Signs on 30A - here's the new plan

Yes, there will be too many signs, and this is only phase I. I suggested to paint most of the "safety" signs on the actual bike path, which reduces costs, clears the scenery of more than 100 signs and posts, and eliminates the possibility of any collision with those particular signs and posts which would now simply be paint on the pavement.

I like the new design & scale much better (to nitpick, I don't think the sea oats should stick off the sign), but feel there is a great deal of extraneous signage on each post.

We don't need to explain WHY the traffic signs are there - a yield or stop sign is more than sufficient w/o another sign telling you the reason.

If you ignore a stop sign and have an issue, that's Darwinism, not a need for additional explanatory signage.

I like the addition of the yellow 'trail crossing' sign to the standard vehicular stop sign, but feel that the white symbols and lines painted on the pavement or the presence of a road are more than sufficient to alert a biker to a crossing area - they don't need 4 more additional signs.

I also vote that the mileage markers only be installed on posts for other signs - not separate and at the exact location. Since it is a recreational path I think we can save some $ with a mile marker at 4.02 instead a sign at 4.02 and a market at 4.0!

That's it? We just re-use the Beach Group logo and add 1,000 more bike path signs? WTF?

I am okay with the signs itself, but why why why so many?? that really upsets me, it is so not what South Walton is about...Disneyworld. A sign every five feet, are people that stupid that they need constant direction? All I can think about is trying to take a "natural" photograph on 30A.

I A sign every five feet, are people that stupid that they need constant direction?

Yes, some are, but that doesn't mean we need to pander to their idiocy!

Seriously, how much "signage" do people need to follow a path? If they truly have as much trouble as the oodles of signage would suggest, they should not be operating a motorvehicle or bike ............or maybe even without 24 hour care!

That's it? We just re-use the Beach Group logo and add 1,000 more bike path signs? WTF?

Agreed. Why are we using someone's business logo? www.discover30a.com

Agreed. Why are we using someone's business logo? discover30a.com

Totally agree, especially when there are much better logos that can be used.

I know that I am just a visitor a couple of time a year, but didn't everyone get along fine without all the signs up to now. Why don't they just put the old ones back, and forget about it. Then everyone can get back to enjoying the beauty of the area. Who needs the darn signs anyway? :angry: I come from Nebraska and I've never gotten lost.

Learn to read a map if you can't find where you are going!

My impression is that a couple of guys who are very into the bike path and have become de facto ambassadors for the bike path approached the BCC about needed safety improvements to the path a few years ago.

I have seen the fantastic powerpoint these guys put together, and it seemed to me that most of the issues they had were more to do with safety issues like builders tearing up the bike path and leaving it a mess for months on end while they dig a sand pit/underground garage, or when developers put in sharp turns to enhance their front gates, parking on the path in front of Borago, and other maintenance issues.

So far, the only solution they've gotten is signs. Now, the signs are coming into question because of all the sign issues on 30A. These guys are, understandably, angry. They've worked really hard on the signs while no one was paying much attention. So, with that said -- I'd caution everyone to remember that we, as a community, have just started paying attention. We must begin with a certain bit of contrition for the fact that we didn't get involved earlier and accept that we can't make everything perfect, but we can improve what's coming down the pipeline. We must also be respectful of the guys who worked their heart and soul out to get the (needed and helpful imo) mile markers and safety improvements and not undo all of their hard work.

Going forward, I'd like to say that I'm now paying attention to the bike path, and while I'm adamantly opposed to sign clutter, I will support their efforts to get the bike path fixed in ways that really matter and truly make it more usable. Signage may be a hot commodity right now in lots of communities, and I'm sure SignTek appreciates the business, but the money is better used for maintenance and improvement and if the Timpoochee group have our support -- vocal and lots of it -- for the trail in other ways, I pray they'll forgive our delay of their project.


As for the sign clutter -- three more volunteers are desperately needed for the project to inventory signs. It's important!

Hard work is to be respected, and I don't really believe anyone is discounting that!

The fact that this is a new hot topic, is basically the TDC's fault to begin with. They made now REAL effort to communicate their intentions in the beginning of the signage process. Then when the Big Blue Signs were put up, they acted like it was no big surprise...but it was. So much of a surprise, that Claire Bannerman who is at the very for front of making 30A an offical scenic highway to begin with, was not informed! She has been working on this your years, and consulted the TDC on many occations, none of which did they discuss the design and purpose of the new signage. It was handed wrong, and now moving forward folks are very passionate because there is a fear if they don't speak up...who knows what will be put up next! What is now being proposed is twice as much signs that were put up in ealier this year, and that was twice as much as what was there before too.

