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Matt J

SWGB

The class size law was controversial when it passed and remains a point of contention to this day.  It was passed under the theory that by having a law school districts would have no other choice but to comply.  Very few counties in Florida are in compliance and it's become about as enforceable as the no driving while barefoot law.

Here's some more information:

[URL]http://www.fldoe.org/classsize/[/URL]

The class size law was controversial when it passed and remains a point of contention to this day. It was passed under the theory that by having a law school districts would have no other choice but to comply. Very few counties in Florida are in compliance and it&#039;s become about as enforceable as the no driving while barefoot law. 
 
Here&#039;s some more information: 
 
<a href="http://www.fldoe.org/classsize/" target="_blank" class="link link--external" rel="nofollow ugc noopener">http://www.fldoe.org/classsize/</a>

Bob Wells

Beach Fanatic

It was actually an amendment to the constitution that passed  by greater than 60%. The legislature has been monkeying with it since it passed trying to change the intent of the voters. But that really is the way the legislature seems to operate. They get a lottery in Florida that was to supplement the schools but the legislature started to reduce the money to the schools almost immediately and now the state require school districts to raise taxes.

j p nettles

Banned

The class size amendment was passed in 2002.  It became "controversial" after the financial meltdown and all that tax money dried up.  The Don's (Gaetz)  amendment to amend  the class size amendment  failed. School districts failed to plan for a  recession and the fall in property values . Also, I believe that Okaloosa County is in compliance. It's the law. So an effort should be made to comply with it.  There's plenty of waste at the top that could be cut.

The class size amendment was passed in 2002.  It became &quot;controversial&quot; after the financial meltdown and all that tax money dried up.  The Don&#039;s (Gaetz)  amendment to amend  the class size amendment  failed. School districts failed to plan for a  recession and the fall in property values . Also, I believe that Okaloosa County is in compliance. It&#039;s the law. So an effort should be made to comply with it.  There&#039;s plenty of waste at the top that could be cut.

The primary reason it was controversial, despite passing, was that forward thinking people saw the possible mess of a recession. The amendment gave no leeway for that.

[quote="L0CAL, post: 796331"]The primary reason it was controversial, despite passing, was that forward thinking people saw the possible mess of a recession. The amendment gave no leeway for that.[/QUOTE]

Who exactly are these "forward thinking people" and why did they wait so long to try to do away with it?

<blockquote class="xfBb-quote" data-name="L0CAL">The primary reason it was controversial, despite passing, was that forward thinking people saw the possible mess of a recession. The amendment gave no leeway for that.</blockquote> 
Who exactly are these &quot;forward thinking people&quot; and why did they wait so long to try to do away with it?

Andy A

These "forward thinking people" do not realize the problem is not class size.  It is class disipline and individual parenting.

These &quot;forward thinking people&quot; do not realize the problem is not class size.  It is class disipline and individual parenting.

tsutcli

It was another give-away to the unions so that they could have more members, power and money.  All public sector unions should be banned or strictly restricted in their incestuous relationships with politicians - especially local pols.

It's really kind of funny that some people advocate selective enforcement of laws.  I recall during the last campaign, Carlene Anderson's opponent didn't have some stupid disclaimer on her signs that you couldn't read anyway and someone  whined about her breaking the election laws, yet Anderson's cheerleaders and lapdogs are OK with the school district violating laws. And I recall at a school board meeting, Mark Davis mentioned that it would be more cost effective to pay the fine than to comply with the class size law. I don't like some of the stupid traffic laws but I do my best to obey them.

It&#039;s really kind of funny that some people advocate selective enforcement of laws.  I recall during the last campaign, Carlene Anderson&#039;s opponent didn&#039;t have some stupid disclaimer on her signs that you couldn&#039;t read anyway and someone  whined about her breaking the election laws, yet Anderson&#039;s cheerleaders and lapdogs are OK with the school district violating laws. And I recall at a school board meeting, Mark Davis mentioned that it would be more cost effective to pay the fine than to comply with the class size law. I don&#039;t like some of the stupid traffic laws but I do my best to obey them.

