I understand the double red flags in anticipation of the storm that was not, but why did the TDC put cones up to block the public access to the beach? Yellow tape on the steps blocked my way to the beach (not for long). Did the TDC tape up all stairs to the beach or just public access? I did not see any of the stairs to anyones private homes blocked off, so is the beach access only closed to those of us who use public access, I mean, who has the authority to close THE BEACH?
Replies
51
Beach Fanatic
It was just the TDC public walkovers that were "Closed." First time I remember them being closed in anticipation of a storm. Previous storms that damaged walkovers resulted in those walkovers being roped off to prevent people from being hurt going down a shaky walkover or one with part of it missing. So I guess this was a sort of preemptive strike. I understand the reasoning I guess but they put up the double reds when the Gulf was still flat as a pancake and really good swimming, some of the best swimming we have had all year. But then I suppose we don't need the fire dept waiting until the wind turned and having to go out in a storm to change the flags. So I have mixed feelings about it. Seems like to me the system could use some tweaking. 
Skunky
The TDC is in a no win situation. Leave the access points wide open and some knuckleheads will go swimming in a tropical storm and die. Put up trivial barriers and people get pissed.
Beach Lover
There are other people here other than tourists! The flags are in place. The signs are in place. If you want safety that bad, maybe we should all be under curfew like children! What is interesting is that blocking the access blocks the locals who have a right to experience the beach and its weather, and the surfers who have the right to ride the waves. Left in place are the tourists with money. Keep in mind that surfers and locals have saved more people than lifeguards. Be careful what you wish for! For safety, are you willing to give up freedom? I am not!
Beach Fanatic
In tropical storm and hurricane situations, the closing of public accesses is based on the decision of by the Director of the Walton County Emergency Operations Center to close the water. It has been this way for years. When the EOC determines the water should be closed, the public accesses are also closed. As Kurt posed in another thread, the EOC made the decision to close the water at 6pm on Friday.
SoWal Expert
In tropical storm and hurricane situations, the closing of public accesses is based on the decision of by the Director of the Walton County Emergency Operations Center to close the water. It has been this way for years. When the EOC determines the water should be closed, the public accesses are also closed. As Kurt posed in another thread, the EOC made the decision to close the water at 6pm on Friday.I couldn't be more confused. So the EOC Director over-rides the LifeGuard crews. I understand that. With South Walton being under a Tropical Storm Warning, I can understand the water being closed, even though it was calm for most of the day yesterday. You wouldn't want swimmers in the water all along the beach, then have the conditions quickly change for the worse. That would be a disaster waiting to happen. However, closing THE BEACH, doesn't make sense. Rising water will naturally close off the beach long before the storm has potential of damaging the TDC public walkovers. I can understand accesses being closed off if water is nibbling away the sand at the bottom of the stairs, and I could only guess that it would be difficult to have TDC staff waiting at the walkovers, for the rising water during a storm, so they could make a mad dash to close off the accesses, during the storm. That somewhat makes sense.
Truluv, I don't think the TDC has the authority to close off access to Grayton Beach. I've never seen the drive-on accesses to GB, closed, even during Hurr Ivan, or the 2005 storms. Water itself will limit one's access, and the blowing sand will sandblast the paint off a car in less than an hour.
I was impressed to see the TDC had removed all of the trash bags from the beaches
in preparation for the storm. Good job!Yes, the TDC is in a bind, damned if they do, damned if they don't.
Beach Comber
Grayton beach was open, no barricades or cones. About half a dozen vehicles and a bunch of beach people enjoying the clumps of june grass and a solid wall of jelly fish.
SoWal Expert
I walked out on Grayton yesterday, and never saw any June Grass nor a single jelly fish. What time was there a wall of jellies?
Beach Fanatic
There are other people here other than tourists! The flags are in place. The signs are in place. If you want safety that bad, maybe we should all be under curfew like children! What is interesting is that blocking the access blocks the locals who have a right to experience the beach and its weather, and the surfers who have the right to ride the waves. Left in place are the tourists with money. Keep in mind that surfers and locals have saved more people than lifeguards. Be careful what you wish for! For safety, are you willing to give up freedom? I am not!
