What's up with all the Chain Stores on 30A?

Where is a Tropical smoothie heading??? I just think it it too hard for Mom and Pops to make it out here. The rents are too high. Chains seem to draw more people in... Kent LTD had a coffee shop in it and the coffee was way better then starbucks(They closed shortly after Starbucks opened). People seem to go to the frachised names. I am not sure if it is a developer issue other then the prices are just too high for local folks. I would love to try open my shop back up somewhere but refuse to pay these rental rates. The big guys will. They draw more people. This slow down in the market is going to be good for local commercial growth. Not everyone will be an agent and "people" can get creative again as landlords will be forced to lower rates. Drive down 30A and look at all the empty buildings. Why? Too high!

Starbucks is dominating 30A! Do we need more? We now have a Subway; soon a Tropical Smoothie. Who knows what others have already committed!

Have the property developers lost their creativity? Do our local newspapers really need to glorify these national fanchises over the independent local establishments that have been in our community for a long time?

Maybe it is time that a a message is voiced. Chime-in if you have any thoughts!

Would it have anything to do that the lease rates are too high for the local "mom & pop" businesses?? That really is unfortunate that there are so many chains being allowed to move in. The developers will eventually take what they can get.

Agree with Bobby J on the lease rates, and hope he's right that "people" can soon get creative again. Leasing agents approach Fired Up regularly about available retail space along 30-A...but all expect to see rates above $25 a square foot net-net-net. When you add in the taxes, CAM fees, etc. that the NNN portion adds, now you're over $35 a square foot. At 1000 or so square feet to run a business like ours, that's over $3500 a month just on the lease....and you haven't even paid the employess, electricity, insurance, etc yet!

While the Summer months generate strong revenue that allow agents to justify those rates in June-July-August, the slow months still have the same high expenses...

Major developments on 30A must feel they need a anchor store to attract people to their retail spaces. What happens when they all have the same anchor stores (i.e.Starbucks) in their communites and they are competing amongst themselves. I expect they all will but just ordinary! I thought 30A is supposed to be special!

Interesting persepctives below:

Andersonville Study of Retail Economics:
found that spending $100 at one of the neighborhood's independent businesses creates $68 in additional local economic activity, while spending $100 at a chain produces only $43 worth of local impact. They also found that the local businesses generated slightly more sales per square foot compared to the chains ($263 versus $243). Because chains funnel more of this revenue out of the local economy, the study concluded that, for every square foot of space occupied by a chain, the local economic impact is $105, compared to $179 for every square foot occupied by an independent business.

-State of Maine http://www.newrules.org/retail/midcoaststudy.pdf
-Civic Economics http://www.liveablecity.org/lcfullreport.pdf

Major developments on 30A must feel they need a anchor store to attract people to their retail spaces. What happens when they all have the same anchor stores (i.e.Starbucks) in their communites and they are competing amongst themselves. I expect they all will but just ordinary! I thought 30A is supposed to be special!

Interesting persepctives below:

Andersonville Study of Retail Economics:
found that spending $100 at one of the neighborhood's independent businesses creates $68 in additional local economic activity, while spending $100 at a chain produces only $43 worth of local impact. They also found that the local businesses generated slightly more sales per square foot compared to the chains ($263 versus $243). Because chains funnel more of this revenue out of the local economy, the study concluded that, for every square foot of space occupied by a chain, the local economic impact is $105, compared to $179 for every square foot occupied by an independent business.

-State of Maine http://www.newrules.org/retail/midcoaststudy.pdf
-Civic Economics http://www.liveablecity.org/lcfullreport.pdf

Good stuff. Maybe some local developers could get creative and with these facts begin to rebate locally owned business.

We need one of these: Heart Attack Grill

<Wouldn't appeal to SJ, he's converting to Vegan.>


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I saw a special on that place. They were getting sued by the Nurse association? Crazy? I could not eat there. The last meat I ate looked like that sandwich you posted. I slept for 2 days and have not touched meat since (1 year ago)!

I saw a special on that place. They were getting sued by the Nurse association? Crazy? I could not eat there. The last meat I ate looked like that sandwich you posted. I slept for 2 days and have not touched meat since (1 year ago)!

