This is long, but bear with me because there is something I want your opinions on. Since an extremely qualified school board candidate is being drawn and quartered here, and several posters harped on education levels for the different Sheriff candidates in the primary, I am going to go out on a limb and ask...what, precisely, does a degree of any sort mean, in respect to our local races?
Case in point: let us examine the Sheriff's race and play "what-if" for an election in say, eight years. This is purely hypothetical; let's not jump to conclusions as no plans are being laid. But when people get speared for not having degrees, I can't help but think about my spouse. So, let's pretend for a moment that someone in my family plans to run for Sheriff. :creepy:
ShallowsFuzz currently has 25 years of law enforcement experience, has served under two, soon to be three, local sheriffs and has also briefly worked for the DFSPD and DOT. He has twice worked his way back into the Criminal Investigation Division, but like most of the seasoned officers who worked under RJ, he was stripped of his rank. He has recently been assigned to an inter-county "cold case" unit and has tremendous respect within the department, other departments, and all of Walton County. He is known for treating people as he would want to be treated, which is Rule #1 in Management. College was not a priority in his family, and they did not have the means to send him, so he went straight into the Army after high school, and three years later, straight to the Sheriff's Office from the Army. In those days, deputies had no way to work and go to school, as your shifts rotated every three months. Some classes were offered in DeFuniak, but you could not finish your degree there. He has tried to go back twice in the years since, but once he had to withdraw due to a major homicide case and once he put his dreams off to allow me to finish my education. (Note: he is now re-enrolled at OWC and will begin working toward finishing his A.A.S. in January. Thank God for online classes! :clap:) For this scenario, let's pretend he has the A.A.S. in Criminal Justice from OWC or whatever it is now called, plus 33 years of experience.
I, on the other hand, have a Bachelor's Degree in Business Administration from UWF, with a specialization in Accounting. It took 12 years to finish the last two years of college, due to my parents passing away, my getting married, becoming a mom, and working full-time. Fuzz gave up a couple of opportunties to go back to school himself in order to be with our child at night while I went to class and studied, because I was much further along and we figured I'd need it to get a good job. Along the way, I studied not only Accounting, but governmental accounting (one semester), Management (two semesters), teamwork, global economies, business communication, etc. I think I missed my calling, as I love studying the stuff Fuzz has to know.
ShallowsSquirt is currently a sophomore at SWHS. He plans to either become a child psychologist, or go into FSU's world-renowned Criminal Justice Program and study forensics and psychology (CSI, baby!). If he stops getting hung up on teenage drama, he could conceivably have his bachelor's in Criminal Justice from FSU eight years from now.
So, my friends, now that I've laid bare my soul and my family's education, of the three of us - Fuzz, Squirt, or yours truly - which one is most qualified to run for Sheriff?
"None of the above" is not an answer. :blush:
Replies
18
SoWal Insider
:floor: I think I'd vote for the one with the most EXPERIENCE...:wave:
(if he promises not to charge me for picking up my stolen car):blush:
(if he promises not to charge me for picking up my stolen car):blush:
Beach Fanatic
:floor: I think I'd vote for the one with the most EXPERIENCE...:wave:
(if he promises not to charge me for picking up my stolen car):blush:
And he comes with an experienced, knowledgable, bright accountant with government experience!!!!
Beach FanaticAuthor
And he comes with an experienced, knowledgable, bright accountant with government experience!!!!
Thanks for the complement :wub:, but that would be a real hoot when the Florida Ethics Commission shows up to check out the nepotism charges. :roll: Plus I've never done payroll...
Beach Fanatic
It would be a lot better than what we are getting now.....if he were Sheriff he could at least pick your brain about accounting and get some sound advice.
Beach Fanatic
I have a college degree and I totally agree. I have long felt that the educational system has too much of a strong hold in our society in certain segmants.
Imagine if someone told Tiger Woods he could no longer play on the tour without an 'advanced degree', either a masters or doctorate. Imagine if someone had made Michael Jordan go back to school to get his degree just as he was reaching his prime as a player. Either you can perform or you cannot.
I can get very idealistic talking about this subject, so I'll stop before I get too deep. But I agree with the first post. Good luck and best wishes.
