Interesting turn in public records request in Escambia Co.

... When examining the emails I could see that many were actually just CC:ed to each commissioner. Personally I thought it a bit strange when I would get four copies of dozens of emails, yet none from one commissioner who, even though according to my copies were addressed correctly, kept insisting that no emails were received at their office. I felt pretty confident in my assumption that the office was deleting public records or just lying about it. I also felt that I had enough, that if I went in front of a judge, I could have gotten someone's computer seized. But alas, it would go nowhere toward trying to stop the TDC from asking and then getting a 12.5% tax increase during dire economic times.

I understand. What if the County Commissioner were receiving many spam emails, eg- ads, and began marking the ads as "Spam," to be blocked by filters? If the Spam filter mistook legitimate business emails and filtered it to the SPAM file, the Commissioner would never see the email, and might actually think he or she is complying fully with the law, when he or she says that he or she did not receive any emails on the subject. I wonder how that would play out in Court. If it was never read because it is in the spam filter, therefore never getting into the "in-box," how is he or she to know to forward it in your request?

I understand. What if the County Commissioner were receiving many spam emails, eg- ads, and began marking the ads as "Spam," to be blocked by filters? If the Spam filter mistook legitimate business emails and filtered it to the SPAM file, the Commissioner would never see the email, and might actually think he or she is complying fully with the law, when he or she says that he or she did not receive any emails on the subject. I wonder how that would play out in Court. If it was never read because it is in the spam filter, therefore never getting into the "in-box," how is he or she to know to forward it in your request?

Can you say s t r e t c h?
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It isn't a stretch at all. I check my spam filter once a week, just because legit email, including even from myself to myself (CCs), occasionally get screened out. It wouldn't surprise me at all if legit emails enter other people's spam box, if they are somewhat decent at marking spam on a regular basis.

It isn't a stretch at all. I check my spam filter once a week, just because legit email, including even from myself to myself (CCs), occasionally get screened out. It wouldn't surprise me at all if legit emails enter other people's spam box, if they are somewhat decent at marking spam on a regular basis.

Watch out Joe, applying common sense and real life examples to a witchhunt is a futile undertaking.:roll:

I understand. What if the County Commissioner were receiving many spam emails, eg- ads, and began marking the ads as "Spam," to be blocked by filters? If the Spam filter mistook legitimate business emails and filtered it to the SPAM file, the Commissioner would never see the email, and might actually think he or she is complying fully with the law, when he or she says that he or she did not receive any emails on the subject. I wonder how that would play out in Court. If it was never read because it is in the spam filter, therefore never getting into the "in-box," how is he or she to know to forward it in your request?

County system, they all do it the same way. If the message was getting caught in a spam filter none of them would get it.

County system, they all do it the same way. If the message was getting caught in a spam filter none of them would get it.

Darn, thought Joe had you there for a moment.

So an individual cannot mark spam in their own mailbox? My email address from my company's email service allows each individual to set their own spam preferences. Is the County's so unique that it won't allow that?

So an individual cannot mark spam in their own mailbox? My email address from my company's email service allows each individual to set their own spam preferences. Is the County's so unique that it won't allow that?

Robert, what say you about this?

I wonder how difficult it would be for someone who wanted to get someone thrown out of office, to go to a public computer, such as the library, and sign in using a Commissioner's first name, go to some kiddie porn sites, and subscribe to receive such things using the Commissioner's email address.

I know the good ole boy system is at work in County Gov't all over this Country, but it sure would be too easy to make an elected official look terrible, without much work.

So an individual cannot mark spam in their own mailbox? My email address from my company's email service allows each individual to set their own spam preferences. Is the County's so unique that it won't allow that?

No way would you ever convince me that each and every mail that they received on an issue was marked as spam, and so what if it was. A public records request has no automatic exemption for spam, nor no automatic exemption for not knowing it was in your mailbox. If this is occurring they should be searching their spam folders also.

You are also working under the assumption that the commissioners are the ones getting the mail and reading it, which is not true. I know one of them has all the email printed out, writes a response, and has staff type the response back. Have no idea what the commissioner is going to do with the new Blackberry they were recently given.

I do admire you for standing your ground in their defense though.

No way would you ever convince me that each and every mail that they received on an issue was marked as spam, and so what if it was. A public records request has no automatic exemption for spam, nor no automatic exemption for not knowing it was in your mailbox. If this is occurring they should be searching their spam folders also.

You are also working under the assumption that the commissioners are the ones getting the mail and reading it, which is not true. I know one of them has all the email printed out, writes a response, and has staff type the response back. Have no idea what the commissioner is going to do with the new Blackberry they were recently given.

I do admire you for standing your ground in their defense though.

I do not speak for Joe, but I am not defending anyone. I am defending the rights of everyone from unwarranted intrusion by the government into their personal affairs. If the government can examine commissioner's mail, then they can examine mine or yours if the "reason" is deemed good enough. We have already sacrificed too much personal liberty in this country.

I do not speak for Joe, but I am not defending anyone. I am defending the rights of everyone from unwarranted intrusion by the government into their personal affairs. If the government can examine commissioner's mail, then they can examine mine or yours if the "reason" is deemed good enough. We have already sacrificed too much personal liberty in this country.