The ability to properly digest an authentic deli sandwich is a practiced "Northern" art that should never be attempted by amateurs.

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I'll admit to a soft spot to Tropical Smoothie- sandwich, chips, and drink for less than $7 at the one down the way. Do takeout, and you've got an affordable picnic at the beach, and if you eat in, they've got free wi-fi. And a half the sugar Peaches and Silk after a hot day at the beach would taste sublime.

A while back, I was trying to track down chain restaurant headquarters for a project at work, and, oddly enough, the Tropcial Smoothie corporate contact address I found is located in the office space above Destin Commons. So they're sort of local, I guess.

Major developments on 30A must feel they need a anchor store to attract people to their retail spaces. What happens when they all have the same anchor stores (i.e.Starbucks) in their communites and they are competing amongst themselves. I expect they all will but just ordinary! I thought 30A is supposed to be special!

Interesting persepctives below:

Andersonville Study of Retail Economics:
found that spending $100 at one of the neighborhood's independent businesses creates $68 in additional local economic activity, while spending $100 at a chain produces only $43 worth of local impact. They also found that the local businesses generated slightly more sales per square foot compared to the chains ($263 versus $243). Because chains funnel more of this revenue out of the local economy, the study concluded that, for every square foot of space occupied by a chain, the local economic impact is $105, compared to $179 for every square foot occupied by an independent business.

-State of Maine http://www.newrules.org/retail/midcoaststudy.pdf
-Civic Economics http://www.liveablecity.org/lcfullreport.pdf

Yes, good stuff, Amavida. Here's a thought and I mean it seriously. Would 30A allow food carts? Someone with a great idea, high quality, and fun and good service could probably do OK with a food cart - e.g., $7.00 for drink (maybe smoothie), chips, and a healthy hot dog (we used to get fantastic hot dogs - not healthy ones,though -- at a dive in Massachusetts, they had grilled onions and mustard on them. That's the only way you could have them and I still remember those hot dogs 30 years later...

So, would it be feasible, allowable to put a cart near some high-traffic places, public rather than private property or give a small cut to private property owners if they're not competing with that type of food?

Foods that could be appealing with a food stand on wheels would be drinks, hot dogs, pretzels, bagels, pita sandwiches, wrap sandwiches, how about mideastern wrap sandwiches (hummus, grilled chicken, whatever you call that green salad made with lots of parsley all with a nice sauce -- we get those locally and they are amazing - to drool for), chips, good coffee, ice cream bars and sandwiches or freezies - people could get their food and eat at the beach. The goal could be to enable a family of 4 to get a really good-tasting lunch for about $20. The owner could be open for lunch and early dinner (e.g., 11:00 - 6:00) and call it a day (the owner would have to get set up and close down, though) but not a bad work day compared to owning a restaurant or diner.

I realize that doesn't solve the high-rent and other affordability/chain problems on 30A, but could a clever entrepreneur do that? Won't be me because when I get to spend more time on 30A it will be to be a beach bum, but is it feasible?

I'll admit to a soft spot to Tropical Smoothie- sandwich, chips, and drink for less than $7 at the one down the way. Do takeout, and you've got an affordable picnic at the beach, and if you eat in, they've got free wi-fi. And a half the sugar Peaches and Silk after a hot day at the beach would taste sublime.

A while back, I was trying to track down chain restaurant headquarters for a project at work, and, oddly enough, the Tropcial Smoothie corporate contact address I found is located in the office space above Destin Commons. So they're sort of local, I guess.

I love that place. Nothing beats a smoothie by "For the Health of it" but I love the veggie/veggie at Tropical Smoothie. I am torn on this whole commercial thing on 30A. We need more options. If locals can not do it then maybe the chains will have to. It looks like that is what is happening anyway (Starbucks, Subway,Chops).

Yes, good stuff, Amavida. Here's a thought and I mean it seriously. Would 30A allow food carts? Someone with a great idea, high quality, and fun and good service could probably do OK with a food cart - e.g., $7.00 for drink (maybe smoothie), chips, and a healthy hot dog (we used to get fantastic hot dogs - not healthy ones,though -- at a dive in Massachusetts, they had grilled onions and mustard on them. That's the only way you could have them and I still remember those hot dogs 30 years later...

