Plans for Additional Parking at Beach Acesses

I'm curious how y'all feel about this. Is using existing right of way a good idea? What about buying land? Is adding parking a good use of bed tax funds?

Unsure if it's a good idea for using existing right of way, but it's a better use of bed tax funds than buying songs and subsidizing a cooking show. It's sad, but the ruin of the area from being over developed is reality. There is a need for parking, 30-A is horrible during the summer months due to excessive traffic and limited parking areas. Personally I feel the area has been promoted to it's beginning of demise. I know of several people who have stopped coming here due to the congestion. They say for them, all of the reasons they came here are gone, and the beauty of the area has been destroyed.

Unsure if it's a good idea for using existing right of way, but it's a better use of bed tax funds than buying songs and subsidizing a cooking show. It's sad, but the ruin of the area from being over developed is reality. There is a need for parking, 30-A is horrible during the summer months due to excessive traffic and limited parking areas. Personally I feel the area has been promoted to it's beginning of demise. I know of several people who have stopped coming here due to the congestion. They say for them, all of the reasons they came here are gone, and the beauty of the area has been destroyed.

I get your point but there are millions who think this area is still undiscovered and quaint and undeveloped. While it would be nice to keep an area pristine -- one walk through the woods or along a coastal lake in SoWal is as good as it gets. I kind of chuckle / rolleyes when someone says traffic in summer is so horrible. I have been places where it takes and hour to drive three miles. Traffic here is minor.

Hello Kurt,

Thanks for posting the plans for this proposal. As part of the community of property owners in the immediate Walton Dunes access area, I can tell you that there is much opposition to the proposal. Part of the charm of 30A and Seagrove is the natural environment which is the reason many of us purchased in the area and is the reason vacationers select our homes/condos as rentals. This proposed parking lot will drastically take away from the very thing that makes Seagrove and 30A so attractive to tourists and property owners alike - which, in the end, will actually be counterproductive to the goals of the TDC and Walton County:
1. Our properties will become less attractive to vacationers which will bring our rental rates down - for some it will be a large decrease - result: less bed tax revenue for the county
2. Our property values will decrease - result: less property revenues for the county
3. Tourism could suffer - many of us have solicited the countless number of guests who have stayed at our properties over the years - the overwhelming response has been a negative one because the very reason they visit is the "quiet, natural surroundings" that this area offers. result: obviously, this will hit everything from sales tax to bed tax.
4. Maintenance costs - this particular area is low lying and when a tropical storm or higher comes through, the waves flood the entire area where the proposed restroom, dune walkover, and south parking lot is in the drawing. This was evident from the last storm that came through when the waves reached the current street. result: these structures will require reconstruction conservatively every 2-3 years.

The above are just some of the issues from a financial perspective, but there are also environmental issues to consider which I know many of you hold very dear being so dedicated to this area.

It has been surprising to us (as property owners) that the immediate community was not made aware and solicited for feedback prior to the TDC expenditures of ~50K on feasibility studies and designs. It seems that the number 1 priority of our county elected commissioners should be to express "the voice" of the community, and I can tell you the property owners in the entire surrounding area are disappointed in the TDC and are/will be expressing their concerns and opposition to this proposal.

My apologies for getting on a soap box, but your timing on this post couldn't have been better as we are all assembling to ensure the concerns of the community are heard and considered. The "Big Yellow Taxi" Joni Mitchell song comes to mind - "They paved PARADISE and put up a PARKING LOT" - seems very fitting for the issue at hand.

Thanks again for bringing attention to this matter.
Marina

It would seem there are definitely two sides to this story. The permanent residents don't want it and the the rental community does. That said, this is a tourist area and they are going to be catered toward. I knew what I would have to put up with when I moved here permanently as our townhome is among many that are rentals. I cerainly don't have an answer to the necessary balance between residents and the rental people. I still love it here, would not care to live anywhere else but understand that there are inconveniences and occasionally thoughtless people I will have to put up with in order to live in paradise.

I would like to see landscaping and trees used to minimize the effect of these projects on the neighboring houses and neighborhoods.

