Why we should Care?

Thanks for the educational material here. This is very informative, have you sent this to the BCC?

Bobby, I took time to read this article. What "new" points are you trying to make by referencing it? Perhaps the question should be... what solutions to our predicament in Walton County are you suggesting we should attempt? We both already know that there is no easy answer to that question.

I believe most everyone is basically burned out on the basic retaining wall issues and all the associated science, legalities and politics. As some of you already know, I certainly am. It doesn't mean that I don't still try to read up on new information that people have to share.

As you are apparently an avid local surfer, I can certainly understand your love for the water and the area.

The fact (based on your bio) that you're in the real estate business does lead me to ask you this question from a personal ethical point of view...


Would you accept the listing for a gulf front property that recently had a retaining wall built in front of it?


Thanks.

I diagree about burnout on this seawall issue. I think most people are truely fed up with several of the issues surrounding it. First being how can our County officials give temporary permits for the walls and tubes for private property protection and then allow, without oversite, them to be place on public property? Secondly how many thousands of private and public tax dollars are wasted on fighting for or against these structures that now reside on public lands? Thirdly, when the next big storm comes who's going to pay for the cleanup when tubes and walls are ripped apart by the sea? I guess the taxpayers due to the fact they are now on public lands! Who's to pay for maintaining them if they're allowed to stay? Wood even pressure treated will still rot out due to sun, wind, rain and sea exposure? As for the Tubes I think the same will happen too.
I don't believe it's fair for tax dollars to support private interests! Many of these houses were built to close to gulf to begin with. Many just steps away from a bluff that obviously was shaped by that large body of water outside their backdoors. No amount of amoring will protect any structure from a storm surge of 30 ft. with 15 ft. wave on top of it. It will undoubtable create havoc when it hits. The levees in N.O. are a prime example of man's failure to understands natural forces! Or is that just G.W.'s Fault? Proper setbacks are what's needed not walls and tubes. If most of these were on private property fine but they are not. And I object strongly to the misuse of our tax money that's wasted debating,studying and permitting such structures that are interest of private landowners not the public.
And I'm sure these's no shortage of agents to sell these properties here. Just be sure to disclose it. But heck, it's on public property so maintenence is not due to the homeowner right?

Bobby, I took time to read this article. What "new" points are you trying to make by referencing it? Perhaps the question should be... what solutions to our predicament in Walton County are you suggesting we should attempt? We both already know that there is no easy answer to that question.

I believe most everyone is basically burned out on the basic retaining wall issues and all the associated science, legalities and politics. As some of you already know, I certainly am. It doesn't mean that I don't still try to read up on new information that people have to share.

As you are apparently an avid local surfer, I can certainly understand your love for the water and the area.

The fact (based on your bio) that you're in the real estate business does lead me to ask you this question from a personal ethical point of view...


Would you accept the listing for a gulf front property that recently had a retaining wall built in front of it?


Thanks.

Good question. Sorry to hear you are burned out on the Sea wall issue. It is a difficult problem with no clear solution. So I tend to lean toward the only truth I have ever heard on the issue. Retreat. Not a popular solution to our predicament but probably the only one. I do not have an answer for how we could get to that point but I do know that all other solutions are just wasting more money and delaying the inevitable. I have compassion for the beachfront owner but my gut tells me if there was not soooo much money involved all the sea wall owners know the truth. Walls are bad for beaches...

To answer your question, it depends. Disclosure would be real important here. More importanly, I would need to have a relationship with the seller and feel comfortable with the situation. The buyer would have to know what they were getting into. BTW, I have gulf front listings but they have no Sea Walls.

I have no problem turning away a listing especially one that is not disclosing truths.

Good question. Sorry to hear you are burned out on the Sea wall issue.

Thanks.

It is a difficult problem with no clear solution.

Agreed.

So I tend to lean toward the only truth I have ever heard on the issue. Retreat. Not a popular solution to our predicament but probably the only one. I do not have an answer for how we could get to that point but I do know that all other solutions are just wasting more money and delaying the inevitable. I have compassion for the beachfront owner but my gut tells me if there was not soooo much money involved all the sea wall owners know the truth. Walls are bad for beaches...

I believe in this "concept". However implementation is the killer.

