- 30 additional citizens spoke in favor of CU.
- 10 citizens spoke against CU
- ✔️Multiple beach front property owners said that they don’t have issues with members of the public being on the beach in front of their property and haven’t had problems with that over the years, but there are many issues with commercial beach chair vendors setting up on their property, so they don’t support Customary Use.
then the Mafia is in control :
Replies
38
Beach FanaticAuthor
then the Mafia is in control :
[/QUOTE
- 30 additional citizens spoke in favor of CU.
- 10 citizens spoke against CU
- ✔️Multiple beach front property owners said that they don’t have issues with members of the public being on the beach in front of their property and haven’t had problems with that over the years, but there are many issues with commercial beach chair vendors setting up on their property, so they don’t support Customary Use.
- Mr. Montague – He is a local resident who is an attorney. He encouraged the Board to explore whether substantial compliance is adequate and to do everything they can to ensure that the recording of the results of today’s meeting are admissible at the hearing in November. ✔️✔️He also spoke in favor of Customary Use and said property owners in his community who are selling their homes are losing prospective buyers because of this. This is having real economic impacts.
Beach FanaticAuthor
I know...what I heard was on some beaches vendors will set up any time any where they want..one owner said, “if he didn’t get up at 5:45 and get his space ( behind his own house) he would be blocked out”.....I would be be posting signs also...that’s not right..
Beach Lover
It amazes me that most of the beach property itself was quick claimed or quite title. From my understanding they have no warranty .which means the county should remove all non warrenty deeded property on the county web site. That would remove 90 percent of people who claim they own it.I think it's a shame to be fighting over beach property , that was claimed with out Merrit.viscaya beach is one of them.If you go to Walton tax map they show up all over beach front property. You can pay 3,500,000 million for land above beach but then only pay 100.00 for the beach that connects to it. The county should not allow any quick claims of the people's beach. And if that is what they think is right . they should be held accountable ,wonder how many would pay the extra 4 million to say they own the beach. Instead of a worthless quick claim of 100.00 with no real ownership.the other side is maybe the county is fine with selling the beach at 100 a shot.
Beach Fanatic
I know...what I heard was on some beaches vendors will set up any time any where they want..one owner said, “if he didn’t get up at 5:45 and get his space ( behind his own house) he would be blocked out”.....I would be be posting signs also...that’s not right..
Great catch there. Now..if we can get the non-beach front folks and their votes aligned with BFOs and their money to get these aggressive beach chair vendors off the beaches from Captain Dave's to Camp Helen we can make great strides to having a peaceful, pleasant day at the beach.
Beach Lover
Great facts Beach Days
We need the best attorneys on our side - it is clear Walton County is not up to this task.
They could have passed another customary use bill in the limited window but failed to do so.
The bill needs to be repealed - it makes us prove each parcel which Walton County is failing to do.
Otherwise - good by to millions of visitors and the supporting businesses.
We need the best attorneys on our side - it is clear Walton County is not up to this task.
They could have passed another customary use bill in the limited window but failed to do so.
The bill needs to be repealed - it makes us prove each parcel which Walton County is failing to do.
Otherwise - good by to millions of visitors and the supporting businesses.
Beach FanaticAuthor
Y’all remember Bay County said NO to CU. Strange that Walton County is one of only three counties in all of Florida having this fight!!!
Beach Lover
It amazes me that most of the beach property itself was quick claimed or quite title. From my understanding they have no warranty .which means the county should remove all non warrenty deeded property on the county web site. That would remove 90 percent of people who claim they own it.I think it's a shame to be fighting over beach property , that was claimed with out Merrit.viscaya beach is one of them.If you go to Walton tax map they show up all over beach front property. You can pay 3,500,000 million for land above beach but then only pay 100.00 for the beach that connects to it. The county should not allow any quick claims of the people's beach. And if that is what they think is right . they should be held accountable ,wonder how many would pay the extra 4 million to say they own the beach. Instead of a worthless quick claim of 100.00 with no real ownership.the other side is maybe the county is fine with selling the beach at 100 a shot.