It looks like the way they shoehorned these in to avoid buying land means a lot of privacy and shade was lost.

The county is going to hold hearings for public input on these parking projects. I haven't seen any notices for the hearings yet but I can post something about them when the notices come out.

Currently Walton County P&Z does not allow vending at the public beach access areas. I can see the reasoning behind coke machines and such, but what about our product?

Our sunscreen machines are unique in the way that they do not disturb the "look" of the access. We are able to hang them on walls next to bathrooms, where I believe they will blend in with the decor. This set up allows a space for Visit South Walton to advertise upcoming events in the area, or to display beach safety guidelines.

Our product also comes with a solar panel, which is convenient to place them in areas that do not already have electricity.

The TDC spends millions on advertising and beach safety. I believe providing a quick and easy way to dispense sunscreen to our visitors makes it more comfortable for our visitors, which in turns allows them to go out and spend in our area, instead of spending time renting movies in their rooms.

Did I mention we also have a all natural SPF/ Insect repellant combo? We sure could have used this in the past month.

Thoughts? Is this a decent way to spend our bed tax?

Please visit us at www.SkinShark.com!

Thanks miznotebook! That would be wonderful if you could post any upcoming public hearings here.

Mr. Brentwood, your certainly entitled to you opinion. I have also lived in places where the traffic is worse. I bought my first property here in 1993, and moved here full time in 2000. For me, the area was so much more enjoyable then.

Not yet anyway

I get your point but there are millions who think this area is still undiscovered and quaint and undeveloped. While it would be nice to keep an area pristine -- one walk through the woods or along a coastal lake in SoWal is as good as it gets. I kind of chuckle / rolleyes when someone says traffic in summer is so horrible. I have been places where it takes and hour to drive three miles. Traffic here is minor.

...and if these new parking lots are built you will be sitting in traffic on 30-A for three hours. The increased traffic that this will bring to the bike path and to the beaches ( of which both are already overcrowded in peak times) will certainly diminish the enjoyment of these two premier attractions to 30-A. One can barely get through Seagrove today much less with additional traffic added. What you are advocating is 30-A to become another Panama City or Destin. Keep adding to the traffic and there will be no differentiation between the two areas.

On county web site today:

[h=2]PUBLIC NOTICE - Montigo Avenue, Walton Dunes and Santa Clara Beach Parking Workshops[/h]PUBLIC NOTICE
Montigo Avenue, Walton Dunes and Santa Clara Beach Parking Workshops

NOTICE is hereby given that the WALTON COUNTY TOURIST DEVELOPMENT COUNCIL will hold two beach parking workshops open to the public on Thursday, November 8, 2012 at 5:00 p.m at the Coastal Branch Library, Santa Rosa Beach, and on November 15, 2012 at 9:00 a.m. at the South Walton Courthouse Annex Boardroom, Santa Rosa Beach. For additional information regarding this meeting contact Stacey Infinger at 850-267-1216 or Stacey@visitsouthwalton.com.

Workshop Item: Discussion regarding design of a conceptual plan for beach parking development at county owned property in the following locations: Montigo Avenue, Walton Dunes and Santa Clara.
If a person decides to appeal any decision made by the council with respect to any matter considered, he/she will need a record of the proceedings and may need to ensure that a verbatim record of the proceedings is made, which record includes that testimony and evidence upon which the appeal is to be based.
In accordance with Section 286.26, Florida Statutes, whenever any board or commissioner of any state agency or authority, or of any agency or authority of any county, municipal corporation, or other political subdivision, which has scheduled a meeting, a written request by a physically handicapped person to attend the meeting, directed to the chairperson or director of such board, commission, agency, or authority, such chairperson or director shall provide a manner by which such person may attend the meeting at its scheduled site or reschedule the meeting to a site which would be accessible to such person.

Please be governed accordingly.




www.co.walton.fl.us/CivicAlerts.aspx?AID=531

Thanks for posting!

Talk about devaluing a neighborhood! Santa Clara is the worst, and Walton Dunes isn't far behind due to messing with the tranquility of the neighborhood. Argh!