Retreat possiblities...
1. Owner electively moves their home back. This is only possible if there's enough room their lot. Perhaps financial aid to accomplish this could be a catalyst to facilitate the relocation / rebuilding.
2. As mentioned several times in past threads, gulf front property could be purchased and placed in the public domain. At approximately $60,000 per linear gulf front foot, it would "only" cost about 6 billion dollars for 20 miles. Can I come work for you and help broker that deal?;-)

To answer your question, it depends. Disclosure would be real important here. More importanly, I would need to have a relationship with the seller and feel comfortable with the situation. The buyer would have to know what they were getting into. BTW, I have gulf front listings but they have no Sea Walls.

I have no problem turning away a listing especially one that is not disclosing truths.

I don't believe anyone trying to sell gulf front property will be trying to hide the truth regarding their retaining wall (unless it was built by a "particular government official" :funn: ). It is more than apparent to me, that everyone is NOW aware of the risks of owning gulf front property in our area, if they weren't before. In my opinion (and at the moment), having a retaining wall is an asset to anyone looking to purchase gulf front property. I know and FULLY UNDERSTAND that this is not a popular idea with many.

With that said, and PLEASE don't take offense, it would appear that a real estate agent / broker involved in the sale of a gulf front property with a retaining wall, who benefits from commission, is also part of the picture... past and present.

In other words, just because it's legal to sell such property doesn't make it right (or does it?) from an ecological point of view? Just because it is legal for me to build a retaining wall in front of my property doesn't mean it was necessarily the best long term solution, ecologically. I admit that. BUT it was my only choice considering the situation as it is TODAY (as I've stated many times in the past).

Bobby, I'm really not directing all this at you, in particular. Every issue, such as this, has many facets.

The county is part of the problem for approving gulf front development too close to the water way back when. Also the county benefited by levying and accepting property taxes, short term rental sales tax, etc. TDC, a county agency, also benefits from from short term rental sales tax. By the way, part of the sand renourishment is funded with these funds.

The state is part of the problem for allowing the county to approve such development. Yet the state has benefited from all the short term rental sales tax of these properties for all these years. The state also benefits from the deed transfer tax (or whatever it's called) which is proportional to the "value" of the property.

The federal government is also part of the problem for allowing the state to allow the county to approve such development.

Etc., etc., etc.

This doesn't begin to take into account all the economic trickle down benefits to the county, state and federal tax coffers that were "started" by those who built on the gulf long before anyone really understood the problems that would occur 50 years later regarding erosion. We all understood wind and waves, but not erosion. Building codes changed to resist wind and water damage...erosion was another thing.



Let's not cast all blame on those who happen to own gulf front property at the moment. You, being in real estate, fully understand the concept of disclosure. Yet when I bought in a few years ago, I was totally unaware of the potential erosion issue that we face today. Nobody "disclosed these truths" to me.

Many say, "That's a risk you took when you purchased." Perhaps. But I'm not asking the government to pay for my retaining wall and lost property (sand) although their hands are not clean regarding the current situation. I can only do what's within my power to protect my property after the fact.

The music in the game of "beach erosion muscial chairs" stopped when Hurricane Dennis hit. I just happened to be the one who owned our unit at that time. I'm the one who has to scramble.

BMBV, i think those who are tired of the subject are those with the potential to lose the most, the property owners. those who will not tire are those who think the wrong is greater than dollar amounts. a painful reality for some.

your following statement:
Yet when I bought in a few years ago, I was totally unaware of the potential erosion issue that we face today. Nobody "disclosed these truths" to me.

i find this hard to swallow. you are too smart to not have researched everything and anything about your property. also, as i have stated before, anyone who buys on the beach cannot be ignorant enough to not realize they are building on a moving medium, and indeed are taking a gamble. the 'nobody told me' argument literally doesn't hold water.

jr

BMBV I have seen your educated and great responses on this issue for the past 6 months or so and commend you for your input, but this issue is one that we can not get tired of. Maybe that was the intent of the County Official that built the walls in the first place, build them, hide from the fight, and wait long enough for everyone to tire out and let it die.

The people of this community can and will not allow this to happen. While I feel for you and other beach front owners, the fact remains all of you know what you are living on, an eroding shoreline that has a backyard that is not owned by you. The seawalls are a detriment to this area and the facts are positive to this. The BCC, the State, and the Feds all should be ashamed for allowing this but the beach front owners who claim they did not know they were doing anything wrong should be the real ones ashamed.

My question to you is, Who is going to pick up all the wood with nails and other hazards that are on our beaches today? Last year it was a group of surfers that went up and down the beaches and in and out of the water picking up the objects, were any home owners doing the same?