It amazes you because it's simply not true. Do you honestly believe that "most" of the beach property was just whisked away from the county by some dark magic? You think 90% of the people out there do not have a legal deed to their beach property? It that were even remotely true then why is the county spending millions on a lawsuit to even get customary use? No real ownership? If that was really true at all, then all this would have been taken care of several years ago. The only reason the county is trying customary use on all this private property is that everything you just said simply is a fantasy to discredit private beach ownership.
SoWal Guide
Y’all remember Bay County said NO to CU. Strange that Walton County is one of only three counties in all of Florida having this fight!!!
Bay County, like many coastal towns, has different circumstances than Walton County. Appears they had leadership where we did not.
The Herald Jun2018...
But the law, set to go into effect Sunday, won't affect Bay County at all, and it did not change the rule of customary use, Majka said.
"If property was subject to customary use before the law, it is still subject to customary use after the law. The only change the law made was to recognize that courts, and not local governments, traditionally determine property rights, including the scope of customary use rights," he said.
Land formed from beach renourishment projects — almost all of Panama City Beach — is owned by the public and is accessible for public use, Majka said. A majority of the beach was obtained for beach renourishment through easements obtained in one sweep in 1997, just before the city's first major nourishment project in 1998.
Because those easements now are maintained by federal and local funds, the public owns the beach from the city right of way to the high water line, according to Panama City Beach public information officer Debbie Ward. And the county now has almost 100 public beach accesses, including at St. Andrews State Park, M.B. Miller Pier, Rick Seltzer Park and dozens of other locations.
Beach Fanatic
It amazes you because it's simply not true. Do you honestly believe that "most" of the beach property was just whisked away from the county by some dark magic? You think 90% of the people out there do not have a legal deed to their beach property? It that were even remotely true then why is the county spending millions on a lawsuit to even get customary use? No real ownership? If that was really true at all, then all this would have been taken care of several years ago. The only reason the county is trying customary use on all this private property is that everything you just said simply is a fantasy to discredit private beach ownership.It amazes me that anyone could try to claim they own the beach. It's a freakin nightmare to anyone who ever has enjoyed SoWal beaches before or now. Deplorable.
Beach Fanatic
Bay County, like many coastal towns, has different circumstances than Walton County. Appears they had leadership where we did not.Another incidence that shows the quiet amazing beauty and quaint under-devlopment and low population we have enjoyed for decades come back to bite us. Walton County spent years and millions planning beach re-nourishment and got stymied because they were too late.
The Herald Jun2018...
But the law, set to go into effect Sunday, won't affect Bay County at all, and it did not change the rule of customary use, Majka said.
"If property was subject to customary use before the law, it is still subject to customary use after the law. The only change the law made was to recognize that courts, and not local governments, traditionally determine property rights, including the scope of customary use rights," he said.
Land formed from beach renourishment projects — almost all of Panama City Beach — is owned by the public and is accessible for public use, Majka said. A majority of the beach was obtained for beach renourishment through easements obtained in one sweep in 1997, just before the city's first major nourishment project in 1998.
Because those easements now are maintained by federal and local funds, the public owns the beach from the city right of way to the high water line, according to Panama City Beach public information officer Debbie Ward. And the county now has almost 100 public beach accesses, including at St. Andrews State Park, M.B. Miller Pier, Rick Seltzer Park and dozens of other locations.
Look to the homeowners who opposed beach re-nourishment and you will see villains. Call them out for ruining Walton County beaches.
Look to the owners who are now opposing customary use. Call out the ones who won't allow vehicles to drive on the beach behind their house.
Beach Lover
Another incidence that shows the quiet amazing beauty and quaint under-devlopment and low population we have enjoyed for decades come back to bite us. Walton County spent years and millions planning beach re-nourishment and got stymied because they were too late.
