Don't know how to find the link... Will post later if someone else doesn't.
They are going to tear out the oaks and put palm trees. Medjool palms, like at Alys. Also, they are going to put brick pavers around the inside of the circle, and add a walkway around the amphitheater.
I'm for everything except the tree changes. I think date palms are tacky.
I also think this current renovation is foreboding of a complete re haul of Seaside, south of 30-A, including 4 story structures. I cite Bud & Alleys PCB as another canary in the coal mine.
Replies
150
Admin
Yes - the oaks will be replaced by 44 palms. The drainage issues are also to be addressed. This has been planned for quite awhile.
A fence is up around the amphitheater for a couple of months during construction. All businesses remain open and parking is not affected.
A fence is up around the amphitheater for a couple of months during construction. All businesses remain open and parking is not affected.
Edited
beats on hood
Wait a minute! Remember this thread http://sowal.com/bb/showthread.php/31988-Seaside-Changes?highlight=seaside+trees ? Why did Seaside do a 180 on the trees? I really thought it was a good move that Seaside used native plant material in 2009.
EDIT: Here's my guess. As the trees got fuller, the branches started interfering with pedestrians and the trailers. They provided nice shade in the summer for dining at the trailers, but we've also had our food pooped on by birds that were perching above us in the trees. Severe pruning might have been an option, but then they wouldn't look natural.
Still don't like palm trees in the Panhandle.
EDIT: Here's my guess. As the trees got fuller, the branches started interfering with pedestrians and the trailers. They provided nice shade in the summer for dining at the trailers, but we've also had our food pooped on by birds that were perching above us in the trees. Severe pruning might have been an option, but then they wouldn't look natural.
Still don't like palm trees in the Panhandle.
Edited
SoWal Insider
I think we should start WAP: Waltonians against palms.
SWGB
Wait until the plans for the south side come out, palm trees will be the least of people's concerns.
beats on hood
Wait until the plans for the south side come out, palm trees will be the least of people's concerns.I've always expected that it would just be a matter of time until south of 30A goes big. That property is just too valuable for one-story buildings. I've heard rumors for years.
The Boatyard investment is interesting; hope Dave stays in Seaside too as other changes occur.
Beach Lover
Try CNU.org... then search Seaside Town Square and Beach Front Master Plan
Some changes are coming!
Some changes are coming!
Beach Fanatic
Try CNU.org... then search Seaside Town Square and Beach Front Master Plan Some changes are coming!WOW this is dated 3/2/11 are the plans
And walkway phase I ? Looks like trailers will someday be replaced ? Interesting
Beach Fanatic
WOW this is dated 3/2/11 are the plans And walkway phase I ? Looks like trailers will someday be replaced ? InterestingAlso do you think the palms which are on the drawing are also part if Phase I ?
Admin
#102
Admin
A few details...
It's well known that the Seaside amphitheater is also a retention pond. The old wooden stage allowed for most water to collect underneath and drain over time. The new stage took away a lot of volume for water to stand, and then drain, so even small rain events are causing standing water. The new plan will add gravel and buried pipe around the perimeter of the amphitheater. This will catch much of the water draining off buildings and parking areas.
The oaks had to be removed to create this system. Even if there was room, Oak root systems would not be compatible. A double row of 44 Medjool Date Palms will be installed with a promenade in between for the Farmers Market and other events.
The oaks will be taken to a nearby nursery. It is hoped they will survive. The concrete apron around the amphitheater will be removed and replaced by brick pavers to match most of the existing surface. I heard there may also be a mesh canopy for shade between the trees.
I was really glad when the oaks were planted. The native southern touch, along with the promise of shade, and the smell of BBQ and burgers just made it feel homier. While I prefer native vegetation wherever possible, I don't doubt the palms will be stunning. Especially lit at night. I look forward to taking photos of the amphitheater no matter what's going on. It will be odd for awhile because the fronds of the new palms are supposed to remain tied vertical for a year after installation.
