Is it possible that the county government will complete subdivisions that are being abandoned?
I noticed that the bonds or guarantees provided by developers to the county and service providers like Regional Utilities are not enough to complete the developments. Who is responsible for ensuring that the projects are completed and not becoming blight on the county.
Some developers can not pay for the taps and are leaving entire subdivisions unfinished. Why would the service providers not assess tap fees on lot by lot basis rather than trying to collect for an entire subdivision.
Is the county going to take over the responsibility of finishing the installation of water and sewer in unfinished subdivisions?
Just a few questions I have. I submit that we might have to rethink about how much we are going to to do or not do to get our economy going. We have to take charge of ourselves and not hope that the State or Federal governments will trickle down to us.
please let me know your feelings.
Replies
37
Beach Fanatic
will probably become one persons loss and anothers gain
Beach Fanatic
Most of those unfinished subdivisions have been, or will be, going back to the bank that lent on the project.
If the County finished these projects off, with our tax dollars, does that then become a gift to the bank, before they sell it to someone else? Or should the County buy these lands, finish them, and then resell? It's not the biz the County's in, but it might be a stimulus, as you say?
But ultimately, who wants to buy the finished lots & build houses there anytime soon? Because, who wants to buy those houses anytime soon?
If the County finished these projects off, with our tax dollars, does that then become a gift to the bank, before they sell it to someone else? Or should the County buy these lands, finish them, and then resell? It's not the biz the County's in, but it might be a stimulus, as you say?
But ultimately, who wants to buy the finished lots & build houses there anytime soon? Because, who wants to buy those houses anytime soon?
Beach Fanatic
The county should definitely not throw any good money after this bad. It has more than enough to do and limited resources to do it with.
SoWal Expert
I am pretty certain that County funds cannot be used to benefit the private sector in this manner. If County funds were used, the public would get to use the project, as I understand law. (I am not a lawyer.)
Beach ComberAuthor
The subdivision's utilities and roads that the county finishes would have to given to the county. The banks that hold the property should have to finish the subdivision at least to a point that the water, sewer, and roads are complete. how else will they sell and regain the investments.
another way of looking at it, if the county finished the subdivisions at least some one would be working and the abanadoned projects will not deteriate beyond repair.
why can't the servcie providers attempt to recoup the losses one lot at a time rather than trying to get all of the money at one time. I would think that one lot would sell quicker than a subdivision.
another way of looking at it, if the county finished the subdivisions at least some one would be working and the abanadoned projects will not deteriate beyond repair.
why can't the servcie providers attempt to recoup the losses one lot at a time rather than trying to get all of the money at one time. I would think that one lot would sell quicker than a subdivision.
Banned
What's with our County Government? They have everything they need in their posession at the time a sub-division is approved and platted to secure the completion. From Driftwood to Hampton Creek and more, the County lets the security instrument (performance bond) be retired before completion. What's the bond for, for God's sake?
SoWal Expert
who wants to be the first lot owner in a subdivision, where he or she would be the only person paying the HOA dues to maintain all of the common elements? I don't think we will see these empty subdivisions being sold off one lot at a time.
Beach ComberAuthor
If individual lots are not sold then the banks must hold onto the subdivisions until someone is willing to purchase the entire property.
The HOA system does not work anyway. Most HOA are unable to provide for the needed maintenance anyway, most are controlled by the developer (driftwood) until enough owners control the majority of lots.
We have some tough times ahead, how are we going to be proactive and not change the way development occurs? Why is it impossible to get the elements needed together to change and improve business.
I advocate making some adjustments in business practices and maybe not helping the banks continue to hold on to bad developments. Until the developers finally sell at a discount, accept the losses, and salvage what they can, Walton County will prolong the pain and need a bailout of some sort.
sorry to seem negative, I'm only hoping to begin a discussion about what the county is going to have to accept and address.
The HOA system does not work anyway. Most HOA are unable to provide for the needed maintenance anyway, most are controlled by the developer (driftwood) until enough owners control the majority of lots.
We have some tough times ahead, how are we going to be proactive and not change the way development occurs? Why is it impossible to get the elements needed together to change and improve business.
I advocate making some adjustments in business practices and maybe not helping the banks continue to hold on to bad developments. Until the developers finally sell at a discount, accept the losses, and salvage what they can, Walton County will prolong the pain and need a bailout of some sort.
sorry to seem negative, I'm only hoping to begin a discussion about what the county is going to have to accept and address.
SoWal Expert
I know of some people who would love to buy projects like Nature's Walk, but with the bond in place, it is too pricey for what it's worth to the buyers.
Development procedures may need to be addressed, but as someone mentioned, the County cannot go around bailing out lenders, without taking ownership in the property. Is it worth it for the County to bail out the developments? Good question, but I don't think it would be enough to start a wave of new buyers, and just guessing here, but I don't think it would generate enough tax revenue to counter the cost. With budgets being so tight this year, I don't think you will see the County even thinking about such a thing. You might have better luck with getting a sponsor of a development, like they do for stadiums in big cities. Instead of it being "NatureWalk," maybe it becomes, "a Google Development."