That was pretty moronic statement.... it takes 60% of folks who vote to pass a constitutional amendment in Florida so all us Union Folks voted for it, where'd the other votes come from.

That was pretty moronic statement.... it takes 60% of folks who vote to pass a constitutional amendment in Florida so all us Union Folks voted for it, where&#039;d the other votes come from.

ckrealtor88

Beach Crab

Looks like you've been put in your place by a member of the SWFD...

I joined this post after learning about the drug issues in our schools.  Seems some people fear hearing the truth and will then make excuse after excuse to protect those responsible.

Your reference to R. Rangle's signs is a good one.

Looks like you&#039;ve been put in your place by a member of the SWFD... 
 
I joined this post after learning about the drug issues in our schools. Seems some people fear hearing the truth and will then make excuse after excuse to protect those responsible. 
 
Your reference to R. Rangle&#039;s signs is a good one.

[quote="Local Lady, post: 796410"]Looks like you've been put in your place by a member of the SWFD...

I joined this post after learning about the drug issues in our schools.  Seems some people fear hearing the truth and will then make excuse after excuse to protect those responsible.

Your reference to R. Rangle's signs is a good one.[/QUOTE]
With respect, I make very few comments reference where I work, although I do make comments ref: Unions, working people/ government employees and politics in general and only represent my views not those of my employer or fellow firefighters. Also just so there is no mistake I was replying to tsutcli. Thank You

<blockquote class="xfBb-quote" data-name="Local Lady">Looks like you&#039;ve been put in your place by a member of the SWFD... 
 
I joined this post after learning about the drug issues in our schools. Seems some people fear hearing the truth and will then make excuse after excuse to protect those responsible. 
 
Your reference to R. Rangle&#039;s signs is a good one.</blockquote>With respect, I make very few comments reference where I work, although I do make comments ref: Unions, working people/ government employees and politics in general and only represent my views not those of my employer or fellow firefighters. Also just so there is no mistake I was replying to tsutcli. Thank You

[quote="tsutcli, post: 796390"]It was another give-away to the unions so that they could have more members, power and money.  All public sector unions should be banned or strictly restricted in their incestuous relationships with politicians - especially local pols.[/QUOTE]

I'm retired now but I've worked in management most of my life and I've never been a member of a union. I know quite a few union members who don't necessarily vote in lock step with their union's endorsements. I voted for the class size amendment in 2002. I make my own decisions when voting.

<blockquote class="xfBb-quote" data-name="tsutcli">It was another give-away to the unions so that they could have more members, power and money. All public sector unions should be banned or strictly restricted in their incestuous relationships with politicians - especially local pols.</blockquote> 
I&#039;m retired now but I&#039;ve worked in management most of my life and I&#039;ve never been a member of a union. I know quite a few union members who don&#039;t necessarily vote in lock step with their union&#039;s endorsements. I voted for the class size amendment in 2002. I make my own decisions when voting.

Zebraspots

Smaller class size is one of the proven ways to improve learning and test scores.

 I don't know all the politics and theories as to why we can't follow this rule, but there is a reason why it was made law.

My guess is that the amount it would cost to comply with both the spirit and letter of the law is minor compared to all the other things the school district spends money on.

Smaller class size is one of the proven ways to improve learning and test scores. 
 
 I don&#039;t know all the politics and theories as to why we can&#039;t follow this rule, but there is a reason why it was made law. 
 
My guess is that the amount it would cost to comply with both the spirit and letter of the law is minor compared to all the other things the school district spends money on.

Bob Hudson

Read this USA Today Article. 

[url]http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/news/education/2010-08-26-classsize26_ST_N.htm[/url]  

The results are not as clear cut as many people think.

Read this USA Today Article. 
 
