Back to All About SoWal

NY Times "Escape" Section on Seaside

DBOldfordBeach Fanatic
10,771 views
Did anyone see the article in today's Times "Escape" section about Seaside? Along the lines of trouble in paradise, etc. Mostly deals with the aftermath of storms/beach erosion, traffic, maintenance costs, and out-of-reach property values. I can tell you why we did not buy at Seaside, in spite of having stayed at their Honeymoon Cottages on several occasions. First, the traffic on 30A, which would only get worse with time. Second, we felt that maintenance and amenities at Seaside translated into what would become ever-escalating homeowners association dues which we would have no control over. Third, we were singularly unimpressed with how the properties were managed for rental purposes at the time we were buying.

On the "plus" side, I think the Seaside new urban design really set a tone for excellence in future South Walton developments. It put the area on the map in terms of attracting an international recognition and following. And I think (most of) the homes are definitely safer from the ravages of storms by virtue of their setbacks from the water's edge. The price they pay, of course, is absence of direct beach access and lack of Gulf views, in most instances. And we did not want a beach house that did not at least have a nice view of the Gulf, if not direct access.

The article goes on to say that sales are absolutely flat in the area now. This is to be expected in the aftermath of such a well publicized 2005 hurricane season. But I also believe that the hugely escalated prices of real estate (such as the $5M to $7M costs of Seaside homes) has simply priced many people out of the market, particularly when you consider that these are second homes for most. Combine this with increased interest rates, increased property taxes, and the uncertainty of insurance hikes and you have a very nervous potential buyer. Rental income nicely offsets a mortgage of under $1M, but becomes a non-factor for a property priced much higher.

Interested in knowing what some of the Seaside owners think about this???

Replies

87
Mermaidpicky
#2
I read that article, too. Do you think they could have used less attractive photos? :( I thought it was a bit of a downer. What happened to Seaside over its 25 years happens to many a place that becomes a victim of its own popularity. Look at Provence, France, after Peter Mayle's books. Or Tuscany after Francis Mayes'. Previously unspoiled places of wonder overrun with tourists and irrevocably changed.

I agreed with the author on several points--I thought a few of the rentals we stayed at in Seaside needed some TLC, too, and I hate the new aluminum stairs to the beach and Seaside's slow response in getting the accesses repaired. And the traffic is a nightmare, though the rest of 30-A can hold its own in that respect. That's not unique to Seaside by any means. But I do think the author gave a unreasonably negative slant about what our beaches look like. They obviously haven't looked at any of Kurt's photos post-hurricane season! Sure the beach is a bit beat-up, but there's a natural beauty that somehow the author overlooked, that no hurricane could destroy.
Coast is ClearBeach Lover
#3
I was a bit disapointed with the article as well, particularly since the author called me in the last 2 months to discuss the mood in town. He was a long time visiter to Seaside and indicated he loved the area, but was a bit surprised to see the beach late this summer when it was at it's worst. Looking at it today you cannot deny the positive power of nature. My personal view is that his article is a few months late.

As far as Seaside goes, we were long time visitors until buying a lot and building in 2003-2004. For us it was a shocking amount of money for a tiny plot of sand. But we love the area, town feel, beaches, arts, etc. and our main reason for buying there was we felt it was the best investment of any of the 30-A beach properties. (longevity, name recognition, etc.) So far it has exceeded my wildest expectations. :clap_1:

I will be the first to say that in any town setting there is politics, and service issues. Seaside is no different. But every time I am there visiting all that seems to melt away. I would think it was a gret investment even if was worth what I paid for it and I look forward to every visit.

As far as gulf views, we are back around Forest St.and have gulf views from our 3rd floor and tower, so Seaside positioning on the beach has not been a problem. I just think it was additional forsight by Robert Davis to build behind the dunes instead of on top at the time.
Kurt avatar
KurtAdmin
#4
Traffic is far, far, far from nightmare status here. :roll:
peapod1980 avatar
peapod1980percy
#5
Did anyone see the article in today's Times "Escape" section about Seaside?
Anybody have a link before I go digging around on the NYT site...?
Coast is ClearBeach Lover
#6
Traffic is far, far, far from nightmare status here. :roll:

I agree Kurt. This was the first summer where we spent time at the beach, and while it was busy, it was not nearly as bad as I was expecting along 30-A.
RudyjohnSoWal Insider
#8
The article tells it like it is ~
southof30A avatar
southof30ABeach Lover
#9
Traffic is far, far, far from nightmare status here. :roll:
Unless you are trying to get thru the 2 absolutely stupid stop signs in Rosemary Beach in July.
Kurt avatar
KurtAdmin
#10
Unless you are trying to get thru the 2 absolutely stupid stop signs in Rosemary Beach in July.

They have been replaced with 3 traffic lights. :roll: :floor:
Paula avatar
PaulaBeach Fanatic
#11
Every place has multiple "true" stories going on simultaneously. The story told is one of those stories. The other "true" stories are the ones that have to do with people stopping by Seaside to get food at the market, walking through the streets, renting those bicycles and riding around the streets, enjoying the bookstore, families making memories, people learning to respect the power of Mother Nature and adapt to her, people enjoying the beauty and nature of the area, people enjoying sunset at Bud and Alley's, etc.