Look to the homeowners who opposed beach re-nourishment and you will see villains. Call them out for ruining Walton County beaches.
Look to the owners who are now opposing customary use. Call out the ones who won't allow vehicles to drive on the beach behind their house.
Villains?
Beach Fanatic
Villains?Defined as anyone who would try to prevent someone from enjoying GODS beach.
Beach Lover
Boomerang, you got one thing right. Walton’s County Attorney isn’t up to the task. You and quite a few others who cry for the repeal of HB 631 fail to understand that it should save the county money by requiring them by statute to observe the requirements of federal and state law regarding customary use claims. These requirements preexisted this fight and will survive any fight over 631, irrespective of that outcome.
The principal reason the county has not lost in federal court is something with which you and many others may not be familiar, that being the concept of ripeness. Depending on the pleadings before it, a federal District Court will almost always wait until claims that could be resolved under state law have made their way through the entirety of the state judicial system. Once that final state court resolution is in hand, the case is then ready for federal court. Whatever justice may come to be by the hand of the court, it is certain to be justice delayed.
And justice delayed is very expensive justice, as Walton County taxpayers are only beginning to appreciate. HB 631 aims to prevent local procedural errors by the Sidney Noyes et al. of our world from creating even more delay and expense by avoidable errors and suits. Witness the witlessness of yesterday.
And you and others would do well to understand that with or without HB 631, the doctrine of CU absolutely requires proof of each parcel, independent of all others. Like it or not, that is an essential part of the legal construct called Common Law as applied to Customary Use, and 631 repeal will not alter that requirement.
I realize it’s easier to simply scream and holler about those evil, greedy rich people on the beach than it is to read and learn what the facts and law are, but we are supposed to be a nation of laws, not of the emotions of the moment, and we are ill-served by any government which ignores that postulate.
Walton County cannot sustain the millions of visitors it now enjoys (?), and both locals and visitors would be well served by the excess of visitors over capacity being corrected sooner than later. No environment has an infinite carrying capacity, and our little barrier island is not immune to that natural law.
It is possible, though inadvisable, to overturn 631, but absent the unlikely amendments to the U.S. Constitution necessary to achieve your goal of confiscation of private property rights irrespective of the law, enmity and discord will increase, and stupidly colossal amounts of tax dollars and private funds will be wasted on lawsuits.
If you believe a retired kindergarten teacher, a retired postal driver, a retired law enforcement guy with a checkered history, and good ole Sara possess and have demonstrated the requisite knowledge, judgment and skills to properly lead the ambitious colossus our county government has become, I have a bridge to sell you. Melanie has demonstrated knowledge, judgment and abilities to lead responsibly, and she is being joined by Danny G who shares those traits. It unfortunately appears that Trey N is but another of the parade of yes men brought to us by the developers and lawyers who really run the county.
Pardon me for believing that private property rights under the law are far more important to our country than increased profits for a few business owners, lawyers, and developers. Blind emotion is a veil failing to hide prejudice and envy, while also failing to make things better. 631 is not the problem. County leadership is.
The principal reason the county has not lost in federal court is something with which you and many others may not be familiar, that being the concept of ripeness. Depending on the pleadings before it, a federal District Court will almost always wait until claims that could be resolved under state law have made their way through the entirety of the state judicial system. Once that final state court resolution is in hand, the case is then ready for federal court. Whatever justice may come to be by the hand of the court, it is certain to be justice delayed.
And justice delayed is very expensive justice, as Walton County taxpayers are only beginning to appreciate. HB 631 aims to prevent local procedural errors by the Sidney Noyes et al. of our world from creating even more delay and expense by avoidable errors and suits. Witness the witlessness of yesterday.
And you and others would do well to understand that with or without HB 631, the doctrine of CU absolutely requires proof of each parcel, independent of all others. Like it or not, that is an essential part of the legal construct called Common Law as applied to Customary Use, and 631 repeal will not alter that requirement.