As for the other plans for the square and beachfront - there have been major changes planned from day one. It is a constantly evolving town which is a work of art and life in progress - fun to watch.
It's well known that the Seaside amphitheater is also a retention pond. The old wooden stage allowed for most water to collect underneath and drain over time. The new stage took away a lot of volume for water to stand, and then drain, so even small rain events are causing standing water. The new plan will add gravel and buried pipe around the perimeter of the amphitheater. This will catch much of the water draining off buildings and parking areas.
The oaks had to be removed to create this system. Even if there was room, Oak root systems would not be compatible. A double row of 44 Medjool Date Palms will be installed with a promenade in between for the Farmers Market and other events.
The oaks will be taken to a nearby nursery. It is hoped they will survive. The concrete apron around the amphitheater will be removed and replaced by brick pavers to match most of the existing surface. I heard there may also be a mesh canopy for shade between the trees.
I was really glad when the oaks were planted. The native southern touch, along with the promise of shade, and the smell of BBQ and burgers just made it feel homier. While I prefer native vegetation wherever possible, I don't doubt the palms will be stunning. Especially lit at night. I look forward to taking photos of the amphitheater no matter what's going on. It will be odd for awhile because the fronds of the new palms are supposed to remain tied vertical for a year after installation.
As for the other plans for the square and beachfront - there have been major changes planned from day one. It is a constantly evolving town which is a work of art and life in progress - fun to watch.
Admin
#121
I'm glad I was there Saturday night to preserve this scene.
Admin
http://www.cnu.org/resources/projects/seaside-town-square-and-beachfront-master-plan-2011
The ongoing ability of Seaside, even after 30 years, to adapt and evolve urbanistically, architecturally, and socially, is one of it’s most often overlooked characteristics. Yet even as Seaside evolves, there is a distinct character that defines Seaside that is embodied within the changes. This Master Plan, which was the product of many hands-on meetings with Seaside’s Town Founders, establishes a framework for the evolution of the town square and the beachside district of Seaside that will allow it to evolve; at the same time it will enhance the character so specific to Seaside.
The purpose of the plan is to create a modern day agora for Seaside with a new beachside plaza that provides a much stronger link between the downtown and the ocean, improvements to the Town Square that reinforce it as the center of activity, new market buildings that reinforce the downtown as a center of commerce, and a newly designed Civic Tower that will serve as a beacon for Seaside and the region.
The Amphitheater Perimeter
The outer edge of the amphitheater is lined with three continuous rows of palm trees, which support canvas panels and provide a continuous shaded walkway along the new 20’ wide boardwalk. This space can function with small kiosks or booths for programmed events. These palms visually define the inner edge of the amphitheater, but also provide long views across the amphitheater toward the tower and market buildings and beyond to the new plaza. The inner edge of Central Square Drive has been converted to parallel parking for daily use and will integrate a rolled curb to allow head-in parking during special events so vendors can pull vehicles onto the boardwalk.
Beachside Plaza
The new plaza is approximately 85’ wide x 125’ long and establishes a formal relationship between the Seaside Square and the market area to the beach and ocean. The vibrant, hardscaped public space is bounded by two approximately 4,800-square foot, two-story, buildings with deep, two-story arcades that clearly define both sides of the plaza. The western-most building on the plaza is skewed to define the view toward the Seaside pavilion from the Highway 30-A viewing axis.
The plan’s framework primarily reinforces the major moves that the original plan put in place 25 years ago and enables the downtown to take the next step in its evolution as a true urban place. It combines the several – now somewhat disparate elements within the center – into a modern day agora.
Beachside Residences
Up to 14 residential units have been designed to define a pattern along the beachside dunes, similar to the scale and character of the second phase of Scott Merill’s Honeymoon Cottages. These units maintain the strong east- west pedestrian axis and serve as a transition from the 50’ tall gateway buildings to the arcaded buildings that define the new plaza.