Do you believe you have more of a right to walk and look at the beach than the dirty filthy idiot tourists who spend their evil blood money in your community?
Beach Lover
There are other people here other than tourists! The flags are in place. The signs are in place. If you want safety that bad, maybe we should all be under curfew like children! What is interesting is that blocking the access blocks the locals who have a right to experience the beach and its weather, and the surfers who have the right to ride the waves. Left in place are the tourists with money. Keep in mind that surfers and locals have saved more people than lifeguards. Be careful what you wish for! For safety, are you willing to give up freedom? I am not![/quote]
Just like the sun coming out and blessing us with a beautiful day come the naysayers, pundits and wannbees. Let us be thankful that this was a mere inconvenience that probably caused a little "cabin fever" for the locals and visitors alike. This thread was started with a legitimate question. Is this beach open or not? It is. It was closed and double red flags were posted on Friday. The EOC or the TDC do not make this decision in a vacuum. SWFD, WCSO AND the EOC make these decisions and as always it is in the best interest of SOWALLERS that if the weather had turned really foul it doesn't place the deputies and FFs in uneccessary risks.
SJ is right- Damn if you do, damn if you don't...
Beach FanaticAuthor
Wow nodilberthere, not fond of the touristas? I was at the 83 and Walline accesses, all closed up. SJ, I understand the red flags, but to close off parking at accesses? I know emergency situations often times require some advance planning, and I know common sense might keep me off the beach during the high point of a storm, but don,t I have to take responsibility for my own security without someone (govt.) restricting my access to the beach? How come Grayton wasn't closed? I know you can'y keep stupid folks out of the gulf even on double reds, but I noticed the cones didn,t keep folks off the beach. If it's a BEACH liability issue, why weren't private accesses blocked as well? Sure is a beautiful day today. Dissapointed that Obama didn't pick Herschel Walker for VP though, oh well....
SoWal Expert
truluv, this is the first I've heard that parking lots at the regional public accesses were closed. I think that is just wrong, personally.
I am still confused. In post #10, I am reading that the "beach" was closed. I've never heard of the beach being closed. Not during any previous storms has that happened, and if that was true, why did the Sheriff's Deputy not say anything to me when he passed me on the beach yesterday, at Grayton? To my knowledge, the beach was never closed, only the water was closed.
I am still confused. In post #10, I am reading that the "beach" was closed. I've never heard of the beach being closed. Not during any previous storms has that happened, and if that was true, why did the Sheriff's Deputy not say anything to me when he passed me on the beach yesterday, at Grayton? To my knowledge, the beach was never closed, only the water was closed.
Skunky
There are other people here other than tourists! The flags are in place. The signs are in place. If you want safety that bad, maybe we should all be under curfew like children! What is interesting is that blocking the access blocks the locals who have a right to experience the beach and its weather, and the surfers who have the right to ride the waves. Left in place are the tourists with money. Keep in mind that surfers and locals have saved more people than lifeguards. Be careful what you wish for! For safety, are you willing to give up freedom? I am not!
As a local, I am sure you know of many non-TDC access points that are wide open at all times. I saw quite a few surfers at the Inlet Beach public access today. I also saw three fools swimming. Darned if they do, darned if they don't.
Meow
I'm telling you...our government is growing in order to keep up and "protect" us from ourselves!!!! :roll:
Whatever happened to those sweet little words....
PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY?????
Whatever happened to those sweet little words....
PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY?????
Edited
Beach Fanatic
As a local, I am sure you know of many non-TDC access points that are wide open at all times. I saw quite a few surfers at the Inlet Beach public access today. I also saw three fools swimming. Darned if they do, darned if they don't.
I just really think we do not have to have so many rules. Put the flags up, educate and hope for the best. You can not police stupidity or ignorance!
Beach Lover
Public servants will still be required to serve the public even when the factors giving rise to the need for that service are precipitated by ignorance or stupidity. We can't just put up the flags and signs and hope for the best. We will still have to send people into the water to rescue folks who need rescuing. (or body recovery, as is the case from time to time).