The caution that needs to be taken at this point, is keeping our slice of heaven from becoming a clustered version of Destin. This is a recognized Scenic Hwy., even Hwy. 101 or Route 65 don't have that many signs! Saftey can be accomplished with out that many 'distracting' signs.

I often think that ego gets into the way of good decisions, and this situation is no exception.

I've only been living here full time for a couple years and so I feel a bit shy about tossing my comments into the converasation.
That being said, how many of you have traveled West into Sandestin and then Destin and right at the outlet mall, watched people driving in that lane way to the left. They drive by (count them please) seven big ole signs telling them that the lane they are in must turn left at the next intersection. Once they have passed seven signs, they finally come across the same writing right on the road. That's when they jam their vehicle to the right and nearly into traffic in the next lane to get out of the turn lane. That is when they finally see what the lane is about. Happens every day...all day.
All I am suggesting is that this might be the same scenario with too much signage on 30-A. People simply do not read the signs.
This is also why you have people either riding your butt shaking their fist at you or vise versa. Too many people have no idea what the actual speed limit is because they do not read all the signs changing the speed limit every half mile or so on 98.
Just food for thought

Hard work is to be respected, and I don't really believe anyone is discounting that!

The fact that this is a new hot topic, is basically the TDC's fault to begin with. They made now REAL effort to communicate their intentions in the beginning of the signage process. Then when the Big Blue Signs were put up, they acted like it was no big surprise...but it was. So much of a surprise, that Claire Bannerman who is at the very for front of making 30A an offical scenic highway to begin with, was not informed! She has been working on this your years, and consulted the TDC on many occations, none of which did they discuss the design and purpose of the new signage. It was handed wrong, and now moving forward folks are very passionate because there is a fear if they don't speak up...who knows what will be put up next! What is now being proposed is twice as much signs that were put up in ealier this year, and that was twice as much as what was there before too.

The caution that needs to be taken at this point, is keeping our slice of heaven from becoming a clustered version of Destin. This is a recognized Scenic Hwy., even Hwy. 101 or Route 65 don't have that many signs! Saftey can be accomplished with out that many 'distracting' signs.

I often think that ego gets into the way of good decisions, and this situation is no exception.

Maybe I wasn't clear. I agree that too many signs are a problem, and I think perhaps the logo was not thought through. I was hoping to point out that these signs were sought by a proactive group of good citizens and advocated by a fabulous commissioner who was being responsive to the voices she was hearing at the time -- so perhaps we shouldn't throw them under the bus, but try to work with what they have already done and hope to improve Phase 2 and drastically reduce the numbers of signs being proposed by all sorts of groups.

Ego sometimes leads people to attack others for wasting money, without factoring in how drastically the community involvement has changed.

I like the new design & scale much better (to nitpick, I don't think the sea oats should stick off the sign), but feel there is a great deal of extraneous signage on each post.

We don't need to explain WHY the traffic signs are there - a yield or stop sign is more than sufficient w/o another sign telling you the reason.

If you ignore a stop sign and have an issue, that's Darwinism, not a need for additional explanatory signage.

I like the addition of the yellow 'trail crossing' sign to the standard vehicular stop sign, but feel that the white symbols and lines painted on the pavement or the presence of a road are more than sufficient to alert a biker to a crossing area - they don't need 4 more additional signs.

I also vote that the mileage markers only be installed on posts for other signs - not separate and at the exact location. Since it is a recreational path I think we can save some $ with a mile marker at 4.02 instead of a sign at 4.02 and a market at 4.0!

See, I was complimentary and making constructive suggestions!

I do think that there are more signs proposed than are needed. IMO the focus should be on judicious sign placement for the people who actually read/use signs. There are a lot of "extra" signs that I think are intended for the people who would ignore a billboard.

See, I was complimentary and making constructive suggestions!

I do think that there are more signs proposed than are needed. IMO the focus should be on judicious sign placement for the people who actually read/use signs. There are a lot of "extra" signs that I think are intended for the people who would ignore a billboard.

You find this in retail too - a few well-placed signs can work whereas once you put up several the tendency is to just ignore them. I think our brains just don't want to register that much stuff that says "read me". .


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Ok, I have a problem with the number of signs. Why do we have to warn of a stop ahead? Get rid of that one. Keep the stop sign. My other problem is why do we need to reitterate what the sign is with an additional sign on the post? Just have the one sign. Get rid of the additional verbage and it's redundant sign. I'd much rather see past that space at the beauty beyond. I agree with scooterbug44, let Darwinism do its job. Lastly, I'm a little upset that wood was not the primary ingredient to the signs.

