SWFD has decided not to fly beach condition flags during the off season! The reason given was that we are becoming to accustomed to the flags and will begin to ignore them.
http://www.wjhg.com/home/headlines/36901724.html
Is it just me, or does anyone else think this is the dumbest thing you've seen in a long time? I know we can check the conditions on the SWFD website, but do you think the tourists will know that?
Can anyone else make sense of this move? Anyone from the SWFD seeing this post? Someone explain it to me, if you can. People can drown in the off season just as easily as the tourist season. Do you really think we should make it even easier?
Replies
36
SoWal Expert
What is considered the off season? 
IMO, unless there is a major fiscal reason for this decision it is a major step backward after all of the education efforts to get people to pay attention to the flags!
I see stop signs and red lights every day and still know to stop for them, so I am not buying the "accustomed to" argument.
IMO, unless there is a major fiscal reason for this decision it is a major step backward after all of the education efforts to get people to pay attention to the flags!
I see stop signs and red lights every day and still know to stop for them, so I am not buying the "accustomed to" argument.
SoWal Insider
Is it just me, or does anyone else think this is the dumbest thing you've seen in a long time?
...the dumbest thing I've seen in a long time was Congress handing over a $700 Billion check to Hank Paulson--but I've gotta admit, the explanation given for not flying the warning flags is pretty damn dumb too.
Have they consulted Seamore the Safety Crab about this decision?
.
Edited
SoWal Insider
My 8 year old looked down the beach to Rosemary's flag yesterday and announced, "Mom! It's yellow! We can go in the water!"
If there are idiots who don't follow the flag system, that is their problem. I would imagine most people find it very helpful.
IMO the only offseason is Jan-Feb. Do they want to be responsible for ticking off the snowbirds?
If there are idiots who don't follow the flag system, that is their problem. I would imagine most people find it very helpful.
IMO the only offseason is Jan-Feb. Do they want to be responsible for ticking off the snowbirds?
Beach Fanatic
This makes no sense to us -- just because it's off season. What about the locals? Are we just not important anymore? We all spend so much time and energy trying to make people aware of the flag system and now it's just too much trouble to fly them when the tourist population is lessened .... 
beats on hood
SWFD has decided not to fly beach condition flags during the off season! The reason given was that we are becoming to accustomed to the flags and will begin to ignore them.I saw this on WJHG last night and couldn't believe it.
http://www.wjhg.com/home/headlines/36901724.html
Is it just me, or does anyone else think this is the dumbest thing you've seen in a long time? I know we can check the conditions on the SWFD website, but do you think the tourists will know that?
Can anyone else make sense of this move? Anyone from the SWFD seeing this post? Someone explain it to me, if you can. People can drown in the off season just as easily as the tourist season. Do you really think we should make it even easier?
"According to the International Life Saving Federations, safety flags should only be flown on beaches with on-duty lifeguards. Gary Wise with the Beach Safety Division said, "If those lifeguards are not on duty to reflect the conditions of the water then the beach flags that are flying may not actually represent the condition of the water at the time. But some locals say a flag, even if it's the wrong flag, is better than nothing."
I mean, there are days where it is warm enough to go into the water. If the county is trying to save money in the off-season, maybe there should be a new flag that indicates that surf conditions are not being monitored, so swim at your own risk?
The argument that it's okay because people ignore the flags since they have become accustomed to them is just ludicrous IMO.
Edited
SoWal Expert
We have an official organization that monitors beach conditions and changes the flags 2x a day.
We have a transient population utilizing the beaches at all times of the year.
We have only a handful of locations w/ lifeguards and only at certain times.
We have spend millions and millions of dollars on print, tv, radio, magnets, and handouts to educate people about the system.
And now we are going to throw that all away?
I am a strong swimmer and very aware of changing conditions and I still check the flags religiously - even when I am not going to be actively on the beach/in the water (mild OCD is funn
).
Seriously, is the plan to have enough people drown so we can justify full time lifeguards at all public accesses?
We have a transient population utilizing the beaches at all times of the year.
We have only a handful of locations w/ lifeguards and only at certain times.
We have spend millions and millions of dollars on print, tv, radio, magnets, and handouts to educate people about the system.
And now we are going to throw that all away?
I am a strong swimmer and very aware of changing conditions and I still check the flags religiously - even when I am not going to be actively on the beach/in the water (mild OCD is funn
).Seriously, is the plan to have enough people drown so we can justify full time lifeguards at all public accesses?
beats on hood
We have an official organization that monitors beach conditions and changes the flags 2x a day.Amen, sistah! You, too, analogman.
We have a transient population utilizing the beaches at all times of the year.
We have only a handful of locations w/ lifeguards and only at certain times.
We have spend millions and millions of dollars on print, tv, radio, magnets, and handouts to educate people about the system.
And now we are going to throw that all away?