...and if these new parking lots are built you will be sitting in traffic on 30-A for three hours. The increased traffic that this will bring to the bike path and to the beaches ( of which both are already overcrowded in peak times) will certainly diminish the enjoyment of these two premier attractions to 30-A. One can barely get through Seagrove today much less with additional traffic added. What you are advocating is 30-A to become another Panama City or Destin. Keep adding to the traffic and there will be no differentiation between the two areas.

I was saying much the same as your statement about 12 years ago because of all the development and changes and people moving to the area, increased tourism, etc. But, I'm over it. Believe me, the changes going on today are nothing compared to what we have witnessed over the last 20 years. Fortunately, the progress in Walton County happens very slowly and we are very fortunate that we have wonderful building height standards, 40% of land preserved and lots of great residents who are all about preserving and protecting the natural environment as much as possible.

At the same time, people are demanding the County step it up and improve infrastructure for tourism and population growth - beach access parking being among the top needs for tourists AND residents. I don't know if these plans for increased beach access parking are ideal or not. But, I do know I've heard many residents talk about the need for parking up and down Scenic 30A. I know many of you will get involved, go the meetings and bring ideas for solutions. It's what makes SoWal so wonderful.

I was saying much the same as your statement about 12 years ago because of all the development and changes and people moving to the area, increased tourism, etc. But, I'm over it. Believe me, the changes going on today are nothing compared to what we have witnessed over the last 20 years. Fortunately, the progress in Walton County happens very slowly and we are very fortunate that we have wonderful building height standards, 40% of land preserved and lots of great residents who are all about preserving and protecting the natural environment as much as possible.

At the same time, people are demanding the County step it up and improve infrastructure for tourism and population growth - beach access parking being among the top needs for tourists AND residents. I don't know if these plans for increased beach access parking are ideal or not. But, I do know I've heard many residents talk about the need for parking up and down Scenic 30A. I hope many of you will get involved, go the meetings and bring ideas for solutions instead of complaints.

Every thing you say is true, Teresa, and very well put. I just called the TDC with a question. Would the subject matter and presentation be the same on Nov. 8 and 15. The answer was yes so you only need to attend one session to receive all pertinent information.

Every thing you say is true, Teresa, and very well put. I just called the TDC with a question. Would the subject matter and presentation be the same on Nov. 8 and 15. The answer was yes so you only need to attend one session to receive all pertinent information.

Thanks for that info Andy!

and neither did the TDC but maybe they should have asked first...

I was saying much the same as your statement about 12 years ago because of all the development and changes and people moving to the area, increased tourism, etc. But, I'm over it. Believe me, the changes going on today are nothing compared to what we have witnessed over the last 20 years. Fortunately, the progress in Walton County happens very slowly and we are very fortunate that we have wonderful building height standards, 40% of land preserved and lots of great residents who are all about preserving and protecting the natural environment as much as possible.

At the same time, people are demanding the County step it up and improve infrastructure for tourism and population growth - beach access parking being among the top needs for tourists AND residents. I don't know if these plans for increased beach access parking are ideal or not. But, I do know I've heard many residents talk about the need for parking up and down Scenic 30A. I hope many of you will get involved, go the meetings and bring ideas for solutions instead of complaints.

Teresa stated that "I don't know if these plans for increased beach parking are ideal or not." and Andy stated that "I certainly don't have an answer to the necessary balance between residents and rental prople." And apparently neither does the TDC. The point is that anyone using common sense would think would be a very contoversial issue the TDC should have had more conversation with those citizens being impacted by the additional parking lots before it spent $50,000. I believe it has become apparent that these concerned "complainers" will be vocal at the planned meetings. It was recently reported that tourism increased to over three million visitors in the latest count. What the TDC needs to be doing is studying how much more tourism the infrastructure of 30-A can bear before it implodes. Take care of, fix and plan for what the area can support first. If the TDC keeps bringing more people to the area without adequate planning the tourists will stop coming to the area for the good reasons that we all came to 30-A.

Dang, I wish I could be at the meetings. But I have had to cancel some classes for family reasons. I just can't do that anymore this semester without getting in trouble with the provost.