BMBV, i think those who are tired of the subject are those with the potential to lose the most, the property owners. those who will not tire are those who think the wrong is greater than dollar amounts. a painful reality for some.

Perhaps.

I guess I should have been referring only to myself instead of "most everyone" concerning burnout. My bad. But it was just a deduction based on the myriad of posts and associated responses on the myriad of threads regarding retaining walls, seawalls, geotubes, dark sand, etc. After a while, it got old and it got repetitive. If you haven't noticed, many of these once very active threads are pretty much dead.

I am NOT discounting the subject's importance nor am I attaching "dollar amounts" as a qualifier.

your following statement:
Yet when I bought in a few years ago, I was totally unaware of the erosion issue that we would face today as a result of such a relatively small hurricane called Dennis. Nobody "disclosed these truths" to me.

i find this hard to swallow.

John, here's what I did know at the time I bought our property. There are hurricanes. There was OPAL. There was ANDREW. I knew there was a distinct possibility of being blown down due to a hurricane. I paid for insurance to cover that risk. I allocated funds for the deductible. The wind risk was therefore addressed.

The other well known risk is flood. Since our property is over 26 feet in elevation, I felt that we were fairly well protected from storm surge. I did some homework on storm surge elevations and additional wave heights. After we bought, I even considered dropping flood coverage because of the elevation. It was only after I was told that if our property was undermined, that only flood insurance would cover that. Of course, I elected to maintain flood coverage. I figured it would take at least 3 Ivans to truly threaten us from an erosion point (Ivan only eroded 1 to 2 feet past Opal). Dennis took out another 20 to 25 feet past that!

Back in 2002, I wasn't even aware that a retaining wall was a legal possibility (assumed we would just build back at some point in time). In 2004/2005, after Ivan, we were told we would qualify to protect our structure via retaining wall and retained an engineer to design one. I admit I had my ecological and aesthetic hesitations. Everyone else was for it. But I voted for it in the end. It was going to be installed at the end of 2005. The design and application was already turned in to DEP. Again all this was BEFORE Dennis hit.

Hurricane Dennis (summer of 2005) obviously resulted in not just us needing a wall, but many properties up and down the beach including our immediate neighbors as well.


MY POINT: No, I personally was not fully aware of what was in store. But didn't I say that already? Again, nobody was. If all of us gulf front owners were aware, as you imply, you would have seen a lot more for sale signs after Hurrincane Ivan hit us but before Hurricane Dennis had a chance to wreak havoc on our beach. We all saw what Ivan did so we "thought" we had some idea of the situation. Remember, just about anything would have sold at top price before Dennis, pure and simple.


Everything is crystal clear when you have hindsight (regarding the erosion). I truly thought it first would be some monster hurricane wind or some huge wave that would destroy us and force us to rebuild because we were close to the water... but certainly not erosion.



Remember, Bobby J started the thread with a reference to a retaining wall article. Then I gave my "burned out" response since I felt retaining walls were discussed every which way but loose. That's when I decided to ask him the real estate "ethics" question. He responds back he would consider a gulf front sale with a retaining wall (more or less) assuming "The buyer would have to know what they were getting into." Then I said (more or less) that I wasn't afforded that opportunity. Then you (more or less) insinuate that I'm not being straight and that I should have known.

you are too smart to not have researched everything and anything about your property.

You're giving me way too much credit.;-) I just hope you're not punishing me for it.

also, as i have stated before, anyone who buys on the beach cannot be ignorant enough to not realize they are building on a moving medium, and indeed are taking a gamble. the 'nobody told me' argument literally doesn't hold water.

jr

You're right (in hindsight and with the knowledge at hand). JR, as much as it pains me to say this, there are many people a lot more intelligent than me;-) . They also own gulf front. They didn't sell when they could have received top dollar for their property in 2005. Also, like me, they bought in to begin with, not fully expecting today's events.

If we all knew everything, disclosures would not be needed. That was my point with my response to Bobby J since he sells real estate. He was the one bringing up the idea of the importance of "disclosure" to a perspective buyer. I was simply building on that idea. Many times disclosures reveal things that are obvious with a simple inspection. Sometimes they reveal things not so obvious such as easement litigation. Sometimes they don't reveal things that maybe they should. Radon gas and mold are 2 prime examples of "disclosure evolution" that were not really considered years back. By the way, I won't be suing the previous owner and real estate agent / broker for non-disclosure because it was my fault for being "ignorant enough"! ;-) . Enough about disclosure.

