Do We Desperately Need Drive-Thrus?

If you want some input, email Pat Blackshear, Director of the Planning Department (email address at Walton County, Florida Online) and the entire BCC (email addresses at Walton County, Florida Online) expressing why you oppose the drive-throughs. Sounds like incompatibility. Also, email the South Walton Community Council http://www.southwaltoncc.org/mc/page...838&orgId=swcc to get their help.

This proposal for fast food/ drive-thru restaurants ties to a larger issue looming in Walton County, the EAR amendments. If you're not aware, the county has been going through a whole slew of related elements. The planning department and planning commissioners have been holding public workshops at the annex for some time now.

The issue for many folks is not so much that they want fast food, it's that they want convenient and less expensive food and they automatically jump to the conclusion that McDonalds (or other) fills that need. There are many other options available and it would be great if a local food business could figure out how to creatively solve this problem, whether the food be healthy fare or bar-b-que sandwiches wrapped in bacon.

Back to the amendments, the larger issue is that the County desperately needs a new vision for how it will grow and meet the needs of its citizens and tourists. Zoning has been bounced around this site quite a bit, but there is a new venture underway as we type, based on transect based planning.

For all those people who have voiced their opinions here about fast food & drive-thru's, please stay tuned. These issues are related and there will be more coming down the pike.

As for the community garden, the time is approaching that this will become more viable. The Seaside Garden is well under way, there's lots of talk about starting others and ACT (Agriculture and Community Together) Walton is behind these efforts as well. The next ACT Walton meeting is March 17 at 3:00 at the library. These meetings are open to the public and are for anyone interested in local food, agriculture, CSA's, community gardens, restaurants, farmers, etc.

I don't understand how this brings in anything but fast food?

Chain restaurants can build on 98 all day long. How many Denny's, Chili's, Applebee's, TGIF's, Waffle Houses, Chotchkies, or Shenanigan's have drive thru's?

I remember working in rentals when a woman came in to check out and in tears, I'm not kidding, complained that there was no where to eat. Me and my manager looked at her dumbfounded and asked what she meant. She explained they had to drive all the way into Destin or PCB to get food from McDonald's, Taco Bell, and others. We apologized holding back laughter and she turned and left.

I guess my point is that despite the mismash of things we have here in South Walton Fast Food does not work into that equation.

We spend our vacation dollars in SoWal precisely because of the lack of fast food chain atmosphere and appurtenant commercialization. I know how to drive to Destin and PCB and would stay there if I wanted drive-throughs and highrise towers.

I agree with the goose/golden egg post. Please don't let it happen there. What's next ... bumper boats and go-karts?

If you want some input, email Pat Blackshear, Director of the Planning Department (email address at Walton County, Florida Online) and the entire BCC (email addresses at Walton County, Florida Online) expressing why you oppose the drive-throughs. Sounds like incompatibility. Also, email the South Walton Community Council http://www.southwaltoncc.org/mc/page...838&orgId=swcc to get their help.

If you have a strong opinion on this issue, please call our new Dst 5 Cty. Commissioner, Ms. Ceceila Jones. Attending the next BCC meeting would help too. This could be a new wave of purging the apathy we have seen in our section of the county. Stand up and speak for what you believe!

I agree with the goose/golden egg post. Please don't let it happen there. What's next ... bumper boats and go-karts?

What about Big Kahuna at Nature Walk?

If you have a strong opinion on this issue, please call our new Dst 5 Cty. Commissioner, Ms. Ceceila Jones. Attending the next BCC meeting would help too. This could be a new wave of purging the apathy we have seen in our section of the county. Stand up and speak for what you believe!

I'll have to rely on emails and letters. I have a full-time job and live in Georgia, so I can't attend Tuesday night meetings. In the past I could justify taking off from work on Tuesday afternoons and Wednesday mornings when a developer was trying to build condos next door to us. But I can't for a larger issue. Surely enough of you are concerned enough to physically represent out-of-towners like me.

I will call Ms. Jones.

I agree with the goose/golden egg post. Please don't let it happen there. What's next ... bumper boats and go-karts?