Development procedures may need to be addressed, but as someone mentioned, the County cannot go around bailing out lenders, without taking ownership in the property. Is it worth it for the County to bail out the developments? Good question, but I don't think it would be enough to start a wave of new buyers, and just guessing here, but I don't think it would generate enough tax revenue to counter the cost. With budgets being so tight this year, I don't think you will see the County even thinking about such a thing. You might have better luck with getting a sponsor of a development, like they do for stadiums in big cities. Instead of it being "NatureWalk," maybe it becomes, "a Google Development."
Beach Fanatic
It seems like government should only play a role if a property is decaying enough to be classified as 'blighted', and even then under fairly limited circumstances to prevent what is seen as blight from spreading.
And it's pretty hard to define what's essentially vacant land as blighted, especially since one common way of dealing with bad urban blight is to bulldoze blighted areas until they resemble vacant subdivisions like NatureWalk's current state. (see essentially entire streets in the city of Detroit)
From what I've seen of the 30-A corridor area, the only subdivision that come close to real blight is the little street in Inlet Beach with 4-6 half-built homes where constructions seems to have just stopped on them for a couple of years.
And it's pretty hard to define what's essentially vacant land as blighted, especially since one common way of dealing with bad urban blight is to bulldoze blighted areas until they resemble vacant subdivisions like NatureWalk's current state. (see essentially entire streets in the city of Detroit)
From what I've seen of the 30-A corridor area, the only subdivision that come close to real blight is the little street in Inlet Beach with 4-6 half-built homes where constructions seems to have just stopped on them for a couple of years.
needs to get out more
The Paris place comes close to 'blight' as does the Aquaterra, although the grass has almost taken it back over. I'd like to see the county take naturewalk via eminent domain and make it a park. but that will never happen.
Beach Fanatic
Get rid of the block wall with the rebar sticking out of the top, and 'Paris' is just another vacant field. Aquaterra's also in vacant field territory.
I don't see anything in SoWal that counts are the kind of scary, community-killing blight you get in so many places big and small across America. When we lived in Tennessee, we had to go through Cairo, Illinois in order to get to St. Louis, MO. Wish we would have stopped there to take pictures because it's a visually stunning example of urban blight and decay, and, unlike Detroit or St. Louis, you didn't feel like you were in danger of physical harm if you stopped the car long enough to point a camera at a building crumbling in interesting ways.
Found someone who did take pictures of it:
http://marathonpundit.blogspot.com/2008/08/my-mississippi-manifest-destiny-cairo.html
Now that is 'proper' blight.
I don't see anything in SoWal that counts are the kind of scary, community-killing blight you get in so many places big and small across America. When we lived in Tennessee, we had to go through Cairo, Illinois in order to get to St. Louis, MO. Wish we would have stopped there to take pictures because it's a visually stunning example of urban blight and decay, and, unlike Detroit or St. Louis, you didn't feel like you were in danger of physical harm if you stopped the car long enough to point a camera at a building crumbling in interesting ways.
Found someone who did take pictures of it:
http://marathonpundit.blogspot.com/2008/08/my-mississippi-manifest-destiny-cairo.html
Now that is 'proper' blight.
SoWal Expert
Big difference between true blight and your "development" not having its taps and cute roads completed.
IMO the only time the County should get involved is if there is a built structure in such disrepair that it is a safety issue.
We have much better things to be spending our limited resources on than fixing up private property so it looks pretty. :roll:
IMO the only time the County should get involved is if there is a built structure in such disrepair that it is a safety issue.
We have much better things to be spending our limited resources on than fixing up private property so it looks pretty. :roll:
SoWal Expert
lets say the County pays for the roads, with concrete ribbon curbing, and the water taps. If no one buys a lot, who the heck will pay for continued maintenance? The County? for what reason? tax revenues would continue to be non-existent, would they not? I just don't see it as a viable way to make things better.
I grew up in a town which is heavy into Historical Preservation of old homes. Recently, the Historical Society was trying to take possession of a house, which the owner had pretended to be renovating for the last thirty years. The house is an eyesore, but does that give gov't entities the right to take private property? Lord, I hope not.
I grew up in a town which is heavy into Historical Preservation of old homes. Recently, the Historical Society was trying to take possession of a house, which the owner had pretended to be renovating for the last thirty years. The house is an eyesore, but does that give gov't entities the right to take private property? Lord, I hope not.
SoWal Expert
Why should the county pay for paving roads and tap fees in these developments when they don't do it anywhere else? 
I love my unpaved road, but know others would like theirs paved and have been waiting for years for it to occur.
Fiscal mismanagement combined with a lack of infrastructure and residents certainly shouldn't be a reason for them to get paved roads before contributing and populated areas.
I am SO tired of people and businesses who are reckless and greedy getting things that hardworking and responsible people/businesses don't.
I love my unpaved road, but know others would like theirs paved and have been waiting for years for it to occur.
Fiscal mismanagement combined with a lack of infrastructure and residents certainly shouldn't be a reason for them to get paved roads before contributing and populated areas.