I realize it’s easier to simply scream and holler about those evil, greedy rich people on the beach than it is to read and learn what the facts and law are, but we are supposed to be a nation of laws, not of the emotions of the moment, and we are ill-served by any government which ignores that postulate.
Walton County cannot sustain the millions of visitors it now enjoys (?), and both locals and visitors would be well served by the excess of visitors over capacity being corrected sooner than later. No environment has an infinite carrying capacity, and our little barrier island is not immune to that natural law.
It is possible, though inadvisable, to overturn 631, but absent the unlikely amendments to the U.S. Constitution necessary to achieve your goal of confiscation of private property rights irrespective of the law, enmity and discord will increase, and stupidly colossal amounts of tax dollars and private funds will be wasted on lawsuits.
If you believe a retired kindergarten teacher, a retired postal driver, a retired law enforcement guy with a checkered history, and good ole Sara possess and have demonstrated the requisite knowledge, judgment and skills to properly lead the ambitious colossus our county government has become, I have a bridge to sell you. Melanie has demonstrated knowledge, judgment and abilities to lead responsibly, and she is being joined by Danny G who shares those traits. It unfortunately appears that Trey N is but another of the parade of yes men brought to us by the developers and lawyers who really run the county.
Pardon me for believing that private property rights under the law are far more important to our country than increased profits for a few business owners, lawyers, and developers. Blind emotion is a veil failing to hide prejudice and envy, while also failing to make things better. 631 is not the problem. County leadership is.
Beach Lover
Defined as anyone who would try to prevent someone from enjoying GODS beach.
Even God knows about property rights and needs vs. wants...
"And the younger of them said to his father, ‘Father, give me the share of property that is coming to me.’ And he divided his property between them. Not many days later, the younger son gathered all he had and took a journey into a far country, and there he squandered his property in reckless living. And when he had spent everything, a severe famine arose in that country, and he began to be in need. So he went and hired himself out to one of the citizens of that country, who sent him into his fields to feed pigs. And he was longing to be fed with the pods that the pigs ate, and no one gave him anything. ..." Luke 15:12-17
Shannon
Beach Lover
It amazes me that anyone could try to claim they own the beach. It's a freakin nightmare to anyone who ever has enjoyed SoWal beaches before or now. Deplorable.
It amazes me that you won't even acknowledge these beaches have been privately owned for a long, long time. And they have changed ownership hands many, many times over the last 100 years - thousands of times. It also amazes me that with a few exceptions, most of the beaches on the coasts of the United States is owned privately. And in the state of Florida 60% is privately owned.
Yet something that is so common, legal and has legally changed hands, been bought and sold thousands of times with the county's approval - you call "deplorable".
That's what's amazing. Actually, it's stunning.
Shannon
Beach Lover
It amazes me that you won't even acknowledge these beaches have been privately owned for a long, long time. And they have changed ownership hands many, many times over the last 100 years - thousands of times. It also amazes me that with a few exceptions, most of the beaches on the coasts of the United States is owned privately. And in the state of Florida 60% is privately owned.
Yet something that is so common, legal and has legally changed hands, been bought and sold thousands of times with the county's approval - you call "deplorable".
That's what's amazing. Actually, it's stunning.
Shannon
Jesus walked every beach in the world and no one but him can rule over them. Give up your selfish ways.
Beach Fanatic
Jesus walked every beach in the world and no one but him can rule over them. Give up your selfish ways.Unless you’re a Walton County commissioner.
Beach Lover
I agree - Walton County will not win because they are not trying to prove each parcel as required by 631 - and you have to admit yesterday was embarrassing. They can't even start the process correctly - and the affidavits don't prove each parcel.
I think we have to repeal 631 - and pass something that gives the homeowners rights to dunes and the rest of us rights to USE the dry sand to the water.
Venders should be banned. Bring your own stuff or don't come to our beaches.
And revoke all quiet titles.
