Seawalls

I did misspeak a bit above. I don't really believe you should pay to fix an undermined neighbor's house, especially if you are following the rule of law, but I agree that all of ecopal's concerns are valid, as to what will or may happen during the next major storm. Seawalls/retaining walls are very likely to affect neighboring structures without them in a negative way, based on all the evidence, though I guess in your case everyone around you is armored this may not apply to you specifically.

I'm not an argumentative person. I'm just lamenting. And by the way, in "eminent domain," gulf front owners would not have a choice. It's defined as "expropriation of private property without the owner's consent" in return for "just compensation." As ecopal says it is risky to own gulf front. We have all seen it in the past couple of years. To protect the entire area some people just might have to lose their property, again on an as-needed basis.

Look, I never said EChoEChoPal's concerns were invalid. I never said that owning gulf front was not risky. I never said that retaining walls would not affect unprotected neighboring strutures in a negative way.

I will say this AGAIN... it IS my right to construct the retaining wall on my land to protect my structure with my money as permitted by DEP and OUR government. It's that simple.

If one disagrees, take it up with the county, state and feds. I'm not a government official representing my constituents here on the forum (although I might have found my calling) .

All this personal attack stuff is a really a waste of time for everyone. BTW, nobody ever accused me of ALWAYS using my time wisely - especially lately here on this thread.

Somehow, a few misguided posters seem to think that because of their "half-baked" posts, that I am going to go outside, dismantle the wall, haul it off, and just sit there and wait for the next hurricane to take my remaining land and home away. As much as some would like that, well....I'd rather just sip a mai-tai instead.

By the way, I don't think you misspoke regarding potential litigation developing as a result of "increased" erosion on neighboring properties. I imagine there will be cases as a result even if one is permitted to have a retaining wall. BUT (and a big BUT at that), as long as litigation takes, these exposed properties would become severely eroded anyway based on fact (Dennis took 20 feet from us) before a decision would be reached by a judge.

You see, I have just about agreed with all the concerns discussed on this thread. But my wall is staying, none the less.

Let me ask you this.... I have (more than once) tried to point out a difference between the "bluffs" in our area that have been carved way past the point of any protective white sand dunes that might have existed. This compared with, let's say, Navarre Beach or Panama City Beach. Do you think both geological situations warrant the same consideration when it comes to retaining walls?

Best Regards.

If beach front owners (or any of the rest of us for that matter) lose their home as many Katrina victims did, FEMA will relocate them/us to a nice FEMA trailer village. Or if you are really lucky you might get to go to the Houston Astro dome which is personally recommended by Barbara Bush.

Also, why would the government buy beach front property that has been washed out to sea? Flood insurance does not cover the land your dwelling sits on. If they did it would be considered as distressed and blighted property and no beach front owner should expect the government to give them the property value of when it was a viable property.

In New Orleans eminent domain maybe used to take buildable land from owners at a fair price for the common good. How is it in the common good to give a beach front owner full pre-hurricane property value to a lot that is no longer there?

" Flood insurance does not cover the land your dwelling sits on."

Dude....Time to STOP taking Ex-lax !!!

Then SHELLY shares some pictures with us from Navarre Beach showing how a house that we assume is built after 1985 has indeed collapsed. Then I showed her where there were other houses adjacent to this one that were much much larger, actually survive. It was just that picking one "example" (house that failed in her picture) and then saying it's the norm is not fair in any arguement.

There were others that collapsed after Ivan (yes they were built after 1985) and more after Dennis. That one "survived" both and collapsed later. Here's one they believe will be next: Post 1985 Home on Pilings

What kind of damage do you think a Cat 3-4 would do to our area if it wasn't 60 - 250 miles away? We've only been "kissed" by Opal and the others that followed.

I walked Navarre beach right after Hurricane Ivan and saw rebar twisted like spaghetti and pilings snapped like twigs. Those who believe there are products that can hold up to the fury of Mother Nature will be proven wrong. If she can't knock it down (doubtful)...she'll just take her beach and go elsewhere.

The Walton Sun report says: ?Attorney Gary Shipman, who represents some beach front property owners, believes there should be more investigation into other options, including the county applying for a permit that would cover the entire shoreline. As it stands, the county is only looking to permit existing armoring structures. ??I think there should be more discussion on why they aren?t discussing a blanket plan,? he said. ?