So, would it be feasible, allowable to put a cart near some high-traffic places, public rather than private property or give a small cut to private property owners if they're not competing with that type of food?

Foods that could be appealing with a food stand on wheels would be drinks, hot dogs, pretzels, bagels, pita sandwiches, wrap sandwiches, how about mideastern wrap sandwiches (hummus, grilled chicken, whatever you call that green salad made with lots of parsley all with a nice sauce -- we get those locally and they are amazing - to drool for), chips, good coffee, ice cream bars and sandwiches or freezies - people could get their food and eat at the beach. The goal could be to enable a family of 4 to get a really good-tasting lunch for about $20. The owner could be open for lunch and early dinner (e.g., 11:00 - 6:00) and call it a day (the owner would have to get set up and close down, though) but not a bad work day compared to owning a restaurant or diner.

I realize that doesn't solve the high-rent and other affordability/chain problems on 30A, but could a clever entrepreneur do that? Won't be me because when I get to spend more time on 30A it will be to be a beach bum, but is it feasible?

Good idea, and one that I have already looked into. There are some strong requirements associated with the "Roadside Vending License" in Walton County, such as lease, parking, commercial property, etc, that almost make the good idea become a headache really quickly.

I'm sure trying to do something like set up a great food stand would have a lot of hurdles. But, once they are crossed, it could be a good income, provide a great service, and be consistent with what 30A is about -- something along the lines of the creativity of Paradise Taxi (something people want/need that can be done in a creative, funn way). It could be called "SoWallies" with signature pretzels or sandwiches or whatever called "The Miss Kitty", or "The Grayt One". It would be soooo SoWal....

I wonder if someone could find a business that doesn't sell food that's on 30A so it wouldn't be in competition with that place, and then "rent" at a low rent (or some % of earnings) from that person. I don't know if there are any places that like left. But, the businesses would complement each other and people coming for food might want what the store had and people who go to that business may want a bite to eat.

My husband and dad would love to do it in the shed ( not a food cart, but same principle) on our property at the corner of Hotz and Garfield. I guess it used to be the World's Smallest Art Gallery. They want to do Hot Dogs, Chips and Pop! Is this a crazy idea?

I know that we would frequent a hot dog place in Grayton. When you spend the day on the beach, it would be grayt to send the kids off to get a hot dog within easy walking distance instead of planning ahead and bringing food.

Last year, for about 3 months or so, there was a food stand (it was on a trailer and looked like a mini, mini mobile home) in the parking lot of Capos after Capos closed down. Lots of beach goers at Ed Walline would grap lunch there. I think they had some type of ethnic sandwich... maybe cuban or greek?

My husband and dad would love to do it in the shed ( not a food cart, but same principle) on our property at the corner of Hotz and Garfield. I guess it used to be the World's Smallest Art Gallery. They want to do Hot Dogs, Chips and Pop! Is this a crazy idea?

Great ideal! Anything you can do with a low overhead will work here. You can also close it up in the off season! The problem in this area is overhead and off season. Solve that and you got a homerun!

It looks like what we need is a chamption/organization in the 30A community that can bring together a vision and give direction of what the 30A communty should be/could be. Contrary to popular beliefs, the decline of independent businesses is not inevitable or the result of free market forces. In the case of 30A, public policy or the lack of public policy has played a major role, and developers are opting for short term profits. In short, overpriced retail space does not build healhy communities.
Imagine if we are adopted land use rules that deter chain stores and actively encourage local ownership. Imagine if developments like Rosemary, Seaside, Watercolor, Alys Beach, Redfish, and so on actually collaborated and shaped the vision for 30A. Imagine if looking at 30A ten years form now as a community with our own local character and identity; something that sets us apart from all of the other ordinary resort communites. Imagine 30A enriched by local business owners that are committed to the civic and cultural life and the well-being of the community.

