Walton TDC seeking proposals for sports complex / arts facility on 102 acres
The TDC is seeking proposals for a sports complex facility to sit on approximately 102 acres. Page 22 details to proposed additions to facilities.
I have attached a copy of the RPF for everyone to study.
Are they proposing an additional 1/2 cent bedtax to fund ?
Where is the citizen involvement in this complex ?
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238
Beach Fanatic
Sports are different now than when we were kids. Many sports are practically year round, and many kids play on school teams and comp or rec teams outside of school. Personally, that lifestyle is not for my family, but we are friends with many families here and around the country whose lives pretty much revolve around the kids' sports and traveling every weekend, etc. We have good friends in KY- all 3 boys played uber-competitive soccer, and played for their school teams. Boys 1 & 2 got full rides to Vassar and UA-Huntsville. The cost was the family split apart every weekend to attend multiple soccer tournaments- they were never in town and never together. But many families choose this route, and many families moving here expect this level of sports.
Say goodbye to real summer vacations- the kids are on the road, or not allowed to leave due to practice schedules. But that is the way things are now. Many family vacations revolve around tournaments.
Oh and BTW- I like "Cultural Coast " too. It is our cultural offerings that differentiate us from the neighboring areas.
You might try Google ! Massachusetts Beat You To It !
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Massachusetts Cultural Coast
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Meow
You might try Google ! Massachusetts Beat You To It !
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Massachusetts Cultural Coast
This was such a eye opening and interesting thread to read...until the last post. Wow, so helpful. :roll:
I love bdarg's idea...The Beaches of South Walton, The Cultural Coast!
This group of posters have great vision!
Beach Fanatic
But many families choose this route, and many families moving here expect this level of sports.
How many families are moving here, period? I thought that the school population was dropping.
And how many families "expect" this level of sports? And why should their expectations be funded by tourists, exactly?
Beach Fanatic
So then the, generally, lowest charge of bed tax doesn't play into your scenario.
As to the trick question, my monies on Okaloosa. ;-)
That truly was a trick question, being as the answer is "none of the above."
And total tax is already at 12% in Bay County.
SoWal Expert
You might try Google ! Massachusetts Beat You To It !The last time I checked, the Massachusetts Cultural Coast is not in Florida. :roll:
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Massachusetts Cultural Coast
Beach Fanatic
The last time I checked, the Massachusetts Cultural Coast is not in Florida. :roll:
SJ - I agree that Its not in Florida but we are now competing for tourist in an ever increasing target market. Branding has been and will continue to be a major portion of destination marketing. People google today and although I personally like the Phrase Cultural Coast it has been and continues to be marketed in the same areas where the TDC is headed to expand markets.
Many here are talking about Vision as if they are the only people that possess it. I believe that one must remember that the same group that has a Vision for Sports Complexes and Cultural Centers are the same people that had a vision that lead to the now infamous Big Blue Signs.
One should not confuse their vision of attracting more people to the area with a concern for our community and its full time residents. You spoke very directly to the potential costs associated with quality of life for residents once we build such facilities with marketing the area, bring more people here, filling the coffers with cash at the cost of a decrease in the true quality of life.
The TDC has one purpose - bringing more people here and their track records shows that their sensitivity to the "uniqueness of the area" is secondary to their primary mission. (Big Blue Signs come to mind)
I would rather have a "vision" of improving the quality of life, expanding the sense of community with a project developed for full time residents first and tourism second.
That I could support, would support and will be willing to pay my share of the costs to build and operate. If we are always willing to allow others to provide the necessary dollars to build develop and operate, we will get facilities built to attract tourist rather than improving the quality of life for our children and grandchildren.
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Beach Fanatic
That was a good post, I.G. I think unfortunately some people on both sides of the fence (like the idea or hate the idea) en-vision a giant monstrosity that sticks out like a sore thumb in plain view of US98 and all that live here.
I think there are other options, and we can do better than that. The idea of a Sportsplex, or perhaps smaller facilities spread out over the county, to serve the community first and to attract vacationer and full time residents alike is not a novel concept and not an idea that the TDC came up with all on their lonesome to stick it to the locals while lining their coffers. There are some genuine needs here now, which include more and better athletic, cultural arts, and entertainment facilities, and there is legitimate interest in making sure it is done right so that we take full advantage of and build on what makes South Walton this uniquely fantastic place we call home, and not ruin it.
