Maybe I am a bit too cynical, but cold weather shelters?

I believe Wrobert is too busy doling out his family's annual toilet paper ration to be properly engaged by your wager SWGB. 😉

idlewind,
I'm for smaller government, too. I fully believe in people helping people, not government taking money from some to give to others.

That said, please tell me how much tax money you think is spent opening a cold shelter. I think it is probably a trivial amount here in Walton Co. The EOC already owns the cots, they already pay staff salaries, building is already heated for other uses, and most, sometimes all, of the people working in the shelters are volunteers.

Using your firm idea that the gov't should never be responsible for the people safety and security, let's put that in a scenario where SoWal (heaven forbid) gets hit by a cat 5 hurricane with destroying every home in SoWal. Should we rely on the local churches, businesses and fellow SoWallers to provide shelter, food and water? I guess you also think that we should eliminate the police and fire departments, and get some guns for protection and revenge for wrongdoers and buy a lot of garden hoses in case a neighbors house catches on fire.

Are you really so firm in your beliefs that we should have such a small gov't that they offer nothing?

It seems to be a common argument these days for government spending that the amounts spent are "trivial." I heard a liberal the other night describe 400 million dollars as trivial and the next night heard 3.3 billion described as a minorl amount. That thinking is called the slippery slope. We will never solve our spending and deficit problems until we realize that every dollar of taxpayer money is a public trust and must be spent wisely.

That said, there are legitimate functions of government that must be funded and we should make sure are provided with excellence. Public safety (police, fire. ambulance. military) have always been considered functions of government. And the Cat 5 hurricane is a catastrophe and needs a government response due to the occurance being unusual and the number of victims being huge. Freezing weather is a yearly occurance and the services needed are only for a very small percentage of the population. Charities can provide those services better and more efficiently than government.

Yes, in many cases charities can provide services better than government, but the charities are overloaded. Donations are down, the same volunteers are stretched thin, and need has skyrocketed.

Frankly I am appalled that so many think keeping people from freezing to death is an issue of politics and budget.

Yes, in many cases charities can provide services better than government, but the charities are overloaded. Donations are down, the same volunteers are stretched thin, and need has skyrocketed.

Frankly I am appalled that so many think keeping people from freezing to death is an issue of politics and budget.

In many cases (Walton County for one) governments are overloaded. Tax receipts are down, the number of workers are down and the remaining are stretched thin, and needs for legitimate services have skyrocketed.

Frankly I am appalled that so many do not realize that everything is an issue of politics and budget.

In many cases (Walton County for one) governments are overloaded. Tax receipts are down, the number of workers are down and the remaining are stretched thin, and needs for legitimate services have skyrocketed.

Frankly I am appalled that so many do not realize that everything is an issue of politics and budget.

Frankly I am appalled that politics lost it's humanitarian side. Humanitarianism is the back bone of this country and the reason the US was created. Remember, "give me your tired, give me your poor"? Statue of Liberty.

[/B]

Frankly I am appalled that politics lost it's humanitarian side. Humanitarianism is the back bone of this country and the reason the US was created. Remember, "give me your tired, give me your poor"? Statue of Liberty.

At the time that was written what was offered the tired and poor was an opportunity, not a handout. Churches and charities took care of the handouts and government worked to create an atmosphere of opportunity. Today we have reversed this to our peril.

Having said that--what about the irony of having to open a homeless shelter in a county that is awash with empty houses and condos? Instead of using tax dollars to provide shelters for folks in need, maybe you'd feel better to look upon it as a security measure to keep the homeless from breaking into the empty beach houses to get out of the cold.

I was going to mention that. This country has billions upon billions of square feet of empty space consuming enormous amounts of power.

For any rental owners out there that would like to help without having a bum stay in your house, go to Geronimo - Vacation Rentals for Charity and donate empty time in your rental. You can designate the proceeds go to any organization that helps homeless or any other cause.

Keepin mind, not all homeless are bums.

Keepin mind, not all homeless are bums.

A disproportionate number are veterans.

I would rather live in a shack and share what I have, than sit on a hilltop in luxurious comfort watching those that are cold and hungry walk by. When I see a homeless person, I wonder if that was my brother/sister/child would I appreciate a stranger stopping to give and or help them? Every person on the street has a face, God help you WRobert if you fall on hard times by circumstance, not by choice. Even if you did...I would help you. That is just the right thing to do, it's not a political stance.

Once again you jump to a lot of conclusions about me based on things you know nothing about.

A disproportionate number are veterans.

And that is the shame of this country.

Yes, in many cases charities can provide services better than government, but the charities are overloaded. Donations are down, the same volunteers are stretched thin, and need has skyrocketed.

Frankly I am appalled that so many think keeping people from freezing to death is an issue of politics and budget.

What if charities had managed things differently back when the economy was good? Everyone realized that things would dip eventually, certainly not for this long, but eventually. But when the economy was better, donations were up, but all that was given was needed, and then when times get bad, donations go down, but need goes up even more.

wrobert don't act like you posted this to discuss the root of the problem, you clearly pointed out in your original post that you felt 32 degrees wasn't too cold to get through the night.

So now you can put your money where your mouth is.

Wednesday night will drop below 32 to 31 degrees in Defuniak. You spend the night in front of your business in 10 dollars worth of Good Will clothes and no shelter other than card board and newspaper and I'll donate $100.00 to the Republican party. I'll go ahead and make that bet throughout the winter, make it to $1,000.00 and I'll publicly register as a Republican.

Come on tough guy. :popcorn:

Where will I plug in my DVR and my plasma television?

Where will I plug in my DVR and my plasma television?