What about Big Kahuna at Nature Walk?

Oh, Jesus!

If you have a strong opinion on this issue, please call our new Dst 5 Cty. Commissioner, Ms. Ceceila Jones. Attending the next BCC meeting would help too. This could be a new wave of purging the apathy we have seen in our section of the county. Stand up and speak for what you believe!

I think you'd be amazed how quickly this community comes together when the character of this area is threatened. Remember the blue signs? This is way worse.

I LOVE the idea of a community garden.

Is anyone aware of the co-op in Red Bay started by Charlie Morgan? It's a farmer's market/co-op/cafe that will serve to preserve the sense of community. That might compliment a community garden really well.

community gardens in New York City. The Trust for Public Land works on providing parks, community gardens, and green spaces all over the country...through its Parks for People program.


New York City Community Gardens, New York City Community Gardens Success Stories: The Trust for Public Land

I would love to see Sowal have a community vegetable garden.

Also wouldn't it be nice if the community would come together and find ways to solve whatever problem there is with getting food cheaper and faster...in some way other than building "cookie cutter" junk food places with drive-thrus. Surely, there is a more community compatible way to solve the problem.

I can think of ONE time I desperately needed fast food on 30A/98, but I made do with Cheetos, bean dip and Fritos from the place down the road from Grumpy's.

Thanks for the emails again, BR. I'll get to writing.

I can think of ONE time I desperately needed fast food on 30A/98, but I made do with Cheetos, bean dip and Fritos from the place down the road from Grumpy's.

Thanks for the emails again, BR. I'll get to writing.

I can think of ONE time I desperately needed fast food on 30A/98, but I made do with Cheetos, bean dip and Fritos from the place down the road from Grumpy's.

Thanks for the emails again, BR. I'll get to writing.

Are you SURE you didn't get a tat that night?

You're welcome. Believe me, I've emailed them countless times. It worked.;-)

It isn't that there isn't a wide variety of take-out food items available on 30-A/98, it's that people don't seem to realize there is take-out food when there isn't a clown's mouth or some arches. :roll:

Yes, let's sell out our greatest strength -- the thing that sets us apart from Panama City and every other geography of nowhere, beach edition town -- away for an everlasting solution to a short term problem. This is exactly the type of short term thinking that will undermine everything that makes this community so special. It will only serve to reduce the future tourism revenue. I believe it was Mary Brown with the TDC who pointed out that today SoWal attracts a high dollar per capita tourist compared to other counties -- maximizes tourist revenues while minimizing impact. Those tourists choose SoWal for it's natural, scenic, organic character. A bunch of McDonaldlands and parking lots will send them in search of the next quaint beach town.

I'm sorry, but I just don't buy that a McDonalds = opportunity. I've seen too many fast food restaurants in miserable and destitute neighborhoods to buy that one. Put the drive-thrus in District 4!

May I make one suggestion before you run off half cocked. Why don't you call Commissioner Commander and see what she has to say about the about the situation. BTW, I agree with you about the drive thrus. That is why I suggest calling your County Commissioner or the one you feel is responsible for the suggestion. I did and found the information offered enlightening. I still do not agree with drive thrus in the scenic SoWal area. It sometimes seems our County Commissioners are berated before they can even explain their thoughts on a subject.

I absolutely agree. Community gardens are so good in so many essential and far-reaching ways. A dear friend and colleague of mine (the amazingly talented Chandra Hartman) designed the lovely permculture garden at Seaside Neighborhood School, which in my view could serve as a model for other neighborhoods.... Wouldn't it be cool if -- given all the publicly owned land there is in Walton County -- there were some way to create small community gardens in walking/biking/wagon-pulling distance of every citizen!! I know in DeFuniak they are starting a community garden, on land that is owned, I think, by the water utility.

It would also be great to have fast, reasonably priced takeout food (I prefer mine HEALTHY too, not fried, buttered to death, reconstituted, carb/chemical/sugar-loaded or engineered!) available close by for those times when I'm too pooped to make it myself. I have even looked into opening such a restaurant, because frankly, I like my own cooking better than what I can get in most restaurants around here. At the time, rent/mortgage was too high to make the numbers work at realistic volumes.