Maybe we need to get back on track here. Elected officials are aware of this being possible when running for office. So they can choose not to participate. The emails that are being examined are public records. They are on government email servers. When we spoke about private email addresses, I used the example to show how easy it is to catch someone trying to say that they did not get an official email at their private account. There are copies, and obviously this guy had them. He asked for all the emails, was told there were none, asked again, told that there were none, then asked one more time and asked that they make 'sure' that they were none as he would be going to court the next day to try to get them produced. Suddenly dozens showed up. For him to be so persistent, I believe that he had copies of the emails already, at least one side of the conversation, and felt confident that he could get the others. If the commissioner was so committed to privacy, they could have presented their case to the judge to see how it worked out.

Of course, Escambia County has actually jailed officials in the past for violation of the public records law, one school board member, and the DEP regional director for the area.

I do not speak for Joe, but I am not defending anyone. I am defending the rights of everyone from unwarranted intrusion by the government into their personal affairs. If the government can examine commissioner's mail, then they can examine mine or yours if the "reason" is deemed good enough. We have already sacrificed too much personal liberty in this country.

Do you also defend someones right to have a volleball net on their property ?

Maybe we need to get back on track here. Elected officials are aware of this being possible when running for office. So they can choose not to participate. The emails that are being examined are public records. They are on government email servers. ....

I'm confused because I thought the issue was taking one's private computer and confiscating private emails, not public. If the emails were sent to the public email address for a Commissioner, they should be able to find it on the County's server, without need to take any computer from anyone.

I'm confused because I thought the issue was taking one's private computer and confiscating private emails, not public. If the emails were sent to the public email address for a Commissioner, they should be able to find it on the County's server, without need to take any computer from anyone.

The example I gave you of how easy it is to catch someone was my experience on government servers. Since this whole thing has gotten so mucked up I do not know if we will ever get back on track.

Current law and court precedent say that emails covering government business are public records even if sent to private email addresses.

I don't think we are off-topic. I thought the fact is that a privately owned computer was being seized. You are saying that you sent emails to the public email address. Is it not possible for the Courts to see what goes through the County's server? I think the answer is yes, without the need to take one's personal computer.

Current law and court precedent say that emails covering government business are public records even if sent to private email addresses.

Yes, but it says nothing about private, non-gov't business emails being public record, and it sounds like you are asking that people should have the ability to go through all of one's personal, non-gov't emails to hope to find a business email. If the email was sent to the public address, it should be traceable through the County's server.

I don't think we are off-topic. I thought the fact is that a privately owned computer was being seized. You are saying that you sent emails to the public email address. Is it not possible for the Courts to see what goes through the County's server? I think the answer is yes, without the need to take one's personal computer.

Current law and court precedent say that emails covering government business are public records even if sent to private email addresses.

Why don't you do this. Run for office, get elected, give me your private email address and I will show you how to spend some dollars defending your position. Who knows, maybe together we can make some new law.

What the heck are you talking about? I have no desire to run for office, only to be sent emails by you, then requested the emails be returned to you. Are you nuts? I'd never get any real work done. By the way, thanks for saving all the trees by asking for these paper trails.

I understand the current law. The problem with finding guilt is that you have to provide evidence, which cannot be done through unconstitutional means.

Does the Chairman of Code Enforcement also have to follow these rules? If so, sounds like he may have the potential to have his hands full if people wanted to start sending emails then requesting to receive copies of said emails which they just sent. Talk about trying to start something over nothing.

I don't think we are off-topic. I thought the fact is that a privately owned computer was being seized. You are saying that you sent emails to the public email address. Is it not possible for the Courts to see what goes through the County's server? I think the answer is yes, without the need to take one's personal computer.

Yes, but it says nothing about private, non-gov't business emails being public record, and it sounds like you are asking that people should have the ability to go through all of one's personal, non-gov't emails to hope to find a business email. If the email was sent to the public address, it should be traceable through the County's server.

I think you are about to find out that in Walton County the answer to your question is NO. Give it a few days. Check U-Tube

Does the Chairman of Code Enforcement also have to follow these rules? If so, sounds like he may have the potential to have his hands full if people wanted to start sending emails then requesting to receive copies of said emails which they just sent. Talk about trying to start something over nothing.

That is a good question. So far I have not received anything that I believe would be a public record at my email that a copy also does not exist on a government server. And I am not a custodian of any public records that I know of.

So send me something, then request it, and let us see what happens.


As for my paper trail, I get everything in electronic format so far. Although I may have to actually kill some trees, if I can not get DBPR to send me a case report as a pdf. I hate giving them $15 for a hundred pages of stuff that I probably do not need.

What the heck are you talking about? I have no desire to run for office, only to be sent emails by you, then requested the emails be returned to you. Are you nuts? I'd never get any real work done. By the way, thanks for saving all the trees by asking for these paper trails.

I understand the current law. The problem with finding guilt is that you have to provide evidence, which cannot be done through unconstitutional means.

You have evidence to get access. Not access to get evidence.

No way would you ever convince me that each and every mail that they received on an issue was marked as spam, and so what if it was. A public records request has no automatic exemption for spam, nor no automatic exemption for not knowing it was in your mailbox. If this is occurring they should be searching their spam folders also.

You are also working under the assumption that the commissioners are the ones getting the mail and reading it, which is not true. I know one of them has all the email printed out, writes a response, and has staff type the response back. Have no idea what the commissioner is going to do with the new Blackberry they were recently given.

I do admire you for standing your ground in their defense though.

They got Blackberries, wow, sometimes when communications get balled up, I bet WCFR wish they still had the direct connects on their trucks.