Canopy on the beach

This canopy thing is going to need more discussion. I have not seen any post in which any evidence that canopies were causing any decline in turtle numbers, only alot of emotion, no logic or facts. As everyone has agreed, the canopies have been up for years overnight and the turtle numbers have not declined. I really think the whole reason for the ordinace was to harass tourist. It seems clear to me from the post on this board, that most locals hold tourist in contempt and which we did not come to "their" beach. Well unless you people have purchased the beach, you don't own it. By the way, the remove it or lose it does not apply to private property. How come no one complains about that?

I posted a picture on the previous page that shows a "false crawl" meaning that the turtle came on the beach to lay her eggs but ran into a canopy and other stuff causing her to go back in the water without laying eggs. Whether or not she will ever make back to lay again is yet to be seen. But that is proof of one less this year. Hopefully she will survive another year at sea and be back next year. As for the ordinance not applying to private property, the issue of exactly what is private is still in the courts in Florida so it could change at any time. I suggest if you feel so unwanted and harassed that you find another area to vacation at. Unless you want to cough up a couple of million $ to own a piece of this beach and profess that the rules dont apply to you.

I love me some pinwheels

Junior Leaguers can rock some pinwheels, huh?

Think I'll dig out my Junior League of Denver cookbook and find something for dinner.

remember that red chicklets are available for giving to trolls.

Nope. I'm just fine with opposing opinions.

Just don't care for folks who stir up trouble just for sport.

Something actually has to be difficult to be considered sport. In all honesty I think a baby sea turtle is just as cute as the next guy and I wouldn't want to see one killed. I mean, I haven't gone out of my way to club a baby seal in years.

video from Walton County Board of County Commissioners - June 10, 2008
(Courtesy of Ray Padgett and www.waltondemocrats.org )

This discussion was the first of two public hearings regarding the "Leave No Trace" Beach Ordinance. The second and final meeting from July has not yet been posted to their site.

(a big THANK YOU to Ray for recording the meetings!)

Amen to the above post.

So you are implying that sea turtles can not hatch and reproduce by themselves without human intervention like they have for thousands of years?

I suggest you review this article for a lesson in real life - http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...esperate-battle-save-duckling-jaws-heron.html

Every species, including you, needs some intervention once in while. ;-)

I posted a picture on the previous page that shows a "false crawl" meaning that the turtle came on the beach to lay her eggs but ran into a canopy and other stuff causing her to go back in the water without laying eggs. Whether or not she will ever make back to lay again is yet to be seen. But that is proof of one less this year. Hopefully she will survive another year at sea and be back next year. As for the ordinance not applying to private property, the issue of exactly what is private is still in the courts in Florida so it could change at any time. I suggest if you feel so unwanted and harassed that you find another area to vacation at. Unless you want to cough up a couple of million $ to own a piece of this beach and profess that the rules dont apply to you.

I think that might be a great idea. I should purchase some beach property and then erect the largest canopy I can find. My freinds and family could all come down and enjoy themselves. We humans have the abilty to adapt and make our surroundings much more comfortable, that is the reason for the canopies.

Four your information, I am an attorney and have read the FL Supreme Court ruling regarding priviate beach ownership. Their opinion for once is right on and legally sound. Your statement that the issue is still not decided is wrong. The highest court in FL has ruled. Their will be no more decisions. Given their holding in this case, I am thinking that a successful challenge is possiable to the "remove it or lose it" ordinance. It appears to me that it represents an unlawful taking and possiable an interfrence to interstate commerce, however that might be a strech. Any ideas from the rest of you.

:rofl:

I think that might be a great idea. I should purchase some beach property and then erect the largest canopy I can find. My freinds and family could all come down and enjoy themselves. We humans have the abilty to adapt and make our surroundings much more comfortable, that is the reason for the canopies.

Four your information, I am an attorney and have read the FL Supreme Court ruling regarding priviate beach ownership. Their opinion for once is right on and legally sound. Your statement that the issue is still not decided is wrong. The highest court in FL has ruled. Their will be no more decisions. Given their holding in this case, I am thinking that a successful challenge is possiable to the "remove it or lose it" ordinance. It appears to me that it represents an unlawful taking and possiable an interfrence to interstate commerce, however that might be a strech. Any ideas from the rest of you.