My concern: Is this a thinly veiled clever attempt to get the the county to pay for the environmental mitigation needed as a result of the seawall?s take from the beach and habitat?

My guess is that the seawall owners are trying to push their big expensive problem on the county. Hope the county doesn?t fall for it.

Please consider contacting the County commissioners to tell them you do not want tax dollars used to subsidize seawall take and mitigation problems.

Commissioner Scott Brannon
Tel: (850) 835-4860
Fax: (850) 835-4836
E-mail:* brascott@co.walton.fl.us

Commissioner Kenneth Pridgen *
Phone: (850) 834-6328
Fax: (850) 834-6385
Email: prikenneth@co.walton.fl.us

Commmissioner Larry Jones
Donna Walsinkham, District 3*Executive Assistant
Phone: (850) 892-8474
Fax: (850)892-8475
e-mail: jonlarry@co.walton.fl.us

Commissioner Ro Cuchens
(850) 835-4834.

Commissioner Cindy Meadows
Santa Rosa Beach, FL. 32459
Phone: (850) 622-3059
Fax: (850) 622-3067
e-mail:* meacindy@co.walton.fl.us

"I will say this AGAIN... it IS my right to construct the retaining wall on my land to protect my structure with my money as permitted by DEP and OUR government. It's that simple." BMBV

Can I surmise from this statement you would do something that is harmful just because it's legal?

When our bayfront home was built in 1900, I'm guessing there were no federal or local agencies telling people where they could build. There was no federal flood insurance to bail them out. Instead people used common sense and built two or three hundred feet from the water and at the highest elevation they could find.

They'll have to pry my seawall from my cold, dead hands.

I'll just assume you're an attorney and the answer is yes.

Look, I never said EChoEChoPal's concerns were invalid. I never said that owning gulf front was not risky. I never said that retaining walls would not affect unprotected neighboring strutures in a negative way.

I will say this AGAIN... it IS my right to construct the retaining wall on my land to protect my structure with my money as permitted by DEP and OUR government. It's that simple.

Best Regards.

Ya know BMBV, you are absolutely correct.

It's been my contention for quite some time (and more so over the last couple years) that all this over development, and the resulting RE money grab, pretty much ruined the area and the beaches anyway.

There was a time not so long ago when I was quite gung-ho about preserving the area's turtle habitat; taking up the cause against over-development and off-shore drilling; and walking the beaches with trash bag in hand picking up litter. The turtles are pretty much history (a couple have been killed during the beach renourishment activities out west); I still pick up litter, but there is SO MUCH MORE now; and most disturbing to me--I couldn't give a rat's rectum if they drilled for oil 20-feet offshore from Seaside.

So go ahead and build as many seawalls, condos and shopping centers as the law allows and why not throw in drilling for oil too.

When it's all said and done, I think once the walls are built and the sand is pumped in and looks as close to "normal" as possible (if Mother Nature is so kind), the owners won't be able to slap "For Sale" signs on those gulffront properties fast enough.

Ya know BMBV, you are absolutely correct.

It's been my contention for quite some time (and more so over the last couple years) that all this over development, and the resulting RE money grab, pretty much ruined the area and the beaches anyway.

There was a time not so long ago when I was quite gung-ho about preserving the area's turtle habitat; taking up the cause against over-development and off-shore drilling; and walking the beaches with trash bag in hand picking up litter. The turtles are pretty much history (a couple have been killed during the beach renourishment activities out west); I still pick up litter, but there is SO MUCH MORE now; and most disturbing to me--I couldn't give a rat's rectum if they drilled for oil 20-feet offshore from Seaside.

So go ahead and build as many seawalls, condos and shopping centers as the law allows and why not throw in drilling for oil too.

When it's all said and done, I think once the walls are built and the sand is pumped in and looks as close to "normal" as possible (if Mother Nature is so kind), the owners won't be able to slap "For Sale" signs on those gulffront properties fast enough.

Shelly I didn't realize you used to have a heart. Thanks for still picking up some trash - you're right it is hard to keep up. I am sorry that you have given up and are so bitter. Believe it or not I am a realist, but from a perspective of yin and yang I am not so bitter, but also I will not stand in front of the tank.