I am a strong swimmer and very aware of changing conditions and I still check the flags religiously - even when I am not going to be actively on the beach/in the water (mild OCD is funn
Seriously, is the plan to have enough people drown so we can justify full time lifeguards at all public accesses?
Beach Lover
okay, let's go with pulling pieces/parts out of the report from the "fair and balanced" media...
According to the International Life Saving Federation, safety flags should only be flown on beaches with on-duty lifeguards.
Gary Wise with the Beach Safety Division said, "If those lifeguards are not on duty to reflect the conditions of the water then the beach flags that are flying may not actually represent the condition of the water at the time."
I believe there are already signs at each of these locations that state that when no lifeguards are on duty you are swimming at your own risk.
When the "season" is over and the lifeguards aren't there to change the flags who does that?
According to the International Life Saving Federation, safety flags should only be flown on beaches with on-duty lifeguards.
Gary Wise with the Beach Safety Division said, "If those lifeguards are not on duty to reflect the conditions of the water then the beach flags that are flying may not actually represent the condition of the water at the time."
I believe there are already signs at each of these locations that state that when no lifeguards are on duty you are swimming at your own risk.
When the "season" is over and the lifeguards aren't there to change the flags who does that?
Beach Fanatic
okay, let's go with pulling pieces/parts out of the report from the "fair and balanced" media...
According to the International Life Saving Federation, safety flags should only be flown on beaches with on-duty lifeguards.
Gary Wise with the Beach Safety Division said, "If those lifeguards are not on duty to reflect the conditions of the water then the beach flags that are flying may not actually represent the condition of the water at the time."
I believe there are already signs at each of these locations that state that when no lifeguards are on duty you are swimming at your own risk.
When the "season" is over and the lifeguards aren't there to change the flags who does that?
SWFD. They did it before we even had lifeguards on our beaches and they could still do it.
Bad idea not to continue to monitor the water and change the flags even in the off season.
-1 Chief......:nono1:
SWGB
Okay seriously, raise your hand if you are going in the water today. This makes sense to me as everybody complains about government waste. The county goes and makes a decision to not send out fire fighters in a truck to change the flags along 19 miles of beaches when no one in their right mind is going in the water. Seriously if you're going to ignore the temperature are you really going to pay attention to the flags?
Anybody care to guess what it costs the county to have firefighters and the truck go to each flag 2 times a day?
Anybody care to guess what it costs the county to have firefighters and the truck go to each flag 2 times a day?
beats on hood
Okay seriously, raise your hand if you are going in the water today. This makes sense to me as everybody complains about government waste. The county goes and makes a decision to not send out fire fighters in a truck to change the flags along 19 miles of beaches when no one in their right mind is going in the water. Seriously if you're going to ignore the temperature are you really going to pay attention to the flags?My nephews will be in the water. Seriously.
Anybody care to guess what it costs the county to have firefighters and the truck go to each flag 2 times a day?
But I see your point, too.
SWGB
My nephews will be in the water. Seriously.
But I see your point, too.
Oh I don't doubt that, when we were little my sister couldn't pass a body of water without getting in. No matter how cold it was.
My point was more budgetary than anything. Everybody's freaking over the county budget and this comes up. If you've ever seen the fire department changing flags it's never less than 2 fire fighters and they are driving either the ladder or the engine truck. I don't understand why this job doesn't fall to a certain employee who doesn't have any lifeguards to monitor during the winter. :scratch:
needs to get out more
If the county is trying to save money in the off-season, maybe there should be a new flag that indicates that surf conditions are not being monitored, so swim at your own risk?
The argument that it's okay because people ignore the flags since they have become accustomed to them is just ludicrous IMO.
that would be the black flag.
so, we need to save money because we are in off season. Is all our lodging sitting at 0% occ? what happens when one tourist drowns and the remaining family feels like they're due compensation because one of them went to the beach and took a photo of the flag rating sign with an empty flagpole in the background? we want the tourists here all the time right? are we going to turn off the beach next?
one person in a pickup could probably do the flag job.
Edited
SoWal Insider
Oh I don't doubt that, when we were little my sister couldn't pass a body of water without getting in. No matter how cold it was.
My point was more budgetary than anything. Everybody's freaking over the county budget and this comes up. If you've ever seen the fire department changing flags it's never less than 2 fire fighters and they are driving either the ladder or the engine truck. I don't understand why this job doesn't fall to a certain employee who doesn't have any lifeguards to monitor during the winter. :scratch:
Better yet, just hang a black skull & crossbones flag up and send notification throughout the area that beaches are closed to swimmers until "flag season" starts up again.
Beach Fanatic
Can anyone else make sense of this move? Anyone from the SWFD seeing this post? Someone explain it to me, if you can. People can drown in the off season just as easily as the tourist season. Do you really think we should make it even easier?
Winter tourists are smarter and more capable swimmers?
Beach Lover
Maybe someone from SWFD fire board or the TDC could explain this.
The Someone who does not have lifegards to watch could not possible change 26 miles of flags in a timley manner. Could he??