Adapting has nothing to do with changing your environment to suit yourself. By the way, you will need a permit for having a large gathering on the beach.
:funn:


Regarding no more decisions by the FL Supreme Court, perhaps you are unaware of the case currently before them. They have to make a ruling. I would think an attorney would know that.

I think that might be a great idea. I should purchase some beach property and then erect the largest canopy I can find. My freinds and family could all come down and enjoy themselves. We humans have the abilty to adapt and make our surroundings much more comfortable, that is the reason for the canopies.

Four your information, I am an attorney and have read the FL Supreme Court ruling regarding priviate beach ownership. Their opinion for once is right on and legally sound. Your statement that the issue is still not decided is wrong. The highest court in FL has ruled. Their will be no more decisions. Given their holding in this case, I am thinking that a successful challenge is possiable to the "remove it or lose it" ordinance. It appears to me that it represents an unlawful taking and possiable an interfrence to interstate commerce, however that might be a strech. Any ideas from the rest of you.

Where, oh, where is my red pen?

Four your information, I am an attorney and have read the FL Supreme Court ruling regarding priviate beach ownership. Their opinion for once is right on and legally sound. Your statement that the issue is still not decided is wrong. The highest court in FL has ruled. Their will be no more decisions. Given their holding in this case, I am thinking that a successful challenge is possiable to the "remove it or lose it" ordinance. It appears to me that it represents an unlawful taking and possiable an interfrence to interstate commerce, however that might be a strech. Any ideas from the rest of you.

Fryday, are you really Dr. Noisewater? Another troll?

Pretty lousy spelling for someone who's (not whose!) been to a lot of college to get that law degree.

here's a pen, Miss Kitty...you missed a their (there, their, they're) OMG!

Originally Posted by Fryday_1
I think that might be a great idea. I should purchase some beach property and then erect the largest canopy I can find. My freinds and family could all come down and enjoy themselves. We humans have the abilty to adapt and make our surroundings much more comfortable, that is the reason for the canopies.

Four your information, I am an attorney and have read the FL Supreme Court ruling regarding priviate beach ownership. Their opinion for once is right on and legally sound. Your statement that the issue is still not decided is wrong. The highest court in FL has ruled. Their will be no more decisions. Given their holding in this case, I am thinking that a successful challenge is possiable to the "remove it or lose it" ordinance. It appears to me that it represents an unlawful taking and possiable an interfrence to interstate commerce, however that might be a strech. Any ideas from the rest of you.

Where, oh, where is my red pen?

Kitty, you missed "ability" and "private," but I've got your back. One would think that an attorney would have passed Grammar and Typing.

I think that might be a great idea. I should purchase some beach property and then erect the largest canopy I can find. My freinds and family could all come down and enjoy themselves. We humans have the abilty to adapt and make our surroundings much more comfortable, that is the reason for the canopies.

Four your information, I am an attorney and have read the FL Supreme Court ruling regarding priviate beach ownership. Their opinion for once is right on and legally sound. Your statement that the issue is still not decided is wrong. The highest court in FL has ruled. Their will be no more decisions. Given their holding in this case, I am thinking that a successful challenge is possiable to the "remove it or lose it" ordinance. It appears to me that it represents an unlawful taking and possiable an interfrence to interstate commerce, however that might be a strech. Any ideas from the rest of you.

here's a pen, Miss Kitty...you missed a their (there, their, they're) OMG!

Kitty, you missed "ability" and "private," but I've got your back. One would think that an attorney would have passed Grammar and Typing.

It takes a village!

I think that might be a great idea. I should purchase some beach property and then erect the largest canopy I can find. My freinds and family could all come down and enjoy themselves. We humans have the abilty to adapt and make our surroundings much more comfortable, that is the reason for the canopies.

Four your information, I am an attorney and have read the FL Supreme Court ruling regarding priviate beach ownership. Their opinion for once is right on and legally sound. Your statement that the issue is still not decided is wrong. The highest court in FL has ruled. Their will be no more decisions. Given their holding in this case, I am thinking that a successful challenge is possiable to the "remove it or lose it" ordinance. It appears to me that it represents an unlawful taking and possiable an interfrence to interstate commerce, however that might be a strech. Any ideas from the rest of you.

For an atturny at laaw, you got some grayt spellin skilz.

The usual deterioration of another thread.

It's a beautiful day outside.

Its raining here on me. It's not always sunshine and fuzzy warm feelings in Sowal or Sowal.com nor should it be.