The New Market Area
The new market area flanks a civic tower on the east and west sides and defines the southern edge of the amphitheater. The parti of the market area takes its cues from the original Perspicasity markets, whose program will be relocated to the eastern portion of the new market area by providing a similar outdoor market or bazaar- like shopping environment. The western portion will be occupied by a restaurant and bar. The markets are anchored by “temple bar” buildings on each end that contrast heavy masonry construction with light wood shutters.
Architecturally, these buildings take cues from the elegant restraint of Charles Barrett’s pool pavilion, that so successfully combined classical and vernacular forms, and from detailing, that seems to have foreshadowed the evolution of Seaside’s and the region’s architecture. These buildings reference ancient Greek stoas but are adapted to feel in place in Seaside. This reference is most evident in the two-story portion of the market buildings that provide “open-air” dining on the upper floor and will serve as a backdrop for performances in the amphitheater.
What will downtown Seaside ultimately evolve into? Purposeful or not, this plan still seems to leave room for future evolution. For instance, would it make sense to define the inner perimeter of the square with buildings? There is no reason that this could not happen in the future. Like all good urban places it seems that Seaside will continue to evolve long after this plan is in place.
Response to Charter Award Principles
This Plan is submitted in the category related to the second scale of the Charter: Neighborhoods, Districts, and Corridors. The project area is the downtown and beachfront areas of the existing New Urban town of Seaside, Florida.
Currently, the amphitheater informally accommodates performances throughout the year but feels unfinished; the beachfront accommodates “temporary” commercial structures that were built almost 30 years ago and airstream trailers occupy the area between Highway 30A and the amphitheater, providing incubator spaces for new businesses. The plan calls for the formalization of the amphitheater perimeter and stage to better accommodate performances, an intensification of the beachfront area with a range and mix of uses that will reinforce the walkability of Seaside, the integration of new public spaces and a civic tower to reinforce the importance of the public realm in an urban place, and a series of new market buildings and restaurant uses defining the southern edge of the amphitheater. Since the Plan is redeveloping an area of the town with respect to its overall urban pattern and begins to show designs for the primary buildings within the area, it touches upon all scales of the Charter for New Urbanism.
Charter Principle Six
The plan’s framework primarily reinforces the major moves that the original plan put in place 25 years ago and enables the downtown to take the next step in its evolution as a true urban place. It combines the several – now somewhat disparate elements within the center – into a modern day agora.
The ongoing ability of Seaside, even after 30 years, to adapt and evolve urbanistically, architecturally, and socially, is one of Seaside’s most important characteristics that is often overlooked. Yet even as Seaside evolves, there is a distinct character that defines Seaside that is embodied within the changes. This Master Plan establishes a framework for the evolution of the town square and the beachside district of Seaside that will allow it to evolve, but at the same time enhance, the character that is specific to Seaside.
Charter Principle Twelve
The purpose of the plan is to create a modern day agora for Seaside with a new beachside plaza that provides a much stronger link between the downtown and the ocean, improvements to the Town Square that reinforce it as the center of activity, new market buildings that reinforce the downtown as a center of commerce, and a newly designed civic tower that will serve as a civic beacon for Seaside and the region.
Charter Principle Sixteen
The new market area flanks a civic tower on the east and west sides and defines the southern edge of the amphitheater. The parti of the market area takes it cues from the original Perspicasity markets, whose program will be relocated to the eastern portion of the new market area by providing a similar outdoor market or bazaar- like shopping environment. The western portion will be occupied by a restaurant and bar. The markets are anchored by “temple bar” buildings on each end that contrast heavy masonry construction with light wood shutters.
Architecturally, these buildings take cues from the elegant restraint of Charles Barrett’s pool pavilion that so successfully combined classical and vernacular forms and from detailing that seems to have foreshadowed the evolution of Seaside’s and the region’s architecture. These buildings reference ancient Greek stoas while, at the same time, adapting them to feel in place in Seaside. This reference is most evident in the two-story portion of the market buildings that provide “open-air” dining on the upper floor and will serve as a backdrop for performances in the amphitheater.
