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My first experience with public/private beach issue

organicmama avatar
Beach Fanatic
31,215 views
I took the kids out late this afternoon/early evening to the beach access at Dune Allen. Everyone had left, including the lifeguard. We were playing in the sand right in front of the access saw over to the left (when facing the Gulf) a man come out of his house and walk about halfway out to shore & pound a sign into the sand with a bucket. There was already a sign facing Dune Allen on his "property" (AKA the beach) that it was private property.

He went back up onto his deck and he watched us for about 10 minutes and then went inside. I don't know if he thought we were hooligans or something but his actions were strange, to say the least. We were at least 75 feet away from his "private property." And, I was picking up trash, ciggies & other crap off the beach. He obviously waited for everyone to go home before posting that, so that tomorrow, everyone could see where they shouldn't be, according to him.

This saddened me a lot. I didn't walk over there, because it would have been a blatant action on my part. With 2 young kids and a toddler dragging along behind me, not wanting to do anything but play in the sand... he would have known I was up to something.;-)

That sign would blow away in any hard wind and just be more trash on the beach and in the water. :bang: Signs on the beach, besides official ones, should be :banned:. They are atrocious.

Secondly, I (sort of) understand the whole idea of wanting your private space/sanctuary, but if that is what one wants, why build/buy a home right on a beach, ESPECIALLY right next to beach access???:idontno: To start posting ugly as h*** signs all over the beach, telling locals & tourists alike that they are not allowed on that location is rude. I can think of some other choice words, but I won't use them.

When are we going to get back to the idea of community? What is it going to take for us to wake up and stop biotching & moaning at each other? When are we going to realize that we are no better than someone else & that our needs are no more or less important that anyone else's?

Dave & others have mentioned it in the Blue Sign thread more than once, that we have successfully pulled together as a community to do something about the signs because they are eyesores. We need to pull together to make this community one we can all be proud of, without the nastiness of property rights regarding beaches & ugly signs (including for sale signs all over) everywhere.

This can be done and we can all be proud of SoWal as a whole.

Replies

145
organicmama avatar
Beach FanaticAuthor
#127
That access is deeded to that neighborhood just to let cha know.

I'm turnin' flaky on ya, GRS... does that mean it's not a public access? :idontno:
Smiling JOe avatar
SoWal Expert
#128
I'm pretty sure that Bishop St access is not a public access, and seem to recall a report of people being ran off that beach last year or the year prior. Where is that darn TDC public access map? That might show you whether or not it's public.
greenroomsurfer avatar
Beach Fanatic
#129
I'm turning' flaky on ya, GRS... does that mean it's not a public access?
The Stallworth access is deeded to the neighborhood so it is not public. I can explain more in person so next time i see ya we will chat. I have already talked to Cindy Meadows and Sara Commander and everyone in Tallahassee and everyone is playin chicken waiting on the supreme Court ruling. Just to let cha know Sara and Cindy our onboard for customary use. I'll start the count down for Hurricane Season my favorite time of the year.:yikes:
Kurt avatar
Admin
#130
I'm pretty sure that Bishop St access is not a public access, and seem to recall a report of people being ran off that beach last year or the year prior. Where is that darn TDC public access map? That might show you whether or not it's public.

There is a link to the beach and bay access map on this page - http://SoWal.com/map.html ;-)
Beach Fanatic
#131
When the County bought the 2+ acres at the outfall of Stallworth, I thought part of the deal was that the public had access through the access just before the gate to Stallworth Community. No?
greenroomsurfer avatar
Beach Fanatic
#132
I'm currently trying to hunt down the documentation to that access. Supposedly it is semi quasi public access just to Beach Highlands residents(the one that wasn't worthy of a big blue sign) But I was blessed with the ability to talk before I think so let me check.
organicmama avatar
Beach FanaticAuthor
#134
When the County bought the 2+ acres at the outfall of Stallworth, I thought part of the deal was that the public had access through the access just before the gate to Stallworth Community. No?

That's exactly where it is. There is a sign on the beach listing the Stallworth Preserve as a private beach, but it's a small area and no one ever has complained of anyone on that side of the sign, either.

Thanks for all the info from everyone.