I agree the TDC should have more interaction with the public about all projects. Not the best PR in the world. They are having the workshops now and all are invited for input. Lots of locals are interested and that's a good thing. I don't think it's too late to make a difference. Hopefully the workshops will be productive.

I don't believe that tourism levels will continue as they were this last season for several reasons. I think tourism will be healthy and strong. But every business owner here knows that no matter how great business is in any season, every summer season is different, numbers go up and down over the years. Businesses will be hoping that numbers stay higher for longer. But we will see. We love it here, we live here because we choose it, and we learn that living in a popular destination town on the coast is kind of complicated. It isn't for everyone, that's for sure.

I kind of like having a small county govt. But the trade off is that we aren't proactive about the rapid population growth, industry, and infrastructure/service needs. We will get there eventually because of the people who live here and who take the time to get involved. Eventually, south Walton may come into its own and incorporate. That wouldn't be such a bad thing, IMO.

I truly would love to see Walton county develop more kinds of industry so that we can have a more blended and balanced economy. And so we won't be so effected in the off season or by fluctuating tourism due to storms, etc. attracting more professionals and broader job opportunities will enrich our community. And I am not talking about another Walmart!

The "Walton Dunes Parking Parcel" is an Outrage

There’s a reason the "Walton Dunes" conceptual drawing shows the parking area only, as opposed to the conceptual drawings for Montigo Access and Santa Clara Access, which both show the surrounding areas. The planned parking for Walton Dunes takes a narrow, dead-end neighborhood street (Beachfront Trail) and turns it into a parking lot (see image below). It will make it necessary for all of the property owners and visitors to the east of the parking lot, to maneuver through a congested parking lot in order to access their property. Where else in this county, state, or country is a property owner required to drive through a public parking lot in order to reach their property? This beach access is classified as a “neighborhood” beach access, not a regional access for good reason. The congestion and hazardous conditions of this planned parking lot is an accident waiting to happen.
Cars backing in and out, adults and children loaded down with beach chairs etc. walking in the street in order to reach the beach access, which is at the far west end of the parking lot, all the while traffic is attempting to use this street as the only egress and ingress to the properties on the east side of the parking lot. The design forces pedestrians to walk down the street – since there are no sidewalks and since there are no plans to provide sidewalks– in order to reach the beach access.
Beachfront Trail has no bike lanes. Bicycles must share the road with the motorized traffic. The conceptual design invites bicycle traffic to the beach access with a specifically designated bicycle parking area, but the parking space arrangement for cars and trucks makes it even more dangerous for those on bicycles to get to the designated bicycle parking area.
Beachfront Trail is a narrow, dead end, neighborhood street. The minimum street width is supposed to be 20 feet, but the accumulation of sand along the pavement edges makes it much smaller. The County has provided no place to turn around a car or a truck on Beachfront Trail. Turning a vehicle around on this street creates a major safety issue already – not only for the vehicles but also for pedestrians and bike riders. Bringing more traffic onto the street while, at the same time, blocking access to the road shoulders for pedestrians and bicycles will only worsen the problem.
The right of way along this east/west section of Beachfront Trail is only 50 feet wide. It is 17 feet to the north of the east-west property lines and 35 feet to the south of the property line, BUT the street is not positioned such that it is centered on the property lines.
If the 47 parking spaces are constructed as shown on the conceptual design, they will be shorter than the minimum size required and the parked vehicles will also extend into the driving lanes. This situation will worsen progressively as sand accumulates along the edges of the pavement. The street must be a minimum width of 20 feet. That width leaves only 30 feet of right of way width available for the perpendicular parking – or 15 feet north of the driving lanes and 15 feet south of the driving lanes. A 2012 Volkswagen Jetta is 15 feet 2 inches in length. Two 2012 Ford F150 short bed pickup trucks – just a basic pickup, is 18 feet in length and SUV’s are often much longer. If two Ford pickups parked across the street from one another, the street would be only 14 feet in width. Waste Management trucks, CHELCO trucks, regional utility trucks, all types of emergency vehicles (fire trucks) would have a difficult time driving down the street and may not be able to turn the 90 degree corner at the west end of the parcel. It would be very difficult for two vehicles, traveling in opposite directions, to pass each other in a space of just 14 feet.
The coastal barrier dunes provide protection for our neighborhood from the wave action and storm surge that we have seen all too often in recent years. These dunes must be preserved and protected.
The conceptual drawing is a bit misleading because it does not provide any reference to site elevation. Because of a failure by the County to serve as a proper steward of the site since they leased it in 1998, the dunes on this parcel are much smaller than the dunes on adjacent property and the dunes on the site do not extend as far seaward as on the adjacent property. The dunes are closer to the road and the tops of these dunes are one to three feet above the elevation of the road. To construct the project, it will be necessary to flatten the dunes and build on top of them.
The natural habitats of the sea turtle and of the nesting snowy plover that exist on the site will have to be flattened and otherwise destroyed.
Lowering the site elevation below the level of the elevation of nearby properties will expose all nearby property owners to storm surge and wave action. This will be particularly destructive to the 14 Townhomes located just 100 yards to the north of the planned parking lot.
The property values surrounding this parking site will surely be diminished. Would you want to live in a townhome that has a parking lot sitting in your front yard? Would you want to live in a home that requires you to drive through a congested public parking lot in order to access your property? Lower property values = lower property taxes. In the same vein, what tourist would want to rent a townhome and look at a parking lot while sitting on their deck? What tourist would want to rent a property and have to drive through a congested parking lot each day? Lower rental rates = lower bed tax dollars.
With 47 parking spaces, three people per vehicle are another 144 people on this section of beach. During peak season, an average of 4 per vehicle is not unreasonable, which means an additional 188 people on this section of beach. This section is already crowded from the many condo’s townhomes and private homes in the immediate surrounding area and cannot accommodate another 144-188 people.
The residents and tourists that have bought property in this area or that come back year after year have done so because of the appeal of being a quiet residential neighborhood. Walton County and the TDC are attempting to turn this area into a congested mess, without the slightest understanding of the reason tourists come to the Beaches of South Walton. Joni Mitchell certainly had foresight when she sang “they paved paradise and put up a parking lot”.
The following diagram shows the proposed parking lot, as it would appear, if completed.