Charter Principle Nineteen
The new plaza is approximately 85’ wide x 125’ long, and establishes a formal relationship between the Seaside Square and the market area to the beach and ocean. The vibrant, hard-scaped public space is bounded by two approximately 4,800 square foot, two-story, buildings with deep, two-story arcades that clearly define both sides of the plaza. The western-most building on the plaza is skewed to define the view toward the Seaside pavilion from the Highway 30-A viewing axis.
Lessons learned: The ongoing ability of Seaside, even after 30 years, to adapt and evolve urbanistically, architecturally, and socially is one of Seaside’s most important characteristics that is often overlooked. The retail programming within vibrant urban places needs constant attention to ensure the economic success of the place. Great urban places are always evolving. Therefore this plan still leaves room for future evolution. For instance, would it make sense to define the inner perimeter of the square with buildings? There is no reason that this could not happen in the future. Like all good urban places it seems that Seaside will continue to evolve long after this plan is in place. Well-detailed architecture reinforces the quality of a place. Architecturally, the buildings in this master plan take cues from the elegant restraint of Charles Barrett’s pool pavilion that so successfully combined classical and vernacular forms and detailing that seems to have foreshadowed the evolution of Seaside’s and the region’s architecture. These buildings reference ancient Greek Stoas while at the same time adapting them to feel in place in Seaside. This reference is most evident in the two-story portion of the market buildings that provide “open-air” dining on the upper floor and will serve as a backdrop for performances in the amphitheater.
The ongoing ability of Seaside, even after 30 years, to adapt and evolve urbanistically, architecturally, and socially, is one of it’s most often overlooked characteristics. Yet even as Seaside evolves, there is a distinct character that defines Seaside that is embodied within the changes. This Master Plan, which was the product of many hands-on meetings with Seaside’s Town Founders, establishes a framework for the evolution of the town square and the beachside district of Seaside that will allow it to evolve; at the same time it will enhance the character so specific to Seaside.
The purpose of the plan is to create a modern day agora for Seaside with a new beachside plaza that provides a much stronger link between the downtown and the ocean, improvements to the Town Square that reinforce it as the center of activity, new market buildings that reinforce the downtown as a center of commerce, and a newly designed Civic Tower that will serve as a beacon for Seaside and the region.
The Amphitheater Perimeter
The outer edge of the amphitheater is lined with three continuous rows of palm trees, which support canvas panels and provide a continuous shaded walkway along the new 20’ wide boardwalk. This space can function with small kiosks or booths for programmed events. These palms visually define the inner edge of the amphitheater, but also provide long views across the amphitheater toward the tower and market buildings and beyond to the new plaza. The inner edge of Central Square Drive has been converted to parallel parking for daily use and will integrate a rolled curb to allow head-in parking during special events so vendors can pull vehicles onto the boardwalk.
Beachside Plaza
The new plaza is approximately 85’ wide x 125’ long and establishes a formal relationship between the Seaside Square and the market area to the beach and ocean. The vibrant, hardscaped public space is bounded by two approximately 4,800-square foot, two-story, buildings with deep, two-story arcades that clearly define both sides of the plaza. The western-most building on the plaza is skewed to define the view toward the Seaside pavilion from the Highway 30-A viewing axis.
The plan’s framework primarily reinforces the major moves that the original plan put in place 25 years ago and enables the downtown to take the next step in its evolution as a true urban place. It combines the several – now somewhat disparate elements within the center – into a modern day agora.
Beachside Residences
Up to 14 residential units have been designed to define a pattern along the beachside dunes, similar to the scale and character of the second phase of Scott Merill’s Honeymoon Cottages. These units maintain the strong east- west pedestrian axis and serve as a transition from the 50’ tall gateway buildings to the arcaded buildings that define the new plaza.