Imagine if someone told Tiger Woods he could no longer play on the tour without an 'advanced degree', either a masters or doctorate. Imagine if someone had made Michael Jordan go back to school to get his degree just as he was reaching his prime as a player. Either you can perform or you cannot.
I can get very idealistic talking about this subject, so I'll stop before I get too deep. But I agree with the first post. Good luck and best wishes.
Beach Fanatic
I whole heartily agree that this country OVER emphasizes college degrees. I think they have their place.
But we need to place more emphasis on vocational schools, apprenticeships, and plain ol' experience.
Instead we make every 18 year old think that if they get the college degree they'll get a job. They are $50k+++ in debt before they figure out it's just not true!!
But we need to place more emphasis on vocational schools, apprenticeships, and plain ol' experience.
Instead we make every 18 year old think that if they get the college degree they'll get a job. They are $50k+++ in debt before they figure out it's just not true!!
SoWal Expert
As always, common sense and balance are needed - IMO you need a combo of higher education and experience to properly perform most jobs.
That higher education can come in the form of vocational training, apprenticeship, additional certifications, college etc. I can't think of ANY specialized profession - white or blue collar - where some form of additional education is not required or preferred.
I went to school with people who were "book smart and life dumb" and I know some very intelligent people who do not pursue higher education, but generally I think that someone w/ a college degree or advanced degree in a white-collar subject tends to know more about it.
That higher education can come in the form of vocational training, apprenticeship, additional certifications, college etc. I can't think of ANY specialized profession - white or blue collar - where some form of additional education is not required or preferred.
I went to school with people who were "book smart and life dumb" and I know some very intelligent people who do not pursue higher education, but generally I think that someone w/ a college degree or advanced degree in a white-collar subject tends to know more about it.
SoWal Expert
All of my certificates, awards, and diplomas are stored in boxes. They are somewhat like the birthday cards my grandma gave me. I don't want to throw them away, but they serve no purpose. Diplomas don't make you who you are, but education can indeed shape your mind. I guess the question is about education -- what is education? Some education is forced regurgitation, learning just to show comprehension. Many schools are regurgitation factories, and teach you what to think, not HOW to think. Of course there are a few teachers and schools scattered about, where they do educate people on how to think, not what to think. Nietzsche's teacher wrote that the best honor a student to bestow upon a teacher is to stop being a pupil (paraphrasing). I agree.
I've seen people who view college degrees as nothing more than a hoop through which they must jump to receive higher wages. I've seen people who go to college because all of their friends are going, and they don't want to feel left out, socially. I've seen people who go to college because their parents expect it, and their parents want to brag on their kids. I've also seen people go to school because they want to learn. From my observations, all learn something, but those who have the thirst to learn, may put forth more effort. It doesn't mean they are better people. They may be less well-rounded, and might not make a better business owner, manager, or employee.
In summary, I think it all goes back to the individual, their morals, ethics, willingness to help, listen, and learn about the subject at hand, regardless of their own background. I don't watch much TV, but last night I saw that dance contest. They have maybe ten couples, and within each couple/team, one is a professional dance instructor and the other is not a dancer at all. Last night, two of the pros were given new dances, both were the JitterBug. Neither of the pros had ever danced the Jitterbug, let alone taught it. They didn't know what they were supposed to do. One of the pros googled the jitterbug, and got his knowledge from that. They were given one week to make up their own routine and perform. Each of these couples doing the Jitterbug received the highest scores from the judges. They looked like they had been doing the jitterbug for years. They accepted the challenge of being dealt a new deck of cards, adapted and excelled. That is the quality which shines in any person -- being thrown a curve ball, adapting, collecting (emotions and information), learning, adjusting, shining. I'll take one of these employees or leaders over three others who have only fancy degrees, every time.
I've seen people who view college degrees as nothing more than a hoop through which they must jump to receive higher wages. I've seen people who go to college because all of their friends are going, and they don't want to feel left out, socially. I've seen people who go to college because their parents expect it, and their parents want to brag on their kids. I've also seen people go to school because they want to learn. From my observations, all learn something, but those who have the thirst to learn, may put forth more effort. It doesn't mean they are better people. They may be less well-rounded, and might not make a better business owner, manager, or employee.