I'm curious how y'all feel about this. Is using existing right of way a good idea? What about buying land? Is adding parking a good use of bed tax funds?

I'm not a fan of using right-of-ways through existing neighborhoods to solve poor planning for parking.

Do you have a link to the planning documents for the above images you pasted? I ran across them once but can't find them right now.

Second question is, do you know how the right-of-ways are defined? I thought they were usually described as being for utilities or ingress and egress. Is putting parking in such a right-of-way even legal? And if the county does that for one ingress/egress right-of-way, what's stopping them from doing it for everyone?

P.S: This is not even mentioning the recent poor water quality ratings (all summer) and the effect additional runoff from new paving that close to the beach will have. I'm sure some county engineer will claim that's not an issue, but they don't have a handle on this at all. I'd suggest more parking further from the beach, and shuttle service tied into that.

I don't remember but I think it was on http://www.visitsouthwalton.org
or maybe the county's site.

I don't know specifics of right of way but have always known that parking was part of the deal. I think you may be confusing right of way and easements.

Nov 15 Beach Parking Workshop

We've asked for it and the engineering is underway. The first phase is being paid for with bed tax funds and doesn't require buying additional property, but rather uses existing right of way. Other plans are more ambitious and would require buying land, which has not been approved.

Walton Dunes is next to Dunes of Seagrove Condominiums, east of Eastern Lake. There is also talk of possibly providing an area for boat launch from the beach.

View attachment 29020


Montigo Access and additional parking for Santa Clara Access in Seagrove Beach.

View attachment 29022

View attachment 29021


Ed Walline and Dune Allen Accesses - would require purchasing land.

View attachment 29023

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I believe the beach parking workshops were held on the 8th and today. If that is correct, any news on attendance and results?

The Walton Dunes access proposal is an outrage. The Santa Clara access proposal is an outrage. Unfortunately I have close family members with health issues and have missed so much work that I can't miss more work to attend meetings in Florida.

It's all just scary for South Walton.