I think I understand a little better why you hate so deeply those that would profit, including the seawall builders who will say or do anything to justify their actions in a vain attempt to scrub their consciences.

There were others that collapsed after Ivan (yes they were built after 1985) and more after Dennis. That one "survived" both and collapsed later. Here's one they believe will be next: Post 1985 Home on Pilings

What kind of damage do you think a Cat 3-4 would do to our area if it wasn't 60 - 250 miles away? We've only been "kissed" by Opal and the others that followed.

I walked Navarre beach right after Hurricane Ivan and saw rebar twisted like spaghetti and pilings snapped like twigs. Those who believe there are products that can hold up to the fury of Mother Nature will be proven wrong. If she can't knock it down (doubtful)...she'll just take her beach and go elsewhere.

I'm a little confused as to what you and I are discussing - honestly....

Are you questioning (in general) whether a home built after 1985 will collapse if subjected to just erosion (which I think started our little dialog)?

OR are you questioning whether a home built after 1985 will collapse if subjected to erosion and storm surge and wave action as I suspect happened in Navarre?

OR are you questioning whether a home built after 1985 will collapse if subjected to erosion and storm surge and wave action AND cat 4 winds?

Let's summarize our little dialog:
1. ECHOECHO asked if I was going to pay for my neighbor's house if it were damaged due to increased erosion (again EROSION) caused by my retaining wall.
2. I responded by saying a house that was built after 1985 is built on pilings and "supposedly" is designed to survive erosion (again EROSION). I sight examples of homes that show this.
3. Then you showed some interesting and scary pictures of Navarre beach of collapsed houses built after 1985.
4. I then qualified those pictures by saying that the elevation at Navarre Beach is SIGNIFICANTLY LOWER than Blue Mountain Beach and that perhaps the house could have been subjected to storm surge and wave action as opposed to just erosion alone.
5. Then you say...
"There were others that collapsed after Ivan (yes they were built after 1985) and more after Dennis. What kind of damage do you think a Cat 3-4 would do to our area if it wasn't 60 - 250 miles away? We've only been "kissed" by Opal and the others that followed.

I walked Navarre beach right after Hurricane Ivan and saw rebar twisted like spaghetti and pilings snapped like twigs. Those who believe there are products that can hold up to the fury of Mother Nature will be proven wrong. If she can't knock it down (doubtful)...she'll just take her beach and go elsewhere."

Now, what does the above have to do with item # 2 listed above?

I don't deny the "fury of Mother Nature". I don't deny that Navarre got their teeth kicked out. I don't deny ANY of your statements made above.

What I sense from your post, is that maybe you believe our retaining wall will not survive a Cat 3 or 4 since retaining walls are still the subject of this thread.
Is this correct?

To answer your question, retaining wall or not, my home will be greatly damaged by a direct category 3 and probably totally destroyed by a category 4 hurricane. Either way, our wall, but NOT all walls will still be standing (in my very humble opinion...yes humble).

Bottom line, I will not lose my home to a puny category 2 hurricane now that we have a retaining wall. A cat 2 hurricane in our area will cause significantly more destruction because of continued erosion of our bluff than it would if it hit Navarre Beach where few, if any, homes are built on slab. MANY homes in our 20 mile stretch are built on slab because of our high elevation. There in lies the blessing (elevation) and curse (slab construction).

I respect mother nature... I really do. That's why OUR wall is over engineered by at least 50% worse case hydrostatic loads.

A lesson for retaining wall neophtyes... the walls that failed did so NOT because of battering waves or high winds or the east-west current. They failed because of the tremendous loads behind the wall that exist when the sand behind the wall becomes soaked and the sand in front is removed (no support from the front side). If the anchoring system is not designed properly to handle this worse case load, the wall doesn't stand a chance regardless of material used. I took several photos of walls that failed and documented the failed anchoring systems.

Shelly, I'm growing a bit weary of all this as I've tried to "educate" the naysayers about retaining walls. I promise you that I have been much closer to this situation than many others (as if you couldn't tell )

But like religion and abortion, no one seems to win in debating the retaining wall issue, ESPECIALLY between gulf front owners and non-gulf front owners...plain and simple.

So here's "praying" ;-) for a reprieve from hurricanes this year and many more.

