Dennis - official notices and info

*If* there was to be a full-scale dredging project, would this not provide whiter sand than sand taken from inland areas? Sugar-white, powdery beaches are the trademark of the west/central panhandle. It is no doubt among the prettiest beaches in the world. Anything and everything should be be done to to try and keep these beaches looking as they always have. IMO, it's the main allure of the area and what initally attracted people here in the early 20th century.

And again, why not use rip-rap to repair the especially vulnerable areas, then cover with white sand and sea oats on top of that? It would utilize much less sand, provide better stabilzation, and no one would be able to tell the difference once the project was completed.

It depends on where you dredge and how deep. The State identifies pockets of white sand that are suitable, like underwater sandpits. Also, you can be dredging in a good spot, bringing up white sand, and a wave trough can cause your barge and therefore your intake tube to go to deep and you can get the brown stuff.

Any manmade item like rip rap placed within reach of a storm (which is a very long reach we are finding) will eventually be uncovered. Imagine 26 miles of rocks, concrete, aluminum, etc. uncovered at once and you get an ugly picture.

That's exactly what the variance is intended to do. There is a big story about it in the NW Fla. Daily News today. Don't know if it is available on line. Basically, the variance to the white sand ordinance was to allow slightly darker sand of 6 or higher on the Munsell color scale (whatever that is) rather than the usual 8 or higher. It is temporary, and to shore up houses that are endangered. And, residents are encouraged to use the white stuff first.

The article also says they are starting beach scraping next week, if DEP approvals can be secured. :?: :?: :?:

The article also says that one of the leading opponents in the on-going legal feud b/w the county and western county residents about that restoration project has "changed his mind" about property owners rights. What a surprise.

The article also says that 90% of beachfront properties have suffered damage from erosion.

Can you post a link to the article?

There has always been a very strict law against bringing in anything but white sand south of 30-A, because of the fear that it will eventually mix with natural sand and degrade the quality on the beaches. You can't even use non-white sand as fill in your yard, 1/2 mile from the beach in Grayton.

It was said in the meeting yesterday and I think most there accepted that covering non-white sand with white wouldn't keep the non-white hidden after the first rain and certainly not after the next storm.

Can you post a link to the article?

There has always been a very strict law against bringing in anything but white sand south of 30-A, because of the fear that it will eventually mix with natural sand and degrade the quality on the beaches. You can't even use non-white sand as fill in your yard, 1/2 mile from the beach in Grayton.

It was said in the meeting yesterday and I think most there accepted that covering non-white sand with white wouldn't keep the non-white hidden after the first rain and certainly not after the next storm.

Well, you are running into one of my many idiosyncracies here. The darn online version requires registration AND lots of personally identifiable information, with no indication of how it will be used, and I refuse to register for sites that that. Here's the web page:

http://www.nwfdailynews.com/index.shtml

The article is in section C (Local/State news), p.1 in today's paper, headlines "Darker Fill Sand is OK", byline Heather Civil.

Here's the text:

SANTA ROSA BEACH ? More than 100 panicked property owners breathed a collective sigh of relief Thursday when the Walton County Commission voted to allow them to use dark sand to shore up homes and businesses endangered by severe beach erosion.
At an emergency meeting, the commission decided to loosen the county?s existing white sand color restrictions so that property owners can repair damage from Hurricane Dennis before another storm comes.
?Our biggest enemy here is time,? County Commissioner Scott Brannon said.
White sand has a high price tag and is harder to come by than darker sand.
That has created problems for property owners in need of a fast way to reinforce foundations, said county Planning and Development Director Pat Blackshear.
?Many homeowners are having a hard time finding a source to stabilize their homes on a temporary basis that meets the standards,? she said.
About 90 percent of the beachfront properties along the Walton coastline have suffered damage from stormrelated beach erosion, Blackshear said.
Walton County?s white sand requirement allows only granules that fall at an 8 or higher on the Munsell color scale, which ranks color on a scale of 1 to 10, with 10 being whitest.
The county is temporarily allowing the use of darker sand that rates a 6 or higher on the Munsell scale to be used as fill under endangered structures.
Storm surge from the hurricane sliced through sand dunes like a hot knife through butter, destroying some homes and leaving hundreds of others teetering at the edges of unstable sand cliffs.
Hugh Lambert worries that his property in Four Mile Village may fall victim to the erosion.
Dennis? impact on the beaches there impressed him so much that he has reversed his stand against beach renourishment and fully supports the use of dark sand for repairs.
Lambert is not a party to the ongoing lawsuits on the issue but has been a vocal opponent.
?I was wrong,? he said. ?I?ve changed my mind.?
Walton County is close to two sand mining pits that provide white sand: Owl?s Head Sod Farm in Freeport and the Sikes Highway 20 Sand Pit in Chipley.
Brad Pickel, director of beach management with the Walton County Tourist Development Council, urged property owners to exhaust all possible sources of white sand before using the darker granules.
?If there?s good beach quality soil there, it?s a bad idea to leave it sitting in a pit,? he said.
Those in search of white sand could run into problems, however.
Owl?s Head provides sand only to certain contractors, and the Sikes pit has limited supplies of sand readily available.
The cost of white sand could also hinder speedy repairs.
White sand averages about $22 per cubic yard. Darker sand, which is more available, starts at around $4 per cubic yard.
The county planning department is currently compiling a list of sand sources for beachfront property repairs.
The county will allow the use of dark sand at least until a beach scraping program begins next week.
The scraping project involves moving sand from the shoreline up the beach to reinforce structures and dunes.
The county is waiting on the Department of Environmental Protection to issue a permit for the scraping.
State Sen. Charlie Clary assured commissioners that he is working with the DEP to speed up the permitting process if possible.
Commissioner Ro Cuchens made an emotional plea to the DEP to expedite the permit approval.
?These people are hurting,? he said. ?These are their homes ? everything they?ve worked for.?