P.S. I still like the old wooden signs better. Why can't we have those back? Who do we see about that? And while I'm still griping, let me just say it, the new design looks a little too chic, too refined, I don't feel as proud of these signs as I did the wooden ones. The original wooden ones were so unique, yet so pleasing to look at, and I loved the little unbrellas. The fact that they appeared carved, gave them a look of being hand crafted, which to me denoted that the people must really care about these parts to have built such beautiful signs. Simply put, I was proud to have visitors see the old wooden ones. They gave me a feeling of being in a special place, like no other.

this is the image that was published in the paper as the new sign logo, looking vaguely similar to someone's website logo. There seems to be some confusion, at least on my part. are the extremely well meaning bikers the owners of said site, and offered up their logo as a mockup, and somehow someone in govt/media took it as gospel?

to many cooks in the kitchen with to many pots calling the kettle black!
AMEN! to the old wood signs.

"Ego sometimes leads people to attack others for wasting money, without factoring in how drastically the community involvement has changed"

In refrence to the above quote, the more people that flock to this area...the more folks you are going to piss off and the more people in the community will be involved. People don't always work well with change, even though it is a constant in life. I do agree that money was wasted on the "Big Blue Signs" but no more then usually with goverment and community projects. In fact I am a big believer in putting it to the community to raise the money to replace these signs.

If you don't like it...change it. If you can't change it...live with it.

If Beach Group hasn't given their written permission, isn't it just still in the process, where it can be tweaked a great deal? How far along are they on the completion of the signs? Also, since they own the rights to the design, that gives them advantage over other real estate companies, etc.

Geez, why couldn't someone designing the signs come up with something original? There is such beauty here, plus there are so many talented artists....

IMO, there are just too many signs. It's not to harm the hard work of the people who put their heart & soul into making the path a safer place. Of that, I am very grateful. But the signs will be ignored if there are too many of them.

SJ's right, most can be painted on the pavement. It would mean that the improvements to the trail have to be completed and then kept up with. I love the trail, it's part of the magic that brought us here. We use our little section a lot, almost daily, and as we move closer into the middle, we will be using it a great deal more as a major route for our whole family. The safety & upkeep issues are extremely important to me.

At times I think we're letting the sign issue define itself. Now that signs are a topic on the table, we've opened the door to this sort of barrage. Let's get back to fundamentals. To wit:



How hard is it to get lost on 30A, anyway?




If we agree that it's pretty durn hard to get lost on 30A, then we don't need a lot of signs, do we?

The conspiracy theorist in me wonders if someone is thinking, "OK, they don't like our blue signs. So we'll just propose more signs than they can possibly stand, and everyone will compromise back to what we originally wanted."

Okay - way too many signs. Yes, I feel as if I'm in Disneyworld. The design IMHO is much nicer though!

After a little digging something smells - here are a couple of scenarios I don't know if either is true:

1. Owner tries for several years to sell discover30a.com with no takers. It's not worth anything. Even attempting to sell it on Ebay. He convinces or pays someone to get the county to use the logo. Maybe the county is under the gun from citizens and makes another big mistake trying to save time or money. Maybe someone in the county gets a sack full of cash. Suddenly he has a hot logo property and Beach Group pays a lot of money for the logo which the county is now about to be in the business of promoting by spending more hundreds of thousands of dollars of our money not to mention ruining our scenicnicity.

OR

2. Beach Group bought the logo recently and is the party that got the county to use it.

Either way I would imagine there are a lot of competing realtors around that will bust a gut knowing the county is even considering using a logo owned by a competitor.

The county can't do business this way. Either Cindy Meadows was totally hoodwinked or was doing a favor for a friend. in either case i don't see how the county could use something commercial. At worst it would be favoritism and unethical. And they'd be open to a massive lawsuit no matter what the agreement is for allowed use by the county. It's proven tima and again the county buckles when stared down by expensive lawyers.

Surely the TDC wouldn't use the logo of a commercial site on hundreds of signs in SoWal. What about their logo with the umbrellas? Are they being punished for the blue sign fiasco? Wouldn't that be cutting off the county nose to spite the face?

old signs

the old signs were just right ! old friends welcoming you back (indigenous, organic, appropriate, not disneyish, not too many, a tradition and we have precious few...YOU GET THE PICTURE,

I don't see what all the fuss is about. Why spend any more money at all on the new wayfinding signs? We are all in agreement that the old wooden ones looked great. Let's build some more, with maybe a little larger letters, at the relatively low cost even at today's prices. Have them wind tested. Basically, put back the ones that already withstood a couple of hurricans. Done. Now, let's not fix, what is not broken.

From my generation:
Sign, sign everywhere a sign.
Blocking out the scenery, breaking my mind.
Do this, don't do that, can't you read the sign?

Please minimize the number and size of the signs along Highway 30A!