Every summer and every year people consider whether they would like to make this their home, just as all of us have. And there are certainly no shortages of homes or lots in developments that they could take advantage of, instead of them sitting there empty. It is up to us as members of this community to make sure any growth is done responsibly, and I think that is ultimately what people want through the proposal of these athletic and arts facilities. Infrastructure such as this is important, and it may not be for everyone (I doubt everyone uses the library as well), but undoubtedly will enrich many of the lives of those who live here, as well as those who visit.
I think there are other options, and we can do better than that. The idea of a Sportsplex, or perhaps smaller facilities spread out over the county, to serve the community first and to attract vacationer and full time residents alike is not a novel concept and not an idea that the TDC came up with all on their lonesome to stick it to the locals while lining their coffers. There are some genuine needs here now, which include more and better athletic, cultural arts, and entertainment facilities, and there is legitimate interest in making sure it is done right so that we take full advantage of and build on what makes South Walton this uniquely fantastic place we call home, and not ruin it.
Every summer and every year people consider whether they would like to make this their home, just as all of us have. And there are certainly no shortages of homes or lots in developments that they could take advantage of, instead of them sitting there empty. It is up to us as members of this community to make sure any growth is done responsibly, and I think that is ultimately what people want through the proposal of these athletic and arts facilities. Infrastructure such as this is important, and it may not be for everyone (I doubt everyone uses the library as well), but undoubtedly will enrich many of the lives of those who live here, as well as those who visit.
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SoWal Expert
It's not just school kids who would use an indoor sports facility in Sowal - it's not only a draw, but it's a great health/fitness resource for the community as a whole. Water aerobics for seniors, swimming lessons or swim team for kids, evening sports leagues, you name it.
I know I would regularly use a facility with an indoor pool, tennis courts, raquetball, a track etc.
Yes, nature and parks are a nice way to get exercise, but not when it's rainy, buggy, hot, dark, red flag, jellyfishy, winter etc.
I know I would regularly use a facility with an indoor pool, tennis courts, raquetball, a track etc.
Yes, nature and parks are a nice way to get exercise, but not when it's rainy, buggy, hot, dark, red flag, jellyfishy, winter etc.
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Beach Fanatic
Plus, the term "preventive medicine" comes to mind. More health and fitness options, more healthy and fit people (of any age), less of our community in the hospital, hospice, and/or visiting doctors, and less of a financial cost to all of us.
Just one of many indirect benefits.
Just one of many indirect benefits.
Beach Fanatic
That truly was a trick question, being as the answer is "none of the above."
And total tax is already at 12% in Bay County.
Are you sure about Bay Counties total tax ? It appears to be 11%. 6% sales tax (no local option sales tax) + 5% bedtax.
Beach Fanatic
looks like from the chart that of the 102 acres only half will be developed and the other half left as "wetland"...sure wish they would give us some parcel numbers.
Beach LoverAuthor
looks like from the chart that of the 102 acres only half will be developed and the other half left as "wetland"...sure wish they would give us some parcel numbers.
We were told by one TDC Board member that they have not located the land at this time and the project may need to be spread over 2 sites, but that is unconfirmed.
SWGB
You might try Google ! Massachusetts Beat You To It !
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Massachusetts Cultural Coast
Luckily they didn't throw the TM on the end so it's up for grabs.
That truly was a trick question, being as the answer is "none of the above."
And total tax is already at 12% in Bay County.
Thanks, forgot about their increase for the low cost air carrier.
Are you sure about Bay Counties total tax ? It appears to be 11%. 6% sales tax (no local option sales tax) + 5% bedtax.
Take another Aricept. I'll go with the expert here.
Beach Fanatic
Luckily they didn't throw the TM on the end so it's up for grabs.
Thanks, forgot about their increase for the low cost air carrier.
Take another Aricept. I'll go with the expert here.
I will also go with the expert and wait for her to answer the question.
Your constant reference to Aricept is growing old. I am not ashamed or embarassed with my medical diagnosis.
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Beach Fanatic
Are you sure about Bay Counties total tax ? It appears to be 11%. 6% sales tax (no local option sales tax) + 5% bedtax.