10

1

Here's the text:
Brad Pickel, director of beach management with the Walton County Tourist Development Council, urged property owners to exhaust all possible sources of white sand before using the darker granules.
---snip---
The cost of white sand could also hinder speedy repairs.
White sand averages about $22 per cubic yard. Darker sand, which is more available, starts at around $4 per cubic yard.

$18/yd difference, guess which will get used. :(
'course, if I had 2-3M ready to slide onto the beach, hard telling where my head would be. Still, I budget about 1% of home value (and that's on a brand new place) annually for maint & update. Would expect that equation to hold elsewhere. Owning beachfront entails risk, and as the saying goes, if you can't afford to lose, don't bet...

10

1

So 6 is pretty gray?

Well, you are running into one of my many idiosyncracies here. The darn online version requires registration AND lots of personally identifiable information, with no indication of how it will be used, and I refuse to register for sites that that. Here's the web page:

http://www.nwfdailynews.com/index.shtml

The article is in section C (Local/State news), p.1 in today's paper, headlines "Darker Fill Sand is OK", byline Heather Civil.

If that doesn't work, try this link http://www.epaperedition.com/Daily/Skins/NWfDailyNews/Navigator.asp

Same instructions as above - click on Local/State News and it'll take you right to the first page.

I have an online subscription, but I think anyone should be able to get to this site with the above link (hopefully)

Have a great weekend all!!! :clap_1:

If that doesn't work, try this link http://www.epaperedition.com/Daily/Skins/NWfDailyNews/Navigator.asp

Same instructions as above - click on Local/State News and it'll take you right to the first page.

I have an online subscription, but I think anyone should be able to get to this site with the above link (hopefully)

Have a great weekend all!!! :clap_1:

Cool :cool: Righteously cool.

The only reason I find the variance even remotely stomach-able (and it nauseates me) is that the number of houses involved impact the community at large. And, given that some of these gulf-front owners are good folk, well we need to help them out.

The owners who carp & whine & moan incessantly about their property rights and rights to future accretions who suddenly change their minds and demand all sorts of things from the county and its taxpayers when they discover the "future accretion" nature has in mind for them have no sympathy from me. Sue mother nature for her regulatory taking, would be my response.

Hopefully this is limited and short term. Hopefully, too, those who want to build too close to the gulf will not be permitted to do so in the future.

It depends on where you dredge and how deep. The State identifies pockets of white sand that are suitable, like underwater sandpits. Also, you can be dredging in a good spot, bringing up white sand, and a wave trough can cause your barge and therefore your intake tube to go to deep and you can get the brown stuff.

Any manmade item like rip rap placed within reach of a storm (which is a very long reach we are finding) will eventually be uncovered. Imagine 26 miles of rocks, concrete, aluminum, etc. uncovered at once and you get an ugly picture.

When I speak of rip-rap, I am thinking of the gray boulders, no less than 12 inches in diameter - uniform, clean and easy to transport. The kind you see used on jetties. Use them to shore up the dune line in critical areas, completely cover them with white sand and then plant sea oats. Even if another storm hits, the rip rap ain't going anywhere. It would make future restoration projects more manageble and conserve replacement sand.

I am admittely far from an environmental engineer, but it just makes good sense to me.

The Florida Department of Environmental Protection, through consultation with other state and federal agencies, has granted Walton County permission to perform beach scraping along all 26 miles of Walton County beaches.