I think we have to repeal 631 - and pass something that gives the homeowners rights to dunes and the rest of us rights to USE the dry sand to the water.
Venders should be banned. Bring your own stuff or don't come to our beaches.
And revoke all quiet titles.
SoWal Guide
Could we just leave Jesus and the Bible out of it? Jeeeez.
Beach Lover
Quite frankly the only way we will get our beaches back is with God's help.
don't put my faith in Walton County government to do it.
Downright sad and embarrassing yesterday.
don't put my faith in Walton County government to do it.
Downright sad and embarrassing yesterday.
SoWal Guide
Quite frankly the only way we will get our beaches back is with God's help.
don't put my faith in Walton County government to do it.
Downright sad and embarrassing yesterday.
We got this. Our community rocks. If we can't pull together and do the work necessary to shape the future of our own community then we get what we deserve. I have faith in the people. God gave us the ability to do this work for ourselves. So it's up to us.
And BTW, South Walton has no town or government. The Walton County BCC is it. And I am thankful that the BCC is fully committed to going through the legal process as stipulated in HB631. That is to reestablish and affirm Customary Use. That is what this is all about.
If not for the amazing people of this community, volunteers, notaries, community leaders and business owners, and the efforts of the new local group Florida Beaches For All, we would likely never be as far as we are now.. And efforts continue. While Rick Scott literally flees town today because our community ROCKS!
But prayers might help too. I just hate when people and politicians invoke God and the Bible for their purposes or goals.
As someone posted today...
It’s not about Party.
“It’s the economy, stupid.”
And the Beach is our economy.
And I would add its about our rights as human beings to visit the beaches of South Walton and around Florida as we've always done. Privatizing our beaches is wrong.
Edited
Beach Lover
not voting for Scott no matter what
He was in on it
bill originated from Naples where he owns beach front.
He was in on it
bill originated from Naples where he owns beach front.
Beach Lover
#241
Look at what vizcaya says they own. If they do . Then there should be a lot of explaining .remind you no warranty
Beach Lover
Look at what vizcaya says they own. If they do . Then there should be a lot of explaining .remind you no warranty
Whoever started throwing around the "warranty deed" vs. deed business ought to be read the riot act. The only difference in a warranty deed and a deed is that with a warranty deed the seller is "guaranteeing" a set of conditions to about the property to the buyer. All other classifications of "deeds" simply doesn't have that but are no less valid in Florida, records, court or anywhere else to transfer title. The lack of a warranty on a deed means that a grantee (the new owner) has no legal recourse against the grantor (the old owner) - it does not mean or suggest in any way that the title transfer is not legal or valid.
You are making up a fantasy world of legalities and illegalities which simply does not exist in the real world.
Shannon
Beach Lover
Look at what vizcaya says they own. If they do . Then there should be a lot of explaining .remind you no warranty
What about it? This matches the plat. They own it there's no dispute. There is a warranty deed in the chain of title from Walton Co to Dune Allen, the Quit Claim was only to go from Dune Allen to the HOA. You do understand how a chain of title works right? This isn't some dark magic that represents that particular Quit Claim. The Quit Claim was the easiest to transfer title from the developer to the HOA. Absolutely nothing illegal or dark magic about it whatsoever.
To be clear - there never was a quit claim made from WALTON CO to Vizcaya, you see this with your own eyes in the chain of title --- there's a Warranty Deed from Walton Co to Dune Allen in 1991, that transferred the title from Walton Co to Dune Allen, then in 1996 a transfer of title using a Quit Claim from Dune Allen to Vizcaya --- you plainly can see that right?
If you can't see that and think there was some dark magic performed --- then let's start pulling all the subdivisions in Walton county and you will be amazed that you see exactly the same chain of title - ending with a quit claim deed to an HOA.
So where and why is the STORY being made up that Vizcaya quit claimed the deed from Walton county? They didn't - and you know that.
Shannon
Checking your forum account
Please wait while we verify your forum account.