Because I am not personally involved in the process, I can only guess that closing the parking and public accesses was an attempt to keep uneducated, ignorant or stupid people (mostly tourist I would think) out of the water. I doubt that this action was designed to address those of us who know better than to swim in double red conditions.;-)
I think there is a legitimate concern also, that not closing the public accesses prior to almost certain impending damage and destruction could be a liability to the entity tasked with the safe upkeep and maintenance of those access. (remember how many accesses were either damaged or completely destroyed in every serious storm we have ever had).
Having said all of this, I do realize that there is an inconvenience issue for those of us who have a brain but still want to enjoy our favorite beach during this beautifully intense weather. But overall, I think the benefit out ways the cost on this one. Also, just speaking for myself of coarse, being a local, If I want to be on the beach, tape won't stop me.
Because I am not personally involved in the process, I can only guess that closing the parking and public accesses was an attempt to keep uneducated, ignorant or stupid people (mostly tourist I would think) out of the water. I doubt that this action was designed to address those of us who know better than to swim in double red conditions.;-)
I think there is a legitimate concern also, that not closing the public accesses prior to almost certain impending damage and destruction could be a liability to the entity tasked with the safe upkeep and maintenance of those access. (remember how many accesses were either damaged or completely destroyed in every serious storm we have ever had).
Having said all of this, I do realize that there is an inconvenience issue for those of us who have a brain but still want to enjoy our favorite beach during this beautifully intense weather. But overall, I think the benefit out ways the cost on this one. Also, just speaking for myself of coarse, being a local, If I want to be on the beach, tape won't stop me.
Beach Fanatic
I'm telling you...our government is growing in order to keep up and "protect" us from ourselves!!!! :roll:Haven't you noticed? They no longer are applicable. And this time I'm not going to get so close to your litter box.
Whatever happened to those sweet little words....
PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY?????
Beach FanaticAuthor
Madam Felinus, I Concurus ' personal responsibility' is the Cat's meow!
Beach Fanatic
Over to the west, back when Ivan was starting to put feeder bands into the area, we stopped over at Wayside Park on Okaloosa Island on the way back from FWB to have a look at things, and got chased out of there by the Okaloosa SO, who told us that the park was closed and that they were locking everything up once the cars were out of there because the Island was under a mandatory evacuation.
So I don't see closing beach accesses in advance of a storm as some sort of ground-breaking insult, just maybe a bit of an overreaction for a storm that was never supposed to be as bad as that.
So I don't see closing beach accesses in advance of a storm as some sort of ground-breaking insult, just maybe a bit of an overreaction for a storm that was never supposed to be as bad as that.
Beach Lover
Do you believe you have more of a right to walk and look at the beach than the dirty filthy idiot tourists who spend their evil blood money in your community?
Not at all. I didn't call the tourists idiots, thats your add. It is however, the tourist who drowns! Absent lifeguards, the local surfer is his best hope. Every time a tourist drowns there is a push for a new wave of restriction. The local beach people know the water, and know better than rush to meet king Neptune!
Beach Fanatic
To clarify my earlier post, when the EOC makes the determination that the water is closed in an impending storm, the public accesses are closed. In most cases (all that I am aware of), it includes the closing of walkovers and parking areas. I am not aware of the Grayton drive on area ever being closed. One thing to keep in mind since hindsight is always 20-20, at 4pm on Friday, the EOC made the decision to close the water and thus the public accesses with the following information.
As of 7am on Friday, there was expected to be sustained winds of more than 30mph with gusts exceeding 40 and the winds expecting to increase throughout the morning daylight hours. Moreover, there were going to be a tremendous amount of rain with this storm. Both of these together can make the accesses slippery and unsafe. Their decision with the input of all the other public safety groups was to close the water and begin securing the accesses the night before to limit problems in the morning. As some of you have pointed out in the past and with this storm also, if she would have stayed further offshore or done like Opal there could have been greater intensification and no way to close things off.
As a side note, I was involved in a mediation where a 60+ year old lady climbed onto the access at Ed Walline when it was raining and wet from Tropical Storm Isidore. She then was hit with a gust of wind and slipped and fell down and was injured. The kicker to it all was that the access was closed. So just saying personal responsibility is not realistic in todays litigious society. You have to make public safety decisions the best you can and that's what they do.