I am SO tired of people and businesses who are reckless and greedy getting things that hardworking and responsible people/businesses don't.
Banned
Why should the county pay for paving roads and tap fees in these developments when they don't do it anywhere else?
I love my unpaved road, but know others would like theirs paved and have been waiting for years for it to occur.
Fiscal mismanagement combined with a lack of infrastructure and residents certainly shouldn't be a reason for them to get paved roads before contributing and populated areas.
I am SO tired of people and businesses who are reckless and greedy getting things that hardworking and responsible people/businesses don't.
Doesn't the County take on a fiduciary duty to the citizens when it approves a D.O. and takes a security instrument from the Developer to ensure completion? What's the purpose of the performance bond if not for this?
Beach Fanatic
.... a security instrument from the Developer to ensure completion? What's the purpose of the performance bond if not for this?
AA, I second your question .... any County attorney or commissioners out there willing to reply to this? The concept is mostly, I believe, to assure the early lot buyers that the development will be finished -- but it should also assure us neighbors/citizens that it'll be finished.
And John R, I agree with you .... how about NatureWalk being converted into affordable housing sites for public/private development partnerships, for a park, for a day care site, and some commercial, including a cinema site?
Beach ComberAuthor
The county has accepted the duty to make sure that developers install what they promised when given a development permit. The money placed as a security needs to be used to finish as much of the development as possible.
The problem is that this amount of money may not be enough to finish the project when liens are placed on the property by contractors or the utility providers.
Because so much of our economy is based on construction, we are going to have to make the hard choices and force developers to finish their projects or accept the responsibility of the basic services of roads, water, and sewer. The banks will not sink more funds into a project. or will they?
Lets be clear that someone will have to lead, ask who, then make them.
The community needs to be clear about what is going to be required.
The problem is that this amount of money may not be enough to finish the project when liens are placed on the property by contractors or the utility providers.
Because so much of our economy is based on construction, we are going to have to make the hard choices and force developers to finish their projects or accept the responsibility of the basic services of roads, water, and sewer. The banks will not sink more funds into a project. or will they?
Lets be clear that someone will have to lead, ask who, then make them.
The community needs to be clear about what is going to be required.
SoWal Insider
The county DID get involved...it rubber stamped its approval over and over and over again on development requests--that's why we've arrived at this point. For the sake of all that is holy--the county needs to butt out and let the chips fail where they may. If the counties are cryin' the blues over budget shortfalls for fire, cops and schools, wherethehell are they going to find the money to mop up the messes that the developers' left behind?
SWGB
I would bet dollars to donuts that Nature Walk becomes phase V.
needs to get out more
I would bet dollars to donuts that Nature Walk becomes phase V.
thanks a big bet, they can't even move IV...
Banned
The county has accepted the duty to make sure that developers install what they promised when given a development permit. The money placed as a security needs to be used to finish as much of the development as possible.
The problem is that this amount of money may not be enough to finish the project when liens are placed on the property by contractors or the utility providers.
Because so much of our economy is based on construction, we are going to have to make the hard choices and force developers to finish their projects or accept the responsibility of the basic services of roads, water, and sewer. The banks will not sink more funds into a project. or will they?
Lets be clear that someone will have to lead, ask who, then make them.
The community needs to be clear about what is going to be required.
The bond set for performance of the infrastructure improvements is negotiated from the cost of the improvements and securitized prior to the Plat being approved for filing. The lienors you speak of are a part of the infrastructure team. If the bond is insufficient after platting people should be going to jail. If the security instrument expires while the County is the custodian, people should be fired or worse.
There is only one reason these bonds are posted, to gaurantee completion of infrastructure. Some developers opt to not post a bond. Instead they complete the infrastructure first and then their Plat is approved and recorded.
As far as who will lead, it is the County officers who endorse the Plat for Recording. It is at that point in the development cycle that innocent taxpayers are being put in harms way.
SoWal Expert
I'll take that bet, Gayboi. Since I'm not a betting man, I'll limit the wager to one beer. What time frame do you want to give them? Two years? JOE cannot afford to pick up NatureWalk due to the bond on the property.
SWGB
I'll take that bet, Gayboi. Since I'm not a betting man, I'll limit the wager to one beer. What time frame do you want to give them? Two years? JOE cannot afford to pick up NatureWalk due to the bond on the property.
Deal, we're not limiting this to domestic right? I'm comfortable with 2 years.
SoWal Insider
lets say the County pays for the roads, with concrete ribbon curbing, and the water taps. If no one buys a lot, who the heck will pay for continued maintenance? The County? for what reason? tax revenues would continue to be non-existent, would they not? I just don't see it as a viable way to make things better.
I grew up in a town which is heavy into Historical Preservation of old homes. Recently, the Historical Society was trying to take possession of a house, which the owner had pretended to be renovating for the last thirty years. The house is an eyesore, but does that give gov't entities the right to take private property? Lord, I hope not.
Certain judges in the Supreme Court feel that the answer is yes, the city does have the right. Further, they feel cities have the right to turn that property over to WaMart so new tax revenue can be generated from it.
Checking your forum account
Please wait while we verify your forum account.