Does anyone have a problem with that?

"I will say this AGAIN... it IS my right to construct the retaining wall on my land to protect my structure with my money as permitted by DEP and OUR government. It's that simple." BMBV

Can I surmise from this statement you would do something that is harmful just because it's legal?

When our bayfront home was built in 1900, I'm guessing there were no federal or local agencies telling people where they could build. There was no federal flood insurance to bail them out. Instead people used common sense and built two or three hundred feet from the water and at the highest elevation they could find.

They'll have to pry my seawall from my cold, dead hands.

Yes, I will do everything I can that is harmful as long as it's legal....or is it...I will do everything that's not harmful that's illegal. I do understand your point but in the words I've used before..."You're reaching here." Not even a good try.

Fiduciary responsibility dictates that I must protect my home. What I do know is that it is legal to install retaining wall. What I don't know is how harmful the wall will be. If it is harmful, then I will be one of the first to suffer. Some of you can take comfort in that.

Regarding your bayfront home.... good for you.

BTW, I own a bay front lot that I will begin construction this year. I plan to build over the water and put up a 30 foot retaining wall. Are you my neighbor over there? Don't tell me if you are. I'd rather stay friends!!

Oh yea, no barage of posts saying "oooohhh so you're building the wall then skipping town to the bay" kind of stuff.

I'll just assume you're an attorney and the answer is yes.

Now you're really pissing me off!!! :funn:

Ya know BMBV, you are absolutely correct.

It's been my contention for quite some time (and more so over the last couple years) that all this over development, and the resulting RE money grab, pretty much ruined the area and the beaches anyway.

There was a time not so long ago when I was quite gung-ho about preserving the area's turtle habitat; taking up the cause against over-development and off-shore drilling; and walking the beaches with trash bag in hand picking up litter. The turtles are pretty much history (a couple have been killed during the beach renourishment activities out west); I still pick up litter, but there is SO MUCH MORE now; and most disturbing to me--I couldn't give a rat's rectum if they drilled for oil 20-feet offshore from Seaside.

So go ahead and build as many seawalls, condos and shopping centers as the law allows and why not throw in drilling for oil too.

When it's all said and done, I think once the walls are built and the sand is pumped in and looks as close to "normal" as possible (if Mother Nature is so kind), the owners won't be able to slap "For Sale" signs on those gulffront properties fast enough.

When I responded to your previous post, I didn't realize you posted the above. Shelly, Zoloft works really well. Something wound you up and let you go. You are all over the place.

I thought we had a reasonable dialog going.

BUT.....It is painfully obvious that you are NOW personally using ME as punching bag for ALL the SINS in this world of ours. Sorry you see me as the root of all evil.

Okay, don't bite....I have a layman's question and I really am trying to uinderstand. I have seen Galveston over the years (raised in Houston). It was my understanding that some GF property owners had "lost" their land to Mother Nature. How did that play out as far as E. Domain (couldn't abbreviate that one!).

Also, please explain who decides where to build on the dune and what agency should review plans and oversee where these homes/condos are built. I'm wanting to understand if everyone with GF property had the same set of rules and if some ignored them in order to enhance the view from their houses. I also am coming to the understanding that GF owners "own" the dunes and the property to the "high water mark". As has been stated before, I know there was panic to save houses, but still can't understand that almost a year later there is not a "standard" fix to this problem.

I have no idea what I would be doing in this situation. That said, these experiences have certainly changed my "dream" of ever owning/building gulf front. I guess I can say thanks...saved me a bunch of money!

Vagrant - there is a winner in the seawall debate and it is nature. If you think you can build something that nature can't destroy then you have already lost.

BMBV, I've followed this thread with interest from both being an owner down there (non-GF) and from a technical side. You piqued my curiosity when you said your wall was designed for 1.5 times the hydrostatic forces. I've been interested in this since first seeing these retaining walls being constructed. What hydrodynamic design parameters are used by the engineers designing these walls?

BMBV, I've followed this thread with interest from both being an owner down there (non-GF) and from a technical side. You piqued my curiosity when you said your wall was designed for 1.5 times the hydrostatic forces. I've been interested in this since first seeing these retaining walls being constructed. What hydrodynamic design parameters are used by the engineers designing these walls?