I checked with my buddy in Bay County to be sure. Properties located in the city of Panama City Beach have an additional 1% tax, collected directly by the city of PCB. This brings the total to 12%.
We didn't discuss Mexico Beach, but I imagine it is 11% there.
The bed tax is not collected in Panama City proper, or the total would be over 13%. I know that the total sales tax at Target/Kohl's and at Sam's is different, but in both spots it is over 8%.
Beach Fanatic
I checked with my buddy in Bay County to be sure. Properties located in the city of Panama City Beach have an additional 1% tax, collected directly by the city of PCB. This brings the total to 12%.
We didn't discuss Mexico Beach, but I imagine it is 11% there.
The bed tax is not collected in Panama City proper, or the total would be over 13%. I know that the total sales tax at Target/Kohl's and at Sam's is different, but in both spots it is over 8%.
So the 12% is a combination of a 6% sales tax, 5% bedtax, and a 1% License fee levied by the City of Panama City Beach.
Thank you so much oh expert one !
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Beach Fanatic
Are you sure about Bay Counties total tax ? It appears to be 11%. 6% sales tax (no local option sales tax) + 5% bedtax.
One of those places, I think PC Beach, has a 1% merchant fee, not a tax. Something that I think is only done in two places in the State. Do not know how that falls in the big picture.
Beach Fanatic
One of those places, I think PC Beach, has a 1% merchant fee, not a tax. Something that I think is only done in two places in the State. Do not know how that falls in the big picture.
Bay County considers PCB's to be a tax; perhaps I should check with my friends at DOR to be sure. But if we are speaking of merchant fees, there are at least three neighborhoods in SoWal that charge those. One of those is at 2%.
Where it really gets funn is when you have to explain to a homeowner in one of those "neighborhoods" that tax must be charged on the merchant fee. That tends to draw a negative response.:roll:
Beach Fanatic
What, there are communities that have merchant fees, that must devastate business and keep tourist from going there. I am sure it is a blighted neighborhood and those businesses are closing their doors left and right.
SoWal Insider
Do we really want to spend money on world renown sport complexes in an effort to bring even more tourists here? SoWal sometimes feels like one gigantic hotel. I'd much prefer we concentrate on building facilities that promote our community, rather than tourism. Particularly facilities that serve the needs of our full-time residents, especially the families that live here.
Local community oriented facilities usually aren?t that expensive. A community pool, a baseball diamond where it?s needed, a soccer field ? all good long term investments because they attract full time residents that pay taxes and help build a better, more close knit community of friends and neighbors. (This kind of community can also help promote tousim because people want to feel like they are part of it.)
If we keep headed down the road we are on, where 70% of SoWal residents only live here one week out of the year, we?ll lose what makes this area so unique.
Also, please consider that (as has been pointed out) one of the surest ways to siphon tourists away from neighboring counties is to lower tourist taxes, not increase them. Particularly if you're interesting in attracting middle income folks looking for a reasonably priced family vacation at the beach.
Local community oriented facilities usually aren?t that expensive. A community pool, a baseball diamond where it?s needed, a soccer field ? all good long term investments because they attract full time residents that pay taxes and help build a better, more close knit community of friends and neighbors. (This kind of community can also help promote tousim because people want to feel like they are part of it.)
If we keep headed down the road we are on, where 70% of SoWal residents only live here one week out of the year, we?ll lose what makes this area so unique.
Also, please consider that (as has been pointed out) one of the surest ways to siphon tourists away from neighboring counties is to lower tourist taxes, not increase them. Particularly if you're interesting in attracting middle income folks looking for a reasonably priced family vacation at the beach.
Beach Fanatic
Do we really want to spend money on world renown sport complexes in an effort to bring even more tourists here? SoWal sometimes feels like one gigantic hotel. I'd much prefer we concentrate on building facilities that promote our community, rather than tourism. Particularly facilities that serve the needs of our full-time residents, especially the families that live here.
Local community oriented facilities usually aren?t that expensive. A community pool, a baseball diamond where it?s needed, a soccer field ? all good long term investments because they attract full time residents that pay taxes and help build a better, more close knit community of friends and neighbors. (This kind of community can also help promote tousim because people want to feel like they are part of it.)