Is "it's" possessive or a contraction? which "its" doesn't require an apostrophe?

Smiling Joe: I watched the public hearing.....seems to me that most of the homeonwers/landowners are against the ordinance. The abuse of laws to control other people's property and activities is not what America is all about. I side with the land owners that choose to use their own property the way that they expected to be able to when they bought it!

Smiling Joe: I watched the public hearing.....seems to me that most of the homeonwers/landowners are against the ordinance. The abuse of laws to control other people's property and activities is not what America is all about. I side with the land owners that choose to use their own property the way that they expected to be able to when they bought it!

Then don't whine when you mistakenly set up your canopy on what you think is public beach - and get your butt kicked to the curb when the "private beach owner" is not amused by your audacity.

It takes a village!

In this particular case, you've got one.

Lets be realistic here. There are basically two opinions on how the beach is to be used. You have the canopy users (families trying to enjoy the beach by relaxing in the shade, listening to music, reading books, playing in the water, building sand castles, watching kids play and making memories) and the anti-canopy crowd (those that want the beach to be uncluttered at all times with hopes of making a pristine environment for themelves and to save the sea turtle). This anti-canopy crowd may say that daytime canopies are OK, however the reality is that they don't want any large canopies or clutter on the beach. Unfortunately we beach vacationers like to have fun, we like for our children to have fun, we like to take lots of photos of the fun, we like to have fun under our large canopies that can fit several people engaging in all sorts of conversations and drinking all sorts of fun beach drinks. Yes, I said large canopy. Our canopy is large and has sand anchors...it does not blow away! Not even during pre-hurricane winds. My family has been enjoying Florida this way since 1965 when we built a house on the beach. We respect the environment. We respect the locals and other vacationers. We also have always left our canopy, our sailboat, and other items on the beach without ever having a problem. So now what is the problem? The anti-canopy crowd is trying to create their version of Shangri La by putting an end to our large canopy use. They live near a very popular beach and now want to change it. Our canopy is simply too big to bring in every day and set up again each morning. My family will not fit under beach umbrellas or wimpy four pole canopies! This anti-canopy crowd may say that we are disturbing the environment……but as I said before, I respect the environment and never leave trash or other loose items on the beach (actually we take keeping the environment clean very seriously and I often find myself collecting other’s trash, usually from the beach umbrella users that grab up the umbrella and leave cans and bottles behind). We stay away from the turtle eggs and teach our children to do the same. The save-the-turtle crowd needs to put its priorities straight and spend their precious time on a real issue such as the homeless, the hungry children of Africa, slave trade, drug abuse, wife abuse, child abuse or making sure that Obama does not get elected president….there are many to choose from that make saving the turtle seem as insignificant as it really is!

I say America is the great nation that it is today because of our social interactions and creative thinking, a lot of which takes place on vacation…on the beach (under canopies). This is one of the freedoms that make America great, but now there is a law that aids in the obstruction of this freedom. In closing, my family depends on our beach vacation for a time of relationship growth and bonding and I cannot sit back and be threatened by this anti-family(canopy) law without speaking up!

Smiling Joe: I watched the public hearing.....seems to me that most of the homeonwers/landowners are against the ordinance. The abuse of laws to control other people's property and activities is not what America is all about. I side with the land owners that choose to use their own property the way that they expected to be able to when they bought it!

I think you are confusing, "most of the homeowners/landowners" with the few people who attending the meeting and publicly spoke. I was at the meeting, as were many others, who never spoke on the issue that night, but we are in favor of it. The public hearing was to try and help write the ordinance. If you want to blame someone for the County's requirement to write the policy, blame any one of the Gulf front property owners who built a seawall. In order for the County to apply for a permit from the FL DEP, on the behalf of the seawall owners, the County has to create a HCP (Habitat Conservation Plan), and without it, those property owners would have to remove their seawalls, which were built with only a temporary permit.

As for the few vocal Gulf front owners against it, I guess they would rather have tourists leave all their crap on the beach in front of their house, complete with all of the plastic wrappers and empty cans to be recycled. I don't think they really know how much this ordinance will help keep the beach in front of them free of hazards, for which they, as land owners, are legally liable.

Hmmmm wrote: We respect the environment. We respect the locals and other vacationers. We also have always left our canopy, our sailboat, and other items on the beach

Seems like a contradiction.