In most cases, the designs are probably Ro Cuchens' field workers'.

Vagrant - there is a winner in the seawall debate and it is nature. If you think you can build something that nature can't destroy then you have already lost.

Hey Simple Simon,

Go tell that to the millions of home owners along the Gulf and Atlantic coastal communities. I have to assume you're a LOSER as well assuming you own property down here.

You know, if some of you people really put some thought in your posts, you might actually come up with something!!

In most cases, the designs are probably Ro Cuchens' field workers'.

Now that really made me laugh out loud!!

Thank you !!!!

BMBV, I've followed this thread with interest from both being an owner down there (non-GF) and from a technical side. You piqued my curiosity when you said your wall was designed for 1.5 times the hydrostatic forces. I've been interested in this since first seeing these retaining walls being constructed. What hydrodynamic design parameters are used by the engineers designing these walls?

I'd suggest contacting NORTHSTAR (manufacturer of the wall material). Their home office is located in Kennesaw. Their website is http://www.northstarvinyl.com/

They actually designed the field installation drawings for our wall and most others down here that used their product. I leave the nitty gritty details of hydrodynamic forces in their hands and our loal engineer's hands as admittedly, I wouldn't know where to start calculating hydrodynamic forces. Hydrostatic is MUCH simpler (in its worse case scenario).

If you're from Atlanta (which it appears), like I am, then you might appreciate the fact the Northstar composite sheet wall product was engineered at Georgia Tech.

Take a look. Hope that will answer your question. Glad to see that someone out here even understands the difference between hyrostatic and hydrodynamic forces.

Thanks for the post.

When I responded to your previous post, I didn't realize you posted the above. Shelly, Zoloft works really well. Something wound you up and let you go. You are all over the place.

I thought we had a reasonable dialog going.

BUT.....It is painfully obvious that you are NOW personally using ME as punching bag for ALL the SINS in this world of ours. Sorry you see me as the root of all evil.

Geez...and I even admitted you were absolutely correct (Which, as my scores of fans will readily admit, is quite a stretch for me).

Maybe it was the part about slapping up the "For Sale" sign which touched on a nerve. ...can I offer you a Zoloft?

BMBV,

I can certainly understand wanting to leave details to others, but did Northstar or the local engineer tell you what size of storm your wall was being designed and built to withstand?

Geez...and I even admitted you were absolutely correct (Which, as my scores of fans will readily admit, is quite a stretch for me).

Maybe it was the part about slapping up the "For Sale" sign which touched on a nerve. ...can I offer you a Zoloft?

Shelly you just asked "..can I offer you a Zoloft?"

No thanks, I already take it. That's why my posts are clear and to the point.

Plus it would be illegal for you to offer me Zoloft without a prescription.

Nice to know you have a number of fans. Wish I were one at the moment.

Shelly, just in case you've already forgotten (Lipitor is good for the memory, I hear - also the page up key works miracles!!), here's just part of your raving rant from yesterday....
"So go ahead and build as many seawalls, condos and shopping centers as the law allows and why not throw in drilling for oil too." ... not to mention the "I still pick up litter, but there is SO MUCH MORE now; and most disturbing to me--I couldn't give a rat's rectum if they drilled for oil 20-feet offshore from Seaside."

I'm still trying to figure out whose "nerve" was "touched" most.

Wait....what's that?? No way !!! It just can't be !!! But I've really tried so hard !!!

And the winner of the most touched nerve...
Ms. Shelly 10-0
Damn I hate losing!

Shelly, I don't know you from Adam. It APPEARS however from other posts in other threads, that you're in the real estate business. Only the best will survive down here. So if I do sell my gulf front property complete with retaining wall, and you are indeed a real estate agent/broker, you definitely lost any chance of making around $100,000 commission from me. I will give you credit for persistence (misguided somewhat). Maybe I'll let you list it afterall.

AGAIN NONE of this CRAP in our little "dialog" has anything to do with the topic including my response above !!!!!!

As a gulf front owner I won't take any sht from light weights who continue to paint a negative picture of gulf front owners who have no choice but to protect their property with the best technology available.

I just can't believe you, as a decent human being, would actually want to see your neighbor's house fall in because they didn't put in a retaining wall because YOU DID NOT APPROVE OF IT.

