Public vs Private Beach [threads merged]

This will be an extremely important meeting. While no decisions will be made, this is everyone's opportunity to learn the current issues about beach access and customary use and to speak to the county commissioners on the topic

Public Workshop and Live Stream on YouTube


You are hereby notified that the Walton County Board of County Commissioners will hold a Public Workshop on Wednesday, March 16, 2016 from 5:00 PM to 8:00 PM or soon thereafter. The meeting will be held at the Emerald Coast Middle School located at 4019 US HWY 98, Santa Rosa Beach, FL.


The purpose of this meeting is to discuss public access to the beach.



As this meeting will not be held in a Walton County Board Room, Walton County will be live streaming the workshop on YouTube.



The stream should be available approximately 5 minutes prior to the meeting.



The process for the public to access the live stream is as follows:



1. Open a web browser and navigate to www.youtube.com

2. In the YouTube search box, enter Walton County Stream, and press enter.

3. The top item in the search results is the correct link.

4. Click the link.

5. Once the stream is active, you will then see the live stream in progress, click on the live stream, and it will begin on your computer



The public should be aware that this is the County’s first attempt at live streaming via YouTube and there could be unforeseen issues.



The County will also be taping this meeting for future posting and to ensure that video is available in the event that the live stream experiences any issues.

This will be the season of "disruption" on the SoWal beaches. People who have made their reservations and are looking forward to their beach vacation have no idea the hassle they are likely to encounter. If the perception that SoWal beaches are just one big hassle tourists will start not coming back. This means revenues across the board will, eventually, go down.

The TDC needs to step up and make official statements supporting beach access and beach use for ALL. TDC needs to pick a side here. They have done their part to get the folks here; they need to ensure that what the folks come here for (the beaches) are actually available, without a hassle.

This will be the season of "disruption" on the SoWal beaches. People who have made their reservations and are looking forward to their beach vacation have no idea the hassle they are likely to encounter. If the perception that SoWal beaches are just one big hassle tourists will start not coming back. This means revenues across the board will, eventually, go down.

The TDC needs to step up and make official statements supporting beach access and beach use for ALL. TDC needs to pick a side here. They have done their part to get the folks here; they need to ensure that what the folks come here for (the beaches) are actually available, without a hassle.

The TDC is nothing but a marketing firm. Education is not in their vocabulary.

I'm all for TDC taking a stand, as long as their stand also encourages RESPECTING people's private property.

While they are at it with education on beach access, how about some education on parking?

Why does every member of a party of 12 need to each bring their own vehicle, while most places don't have ample parking?

Please do not forget about the workshop tonight! It is from 5 to 8 at Emerald Coast Middle School. Attached is a link to my interview on channel 7 news last night -

I don't know if the link made it above so here it is again - sorry if it's a repeat.

Sounds like the Commissioners are going to give a serious look at a customary use ordinance. It will be interesting to see how broad they try to go with what is "ancient" and "uninterrupted". I hope people remember that customary use won't just be for residents. Be careful what you ask for. Sometimes you get it and it wasn't really what you wanted at all.

"Residents" are a minor portion of the "population" of South Walton County. I don't know the exact figures, but it certainly feels like the amount of people is approximately ten times more people in July than February. If the county can craft an ordinance that defines the customary use portion of the beach as, perhaps, "half the distance from mean high tide line to primary dune line, or first seaward structure", then it would seem to be a workable plan, if our visitors can be educated to comply with this.

I just came up with this formula, and would certainly want to hear other ideas.

I attended the meeting last night and even saw BMB's own Mr Huck observing the meeting and tapping away on his phone - attendance was stacked in locals favor but I can't help but feel, if our Sheriff enforced the laws while patrolling the beach instead of looking the other way when tourists are involved, we might be in the situation we are in..

Are you advocating that all beach goers, whether visitors or residents, be barred from transversing any privately owned beach front regardless of whether they are on "wet sand"? I can't picture any way this would be lawful nor enforceable.

From reading this thread and others on this board, is it correct that a majority of beachfront property owners desire to prohibit people from sitting on any dry part of the beach in front of their houses? And, if so, is this desire the result of masses of people having done so for so long that the beachfront property owner is then "crowded out" from the beach in front of his house because there is no room for his chair?

If we rent a house for a week's vacation each year that is not on the beach but close to beach access but far from a state park, should we expect to only be able to sit on wet sand or have to walk miles to a state park (or worse get in the car) in order to relax? LVT's idea above, or something similar, seems to be a good solution.

Are you advocating that all beach goers, whether visitors or residents, be barred from transversing any privately owned beach front regardless of whether they are on "wet sand"? I can't picture any way this would be lawful nor enforceable.

LVT, What I am implying right or wrong is that many of the beachfront property owners have people trample on their property, leave trash near the property and simply put "Not respecting other peoples property". You and I both know the areas near the Eastern Lake outflow to the west where kids jump on the dune areas that are near owners homes are a prime example. and lets face it, The only people who get enjoy looking at a "Keep Out" or Private Property" sign are the ones that erect them. All I am saying is that for those owners that live gulf front and have people not respecting their own property by leaving trash, being obnoxious / disrespectful or otherwise should expect a law enforcement officer to enforce the law if called. Customary Use seems logical to me and many other people

I can certainly see if SoWal is dealing with the kind of stuff on this video (from the Whale's Tail) how property owners would be incensed having to clean up after these thoughtless people. Is this happening in SoWal? Or the fear that it will?
I can only speak for my family and hope most are like it but when we leave the beach for the day we strive to leave no trace. I hope folks like us are not shut out from enjoying the beach.