This permit only grants Walton County permission and NOT individual home
and property owners. Walton County is mobilizing crews to begin beach
scraping by Monday morning, July 18.

This action is a tribute to the ongoing support and assistance of our
state and federal partners, primarily the Bureau of Beaches and Coastal
Systems of the Florida Department of Environmental Protection.

In other Hurricane Dennis events, the Federal Emergency Management
Agency will open a Disaster Recovery Center in south Walton County on
Monday, July 18. This center will be located at the Coastal Branch
Library in the South Walton Government and Education complex.

Walton County has been declared a federal disaster area because of
Hurricane Dennis. Citizens are eligible to apply for individual
assistance from FEMA. This may be done in person at the Disaster
Recover Center, or by phone at (800) 621-3362.

When I speak of rip-rap, I am thinking of the gray boulders, no less than 12 inches in diameter - uniform, clean and easy to transport. The kind you see used on jetties. Use them to shore up the dune line in critical areas, completely cover them with white sand and then plant sea oats. Even if another storm hits, the rip rap ain't going anywhere. It would make future restoration projects more manageble and conserve replacement sand.

I am admittely far from an environmental engineer, but it just makes good sense to me.

I couldn't agree with you more JB. :idea: That makes the most sense and not sure why anyone hasn't done it before. As a person from a family in the boulder industry, I do know that the cost to ship all the rock in is expensive but I can't imagine that it would be more than the cost of the damage to the beaches and homes from every hurricane that comes in.

When I speak of rip-rap, I am thinking of the gray boulders, no less than 12 inches in diameter - uniform, clean and easy to transport. The kind you see used on jetties. Use them to shore up the dune line in critical areas, completely cover them with white sand and then plant sea oats. Even if another storm hits, the rip rap ain't going anywhere. It would make future restoration projects more manageble and conserve replacement sand.

I am admittely far from an environmental engineer, but it just makes good sense to me.

That must be what I was speaking of in the erosion thread regarding Fripp Island, SC. The last time I was there, the boulders were not covered with sand. Not a pretty sight, but if I had beachfront property, pretty wouldn't be foremost on my mind. Like I said, no matter what the powers that be decide (and I guess they decided on beach scraping), there will be some who will strongly disagree.

That must be what I was speaking of in the erosion thread regarding Fripp Island, SC. The last time I was there, the boulders were not covered with sand. Not a pretty sight, but if I had beachfront property, pretty wouldn't be foremost on my mind. Like I said, no matter what the powers that be decide (and I guess they decided on beach scraping), there will be some who will strongly disagree.

I wouldn't be opposed to scraping, provided there was something to scrape. If folks think the exposed peat was bad after the Ivan scraping, just wait until this one. The beaches will look absolutely horrific.

Color me shocked that the TDC has elected to go this route. IMO, they will live to regret it.

I wouldn't be opposed to scraping, provided there was something to scrape. If folks think the exposed peat was bad after the Ivan scraping, just wait until this one. The beaches will look absolutely horrific.

Color me shocked that the TDC has elected to go this route. IMO, they will live to regret it.

Who *is* in favor of beach scraping? It seems that the conventional wisdom is that not only did it not help the beaches in dealing with Dennis, but it might have actually hurt them. If the decision has been made not to let Mother Nature take her course, then should something more substantial be done? I'm just asking questions because I'm concerned - I have no expertise in this area and thus am not trying to make any suggestions.

I would expect that the scraping just approved is for the immediate situation to just get something in place for the remainder of the summer and early fall season. It would seem to be the "quickest, easiest and cheapest" way to do something (my guess).

Like others that have posted, I hope they don't make any bad short term decisions that compromise their ability to preserve as well as restore. I just hope that they know what they are doing and look at the risks/rewards of their short term decisions along with their long term decisions.

What is the "advertised", described, or desired results of scraping? In other words, what do they expect to accomplish by scraping?

I would expect that the scraping just approved is for the immediate situation to just get something in place for the remainder of the summer and early fall season. It would seem to be the "quickest, easiest and cheapest" way to do something (my guess).

Like others that have posted, I hope they don't make any bad short term decisions that compromise their ability to preserve as well as restore. I just hope that they know what they are doing and look at the risks/rewards of their short term decisions along with their long term decisions.

What is the "advertised", described, or desired results of scraping? In other words, what do they expect to accomplish by scraping?

Great question! I am having a hard time visualizing this process. Are there any photos out there?

Great question! I am having a hard time visualizing this process. Are there any photos out there?

A search of the gallery for "scraping" turns up 10 photos.

A search of the gallery for "scraping" turns up 10 photos.

So, looks like heavy equip comes in at low tide, skims off wave action beach deposits, and move that up more or less to dune line?