As of 7am on Friday, there was expected to be sustained winds of more than 30mph with gusts exceeding 40 and the winds expecting to increase throughout the morning daylight hours. Moreover, there were going to be a tremendous amount of rain with this storm. Both of these together can make the accesses slippery and unsafe. Their decision with the input of all the other public safety groups was to close the water and begin securing the accesses the night before to limit problems in the morning. As some of you have pointed out in the past and with this storm also, if she would have stayed further offshore or done like Opal there could have been greater intensification and no way to close things off.
As a side note, I was involved in a mediation where a 60+ year old lady climbed onto the access at Ed Walline when it was raining and wet from Tropical Storm Isidore. She then was hit with a gust of wind and slipped and fell down and was injured. The kicker to it all was that the access was closed. So just saying personal responsibility is not realistic in todays litigious society. You have to make public safety decisions the best you can and that's what they do.
Beach Fanatic
Jack, how about the locals need to set a proper example. While you may think that you know the water so well that you are exempt from the rules of the masses, understand that when the uneducated see you out there, they are left with what other impression than it is OK to head right out there and join you.
Now, who has just become responsible for someone elses stupidity.....the follower......or maybe the leader.
I understand the desire to ride the waves when they are what you want, but the safety of the masses may need to outweigh the desire of the few.
Now, who has just become responsible for someone elses stupidity.....the follower......or maybe the leader.
I understand the desire to ride the waves when they are what you want, but the safety of the masses may need to outweigh the desire of the few.
Beach Lover
... The kicker to it all was that the access was closed. So just saying personal responsibility is not realistic in todays litigious society. You have to make public safety decisions the best you can and that's what they do.
Very well put. Thank you.
Beach Lover
... I understand the desire to ride the waves when they are what you want, but the safety of the masses may need to outweigh the desire of the few.
I am not sure I am on this train.
Surfers are "leashed" to a flotation device (their board). I don't see the logic behind a tourist seeing a surfer on a board in rough seas and subsequently thinking that because the surfer is OK, he is going to be OK. That seems a little like someone thinking it would be OK to jump out of an airplane without a chute because they saw how much fun skydivers had.
Maybe my example is a little extreme but, I believe (with respect) that maybe your point is a bit of a stretch as well.
Beach Fanatic
I am not sure I am on this train.Holy crapola!!!! I thought you were completely out of your mind on the other thread but I couldn't agree with you more on this one. Sorry to piss ya off the other day I'm not all ways polite. It is true however that people find a comfort seeing surfers out there and they are drawn to the spot we are surfing in like honey. We usually surf right next to a rip current so we don't have to expend as much energy paddling out. Oh yea no thanks on the xanex or whatever it was and yes I am employed!
Surfers are "leashed" to a flotation device (their board). I don't see the logic behind a tourist seeing a surfer on a board in rough seas and subsequently thinking that because the surfer is OK, he is going to be OK. That seems a little like someone thinking it would be OK to jump out of an airplane without a chute because they saw how much fun skydivers had.
Maybe my example is a little extreme but, I believe (with respect) that maybe your point is a bit of a stretch as well.
Edited
Beach Fanatic
Wow nodilberthere, not fond of the touristas? I was at the 83 and Walline accesses, all closed up. SJ, I understand the red flags, but to close off parking at accesses? I know emergency situations often times require some advance planning, and I know common sense might keep me off the beach during the high point of a storm, but don,t I have to take responsibility for my own security without someone (govt.) restricting my access to the beach? How come Grayton wasn't closed? I know you can'y keep stupid folks out of the gulf even on double reds, but I noticed the cones didn,t keep folks off the beach. If it's a BEACH liability issue, why weren't private accesses blocked as well? Sure is a beautiful day today. Dissapointed that Obama didn't pick Herschel Walker for VP though, oh well....
I am a tourist. I live far far away from there. I have seen so many posts referring to tourists as idiots that I couldn't hold it in any longer. I've seen things written that are so mean spirited, it's shocking. Thinning of the herd, more room in the car on the way home, they deserved it......all referring to people who've lost their lives on the beaches there and left behind loved ones to mourn.
Someone not from there does not realize the magnitude of your flag system. I know how crucial it is because I come on here. We have visited many years now. But I know that people who visit rarely and don't read this kind of stuff do not know how many people drown on the beaches there.
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