When SWFD changes the Flags they send 3 Fire Engines and 2 Ladder Trucks With a Min. of 3 firefighters on each and 4 EMS Units with 2 firefighters on it. and it still takes about 1 hour for this. I received this from a friend at SWFD
It would make more sence for WCSO Beach units to change them as they can drive the beaches and change them in a lot less time than a fire truck driving the road and walking to the beach.
The Someone who does not have lifegards to watch could not possible change 26 miles of flags in a timley manner. Could he??
When SWFD changes the Flags they send 3 Fire Engines and 2 Ladder Trucks With a Min. of 3 firefighters on each and 4 EMS Units with 2 firefighters on it. and it still takes about 1 hour for this. I received this from a friend at SWFD
It would make more sence for WCSO Beach units to change them as they can drive the beaches and change them in a lot less time than a fire truck driving the road and walking to the beach.
SWGB
Maybe someone from SWFD fire board or the TDC could explain this.
The Someone who does not have lifegards to watch could not possible change 26 miles of flags in a timley manner. Could he??
When SWFD changes the Flags they send 3 Fire Engines and 2 Ladder Trucks With a Min. of 3 firefighters on each and 4 EMS Units with 2 firefighters on it. and it still takes about 1 hour for this. I received this from a friend at SWFD
It would make more sence for WCSO Beach units to change them as they can drive the beaches and change them in a lot less time than a fire truck driving the road and walking to the beach.
Why stop there, the TDC runs the beach every morning too. So many vehicles and no one with the time to change flags?
SoWal Expert
Don't forget the sehriff is also cruisingth beach in the little ATV or in the pick-ups
Beach Fanatic
This is crazy! I understand the finances behind it -- but I think they are better ways to adjust that than to do away with the program all together. If the flags aren't consistantly there than you loose the ability to rely on them!
Beach Fanatic
Beach flags were called twice a day, 09:00 and 13:00. If you want the flags changed, 267-1090 is the office number. Only one lifeguard on year round payroll, Gary Wise, and sometimes there are ten peices of Emergency equipment changing flags. As for who pays, the TDC has a contract with SWFD as I understand it, I also don't believe they were over budget for this service and SWFD was low bidder as I understand it. Although I could be wrong.
Beach Lover
This is crazy! I understand the finances behind it -- but I think they are better ways to adjust that than to do away with the program all together. If the flags aren't consistantly there than you loose the ability to rely on them!
The program is not going away all together as indicated yesterday. The conditions as I understand it are still monitored twice a day. Signs explaining the flags and that they are not always present are posted and lifeguard are not on duty during this timeframe. Locals-who help our visitors understand this. Those that get into trouble with or without flags are still helped when 911 is called.
Beach Fanatic
Anybody care to guess what it costs the county to have firefighters and the truck go to each flag 2 times a day?I always thought this was a crazy way to do it. Buy a Prius and a radio and hire someone who could use a job, send the bill to the TDC. What they threw away on the big blue signs would pay for that for, oh, a few years anyway.
The way I read what was posted here, flags are not recommended on beaches without lifeguards. So what happens when summer comes? Are the only flags going to be where the lifeguards are, which, it seems, are the places they are needed the least?
I don't see lifeguards anywhere else anytime soon. As has been discussed on many threads, the accesses may be public, but the beaches are not necessarily so. Besides which, you cannot put lifeguards where there are no restrooms.
I have seen lots of people in the water lately.
SoWal Expert
We've had flags on the beaches for years w/o lifeguards, so my BS meter is pinging that they are using that as the reason for discontinuing the program now.
We've spent years and millions implementing this system, and now that it's standard and well known we are stopping it because of how much time/manpower it takes and the fact that there aren't lifeguards at all these locations? Nope. Sell crazy somewhere else.
There are plenty of employees whose job is already to patrol the beach in provided vehicles - if manpower is an issue perhaps we could just use one vehicle and one person instead of a fleet of specialized vehicles and a brigade of personnel.
We've spent years and millions implementing this system, and now that it's standard and well known we are stopping it because of how much time/manpower it takes and the fact that there aren't lifeguards at all these locations? Nope. Sell crazy somewhere else.
There are plenty of employees whose job is already to patrol the beach in provided vehicles - if manpower is an issue perhaps we could just use one vehicle and one person instead of a fleet of specialized vehicles and a brigade of personnel.
Beach Fanatic
Why is it everyone thinks that the flags are changed two times a day every day? The conditions are checked 2 times a day and the flags are changed only when there is a change in conditions. The flags can stay yellow for long periods without needing to be changed.
Beach Fanatic
Winter tourists are smarter and more capable swimmers?
Here I was trying to be funny and Enfuego goes and gives me a red chiclet. So I guess if we are going to play that way..........
Just to make sure we understand here.
No Beach Flags 01-01-2009 11:33 AM SoWal Beaches Forum That is offensiveIf you think that is offensive, hold on to your socks, big boy.
Edited
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