If I had sold back in 2005 after Ivan, then you would be having this dialogue with the new owner instead of me. If I never bought to begin with, you would be having this dialogue with the previous owner.....

Which brings me to this question: You never really addressed the heart of my previous post...that is do you feel that the county, state and feds should bare any of the responsibility for allowing these structures to have been built so close in the first place and benefitting from the tax base?

I diagree about burnout on this seawall issue. I think most people are truely fed up with several of the issues surrounding it. First being how can our County officials give temporary permits for the walls and tubes for private property protection and then allow, without oversite, them to be place on public property? Secondly how many thousands of private and public tax dollars are wasted on fighting for or against these structures that now reside on public lands? Thirdly, when the next big storm comes who's going to pay for the cleanup when tubes and walls are ripped apart by the sea? I guess the taxpayers due to the fact they are now on public lands! Who's to pay for maintaining them if they're allowed to stay? Wood even pressure treated will still rot out due to sun, wind, rain and sea exposure? As for the Tubes I think the same will happen too.
I don't believe it's fair for tax dollars to support private interests! Many of these houses were built to close to gulf to begin with. Many just steps away from a bluff that obviously was shaped by that large body of water outside their backdoors. No amount of amoring will protect any structure from a storm surge of 30 ft. with 15 ft. wave on top of it. It will undoubtable create havoc when it hits. The levees in N.O. are a prime example of man's failure to understands natural forces! Or is that just G.W.'s Fault? Proper setbacks are what's needed not walls and tubes. If most of these were on private property fine but they are not. And I object strongly to the misuse of our tax money that's wasted debating,studying and permitting such structures that are interest of private landowners not the public.
And I'm sure these's no shortage of agents to sell these properties here. Just be sure to disclose it. But heck, it's on public property so maintenence is not due to the homeowner right?

Most of your points have already been discussed in other threads. Admittedly I peeked and didn't see your name in the lively "Seawalls" thread below (take a look if you haven't already)...

Seawalls
[ame="http://www.sowal.com/bb/showthread.php?t=2152"]Seawalls - SoWal Beaches Forum[/ame]

There are more:

Allow private seawall on a public beach?
[ame="http://www.sowal.com/bb/showthread.php?t=4854"]Allow private seawall on a public beach? - SoWal Beaches Forum[/ame]

SEAWALLS - Audio/Photo Presentation (biased "journalism")
[ame="http://www.sowal.com/bb/showthread.php?t=4607"]SEAWALLS - Audio/Photo Presentation - SoWal Beaches Forum[/ame]

Study on Geotubes in Texas
[ame="http://www.sowal.com/bb/showthread.php?t=4479"]Study on Geotubes in Texas - SoWal Beaches Forum[/ame]

Seawalls, Geo-tubes, Beach Scraping and Beach Nourishment. What is the answer?
[ame="http://www.sowal.com/bb/showthread.php?t=2083"]Seawalls, Geo-tubes, Beach Scraping and Beach Nourishment. What is the answer? - SoWal Beaches Forum[/ame]

Geotube installation - Santa Rosa Beach
[ame="http://www.sowal.com/bb/showthread.php?t=2066"]Geotube installation - Santa Rosa Beach - SoWal Beaches Forum[/ame]

Re: beach restoration update
[ame="http://www.sowal.com/bb/showthread.php?t=2518"]beach restoration update - SoWal Beaches Forum[/ame]



Assuming you're addressing me...let me set the record straight.

I don't have a personal interest in the walls built on public property. That takes care of your points 1 and 2 if they were directed to me. I am not envious of the property owners nor the county commissioners regarding this situation.

Your 3rd point... I don't deny there will be wall failures out there. I don't deny there will be debris when it happens. I personally have done all I can to prevent this from happening with our wall. If you're worried about debris from wall failures, can you imagine what a mess there will be if entire condo complexes and homes are washed into the gulf? Just a thought.

Tax dollars... No tax dollars have supported our wall or sand, period. I agree owners should take full responsibility for cleaning and debris from failed walls and for any maintenance required.

You state "No amount of amoring will protect any structure from a storm surge of 30 ft. with 15 ft. wave on top of it." I'll grant you that, IF it were to happen. That's not what we're defending against. By the way, do you know what the highest storm surge in recorded history is for South Walton?

Here's some similar logic... no building code will protect a structure from an F5 tornado.