The pdf that you attached, GRS, seems to indicate it's public but no one really wants anyone to know it's public. It even suggests to use the 8 regional accesses over the others at the top.

There's enough parking for 5-6 cars there & a bike rack. Usually, we walk, but sometimes take then car (which is when we usually also end up somewhere else because there's no parking). There's a couple of others from our neighborhood that use it, but most just skip it because of no amenties.

Until someone says, "Hey, y'all don't live in this neighborhood!" and kicks my :moon:out, that's where we'll be. We've been using it for 2 seasons and (knock on wood) no one's ever said a word.
Beach Fanatic
#135
I like it there too. especially for sunsets. I am sure it is available to the public because of the Stallworth Parcel that is owned by the County. I worked on that project, and I know that public access is a key part of those purchases.
:D
organicmama avatar
Beach FanaticAuthor
#136
I like it there too. especially for sunsets. I am sure it is available to the public because of the Stallworth Parcel that is owned by the County. I worked on that project, and I know that public access is a key part of those purchases.
:D

I love the sunsets there! When I am at home and see the sun setting, I can just imagine what it looks like just down the street, on the beach. That's why I had to get the kids out last evening to see part of it.

I've looked for the Bullard Road/Highland Ave access and cannot find it, so to me, that one is more of a private, neighborhood access. The one at Stallworth/Bishop has a flag, stairs, trashcan & showers. To me, that's got public written all over it.

Again, this goes back to the whole point of the thread in the first place. If beaches that appear to be public and are not or either are at a point of being taken away from the public domain, it is truly sad. None of us really own the land at all.....
mikecat adjuster avatar
Beach Fanatic
#137
One of the signs had 'fallen' the other day, so I decided to put a plan into action. I got the idea from seeing some kids on the beach. I buried myself and hid in the sand, patiently waiting for the owner to come by and erect the sign once again. Well, it took nearly a day and a half, but the wait was well worth it. I scared the hell out of him when I came up from under that sand. I think he's still laying out there, prone and next to the water. Well, actually I know he is and he's already beginning to smell, which will ironically keep people away from 'his' part of the beach. Oh well.
Mark Partington avatar
Beach Lover
#138
I remember this dude....from about 4-5 years ago......we were asked if we were "making a statement " of sorts; he pointed to an imaginary property line in the water & we were just sort of freaked out. I didnt go there to start a fight & other than wanting to finish that one right there, we just left & I kinda felt sorry for the guy. I'm sure there used to be more sand & water behind his house....now the waves are lapping at his divine right to be ugly...posiden does take stuff back(funny that way)....
Mark Partington avatar
Beach Lover
#139
Thats hysterical......
R we gonna need a gps,a corps of engineer map & cuniform script tablets to sort out......(sand?)
(rsponse to 'adjuster)....cant figure the threads thing out

Edited

Mystified avatar
Beach Lover
#140
"Granma, I just want to sit here and watch the plants." 4-year-old granddaughter.

Thats my favorite thing to do!
Gypsea avatar
Beach Fanatic
#142
Great addition Kurt! :clap:
JustaLocal avatar
Beach Fanatic
#143
I remember this dude....from about 4-5 years ago......we were asked if we were "making a statement " of sorts; he pointed to an imaginary property line in the water & we were just sort of freaked out. I didnt go there to start a fight & other than wanting to finish that one right there, we just left & I kinda felt sorry for the guy. I'm sure there used to be more sand & water behind his house....now the waves are lapping at his divine right to be ugly...posiden does take stuff back(funny that way)....

Are you talking about the yellow house on stilts just west of the Dune Allen access? That mans deed was old and really did indicate a southern property line that is now under water - it said a particular footage not MHWL like more recent surveys. After a confrontation with him, I looked it up and measured myself. Of course, when the shoreline moves landward so does the State
sovereignty (seaward of MHW). He sold his home, thank goodness.

