Proposed Countywide Noise Ordinance

The one thing I note by all posting is a lack of, "there must be a complaint" before action of any kind can be taken. IMO, most people will have to feel severely harassed before the file a complaint with law enforcement.

Exactly...I dont think that enough business owners elsewhere realize that this will affect everyone, not just 30A. Thats why I brought up Sandestin, and Freeport and Defuniak. I have a feeling they arent paying attention because they think "oh, its just those people on 30A" but the owners of every establishment that has entertainment needs to be at the meeting in June. I think that all the media outlets need to get this out there and contact the people in Miramar, Sandestin, Freeport, and Defuniak to bring them up to speed on this.

Businesses within the city limits are not affected by these ordinances. And it seems that as far as businesses go, Pandora's is the only one generating complaints. So this may have little to no affect on anyone else.

I may be wrong, but it appears you do not attend many BCC meetings, do you?

Didn't used to.

You are all making great points and in some ways the ordinance seems pointless and very well may be but what other options do we have. At least with an ordinance we can have a set of rules to refer to in court. I still feel like everything would be fine but for a small number of vocal people. The music scene has not changed so much as to warrant all this trouble. So how do we make the will of the majority known and respected?
I know nothing about the cops having decimel meters. If they do, then why don't they want to use them? I do know that it has been proposed before but always gets shot down. My understanding of why is vague at best. As far as buying sound measuring equipment, if we propose that we need to include a way to pay for it in our proposal. Personally I am open to anything that gives me a fair chance to work and a nice place to go when I'm off. If we can keep a few tourist in town helping our economy, that would sure be nice too. My thinking all along has been to try to work out a fair ordinance but it seems like quite a few people would like to see it defeated all together. I am not against that but I have to ask what can we do instead to protect our rights.?

We need Smiling Joe. He seems to have done the research on similiar ordinances in other municipalities.

Businesses within the city limits are not affected by these ordinances. And it seems that as far as businesses go, Pandora's is the only one generating complaints. So this may have little to no affect on anyone else.

did you just get here?

Decimal (a number system based on 10), decimel (no such word). Decibel is the word we need to use here. Or...we all could just start using the abbreviation "dB" meter. It's easier and you don't have to spell it at all.

did you just get here?

Yesterday, why?

according to many court cases, other counties and cities don't have good models to copy. Maybe there are some which work, but it is difficult to locate if the squeaky wheel isn't squeaking.

I'm not speaking for the Sheriff, but I think I understand his point of view to which he hinted on Monday evening at the meeting. I've read similar thoughts from other Sheriff's Depts in other areas which have had issues with noise ordinances. The Sheriff doesn't want his deputies on scene for a noise violation, waiting with his decibel meter, for 30 minutes, waiting to detect five minutes of "excessive" noise, when they could be out fighting crime. The Sheriff would rather see Code Enforcement dealing with these minor infractions. However, Code Enforcement doesn't work after 5pm, nor on the weekends. Remember the proposed lighting ordinance? Code Enforcement was going to be in charge, but that would mean having an on-call agent for alleged violations. Many of the officers live north of Freeport, and by the time they drive to the complaint, it may be no longer, and thus a complete waste of money and time, for some arbitrarily enforced infraction.

I'm clueless when it comes to sound and decible meters. I'll leave that to John R and analogman. I'm curious, is it possible to set a decible meter to block out unamplified human voice (an exception from the proposed ordinance), wind noise, ocean waves, etc, and detect solely the amplified voice or instruments to see if someone is in violation?

On another note, if I were an attorney (and I am not), and I was handling a case on noise complaints, even when a decible meter was used, I would ask the question of the officer who cited the defendant, "How did you calculate the distance from the boundary of the offending property? The (proposed) Ordinance states that you must be 50 ft from the property's boundary. Do you know exactly where the boundary of the property is located? Did you use a survey to determine it?" etc. As one girl stated at the meeting, if the wind changes direction, the detectable sound at one location will also change.

We do need to go back to being good neighbors. We ARE a family-friendly sleepy little village in South Walton. We need to be respectful of others, and that works both ways. 10:00pm lights out is rather crazy on a Friday or Saturday night in my opinion. The sun will set around 9pm in the busy season, and bars are to stop having music one hour after sunset? Crazy! At least extend the hours for businesses to midnight on Friday and Saturday, and maybe 10-11pm on the weekdays.