Regarding "G.W." and "no shortage of agents to sell these properties here" and New Orleans, perhaps you should start other threads.


I "feeeel" the fire in your post. If it makes you feel better, go for it. I do understand where you're coming from. Heck, I got hot several times and it felt good to get it out.

Hopefully you can try to understand where I and many others (although not vocal here on SoWal) are coming from.

BMBV I have seen your educated and great responses on this issue for the past 6 months or so and commend you for your input, but this issue is one that we can not get tired of.

Thanks.

Again, I should have been speaking for myself as I stated in a previous post.

Maybe that was the intent of the County Official that built the walls in the first place, build them, hide from the fight, and wait long enough for everyone to tire out and let it die.

OK, I'm a bit confused here. Regarding walls on public property (another thread BTW) I thought they were talking about the homes on the west end of Montgomery Street with GeoTubes. The "County Official" that you refer to, doesn't install these (as far as I know). However there may be more wood walls on public property where he did. I'm not sure.

The people of this community can and will not allow this to happen.

Are you talking about building walls on public property or walls in general? I assume it's about building private walls on public beaches.

While I feel for you and other beach front owners, the fact remains all of you know what you are living on, an eroding shoreline that has a backyard that is not owned by you. The seawalls are a detriment to this area and the facts are positive to this.

This has already been discussed at length and is obviously not a simple situation. It won't be resolved here.

By the way, the "backyard" that you refer to IS legally owned by our association as is all the properties in our general area. This is in contrast to the situation on Montgomery Street. Technically and legally speaking (from what I understand and please correct me if I'm wrong), Blue Mountain Beach is private for the most part. But that's a whole different issue. I'm sure someone's hair is standing straight up on their neck right now.

Food for Thought: If the general public treats the gulf front owners located at Montgomery Street with such disdain, would it be unreasonable for other gulf front property owners who own to the waterline to treat the general public the same way when the public uses "their property"?

I'm not looking for an answer, PLEASE. Just think about it. I know this will only generate a heated debate where nobody wins. Life is about compromise (so is marriage but I'm still working on that part😀 ).

The BCC, the State, and the Feds all should be ashamed for allowing this but the beach front owners who claim they did not know they were doing anything wrong should be the real ones ashamed.

Again I think you're referring to the Montgomery Street situation. When I first heard about this, I questioned the thread starter (a few months ago)about how far they were past their property lines. I didn't hear back. I assumed (and hoped) it was just a foot or two...an understandable mistake. But it seems to be much worse than that.

Now that I think about it, I remember making a comment on one of the old threads regarding GeoTubes (which I believe were used here). That is, the higher you have to stack the tubes, the further out on the beach one has to go with the base (pyramid effect). GeoTubes are a "feel good" solution because it's made from fabric and sand and therefore gves the appearance that it does not "intrude" upon the beach system as much as traditional sheet pile.

This might explain why they had to go so far out into the beach. Again, in my opinion, they should have gone with a sheet type of retaining wall which results in minimal disruption beyond the wall (besides possible increased erosion which is everyone's concern including mine).

This from an engineering report from PBS&J for Florida DEP (I posted this way back when)....
"Qualitative evidence confirms the company/product claim that the ProTecTube III system is not designed to protect against hurricanes and did not abate erosion caused by Hurricane Ivan. An aerial photograph from the FDEP shows a similar erosional pattern of the adjacent, un-protected beaches"

BTW, these homes have been here since the 1950s (I believe). I won't sit and judge their "survival" situation from the luxury of my comfortable office chair. I've got my own situation to deal with.

I'd take your concern for this public property issue to the following threads...
[ame="http://www.sowal.com/bb/showthread.php?t=8456"]Seawalls Built on Public Beach - SoWal Beaches Forum[/ame]
[ame="http://www.sowal.com/bb/showthread.php?t=8568"]Seawall Decision in Today's Paper - SoWal Beaches Forum[/ame]

My question to you is, Who is going to pick up all the wood with nails and other hazards that are on our beaches today? Last year it was a group of surfers that went up and down the beaches and in and out of the water picking up the objects, were any home owners doing the same?

Are you referring to some walkovers that were damaged by the storm the past week when you say "today"? I'm not sure what you're really asking here. The county did most of the cleaning last year.

Thanks to all the surfers for helping out, sincerely. Rememeber they were probably pulling out all kinds of stuff... private walkovers, retaining walls and PUBLIC walkovers. Did you happen to see any county commissioners swimming in and out picking up all that TREX used in public walkovers? ;-) By the way, does TREX float?