The guy with the signs is east of the access and does not own to MHW. His property stops approx. 65 feet south of his deck.
Smiling JOe avatar
SoWal Expert
#144
Here are some new changes in enforcement. I like those apples. Finally, they decided to listen to my idea. It should be up to the person filing the complaint to prove that a trespass exists, prior to someone being arrested, locked in jail. Otherwise, anyone could charge anyone else with trespassing just to have the other person arrested and locked in jail. :clap:


From www.waltonsun.com


County looks to dodge beach privatization bullet

By Sean Boone sean_boone@link.freedom.com




In July 2007, a visitor from Atlanta was arrested for not leaving a private beach property near The Retreat subdivision in Blue Mountain Beach. That arrest sparked controversy over what and where is deemed off limits to the public on South Walton beaches.
At the time of the incident, the Walton County Sheriff’s Office was enforcing the wet sand line as to where a person could legally sit or loiter in front of a private beach. But since the incident, the WCSO is now enforcing a state attorney’s code that requires proof of representative authority.
According to a state attorney’s document sent to the WCSO in August 2007, a representative of the property or property owner must obtain a sworn statement from the complainant that includes the exact latitude/longitude of the trespass and have proper photographs to show landmarks around where the trespass took place.
Captain Eddie Farris of the WCSO said their enforcement would continue to adhere to what the state attorney asks of them.
“As long as we meet the state attorney’s request,” he said. “We will go by what they say.”
Under the new code, the wet sand enforcement would also be changed requiring an owner to provide the plot of the mean-high-tide area over a 19-year period.
The 1974 City of Daytona Beach v. Tona-Rama Inc. case brought beach privatization into full light, ruling that property that historically had been used as public access, could not be deemed private.
But many gray areas remain as to what is historic public access in the state of Florida.
Recently, Walton and Okaloosa County beach renourishment efforts have raised questions over what is the private beach owner’s rightful land and what is part of public beach after additional sand is added that extends property.
A lawsuit from three homeowners challenging the state’s erosion control permit was heard by the U.S. Supreme Court in April 2007, but a decision in the matter has not yet been tendered.
South Walton Tourist Development Beach Maintenance Manager David Sell said in a recent e-mail that the Remove It Or Lose It program, which removes items left on county beaches overnight, would not be able to patrol renourished beaches in the western end of the county until the Supreme Court ruling is made to determine if the area of beach is private or public.
“It is the county position that it should be public from the CCL (Coastal Construction Line) to the water,” he said. “However, we must wait to hear how the courts rule on it.”
Last year, Edgewater Condominiums in Miramar Beach fi led suit against Walton County after threats were made to remove their volleyball net, which was seen as a removable item under the TDC’s program.
“Since the code said chairs, tents, toys etc., Edgewater management thought the county had over-stepped its authority,” said Edgewater President Suzanne Harris. “Edgewater thought it was selective enforcement because an investigation by our attorney found there were many volleyball nets that had not been tagged, such as the one at the Whale’s Tail restaurant that was (on) public beach.”
BEACH SAFETY
LOOPHOLE
The South Walton Fire District’s Beach Safety program currently patrols more than 26 miles of beaches in South Walton. Much of the patrolling is done by roving (vehicles) below the high tide mark of private beaches.
“The majority of our responses are on private beaches,” said SWFD Beach Safety Director Gary Wise. “Without roving patrol west of Pompano Joe’s there would be no response (on west end of county beaches).”
Walton County currently has eight public beach accesses with lifeguard towers, but according to Wise many of the private beach areas have the worst rip currents.
“Two of the worst rip current areas are in Miramar Beach (on private property),” he said. “There are 26 miles of beach. Divide that by eight and you don’t have an ideal mathematical equation.”
Wise said his lifeguards were involved with 45 rescues and more than 50 assists (helped from the water) during Memorial Day weekend – many of who were swimming in front of private beach properties.

Private beach property creates a tricky legal situation for Walton County authorities. (Sean Boone/ The Sun)
CPort avatar
Beach Fanatic
#145
Added to home page - http://SoWal.com
the home page is looking good Kurt!
JustaLocal avatar
Beach Fanatic
#146
Here are some new changes in enforcement. I like those apples. Finally, they decided to listen to my idea. It should be up to the person filing the complaint to prove that a trespass exists, prior to someone being arrested, locked in jail. Otherwise, anyone could charge anyone else with trespassing just to have the other person arrested and locked in jail. :clap:


From www.waltonsun.com


County looks to dodge beach privatization bullet

By Sean Boone sean_boone@link.freedom.com

A step in the right direction! :D

Thanks for posting the article SJ.

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