One last thing I would like to acknowledge: When one of the Commissioners was in a round about way, asking the Sheriff if the existing Grayton ordinance was a good one, (s)he did so by asking, "Have there been any violations of the Grayton ordinance?"

The Sheriff responded by stating, "Only the one location (Pandora's)."

If you didn't know anything about Grayton, that sounds like only one place is a repeated offender. The rest of the story is that in area defined by the Grayton noise ordinance, only one place (Pandora's) is serving alcohol after 10pm, the time the noise ordinance begins. Red Bar stops serving, and Borago's doesn't even have live music. All other businesses in Grayton are closed by this time. So, while it may sound like only one place has a continued problem, it is really more like 33.3% of the restaurant/bars in Grayton DO have a problems with the existing (unConstitutional) noise ordinance of Grayton, and therefore, the Grayton noise ordinance isn't working, nor is it a decent model for which to base a County-wide ordinance.

Exactly...I dont think that enough business owners elsewhere realize that this will affect everyone, not just 30A. Thats why I brought up Sandestin, and Freeport and Defuniak. I have a feeling they arent paying attention because they think "oh, its just those people on 30A" but the owners of every establishment that has entertainment needs to be at the meeting in June. I think that all the media outlets need to get this out there and contact the people in Miramar, Sandestin, Freeport, and Defuniak to bring them up to speed on this.

One note, this proposed ordinance does have exceptions noted, and it is specifically for the "unicorporated" areas of Walton County. Freeport, Mossy Head, Paxton and Dufuniak may have their own ordinances regarding noise, but they are not included in this proposed ordinance.

SJ, all the technical questions you ask were asked and answered when the existing ordinance was adopted. There were many, many hearings, and the county hired a very good consultant specifically because it is a technical matter.
Grayton opted out and elected to keep its existing ordinance, which predated the ordinance for the rest of SoWal. The Grayton ordinance was a community effort, and at the time, the Grayton community felt like it was working well.
So I'll say it again - the county dropped the ball on enforcement, as you have pointed out in your post. And I don't know why we are going back again to the beginning and attempting to replace an ordinance that is not enforced with another ordinance that won't be enforced and probably would not stand up in court. It's a mystery to me. :idontno: Why cover all the same ground over and over again? If the SO won't enforce a particular ordinance, whatever it is, and Code Enforcement either can't or won't, what is the point of it all? :bang:

It sounded like the Sheriff wants the Grayton ordinance (if he has to take one), b/c it will be easier on his deputies, and take less time away from important law enforcement issues. Why would law enforcement care whether or not the ordinance is Constitutional, as long as it handles the situation? Unless victims are willing to go to jail and hire an attorney ($$$), the ordinance (unConstitutional or not) will keep the noise down, and the arrests will in turn, keep the complaints to a minimum.

It sounded like the Sheriff wants the Grayton ordinance (if he has to take one), b/c it will be easier on his deputies, and take less time away from important law enforcement issues. Why would law enforcement care whether or not the ordinance is Constitutional, as long as it handles the situation? Unless victims are willing to go to jail and hire an attorney ($$$), the ordinance (unConstitutional or not) will keep the noise down, and the arrests will in turn, keep the complaints to a minimum.

I think you are getting the picture. And, I will add, a subjective ordinance more readily lends itself to subjective enforcement.

I'm clueless when it comes to sound and decible meters. I'll leave that to John R and analogman. I'm curious, is it possible to set a decible meter to block out unamplified human voice (an exception from the proposed ordinance), wind noise, ocean waves, etc, and detect solely the amplified voice or instruments to see if someone is in violation?

These other components of the sonic spectrum will be in the same frequency range as the noise and music the ordinance will be addressing. A simple decibel (dB) meter isn't able to filter them out SJ.

These other components of the sonic spectrum will be in the same frequency range as the noise and music the ordinance will be addressing. A simple decibel (dB) meter isn't able to filter them out SJ.

True, but those sounds are not loud so they will have no impact. It's not like a dB meter adds sounds up for a total...

They're inconsequential...

I think I understand you both. I will say that many of the music acts around here play at a quieter volume than the people talking in the bars, and when the music stops for a break, the people tend to get even louder. My point is, if the db meter does as analogman suggests, a decent attorney would point out the obvious about the other noises, enough to make a jury question it.

I think I understand you both. I will say that many of the music acts around here play at a quieter volume than the people talking in the bars, and when the music stops for a break, the people tend to get even louder. My point is, if the db meter does as analogman suggests, a decent attorney would point out the obvious about the other noises, enough to make a jury question it.

Point taken!