As for traffic, I have never been to the area during peak season (June - early August) but for the rest of the year, the lack of traffic is heavenly.
Travel2MuchBeach Lover
#12
I think the article unjustifiably sensationalized the dune damage, but was dead-on right about the car issue. I stayed several times at Seaside over the years, even b/f the south side of 30A was developed (it was much much nicer then). There are two major, fundamental problems that impede it reaching its vision in my view, neither of which can be fixed:

1. The basic design totally ignores treatment for cars. And, what you have are SUVs lining the narrow streets. So, instead of relaxing on your front porch listening to the crickets or watching the children play in the street you are treated to someone's SUV in your front yard. Drove me absolutely nuts. They should limit the number of cars people can park to one, or ban cars entirely. The traffic on 30A is tight, but the cars on the side streets are incredibly unaesthetic. I don't want to spend 4k a week to stare at some person's Jeep Cherokee.

Watercolor initially designed around this problem, but caved in to the touristas and now have parking spots in the front of houses--right in front of those much talked about screened porches. Alys Beach from what I hear is doing it completely right--cars are going to be in walled group parking areas.

But, my view is that there should be a two car maximum for any unit, anywhere on 30A.

2. The second failure is that Seaside's vision contemplates a summer residential community, and now the vast majority are trasnsient weekly renters. Instead of greeting your loved neighbors back for the season year after year, your neighbors might be an LLC, and the people next door transients who blast the stereo too loud, whatever.

So, if you judge architecture by whether it attains its stated goals, Seaside has ultimately to be considered as a failure. I love its concept tho, and the design, and avail myself of the place as much as possible.
SantiagoBeach Fanatic
#13
I think the article unjustifiably sensationalized the dune damage, but was dead-on right about the car issue. I stayed several times at Seaside over the years, even b/f the south side of 30A was developed (it was much much nicer then). There are two major, fundamental problems that impede it reaching its vision in my view, neither of which can be fixed:

1. The basic design totally ignores treatment for cars. And, what you have are SUVs lining the narrow streets. So, instead of relaxing on your front porch listening to the crickets or watching the children play in the street you are treated to someone's SUV in your front yard. Drove me absolutely nuts. They should limit the number of cars people can park to one, or ban cars entirely. The traffic on 30A is tight, but the cars on the side streets are incredibly unaesthetic. I don't want to spend 4k a week to stare at some person's Jeep Cherokee.

Watercolor initially designed around this problem, but caved in to the touristas and now have parking spots in the front of houses--right in front of those much talked about screened porches. Alys Beach from what I hear is doing it completely right--cars are going to be in walled group parking areas.

But, my view is that there should be a two car maximum for any unit, anywhere on 30A.

2. The second failure is that Seaside's vision contemplates a summer residential community, and now the vast majority are trasnsient weekly renters. Instead of greeting your loved neighbors back for the season year after year, your neighbors might be an LLC, and the people next door transients who blast the stereo too loud, whatever.

So, if you judge architecture by whether it attains its stated goals, Seaside has ultimately to be considered as a failure. I love its concept tho, and the design, and avail myself of the place as much as possible.
Robert Davis is quite a visionary but even he couldn't envision the changes that would happen to Seaside and the whole area in the past 25 years. It does not constitute failure that the area had so much appeal, that every yuppie in Atlanta with an SUV would want to spend a week here. By your definition, the only way that he could have succeeded would be for him to have frozen time, which consequently, would have frozen real estate values. Things evolve, sometimes for better, sometimes for worse, but they always evolve. I would say that somewhere along the way, Seasides goals changed also and I think that most people would consider it quite a success story.
landlord avatar
landlordBeach Lover
#14
One observation on Seaside...

We own a house on 30-A and thoroughly enjoy it. When we bought it, it was on the rental program (which I was most unimpressed with). In any event, we promptly removed it from rental because the income was modest compared to the expense of the house and its value.
We stay at the house several weeks a year and let family and business friends stay there when we are not there.
I expect that the rental activity will diminish significantly over time because if you invest 3,4,5 million in your house, you don't need (or want) to subject yourself to the hassles of renting.
That being said, Seaside as a community will experience change (for the better) if this occurs and I would expect more people to be full-time residents (at least for much of the year).
Miss Kitty avatar
Miss KittyMeow
#15
I paid the author to write the story. :floor::funn:

hee hee hee...and that's maybe not a bad thing!!!!
DBOldfordBeach FanaticAuthor
#16
Living in CA, I would have to agree with Kurt about the traffic. What passes for congestion on 30A would be considered very minor here and in most urban areas. Must say that I love driving 30A at night during the winter months, when every place feels like a ghost town. I also agree that Seaside has been more of a success than otherwise. It isn't a community suited to everyone and all my childhood memories were connected more with Grayton. But it's interesting to consider how the South Walton beaches would have developed had Seaside and its excellence of design/performance standards not set the tone early on. I am so happy that Seaside distinguished our part of Florida as "Old Florida," because South Florida seems like a colony of Brooklyn to me. And without a Seaside, we might have seen far more highrise development like the unfortunate early strips in Blue Mountain and eastern Seagrove. We are also very happy with our investment in the house, but I would not look forward to a long-term engagement with rental property. That said, we have had our home on the rental program for four years now and have had damage only once during that time, all of which was acknowledged by the renter and paid in full. And in a couple of instances, had we not had renters in the house to report problems, we could have had a much more serious issue. So...all things in perspective.
Travel2MuchBeach Lover
#17
Sure if Seaside's goal has changed to enhance real property value there and in the area then sure it is a success. Overwhelmingly. I think they have done a good job in giving great weight to the aesthetics (original goal) along with that, at least until recently. But, on pure aesthetics and functionality it is a failure.

The car problem (also trash pickup, too) was acknowledged by the planners a long time ago as a design error IIRC, and Rosemary Beach, planned out a few years later, was designed to try and avoid that problem. (I recollect this since I looked casually into Rosemary in the early 1990s and simply hate the problems at Seaside). Some success there, but not entirely. Alys, I think, has it absolutely right--make it architecturally impossible for people to litter their cars in the side streets and relegate them to hidden areas.

But, Seaside has never had the guts to tell the SUV driving, dollar bill waving Atlantan to park their car in some hidden lot that might involve a five minute walk and that might use highly valuable and saleable land. That's valuing bucks over architectural aesthetics, IMO.

All depends on what you use as the criterion for evaluating success.

I am really majorly wuvving Alys Beach as it goes up, as one might tell. Doesn't mean also I don't wuv Seaside.
Smiling JOe avatar
Smiling JOeSoWal Expert
#18
Interesting comments. So how do you suggest that Seaside police itself and make everyone park their vehicles elsewhere? Also, where is the "parking lot property" you mention located?
SantiagoBeach Fanatic
#19
Sure if Seaside's goal has changed to enhance real property value there and in the area then sure it is a success. Overwhelmingly. I think they have done a good job in giving great weight to the aesthetics (original goal) along with that, at least until recently. But, on pure aesthetics and functionality it is a failure.

The car problem (also trash pickup, too) was acknowledged by the planners a long time ago as a design error IIRC, and Rosemary Beach, planned out a few years later, was designed to try and avoid that problem. (I recollect this since I looked casually into Rosemary in the early 1990s and simply hate the problems at Seaside). Some success there, but not entirely. Alys, I think, has it absolutely right--make it architecturally impossible for people to litter their cars in the side streets and relegate them to hidden areas.

But, Seaside has never had the guts to tell the SUV driving, dollar bill waving Atlantan to park their car in some hidden lot that might involve a five minute walk and that might use highly valuable and saleable land. That's valuing bucks over architectural aesthetics, IMO.

All depends on what you use as the criterion for evaluating success.

I am really majorly wuvving Alys Beach as it goes up, as one might tell. Doesn't mean also I don't wuv Seaside.
I see what you are saying and here's to Alys trying to "get it right" but they will still have the same problems as Seaside and Rosemary Beach. As a property owner in RB, I can tell you that the carriage house parking behind most houses has not solved anything, maybe lessened it. People still like to drive and you can't get the Excursion into a carriage house spot very easily. At least they are thinking about it.
Travel2MuchBeach Lover
#20
I see what you are saying and here's to Alys trying to "get it right" but they will still have the same problems as Seaside and Rosemary Beach. As a property owner in RB, I can tell you that the carriage house parking behind most houses has not solved anything, maybe lessened it. People still like to drive and you can't get the Excursion into a carriage house spot very easily. At least they are thinking about it.

Right--RB was the next try, some successes but not a solution. I see it as an inherent problem with the New Urbanism, whiich has as one tenet ejecting people from their cars and getting them to walk, char with the neighbors, having self-sufficient communities, etc. BUT, people don't like to do that (particularly some short term renters). So, there is a constant battle between these two points.

Not saying that Seaside wasn't visionary, but like all Beta versions has some gliches. Every New Urbanist town in the area has wrestled with the problem. Watercolor, what I like to call faux New Urbanist, originally had a good idea--all parking was offstreet and carefully regulated. Then they caved and added those front parking spots. Alys Beach does seem to be adopting an interesting approach, which seems to be MAKING people do it.

Yeah SJ, a good New Urbanist would get the parking police and forceably separate people from their SUVs. For their own good and for the salvation of all mankind. Early on in Seaside there was enough held land in the back to maybe address the problem. Maybe not though. Given the original design, maybe they were always stuck with it. But to have been true to the vision the sacrifice should have been made (not saying that should have been done but that to be true to the vision it had to be done).

Good art, which includes architecture, is never well liked by most.

Checking your forum account

Please wait while we verify your forum account.

New posts