<a href="http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/news/education/2010-08-26-classsize26_ST_N.htm" target="_blank" class="link link--external" rel="nofollow ugc noopener">http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/news/education/2010-08-26-classsize26_ST_N.htm</a> 
 
The results are not as clear cut as many people think.

I'm not a teacher and never have been but my wife was a teacher for 32 years so I trust her views on education. In a perfect world smaller classes are better.  However, you also need good teachers. 20 something party girls aren't the ideal teachers IMO.  Also funding has dried up for good teachers and smaller classes because of lower tax revenues and I also believe mismanagement of schools is a factor. In Walton County we have an "energy guru" to tell school staff when to turn the lights out. A Chelco rep could do the same thing for free. And a lot of us thought the lottery would indeed fund public education but as usual legislators started fiddling with that so that too was a frivolous assumption.

I&#039;m not a teacher and never have been but my wife was a teacher for 32 years so I trust her views on education. In a perfect world smaller classes are better.  However, you also need good teachers. 20 something party girls aren&#039;t the ideal teachers IMO.  Also funding has dried up for good teachers and smaller classes because of lower tax revenues and I also believe mismanagement of schools is a factor. In Walton County we have an &quot;energy guru&quot; to tell school staff when to turn the lights out. A Chelco rep could do the same thing for free. And a lot of us thought the lottery would indeed fund public education but as usual legislators started fiddling with that so that too was a frivolous assumption.

This editorial is from the NW Florida Daily News



[U][B]EDITORIAL: Counties, costs and class sizes[/B][/U]

Published: Friday, October 25, 2013 at 16:13 PM.

Congratulations to the Okaloosa County School District, whose planners appear to have complied with Florida’s class size limits at all schools — and to have done so while keeping costs and hirings in check. “We did it with absolute fidelity,” said Superintendent of Schools Mary Beth Jackson.

It’s no reflection on school officials that they’ve done an excellent job of meeting questionable goals.
The goals were set 11 years ago, in 2002, when voters approved a constitutional amendment capping class sizes in Florida’s public schools. The caps: 18 students per class in kindergarten through third grade, 22 in fourth through eighth grades, and 25 in core subject classes in high school. The limits were phased in and now are in full effect.

This newspaper opposed the class size limits from the beginning.

There was something inherently nutty about the idea of constantly moving students around to meet cookie-cutter targets. Supporters said smaller classes would improve education, but research on that point was fuzzy. Beginning in the late 1980s, Kansas City, Mo., reduced student-teacher ratios to about 12-to-1 and built 15 new schools; a 1998 study found that those reforms had failed to raise test scores.

Test scores aren’t booming in Okaloosa County, either. In June of this year, we reported that FCAT results “showed the number of students passing the writing exam had fallen below the state average and that fewer third-graders passed the math section of the (test) than last year.”

Clearly, smaller classes are not a quick path to educational excellence.

School officials in Walton and Santa Rosa counties are reaching a similar conclusion. They say they’ve struggled to meet the class size limits by shuffling students from classroom to classroom and hiring more teachers, but it’s a losing battle. 
[U][B]
Said Walton Superintendent of Schools Carlene Anderson: “I’m not going to start scrambling children around just to make the numbers fit.”[/B][/U]

Unfortunately, making the numbers fit is what the class size decree is all about.

This editorial is from the NW Florida Daily News 
 
 
 
EDITORIAL: Counties, costs and class sizes 
 
Published: Friday, October 25, 2013 at 16:13 PM. 
 
Congratulations to the Okaloosa County School District, whose planners appear to have complied with Florida’s class size limits at all schools — and to have done so while keeping costs and hirings in check. “We did it with absolute fidelity,” said Superintendent of Schools Mary Beth Jackson. 
 
It’s no reflection on school officials that they’ve done an excellent job of meeting questionable goals. 
The goals were set 11 years ago, in 2002, when voters approved a constitutional amendment capping class sizes in Florida’s public schools. The caps: 18 students per class in kindergarten through third grade, 22 in fourth through eighth grades, and 25 in core subject classes in high school. The limits were phased in and now are in full effect. 
 
