][FONT=Arial,Helvetica,Geneva,Swiss,SunSans-Regular][FONT=Arial,Helvetica,Geneva,Swiss,SunSans-Regular][FONT=Arial,Helvetica,Geneva,Swiss,SunSans-Regular][FONT=Arial,Helvetica,Geneva,Swiss,SunSans-Regular][FONT=Arial,Helvetica,Geneva,Swiss,SunSans-Regular][FONT=Arial,Helvetica,Geneva,Swiss,SunSans-Regular][FONT=Arial,Helvetica,Geneva,Swiss,SunSans-Regular][FONT=Arial,Helvetica,Geneva,Swiss,SunSans-Regular][FONT=Arial,Helvetica,Geneva,Swiss,SunSans-Regular][FONT=Arial,Helvetica,Geneva,Swiss,SunSans-Regular][FONT=Arial,Helvetica,Geneva,Swiss,SunSans-Regular][FONT=Arial,Helvetica,Geneva,Swiss,SunSans-Regular][FONT=Arial,Helvetica,Geneva,Swiss,SunSans-Regular][FONT=Arial,Helvetica,Geneva,Swiss,SunSans-Regular]For TriMet's total transit system as a whole (bus + rail), average weekday fixed route boardings reached 310,500. Overall, TriMet's March 2007 ridership was up 2.9% over March 2006. [/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT]
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