Here's something constructive we can discuss, if you're up to it....

Retaining walls, as I've seen down here, are NOT PERMANENT. The Hoover Dam is.

Please, no cutie posts..."What you admit your wall won't hold up?"

Each retaining wall could be removed in a couple of days if there was a "magic bullet" to the erosion situation in our 20 mile unique stretch of highly elevated sandy bluff on the Gulf.

Sally, just find it, and "You can have it your way".

When I meet someone on the beach, I don't want them to prejudge me in the light you and others are painting ALL gulf front owners who are simply putting a retaining wall to protect their homes. It borders on slanderous. Also, and much more important, it's just not nice.

I love turtles, mice, dolphins, clean white sandy beaches and clear water. You love your home. I love mine. You see we're really not that different. I am doing everything I KNOW to do to preserve all the above.

BMBV,

I can certainly understand wanting to leave details to others, but did Northstar or the local engineer tell you what size of storm your wall was being designed and built to withstand?

pgurney:

Of course not. If they did specify a category rating, then if it failed, they would be TOTALLY open to litigation.

I asked the SAME QUESTION to other retaining wall contractors and got the same response.

I just sincerely hope that no one will reply something to the effect "See, they won't guarantee your wall because they know it will fail". When damage is a result of acts of God, very few things are guaranteed. Admittedly, it's just a way out for them. There are a different manufacturers involved the construction of our wall...mainly:
1. sheet pile (wall material)
2. anchors
3. walers (beams that cross the entire expanse of the wall that are tied to the anchors)

IF any one of these products fails, the wall is history. Now here's the problem (AGAIN I'm not a lawyer )... normally when there is a failure of any final product (such as the retaining wall) that involves other products, every manufacturer is dragged into court. Whether or not any one manufacturer is at fault, each one is forced to defend their product, even if it did not cause the failure. The cost of litigation is expensive regardless of fault.

SO....it's much easier to basically say "we gurantee our product except for acts of God." Most warranties include this verbage. Hurricanes are acts of God in the court's eyes.

So, to answer your question: "...did Northstar or the local engineer tell you what size of storm your wall was being designed and built to withstand?" No, because they cannot and will not guarantee against acts of God.

This is not to imply that they couldn't be sued anyway. It just makes it tougher.

That is why I was so pro-active in researching what we were going to get. You're kind of on your own. Some people REALLY GOT SCREWED with their retaining wall end product.

I even considered some "local" contractors (Smiling Joe knows one). After about 3 major iterations, we settled on Northstar and a contractor who REALLY knew how to properly install retaining walls (that is his main business) as opposed to some who just do general dock building, retaining walls on the bay, walkways, decks, etc., and saw a big opportunity to make big bucks on the beach. And many succeeded.

However I truly feel we got our money's worth from a contractor whose only business is heavy marine work and has been doing himself for 30 years. That's why I believe our wall will survive and many others will indeed fail. Not everyone in my area agreed with my assessment, but most did and they followed my lead. The ones that did are all grateful after seeing the "other walls" that were cheaper.

By the way, I owe many thanks to a neighbor down the beach for turning me on the contractor we eventually used. All my fears and concerns up to that point were addressed by our contractor.

Now, let me ask you something...just curious...why did you ask about the hydrodynamic forces? Can you describe what you see as hydrodynamic forces that would affect the integrity of a retaining wall? I'm not setting you up. I really am curious. There are a couple I can think of but I'll let you go first because I'm a nice guy

Please take the time to reply.

Thank you.

Okay, don't bite....I have a layman's question and I really am trying to uinderstand. I have seen Galveston over the years (raised in Houston). It was my understanding that some GF property owners had "lost" their land to Mother Nature. How did that play out as far as E. Domain (couldn't abbreviate that one!).

Also, please explain who decides where to build on the dune and what agency should review plans and oversee where these homes/condos are built. I'm wanting to understand if everyone with GF property had the same set of rules and if some ignored them in order to enhance the view from their houses. I also am coming to the understanding that GF owners "own" the dunes and the property to the "high water mark". As has been stated before, I know there was panic to save houses, but still can't understand that almost a year later there is not a "standard" fix to this problem.