And, yes, I have picked up trash in front of our property. Next time, I'll bring my snorkel gear.😀 Heck, since I heard some of the neighbors' walkovers were damaged this past week and sitting next to our property, I may have to pick up crap on my next visit!

Luckily, Aaron Lewis, of Construction and Such did a fantastic job of installing our walkover this year. All the forward posts were installed several feet down. No damage this time. He definitely earned this plug. Sorry, I digress.

BMVB,

You bring up alot of good points. Some I agree and some I do not. I will read over this again and respond at a later date. Surfed hard today and so tired! I was in the water at Blue Mountain from 8am to 3pm....

I sure hate to see all that construction debris out there. Yes TREX floats...

BMVB, You win the award for most words per post, but the verbosity is due to your argument being one you cannot defend.

BMVB, You win the award for most words per post, but the verbosity is due to your argument being one you cannot defend.

OK
:roll:

BMBV, like Bobby, I'd like a little time to respond to your post. I'm in the middle of a move and can't give a response the time or thought it deserves. A quick note, yes, as you pointed out in a post above, there have been many threads on the subject, and it is work keeping up. It would be nice if they could be merged, or sorted into walls, dunes, and tubes categories(although tubes and dunes cross paths a lot)

jr

I guess I've been told were to go:clap_1: BMBV. Since I don't own beachfront nor sell it I guess I should thread elsewhere.

It IS an interesting topic even for some of us not directly involved, as it speaks to learning from the past and designing better for the future along our coasts.

In short, keep up the dialogue, even if it's challenging at times, as many can benefit from the education. The good Lord ain't makin' no more beachfront in Florida...

...
Let's not cast all blame on those who happen to own gulf front property at the moment. You, being in real estate, fully understand the concept of disclosure. Yet when I bought in a few years ago, I was totally unaware of the potential erosion issue that we face today. Nobody "disclosed these truths" to me.

Many say, "That's a risk you took when you purchased." Perhaps. But I'm not asking the government to pay for my retaining wall and lost property (sand) although their hands are not clean regarding the current situation. I can only do what's within my power to protect my property after the fact.

The obvious facts do not need to be disclosed. ;-) This is no different than buying river front or mountain top property.

I guess I've been told were to go:clap_1: BMBV. Since I don't own beachfront nor sell it I guess I should thread elsewhere.

What the heck do you mean by "Since I don't own beachfront nor sell it I guess I should thread elsewhere."?

I think you misunderstood me.

Please don't leave. I thought we were having fun!;-)

First I listed the other related threads in my response to you in order to give you an indication that this subject has been discussed quite throuroughly because it appeared from your post that maybe you weren't aware of all the previous threads or posts. Many people spent much time entering their thoughts, observations, pictures, facts and prejudices. That's why I checked to see if your name appeared on the Seawalls thread... nothing more...nothing less. I guess there's no harm being repetitive if you want to reopen the debate from the beginning.

Second, regarding my suggestion to start other threads, it appeared you were throwing out all kinds of other stuff that deserved it's own thread such as "G.W." (I assume you mean our President), "N.O." and "no shortage of agents".

I'm not a bad guy - just one that that won't succomb to "popular opinion".

I took the time to genuinely respond to your "post" piece by piece.

The first line in your first post....
"I disagree about burnout on this seawall issue."

Now please show everyone you really mean this by sharing with us more than a one line reply.

It IS an interesting topic even for some of us not directly involved, as it speaks to learning from the past and designing better for the future along our coasts.

In short, keep up the dialogue, even if it's challenging at times, as many can benefit from the education. The good Lord ain't makin' no more beachfront in Florida...

I sincerely believe ALL of "us" have seen the errors of "our" ways regarding coastal development. If it were 1950 and we knew what we know now, I'm sure that things on the coast would be developed differently. But today is today and we're all dealing with past mistakes... not just here in South Walton but just about every coastline in America.

I'm not sure how much education can be derived from these threads but as I told BeachSteelers, sometimes it just feels good to share thoughts.

I remember someone telling me that I should spend more time in the "Lounge" here - more fun I guess.
But if I did....
1. I'd be spending 25 hours per day on this damn computer. Yea, I know, if I shorten my posts and I'd reduce it to 24 hours per day :blush:
2. Everyone from the lounge would flee because I'm so contrarily opinionated 😀