This newspaper opposed the class size limits from the beginning. 
 
There was something inherently nutty about the idea of constantly moving students around to meet cookie-cutter targets. Supporters said smaller classes would improve education, but research on that point was fuzzy. Beginning in the late 1980s, Kansas City, Mo., reduced student-teacher ratios to about 12-to-1 and built 15 new schools; a 1998 study found that those reforms had failed to raise test scores. 
 
Test scores aren’t booming in Okaloosa County, either. In June of this year, we reported that FCAT results “showed the number of students passing the writing exam had fallen below the state average and that fewer third-graders passed the math section of the (test) than last year.” 
 
Clearly, smaller classes are not a quick path to educational excellence. 
 
School officials in Walton and Santa Rosa counties are reaching a similar conclusion. They say they’ve struggled to meet the class size limits by shuffling students from classroom to classroom and hiring more teachers, but it’s a losing battle. 
 
Said Walton Superintendent of Schools Carlene Anderson: “I’m not going to start scrambling children around just to make the numbers fit.” 
 
Unfortunately, making the numbers fit is what the class size decree is all about.

Here is what many in this country (and Congress) fail to grasp: When something is properly made a law, you then have to follow it whether you agree with it or not.

If you don't like it, change the law. I voted for the amendment, as did the majority of voters. The school board had years to implement it and failed. That is unacceptable.

Here is what many in this country (and Congress) fail to grasp: When something is properly made a law, you then have to follow it whether you agree with it or not. 
 
If you don&#039;t like it, change the law. I voted for the amendment, as did the majority of voters. The school board had years to implement it and failed. That is unacceptable.

[quote="Zebraspots, post: 796468"]Here is what many in this country (and Congress) fail to grasp: When something is properly made a law, you then have to follow it whether you agree with it or not.

If you don't like it, change the law. I voted for the amendment, as did the majority of voters. The school board had years to implement it and failed. That is unacceptable.[/QUOTE]

Tell that to our present President and many, many others in Washington D.C.  To think that school class size improves the education of students is a joke.

<blockquote class="xfBb-quote" data-name="Zebraspots">Here is what many in this country (and Congress) fail to grasp: When something is properly made a law, you then have to follow it whether you agree with it or not. 
 
If you don&#039;t like it, change the law. I voted for the amendment, as did the majority of voters. The school board had years to implement it and failed. That is unacceptable.</blockquote> 
Tell that to our present President and many, many others in Washington D.C. To think that school class size improves the education of students is a joke.

[quote="Andy A, post: 796469"]Tell that to our present President and many, many others in Washington D.C.  To think that school class size improves the education of students is a joke.[/QUOTE]
Based on what? An editorial from the Daily News. [B][I][U]Personally[/U][/I][/B], I think that if The State and Federal governments stayed out of local schools and allowed them to educate and test instead of having FCAT and Common Core type programs and a teacher to student ratio that allow for more education and less babysitting we may be better off. That is just my opinion. I teach classes and the groups I teach through limit the student to teacher ratio from 10-1 and 6-1 depending on the curriculum.

<blockquote class="xfBb-quote" data-name="Andy A">Tell that to our present President and many, many others in Washington D.C. To think that school class size improves the education of students is a joke.</blockquote>Based on what? An editorial from the Daily News. Personally, I think that if The State and Federal governments stayed out of local schools and allowed them to educate and test instead of having FCAT and Common Core type programs and a teacher to student ratio that allow for more education and less babysitting we may be better off. That is just my opinion. I teach classes and the groups I teach through limit the student to teacher ratio from 10-1 and 6-1 depending on the curriculum.

meggiemom

Beach Lover

I was reading the Daily News and noted that Walton Schools are not in compliance with the 
class size law.  Maybe our school system is a little top heavy.

I was reading the Daily News and noted that Walton Schools are not in compliance with the 
class size law. Maybe our school system is a little top heavy.

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