In summary, I think it all goes back to the individual, their morals, ethics, willingness to help, listen, and learn about the subject at hand, regardless of their own background. I don't watch much TV, but last night I saw that dance contest. They have maybe ten couples, and within each couple/team, one is a professional dance instructor and the other is not a dancer at all. Last night, two of the pros were given new dances, both were the JitterBug. Neither of the pros had ever danced the Jitterbug, let alone taught it. They didn't know what they were supposed to do. One of the pros googled the jitterbug, and got his knowledge from that. They were given one week to make up their own routine and perform. Each of these couples doing the Jitterbug received the highest scores from the judges. They looked like they had been doing the jitterbug for years. They accepted the challenge of being dealt a new deck of cards, adapted and excelled. That is the quality which shines in any person -- being thrown a curve ball, adapting, collecting (emotions and information), learning, adjusting, shining. I'll take one of these employees or leaders over three others who have only fancy degrees, every time.
Beach Fanatic
I admire the fact that you have your college degree, ShallowsNole, but the facts are its a "no brainger". Fuzz is the most qualified to run for sheriff. I might add that personally I wish a lot of people would get off the degree kick. For somes professional positions it is a necessity. For many jobs it is not necessary. It is only an indication of a need in certain areas of expertise.
It is not an indication of intelligence, determination or intestinal fortitude, in its self.
It is not an indication of intelligence, determination or intestinal fortitude, in its self.
SoWal Expert
SJ, those pros were able to do so well BECAUSE of their specialized training and experience - they took classes and learned from instructors for years to reach that point - same as with any skilled profession.
I definitely think college educations/degrees and what you get out of them vary a great deal based upon the individual, the major/degree and the school.
I definitely think college educations/degrees and what you get out of them vary a great deal based upon the individual, the major/degree and the school.
Beach FanaticAuthor
And nobody can argue that the ability to communicate effectively, which IS one of the things I got out of all those trips back and forth to Niceville, DeFuniak, Tallahassee and Fort Walton Beach, is necessary. I am just tired of people who I have known for years being judged based on college vs. work. :bang:
I have also made the mental note that we should stay away from pinatas. Never in my life have I seen so much ado about nothing. I will, however, continue to eat fried gator tail for Thanksgiving. ;-)
This is my last post in this particular forum until after the election. I have done all I can do, said all I can say, and I am tired. At least the sheriff's office will be going in a good direction, no matter what happens. I'll be in the lounge. :leaving:
I have also made the mental note that we should stay away from pinatas. Never in my life have I seen so much ado about nothing. I will, however, continue to eat fried gator tail for Thanksgiving. ;-)
This is my last post in this particular forum until after the election. I have done all I can do, said all I can say, and I am tired. At least the sheriff's office will be going in a good direction, no matter what happens. I'll be in the lounge. :leaving:
SoWal Expert
SJ, those pros were able to do so well BECAUSE of their specialized training and experience - they took classes and learned from instructors for years to reach that point - same as with any skilled profession.
I definitely think college educations/degrees and what you get out of them vary a great deal based upon the individual, the major/degree and the school.
My point is that they received absolutely no specialized training in how to dance the JitterBug. They learned it on their own in a week, and were able to teach it to another person in the same week. It seems that they learned HOW to dance in their instruction, not WHAT to dance.
SoWal Expert
ShallowsNole, if you think it is about pinatas, you are missing the point. You mention communication. What do you think it communicates when a person running for any leadership position in our gov't, decides to take a stick and symbolically beat another person, a black person at that? It wasn't too long ago when black men were hung from tree limbs and beaten to death. It has nothing to do with pinatas. It has to do with what that person communicates to others.
SoWal Expert
Let me add one thing to clarify my point, above. I highly doubt that Mr Nelson was thinking of his actions with the donkey pinata as being hateful toward Sen Obama. However, I think it is important for people running for public office to be aware of the public perception, as well as being respectful to other elected officials. I also think it is important for each of us to be aware of what we are teaching others by their observation of our actions. This goes well-beyond life in politics. I am certainly one for having fun, and whacking a pinata with a stick in order to get some candy seems harmless enough, unless you are blindfolded. I have seen many innocent bystanders rushing to collect the candy, only to have the blind-folded whacker not know, and continue to swing hard. ouch.