There was a Thai place in Grayton that kept opening and closing under different management and never seemed to hang on. I have assumed that was their problem -- volume/price/rent didn't work? (There is probably some commercial real estate term or formula for what I'm talking about, huh?)

I think the complete lack of inventory of old, paid-for residential and commercial spaces is at the root of so many challenges our community faces. It is one of the difficult aspects of any new community that has experienced rapid growth. High rents are just a fact of life because none of the mortgages are paid off. I am not clever enough to sort out how to solve that, but invite some $$ brilliant person to chime right in with ideas.

community gardens in New York City. The Trust for Public Land works on providing parks, community gardens, and green spaces all over the country...through its Parks for People program.


New York City Community Gardens, New York City Community Gardens Success Stories: The Trust for Public Land

I would love to see Sowal have a community vegetable garden.

Also wouldn't it be nice if the community would come together and find ways to solve whatever problem there is with getting food cheaper and faster...in some way other than building "cookie cutter" junk food places with drive-thrus. Surely, there is a more community compatible way to solve the problem.

AT yesterday's Planning Commission meeting, it was announced that there is to be a vision meeting at the annex, I believe at 9 a.m. on March 18 (call Planning Dept. for precise info -- 267.1955). If I understand it right, this is related to the Economic Development Alliance which apparently has just hired its first director.

I won't be able to attend the meeting, but sure hope some of you will so you can report on what happens.


This proposal for fast food/ drive-thru restaurants ties to a larger issue looming in Walton County, the EAR amendments. If you're not aware, the county has been going through a whole slew of related elements. The planning department and planning commissioners have been holding public workshops at the annex for some time now.

I am also thinking the issue ties to BCC meetings down here that begin early and end late, causing people to be hungry when they leave and no quick bites in sight. A big complaint among the county employees who come down here from DeFuniak is that there is nowhere to eat lunch (and you know this gets back to the BCC). Obviously we do have places to eat; what they really mean is that there is nowhere that doesn't require someone not familiar with South Walton and our local restaurants to look up a phone number and menu, call ahead, go and come back and eat within one hour.

Most of us are not opposed to these types of food purveyors being on 331 or 98, but 30-A isn't the place.

Shallows Nole, good points. You shine a light on the need for mixed use as opposed to monoculture (only one kind of use in a certain area, so you have to drive to get to other uses/things you do in your day) in our development patterns. Ideally, there would be restaurants, coffee shops, and perhaps a small grocery/convenience store located right there with the county buildings, the school, Chamber, Bulding Dept., etc., so that people working and conducting business there could walk to eateries. This would reduce auto trips and traffic dangers, reduce fuel consumption and expense, reduce pollution, encourage exercise, save people time so they could relax and enjoy lunch instead of rushing, on and on.

Besides that, I believe it would make life and work generally more pleasant for anyone required to go into those horribly designed buildings that are poorly heated and cooled, poorly lit, ugly, and all around unfriendly to the human uses for which they were supposedly designed. It might even encourage new level of conviviality that is sadly missing in many of our rushed drive-everywhere lives. Imagine, if people actually had a reason to use all those lovely sidewalks!

You just hit the nail on the head, and it is already underway. It is called Publix and it will be opened this fall just one mile East of 393 on 98 and just a few miles from the 331 Annex. Grocery and fast food all in one building.

There.....problem solved.

The Board of County Commissioners has asked the Planning Department to look into changing the code to allow drive-thru restaurants in areas zoned Village Mixed Use. It seems one of the commissioners feels that the problem with SoWal is the lack of places for people to get food to enjoy in the car. Currently, drive-thrus are allowed only in the Miramar area...the VMU change would impact 98 as well as parts of 30A.

Is the lack of 20 or 30 national chain fast food restaurants really a curse? I kinda consider it a blessing.

Sara Comander has asked staff to draft an ordinance to make the change to change the VMU. Apparently, the ordinance will not be ready in time for the March 12 Planning meeting and will be continued, so we have time to weigh in with our commissioners.