My husband and dad would love to do it in the shed ( not a food cart, but same principle) on our property at the corner of Hotz and Garfield. I guess it used to be the World's Smallest Art Gallery. They want to do Hot Dogs, Chips and Pop! Is this a crazy idea?

NO!!! We had always thought that it would be nice to have someplace to grab a lunch- instead of packing everyone back to the house to eat or mommy spending time packing a lunch every morning!! We used to grab stuff at the old Grayton Market when it was in the Zoo Gallery building.

Tell your husband and Dad- YES YES YES!!!

Paula, there used to be a guy in Rosemary Beach with a cart selling hot dogs - "Dogmandu". He may still be around, I don't know. He donated a hot dog party to the school's silent auction.

It looks like what we need is a chamption/organization in the 30A community that can bring together a vision and give direction of what the 30A communty should be/could be. Contrary to popular beliefs, the decline of independent businesses is not inevitable or the result of free market forces. In the case of 30A, public policy or the lack of public policy has played a major role, and developers are opting for short term profits. In short, overpriced retail space does not build healhy communities.
Imagine if we are adopted land use rules that deter chain stores and actively encourage local ownership. Imagine if developments like Rosemary, Seaside, Watercolor, Alys Beach, Redfish, and so on actually collaborated and shaped the vision for 30A. Imagine if looking at 30A ten years form now as a community with our own local character and identity; something that sets us apart from all of the other ordinary resort communites. Imagine 30A enriched by local business owners that are committed to the civic and cultural life and the well-being of the community.

It would be great!!! I thought that was the goal of the 30A business association? Are they still around?
Imagine not beating your head against the wall when you try to make positive changes. It would be awesome if every business became active in a positive direction. In Tallahassee the other day, I noticed this big Locally owned and Locally operated marketing campaign with alot of the local business groups. I will look into what that was about next time over.

What's up with all the Chain Stores on 30A?

Starbucks is dominating 30A! Do we need more? We now have a Subway; soon a Tropical Smoothie. Who knows what others have already committed!

Have the property developers lost their creativity? Do our local newspapers really need to glorify these national fanchises over the independent local establishments that have been in our community for a long time?

Maybe it is time that a a message is voiced. Chime-in if you have any thoughts!

DonQ: I think its called growing into a real town. we're big enough now to attract certain chains. I can remember when you couldn't find a latte' around here, and certainly not mexican or chinese or thai food. Its nice to have some choices these days. Publix is a chain and I thank God for all of them in or near sowal!

I've heard about the subway but never even laid eyes on it. but I have to admit, I like that I can go get a subway tuna on wheat with cheese, lettuce and tomato... love 'em! I'm just never down that way during lunch time.. I need to make an effort though. Surely this "chain" is owned by someone locally, or is it?

But, I get your point and would love to see an effort by our community to maintain its character and keep as many locally owned businesses around as we can. Can you imagine Sundog Books closing so that Barnes & Noble can move into Seaside? We would just die!!! This is only one example of many local businesses we need to support (though we do spend quite a bit more for a book). "Progress" happens though...

Supermom... Yes, yes, yes... That little shed would be a PERFECT stand and location. Low overhead, after the initial set up. Would have to find out what permits, changes to the shed, etc., you would need to have. If you can get the permits/whatever, I don't think there's a better location anywhere. I think it could become a classic -- and it should be artsy...

Tootsie: I like the name "Dogmandu" though I never saw the place. I REALLY like your avatar. What a cutie.

Inside every Starbucks..................
There's another Starbucks!

I haven't seen Dogmandu lately -- He wasn't anywhere to be seen on our last trip or two. I hope he's still around.

I, too, think the cart idea is a great one! I keep trying to get someone to open a margarita cart! Personally I think that's what the area really needs. But I guess feeding the family affordable isn't a bad idea either.

I haven't seen Dogmandu lately -- He wasn't anywhere to be seen on our last trip or two. I hope he's still around.

I, too, think the cart idea is a great one! I keep trying to get someone to open a margarita cart! Personally I think that's what the area really needs. But I guess feeding the family affordable isn't a bad idea either.

now you're onto something... like your thinking tis!