LVT, What I am implying right or wrong is that many of the beachfront property owners have people trample on their property, leave trash near the property and simply put "Not respecting other peoples property". You and I both know the areas near the Eastern Lake outflow to the west where kids jump on the dune areas that are near owners homes are a prime example. and lets face it, The only people who get enjoy looking at a "Keep Out" or Private Property" sign are the ones that erect them. All I am saying is that for those owners that live gulf front and have people not respecting their own property by leaving trash, being obnoxious / disrespectful or otherwise should expect a law enforcement officer to enforce the law if called. Customary Use seems logical to me and many other people

OK. I think we are on the same page. I think an ordinance has to be established to define a reasonable sized area of customary use. And I'm with you 100% with more enforcement against visitors that abuse property not in the customary use zone, as well as beach front owners who abuse the customary use zone with unwarranted signs. All this sounds like common sense, doesn't it?

I am grateful for the clarification by JHF and agree. Just hope that the few bad kids don't ruin it for the rest of the class. Would miss Seagrove so (would otherwise need to win the lottery to afford a beachfront rental!).

To clarify my thoughts on the size of this customary use zone, you wouldn't need to define it by mean high tide. Just describe it as halfway from the gulf to any substantial residential structure, and any visitor or any deputy can easily assess what is halfway. I believe in making compromises for the sake of all people involved.

"Residents" are a minor portion of the "population" of South Walton County. I don't know the exact figures, but it certainly feels like the amount of people is approximately ten times more people in July than February. If the county can craft an ordinance that defines the customary use portion of the beach as, perhaps, "half the distance from mean high tide line to primary dune line, or first seaward structure", then it would seem to be a workable plan, if our visitors can be educated to comply with this.

I just came up with this formula, and would certainly want to hear other ideas.

True enough, but most of the people concerned about access and use seemed to be residents. Did you get a different impression? If they were residents, do you think they are worried about their own use or tourists being able to use the beach?

I think they are concerned about both, about conflict and signage, and restrictions of any kind, to the customary use of the beach. Everyone should stop thinking about opposing factions and try to find compromise.

So glad I live in Old BMB, owners own ALL (3) access points( state of Florida approved not TDC)..they put those silly PVC vendor only signs between two of our accesses pointing toward each other over 800' of beach. They came back in a few days and removed ALL signage TDC/ code enforcement have NO sign authority own our neighborhood beaches. FYI we have a few lots left to build on just sayin.

After catching up on all the new posts after the meeting, I can't help but see that "word" being used again; ENFORCEMENT.

If our elected sheriff would have been doing his job (enforcement of rules / laws on beach) back in his fist term, we would not have anywhere close to the beach issues we have now.

It took law suits to get to the bottom of the illegal wedding house. Money spent on noise meters with zero training for officers and now you never see a noise meters, where'd they go? Dogs and glass on beach, oh that's code enforcement's job...just look at there annual report to see how good a job they do...pathetic.

The blaintant lack of enforcement towards visitors has gotten us to this new argument of Customary Use. That plus the failure of renourishment is what brought us to this.

Now, some people feel the right to act out on there envy of those that own beach front property and seek to take it from them. Disgusting.

Isn't customary use what got people putting out signs and fences in the first place? For the logic "I've had a no trespassing sign on my beachfront for 18 months so that means no one can trespass".

@John G I would prefer not having more cops on the beach. Thank you very much. And wedding disruptions should be discouraged and prevented in the first place, not by trying to shut them down by Barney Fife with a gadget. Instead of spending millions to invite people here to abuse us we should be spending it on education about what is allowed and what is not allowed. How to act when you are here. How to treat our environment and locals with respect. Let's put our foot down. Time to stop letting all the spoiled rich treat SoWal like their exclusive playground.

Yes, customary use is what caused the signs and fences. Unless some sort of guidelines are established that law enforcement can enforce uniformly, I see nothing but a vast wasteland of lawsuits stretching out for decades.

To me, I would like to see some deputy presence on the beach, telling people to stay off the dunes, and pick up their trash, and then, have the deputies pulling up the signs and posts that stretch thru the "half" of the beach that shall remain customary use.

Unfortunately, they won't be pulling up signs. It's the WCSO's new SOP for beach tresspassing that calls for these signs. Look at section VII, A5.

Just saw a post on Facebook touting a new condo in Seagrove with 335ft. of "PRIVATE BEACH"...the blame should be put right were it all starts.. with the developers,realtors, and PR firms advertising our beaches like this in order to make a mere $48 million off of a 2 (maybe 3) acre site...complete with 31 units. With sites like this saying that the beach is private its no wonder we have people thinking it is private. I think if some of them got sued for false advertising they would stop selling/telling people the whole "PRIVATE" thing

So glad I live in Old BMB, owners own ALL (3) access points( state of Florida approved not TDC)..they put those silly PVC vendor only signs between two of our accesses pointing toward each other over 800' of beach. They came back in a few days and removed ALL signage TDC/ code enforcement have NO sign authority own our neighborhood beaches. FYI we have a few lots left to build on just sayin.

Help me out here. Can you clarify what you mean when you say, "...owners own ALL (3) access points( state of Florida approved not TDC)..." ? I always thought the developer deeded the accesses to the county and therefore the county is responsible for maintaining these accesses. By the way, "you" have some really beautiful walkovers (Trex material from the street to beach, nice handrails, public parking spaces, etc.) - not typical for an association funded walkover.