So it is a better deal to use the government and the force of law to prevent people from having choices? Why not let them come into the area and then just do not eat there? Why are some wanting it stopped for competitive reasons? If the rest of us have to deal with the internet and Walmart it is only fair that the eateries can learn to compete with McDonalds.

So it is a better deal to use the government and the force of law to prevent people from having choices? Why not let them come into the area and then just do not eat there? Why are some wanting it stopped for competitive reasons? If the rest of us have to deal with the internet and Walmart it is only fair that the eateries can learn to compete with McDonalds.

That's a laissez-faire response. Sometimes they are appropriate. But, I think not, in this specific case.

We all agree that South Walton has a vacation-based economy. It seems to me that the folks who vacation here do so because they prefer the SoWal experience over that found in PCB and Destin and other, more commercialized, venues.

It's not as simple as "build it and they won't eat there". It's more like "build it and now it's built and there to stay". Whether the McD stays open or closes, either way it has now chipped away at what attracted people here in the first place. Enough of that, and there will be less people renting, buying, and building houses and condos in SoWal, not to mention shopping and eating here.

I don't see the drive through restriction as harmful, in fact quite the opposite. To me, it's as beneficial as the building height limitation, which has, in my opinion, proven over time to be a significant commercial advantage to SoWal vs. other Gulf coast vacation destinations.

And a minor point, I don't think any of the posters speaking out in opposition here operate an eatery on 30A. We ARE against drive throughs for competitive reasons, though, because we're wanting to keep 30A competitive against other vacation areas.

I thought gov't was about promoting the will of the people -- i.e., their choices. Citizens of every community, at least in theory, can have some part in determining how it should grow and develop, which also means determining how it should not grow and develop (choices).

Making those choices requires envisioning, deciding and planning-- or through inaction failing to envision, decide and plan -- how we want our community to look, feel, and perform. If the people want a community that supports local businesses, walkability, sustainability, availablility of healthy food and perhaps a thriving public realm; but does not invite or even allow more sprawl, parking-lot blight and car-dominated living; if they determine that fast food drive-throughs are a part of that unwanted scenario; then it stands to reason that such establishments might be discouraged or prohibited in favor of the kinds of establishments that serve the community's overall vision and plan.

Every visioning document I've ever seen, and every visioning process I've ever participated in for Walton County suggest that the citizens prefer the sustainable, thriving, local business, walkable type community in preference to the resource-depleting, sense-of-place-destroying, "geography-of-nowhere" creating, chain-store, fast-food, big-box, parking-lot sprawl type "community".

That doesn't mean the folks have said they don't want take out, but maybe it means they would rather buy take out from friends and neighbors operating small businessses where every dollar they spend is multiplied so many times in our town, than spend their takeout dollars with faceless multinational corporations who have become masterful at the rapid extraction of dollars from local economies into the hands of corporate execs' bonus checks. And that maybe they'd rather bike or stroll to the takeout shop and perhaps meet a friend or two along the way, instead of doing that whole isolating car drive-through thing.

All that said, I love a seven-layer burrito with lots of enchilada sauce from Taco Bell, and regard it as a treat now and then when my monthly trip to town (PC or Destin) takes me near a Taco Bell. But if I had a Taco Bell nearby, it wouldn't be such a treat, and my jeans would be too small in a hurry. Please, don't bring fast food chains any closer, my willpower isn't strong enough!

ASH, the Publix may help, but it will still require people to get in cars and drive, rather than having lunch and snacks in easy walking distance.

You just hit the nail on the head, and it is already underway. It is called Publix and it will be opened this fall just one mile East of 393 on 98 and just a few miles from the 331 Annex. Grocery and fast food all in one building.

There.....problem solved.

...and with the South Walton campus of the NWF College being ready soon...how wonderful if there was a place where college students could mingle with professionals working at the Government Center.

There are so many choices that can be made within a framework that maintains the compatiblity of our area...why wouldn't we want to retain a "sense of place" that enhances the area, rather than degrades it.

It's not about choice or no choice. It is about finding the best choice among many good choices!