...I won't go there...

.

Once again you jump to a lot of conclusions about me based on things you know nothing about.

I have not jumped to any conclusions, just making a comment based on your post. And you are right, I know nothing about you, nor do I need to.

One take on this discussion

In my opinion, opening a cold shelter is a legitimate government function. While I understand that others may disagree, I feel that such an activity serves a legitimate public purpose. And, in our current tax and economic enviroment, it will probably save tax dollars in the long run. For instance, if the homeless need medical attention after a cold night, Medicaid will have to pay for it and that will more expensive than the minimal costs of a cold shelter.

However, Robert's question is a good one and one we have discussed before. Are we just band-aiding a problem that can be attacked a different way. I think we all agree that homelessness is not acceptable in a society as rich and comfortable as ours.

It my estimation, homlessness is a sympton of other governmental and societal failures. Let me try to list them; lack of adequately funded and supported community mental health services; lack of adequately funded and supported juvenile justice programs that focus on counseling, job skills, life skills, rather than focusing on punishment; a corrections system that merely houses inmates and makes no effort to educate, job train or prepare inmates for life outslde of prison; veteran's programs that are severely underfunded especially on the mental health side; a medical delivery system that sacrifices quality care and preventive care to focus on a corporate botton line; and don't get me started on an education system that spends way too much effort responding to standardized tests versus actually learning skills to succeed in college and the work place.

Maybe we need to sit down, without rancor or agendas, and honestly sat ask ourselves as a county, state and country; what are our priorities? Should our priorities focus on helping families make the most out of their opportunities? How do we do that? What is the governments role in that task, if any?

It is my opnion that our government does have a role and it should start with with a little more focus on family micro economics and not make all decisions on macro economics. That is, every government decision should start with the question, how is this going to help the American family procure opportunities to improve their lives?
Just my thoughts....

good thoughts IMO. I had asked Robert to state some of his ideas or suggestions...if, in fact, he was trying to address a larger issue.

I wish that more people in leadership positions shared the ideas you lay out. I like to think that most people would support improved systems that would lead to an improved, more productive society. There are some, undoubtedly, who would do nothing for others, despite the fact that all society suffers in the long run, from the lack of improvement...however, the ideas that you lay out seem to be "not on the radar" of many of our leaders today, especially in Florida.

Any suggestions about how we could begin to do some of what you are thinking about?

In my opinion, opening a cold shelter is a legitimate government function. While I understand that others may disagree, I feel that such an activity serves a legitimate public purpose. And, in our current tax and economic enviroment, it will probably save tax dollars in the long run. For instance, if the homeless need medical attention after a cold night, Medicaid will have to pay for it and that will more expensive than the minimal costs of a cold shelter.

However, Robert's question is a good one and one we have discussed before. Are we just band-aiding a problem that can be attacked a different way. I think we all agree that homelessness is not acceptable in a society as rich and comfortable as ours.

It my estimation, homlessness is a sympton of other governmental and societal failures. Let me try to list them; lack of adequately funded and supported community mental health services; lack of adequately funded and supported juvenile justice programs that focus on counseling, job skills, life skills, rather than focusing on punishment; a corrections system that merely houses inmates and makes no effort to educate, job train or prepare inmates for life outslde of prison; veteran's programs that are severely underfunded especially on the mental health side; a medical delivery system that sacrifices quality care and preventive care to focus on a corporate botton line; and don't get me started on an education system that spends way too much effort responding to standardized tests versus actually learning skills to succeed in college and the work place.

Maybe we need to sit down, without rancor or agendas, and honestly sat ask ourselves as a county, state and country; what are our priorities? Should our priorities focus on helping families make the most out of their opportunities? How do we do that? What is the governments role in that task, if any?

It is my opnion that our government does have a role and it should start with with a little more focus on family micro economics and not make all decisions on macro economics. That is, every government decision should start with the question, how is this going to help the American family procure opportunities to improve their lives?
Just my thoughts....

I can accept government providing the service based on long-term savings of tax dollars. That makes sense but I would love to see numbers.

The problems with society today often trace back to government in silent, unnoticed ways. The knee-jerk reaction to criminalize all sorts of activities has placed thousands in corrections settings that should not be there. Upon release the record they now have prevents them from being able to find a job so they find themselves homeless and hopeless. The community mental health movement is mostly an abject failure as is the juvenile justice system. And the education system frankly prepares students to take tests instead of functioning in the real world and succeeding in higher education. There is a total lack of discipline in most schools. Students are allowed to get away with behavior that will not be tolerated in the workplace. So they wonder why they get fired when they talk to the boss like they talked to every other adult whose authority they have been under. It goes on and on and on. The issues are deep and cannot be fixed with soundbites and warm fuzzy feelings.

I can accept government providing the service based on long-term savings of tax dollars. That makes sense but I would love to see numbers.

The problems with society today often trace back to government in silent, unnoticed ways. The knee-jerk reaction to criminalize all sorts of activities has placed thousands in corrections settings that should not be there. Upon release the record they now have prevents them from being able to find a job so they find themselves homeless and hopeless. The community mental health movement is mostly an abject failure as is the juvenile justice system. And the education system frankly prepares students to take tests instead of functioning in the real world and succeeding in higher education. There is a total lack of discipline in most schools. Students are allowed to get away with behavior that will not be tolerated in the workplace. So they wonder why they get fired when they talk to the boss like they talked to every other adult whose authority they have been under. It goes on and on and on. The issues are deep and cannot be fixed with soundbites and warm fuzzy feelings.

what schools are you referring to here?

I agree that nothing can be fixed with soundbites....what are your suggestion for making our system better?