The New Market Area
The new market area flanks a civic tower on the east and west sides and defines the southern edge of the amphitheater. The parti of the market area takes its cues from the original Perspicasity markets, whose program will be relocated to the eastern portion of the new market area by providing a similar outdoor market or bazaar- like shopping environment. The western portion will be occupied by a restaurant and bar. The markets are anchored by “temple bar” buildings on each end that contrast heavy masonry construction with light wood shutters.
Architecturally, these buildings take cues from the elegant restraint of Charles Barrett’s pool pavilion, that so successfully combined classical and vernacular forms, and from detailing, that seems to have foreshadowed the evolution of Seaside’s and the region’s architecture. These buildings reference ancient Greek stoas but are adapted to feel in place in Seaside. This reference is most evident in the two-story portion of the market buildings that provide “open-air” dining on the upper floor and will serve as a backdrop for performances in the amphitheater.
What will downtown Seaside ultimately evolve into? Purposeful or not, this plan still seems to leave room for future evolution. For instance, would it make sense to define the inner perimeter of the square with buildings? There is no reason that this could not happen in the future. Like all good urban places it seems that Seaside will continue to evolve long after this plan is in place.
Response to Charter Award Principles
This Plan is submitted in the category related to the second scale of the Charter: Neighborhoods, Districts, and Corridors. The project area is the downtown and beachfront areas of the existing New Urban town of Seaside, Florida.
Currently, the amphitheater informally accommodates performances throughout the year but feels unfinished; the beachfront accommodates “temporary” commercial structures that were built almost 30 years ago and airstream trailers occupy the area between Highway 30A and the amphitheater, providing incubator spaces for new businesses. The plan calls for the formalization of the amphitheater perimeter and stage to better accommodate performances, an intensification of the beachfront area with a range and mix of uses that will reinforce the walkability of Seaside, the integration of new public spaces and a civic tower to reinforce the importance of the public realm in an urban place, and a series of new market buildings and restaurant uses defining the southern edge of the amphitheater. Since the Plan is redeveloping an area of the town with respect to its overall urban pattern and begins to show designs for the primary buildings within the area, it touches upon all scales of the Charter for New Urbanism.
Charter Principle Six
The plan’s framework primarily reinforces the major moves that the original plan put in place 25 years ago and enables the downtown to take the next step in its evolution as a true urban place. It combines the several – now somewhat disparate elements within the center – into a modern day agora.
The ongoing ability of Seaside, even after 30 years, to adapt and evolve urbanistically, architecturally, and socially, is one of Seaside’s most important characteristics that is often overlooked. Yet even as Seaside evolves, there is a distinct character that defines Seaside that is embodied within the changes. This Master Plan establishes a framework for the evolution of the town square and the beachside district of Seaside that will allow it to evolve, but at the same time enhance, the character that is specific to Seaside.
Charter Principle Twelve
The purpose of the plan is to create a modern day agora for Seaside with a new beachside plaza that provides a much stronger link between the downtown and the ocean, improvements to the Town Square that reinforce it as the center of activity, new market buildings that reinforce the downtown as a center of commerce, and a newly designed civic tower that will serve as a civic beacon for Seaside and the region.
Charter Principle Sixteen
The new market area flanks a civic tower on the east and west sides and defines the southern edge of the amphitheater. The parti of the market area takes it cues from the original Perspicasity markets, whose program will be relocated to the eastern portion of the new market area by providing a similar outdoor market or bazaar- like shopping environment. The western portion will be occupied by a restaurant and bar. The markets are anchored by “temple bar” buildings on each end that contrast heavy masonry construction with light wood shutters.
Architecturally, these buildings take cues from the elegant restraint of Charles Barrett’s pool pavilion that so successfully combined classical and vernacular forms and from detailing that seems to have foreshadowed the evolution of Seaside’s and the region’s architecture. These buildings reference ancient Greek stoas while, at the same time, adapting them to feel in place in Seaside. This reference is most evident in the two-story portion of the market buildings that provide “open-air” dining on the upper floor and will serve as a backdrop for performances in the amphitheater.