Beach Fanatic
When making hiring decisions, I always went with an old HR rule. Three years of experience in a directly related job is equal to one year of college in a related field of study. I view 25 years as a college degree plus 13 years experience. That seems about right to me, and enough to qualify Fuzz for Sheriff a couple of times over.
As far as school board, I think that is a bit different. Every teacher in the school system is required to have a bachelor's degree and certification. The very idea that education credentials aren't as important for the board as they are for the teachers is perplexing to me, and no one can learn the science of teaching and educating through on the job training. It's a horse of a different color entirely.
As far as school board, I think that is a bit different. Every teacher in the school system is required to have a bachelor's degree and certification. The very idea that education credentials aren't as important for the board as they are for the teachers is perplexing to me, and no one can learn the science of teaching and educating through on the job training. It's a horse of a different color entirely.
SoWal Insider
When making hiring decisions, I always went with an old HR rule. Three years of experience in a directly related job is equal to one year of college in a related field of study. I view 25 years as a college degree plus 13 years experience. That seems about right to me, and enough to qualify Fuzz for Sheriff a couple of times over.
As far as school board, I think that is a bit different. Every teacher in the school system is required to have a bachelor's degree and certification. The very idea that education credentials aren't as important for the board as they are for the teachers is perplexing to me, and no one can learn the science of teaching and educating through on the job training. It's a horse of a different color entirely.
It may be different for some people but I learned more from my "on the job (in the classroom) training" than I ever learned in college. By the time I graduated and took a teaching position new techniques were already in place; what I learned in college was "old school" 😀 . As I believe Scooterbug? said, it all has to do with what the degree is for and what career you have. :wave:
Beach Fanatic
It may be different for some people but I learned more from my "on the job (in the classroom) training" than I ever learned in college. By the time I graduated and took a teaching position new techniques were already in place; what I learned in college was "old school" 😀 . As I believe Scooterbug? said, it all has to do with what the degree is for and what career you have. :wave:
Yes, but you couldn't have gotten the experience in the field without the degree, that was my only point. No matter how naturally good you are with young people, you can't get a job teaching straight out of high school and learn the trade on the job.
This thread has me thinking about a woman I worked with in contracting for a health insurance company -- we were both 29 and were both Senior Network Managers. She had a BA, JD, and Masters in Healthcare Administration. I had a BA and five years experience. We were the only women doing this job in the Southern region, so we were patronized a bit. I don't remember how it started, but we somehow ended up working as a team. She was great with legal language and negotiating changes to standard contracts, I was better at explaining to physicians and hospitals how reimbursement models would work for them, training them on the administrative aspects of joining the network, and negotiating fee schedules. Together, we were really good at our job.
With that in mind, I'd be interested to know the backgrounds of the other School Board members. I know Mark Davis is an attorney and a long standing member of the board.
SoWal Expert
My biggest concern is the partisan politics that has become part of this race. College degrees (or lack) and pinatas and experience to me are satellite issues revolving around the bigger picture that is worrying me.
Robert Nelson was the head of the Walton County GOP. When I first started talking to Robert, I thought he could "separate" from his political life when he chose to run for school board- a place where politics has no life, period. IMO, the best thing he could have done was discuss only school board -type issues, instead of keeping himself firmly entrenched in the local Republican party campaign.
I have never heard Mrs. Wilkerson discuss Democrat issues in public - I am sure they are important to her, but being a Democrat does not define who she is. Every conversation I have had with Mildred has been education-related. Robert is totally defined by being a Republican. His postings on SoWal have made that very clear.
If he wins this election, I will move on and work with him and the rest of the board for the good of our schools, and hope that he really can separate himself from party politics and do the same.
Robert Nelson was the head of the Walton County GOP. When I first started talking to Robert, I thought he could "separate" from his political life when he chose to run for school board- a place where politics has no life, period. IMO, the best thing he could have done was discuss only school board -type issues, instead of keeping himself firmly entrenched in the local Republican party campaign.
I have never heard Mrs. Wilkerson discuss Democrat issues in public - I am sure they are important to her, but being a Democrat does not define who she is. Every conversation I have had with Mildred has been education-related. Robert is totally defined by being a Republican. His postings on SoWal have made that very clear.
If he wins this election, I will move on and work with him and the rest of the board for the good of our schools, and hope that he really can separate himself from party politics and do the same.
Checking your forum account
Please wait while we verify your forum account.