If we keep headed down the road we are on, where 70% of SoWal residents only live here one week out of the year, we?ll lose what makes this area so unique.
Also, please consider that (as has been pointed out) one of the surest ways to siphon tourists away from neighboring counties is to lower tourist taxes, not increase them. Particularly if you're interesting in attracting middle income folks looking for a reasonably priced family vacation at the beach.
Until we can bring in industry to provide jobs to our area, tourism is what provides employment to our citizens, As for the reduction in taxes for tourism, the comments about area having a merchant fee, example is Baytowne Wharf, does not seem to impact them doing business. If anything because of it they have ongoing events and music and fireworks which seems to attract people to spend money there. I like the idea of a sports and even an art complex as long as it would help the local economy. Sometimes you have to spend money to make money. I want to see 331 bridge widened but not at the expense of having a toll bridge, thats like taxing those folks making $10.00 hour cleaning rental units, or county employee making $25k a year having to pay twice a day, 5 days a week to go to work. At least the possibility is this complex could potentially be self sustaining and locals would be able to use it also. The truck stop on I 10 was assisted with tax breaks to open and when it was closed the County lost significant revenue.
SoWal Insider
Until we can bring in industry to provide jobs to our area, tourism is what provides employment to our citizens, As for the reduction in taxes for tourism, the comments about area having a merchant fee, example is Baytowne Wharf, does not seem to impact them doing business. If anything because of it they have ongoing events and music and fireworks which seems to attract people to spend money there. I like the idea of a sports and even an art complex as long as it would help the local economy. Sometimes you have to spend money to make money. I want to see 331 bridge widened but not at the expense of having a toll bridge, thats like taxing those folks making $10.00 hour cleaning rental units, or county employee making $25k a year having to pay twice a day, 5 days a week to go to work. At least the possibility is this complex could potentially be self sustaining and locals would be able to use it also. The truck stop on I 10 was assisted with tax breaks to open and when it was closed the County lost significant revenue.
There are countless ways to do that that don't involve building some huge, artsy fartsy arts complex that a mjority of full time residents won't find useful.
#1 top option if all you want to do is increase tourism and tax revenue at the expense of community - legalize gambling on the bay. (Or convince Bay County to do it.) That would generate hundreds of million of tax revenue, provide tens of thousands of jobs, and would also alow us to lower property and sales taxes.
As far as merchant taxes go, taxing small businesses create more problems that they solve. If you really want to generate revenue for something you feel you would use or need, be honest about it a support an increase in the sales tax so that everyone pays their fair share.
Beach Fanatic
Luckily they didn't throw the TM on the end so it's up for grabs.
Thanks, forgot about their increase for the low cost air carrier.
Take another Aricept. I'll go with the expert here.[/quote]
SWGB.......keep it up and you will be some sort of bait......Gator, Shark, etc...it might be time to file down that sharp tongue of yours. We may not always agree with IG, but I have to say, IMO, that was a mean comment. Whay is up with you????
Beach Fanatic
Isn't there a merchant fee in Rosemary, Seaside, Gulf Place and Bawtown? And I thought that they were optional.
Beach Fanatic
Do we really want to spend money on world renown sport complexes in an effort to bring even more tourists here?
....one of the surest ways to siphon tourists away from neighboring counties is to lower tourist taxes, not increase them. Particularly if you're interesting in attracting middle income folks looking for a reasonably priced family vacation at the beach.
Are you saying we should be against more tourists or for more tourists?
I think the implication is that this already is a world class place, at least to many, and that having a sportsplex or better sports facilities, cultural arts center, outdoor amphitheater, etc. will draw people from around the world (especially with a new Intl. Airport), and the locals get the year-round benefit of all of this needed infrastructure.
Not everyone who comes here remains a tourist. The enlightened and inspired ones many times end up calling it "home". We may be on a beautiful island, but lets not burn down all the bridges to the future in the name of preserving the present.
Time waits for no one. And we, the current residents, have a very advantageous situation currently, where we can be directly involved in how this Greater South Walton Community is shaped. With the growth east and west of us, I believe it is in our best interest to provide ideas on how to responsibly evolve this community to the benefit of as many as possible, whether permanent resident or visitor. If we wait, the future may not be quite as receptive. If nothing else, I think the County and the TDC are doing a pretty darn good job of asking for our input at this time.
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