Charter Principle Nineteen
The new plaza is approximately 85’ wide x 125’ long, and establishes a formal relationship between the Seaside Square and the market area to the beach and ocean. The vibrant, hard-scaped public space is bounded by two approximately 4,800 square foot, two-story, buildings with deep, two-story arcades that clearly define both sides of the plaza. The western-most building on the plaza is skewed to define the view toward the Seaside pavilion from the Highway 30-A viewing axis.
Lessons learned: The ongoing ability of Seaside, even after 30 years, to adapt and evolve urbanistically, architecturally, and socially is one of Seaside’s most important characteristics that is often overlooked. The retail programming within vibrant urban places needs constant attention to ensure the economic success of the place. Great urban places are always evolving. Therefore this plan still leaves room for future evolution. For instance, would it make sense to define the inner perimeter of the square with buildings? There is no reason that this could not happen in the future. Like all good urban places it seems that Seaside will continue to evolve long after this plan is in place. Well-detailed architecture reinforces the quality of a place. Architecturally, the buildings in this master plan take cues from the elegant restraint of Charles Barrett’s pool pavilion that so successfully combined classical and vernacular forms and detailing that seems to have foreshadowed the evolution of Seaside’s and the region’s architecture. These buildings reference ancient Greek Stoas while at the same time adapting them to feel in place in Seaside. This reference is most evident in the two-story portion of the market buildings that provide “open-air” dining on the upper floor and will serve as a backdrop for performances in the amphitheater.
Admin
#143
beats on hood
Gosh, when I was getting coffee at Modica yesterday morning, I didn't realize that would be the last time I'd see Seaside as it was. I would have taken a photo even though the fence was up. I just assumed that the fence had something to do with repairing the drainage problem at the amphitheater.
AndI thought it had changed so much since our first visit in 1987 until I read this thread.
Things change ... life goes on.
Thanks, Kurt for preserving the memories with your photography.
AndI thought it had changed so much since our first visit in 1987 until I read this thread.
Things change ... life goes on.
Thanks, Kurt for preserving the memories with your photography.
Beach Fanatic
Just one man's opinion. There goes the quaint ambiance that endeared South Walton to so many. Rosemary Beach personified.
Beach Comber
Thanks for the in process photos Kurt! I saw the new Seaside plan last year and while I personally like it, it did make me wonder how they are possibly going to finance all those new buildings. Alys Beach for example has an ambitious downtown plan and they've not managed to build any of the larger buildings, only just recently adding the single story Alys store.
beats on hood
Of course, remember how long it seemed to take for Rosemary to get the main check-in/real estate building, not to mention the restaurants, out of temporary buildings.
Beach Lover
Just one man's opinion. There goes the quaint ambiance that endeared South Walton to so many. Rosemary Beach personified.I have faith Seaside will still be endearing for all .
Beach Fanatic
Except the lucky locals who have to drive through town during the spring and summer months 
Admin
Except the lucky locals who have to drive through town during the spring and summer months
It can be a pain but when I don't have to be anywhere too soon I like to people watch from behind the wheel. Sometimes I see things that make me wish I could just put it in park.
Admin
#226
Beach Fanatic
I really like the new plans with the exceptions of the palms, the reduction in parking spaces, and the giant tower replacing the post office. I love that post office. 
Paving will be a nice upgrade for the Farmer's Market and it looks like they are getting rid of most of the commercial space currently south of 30a, so perhaps there will be fewer people constantly running across the street and slowing traffic.
Paving will be a nice upgrade for the Farmer's Market and it looks like they are getting rid of most of the commercial space currently south of 30a, so perhaps there will be fewer people constantly running across the street and slowing traffic.
Beach Lover
I love the plan also 
Beach Fanatic
i really like the new plans with the exceptions of the palms, the reduction in parking spaces, and the giant tower replacing the post office. I love that post office.yea!!!
Beach Fanatic
I guess time will tell. It is nice to have access to Seaside, it is the epitome of nice place to visit, wouldn't want to live there.
Checking your forum account
Please wait while we verify your forum account.