I have no idea what I would be doing in this situation. That said, these experiences have certainly changed my "dream" of ever owning/building gulf front. I guess I can say thanks...saved me a bunch of money!

"How did that play out as far as E. Domain (couldn't abbreviate that one!)".
Sorry, for once, I don't have an answer.

"Also, please explain who decides where to build on the dune and what agency should review plans and oversee where these homes/condos are built."
Florida Department of Environmental Protection reviews the plans regarding proper wall location.

"I'm wanting to understand if everyone with GF property had the same set of rules and if some ignored them in order to enhance the view from their houses."
The same rules apply to everyone of course (from what I understand). I'm not sure how you can enhance your view other than building a lower wall and closer to the structure. Both of these are considered more desirable to DEP anyway.

"....who decides where to build on the dune"
One small note here... Most if not ALL walls were built NOT on dunes but on the beach basically where the DUNE USE TO BE. The wall is back filled of course, and sand added to the front to "re-establish" the dune.

I know I'm being repetitive here but for you... there were no dunes to speak of after Dennis, only a (almost) vertical bluff. Just look at the pictures as they speak for themselves. Any resemblance of dunes now are man-made at the OWNER's expense. Nature would take entirely too long to restore them at the rate we're getting bombarded with hurricanes and tropical storms. So if we get hit again, maybe we have to get some sand for the front of the wall to recreate a dune for the turtles. But that's it. No more undermining. No more having to bring 1000's of truck loads to make up for the undermining (or soon to be). This is where the naysayers bark back by saying we shouldn't even do that. Utter non-sense.

"...still can't understand that almost a year later there is not a "standard" fix to this problem."
I did discuss this in previous post when I suggested that there should have been one retaining wall from Redfish Lake to Draper Lake. Although this would be more desirable from a technical standpoint, DEP allows you to choose any licensed contractor, many different wall materials, many different anchoring systems, etc.

I honestly agree there should have been a standard but then you would have the lumber industry (wood walls), vinyl wall industry, composite wall industry, etc. all suing the state for choosing their competitor's product and not allowing them to bid their product. You would also be creating a monopoly which basically is a NO-NO and generally makes things more expensive for the consumer.

My opinion is ANY of these products would be OK if they were properly ENGINEERED and INSTALLED. In that regard, I do see DEP dropping the ball. But like in my previous post, DEP doesn't want to be held liable either. That's why you hire a professional engineer (more for his stamp and insurance than for the actual services rendered - remember I said Northstar basically designed the wall with their engineers but our engineer puts it all together and submits it to DEP for the permanent permit). Composite material, in my opinion, happened to have the better specs...that's why I chose it.

"I have no idea what I would be doing in this situation. That said, these experiences have certainly changed my "dream" of ever owning/building gulf front. I guess I can say thanks...saved me a bunch of money"
According to Shelly, you should be able to pick up gulf front for next to nothing.

You've probably heard of "pump and dump" when it comes to stocks. That is boiler rooms make calls saying XYZ stock is about to take off and that you should buy it. Then after the price goes up (which it does do), the "crooks" sell their shares and make a tiddy profit.

I think these naysayer real estate agents (and the like) could benefit by implementing DUMP and PUMP (just the opposite). That is talk down all the gulf front real estate values by constantly presenting gloom and doom. Then when some of the misguided owners are unnerved and panic out, they list it with, who else, a realtor. Now the seller is asking for a lower price which makes finding a buyer more likely and then the agent gets a completed deal instead of just an expired listing. Just a thought. I know Shelly (assuming she's an agent) would not accept a multi-million dollar gulf-front listing based on her principles (unless it did not have a retaining wall of course).

Now let me ask a question since you're from Houston. Is Galveston considered a barrier island? What is the approximate elevation of properties built along the coast?

If you could describe that to me in your words, I would appreciate it. The reason being, more than once, people have compared South Walton County to Galveston on a number of occasions regarding "seawalls".

Thanks for the opportunity to clarify some items.

There, that didn't hurt. My bark is definitely bigger than my bite !!!!

One more thing...

From Sueshore....
"...still can't understand that almost a year later there is not a "standard" fix to this problem."

There is obviously another "fix" for all this that even some retaining wall detractors have metioned...

That is beach renourishment.

Thanks again Sueshore for your comments and questions.